Steam is already a giant DRM system - I really don't understand why people use it.
The main issue is that each game is locked to your steam account for life. If you don't like it (no returns) or have finished with the game you can't give it to a friend or sell it. That's forbidden.
Bought a game with the expectation that all you family could play it? That's forbidden too. According to their terms you need to buy another copy of a game for each player, even if they play in the same house on the same pc.
The games are also all vastly overpriced (i.e 50 to 100% more) than buying a boxed copy.
What really scares me is that some store bought games are now using steam exclusively as their DRM so the same restrictions apply and you can't avoid them if you want the game.
If Microsoft locked each xbox game bought to your live account so it wouldn't work on any other account, even on the same console, there would be an outcry - that's basically what valve does with steam.
@bonaparte: Welcome to PC gaming? Steam is a much lesser evil as compared to other forms of DRM, and really more and more PC games nowadays have some kind of online activation to prevent piracy/reselling. So Steam is hardly alone in that department. Once we reach a point where basically every game has to be registered online in some way, it's easier to have it all with one service that's hopefully convenient.
It's -not- a perfect solution, but it seems to be the best digital game service going right now.
I don't get this CEG stuff. As I understand it currently...
Games only open through Steam. Games will only open if you have a valid Steam Acct and Steam recognises that you own the title that you are trying to play. Wherever the exe comes from.
With CEG.
Games only open through Steam. Games will only open if you have a valid Steam Acct and Steam recognises that you own the title that you are trying to play and only if you are using your own exe?
Is that right? Does that mean that if I want to take a game round to a friends house to Demo it or play it or what have you I will have to have my Steam login details and my exe?
If not I don't see how this improves Steams current DRM at all.
Does no one remember Gabe N's DICE Keynote address?
"- He says some great sutff about combating piracy. Really seems to hit the nail on the head when it comes to the PC market. He says that people aren't pirating because they're cheapskates, they're pirating because it's a better service. No regional delays, no DRM, instant downloading, that kind of thing.
Which Steam is aiming to match. They're not trying to stamp out piracy, they're trying to catch up."
This is just another step on that path, trying to get developers to stop using limiting DRM and instead use a new method that is potentially just as secure if not more.
I'd like to agree with you, or rather Gabe, but I've always thought that most pirates were guys who just didn't want to shell out $50 for a game, no matter how good it is or who makes it. The few guys I know who pirate games do it for that exact reason; they just don't want to pay, and they get a thrill from "stealing".
On topic: this is just DRM in disguise and with a new name. It may be better DRM, but it's STILL DRM.
Oh, absolutely - but they don't need to make piracy impossible (nor could they ever achieve this). They only need to make it sufficiently difficult that it's a much easier proposition to just buy the game.
@BritBloke916: I think they're going for an opposite approach, trying to make it easier to buy games on steam than to pirate them on torrent sites. DRM is closer to a (failing) example of trying to make piracy more difficult.
@supo: I think you're probably right - rather like how 70c iTunes downloads became hugely successful even though MP3's were already being traded pretty openly across the web.
Apparently, the new technology that "makes DRM obsolete" is based on the idea that a legitimate purchaser of the game will have a copy of the game's instruction manual. On startup, the player is prompted with an entry request such as this:
@StarbladeMKIII: Hate to break it to you, kid, but that's actually how copy protection used to work back in the late eighties / early nineties :) Of course, back then, PDF's and the world wide web hadn't been invented yet. Piracy involved lots of photocopying!
Nothing is ever going to "stop" piracy other than human decency to realize that it's wrong. And we know how far that's going to go don't we?
Anyway, I've become pretty discouraged in a lot of recent PC releases, as games that have Steam activation tied to your account can't be re-sold on Ebay/Craigslist, so I'm stuck with them for life. We're closing in on video game purchases essentially being permanent $50/60 lifetime "rentals" which really are never yours to do what you want with. Can't let a friend have it when you're done, can't re-sell it online, etc. I can see my video game purchases cutting down a great deal as things continue to go this way. And no, I won't pirate the games. I'll just stop playing as much and find other things to do.
@Matt0505: I don't mind the system, but the games I buy on steam are mainly $10 or less. I wait for the sales (like Assassin's Creed that was on sale for 9.99) and get some good deals. But the big ones like HL2, Portal, L4D, I buy those at retail/e-tail outlets.
So, I'm a bit confused, and part of it might be that I'm not a PC gamer and hence don't use Steam. How does creating a unique copy of a game via CEG prevent piracy? Couldn't it still be copied, and if not, how would you move it to a new computer?
Hmmm... it seems like OnLive is putting the heat on Steam (no pun intended). I mean, why would you ever need to have DRM if you could just 'stream' a game instead on installing it.
@Mr_Raccoon: Assuming the latency is tolerable, you still have image degredation from compression, either low resolution or scaling (neither of which is good), reliance on a stable and fast internet connection with high bandwidth limits, paying constant fees to be able to keep playing a game (from what the guy said, sounds like players don't own the game) as well as an access fee... doesn't sound like fun. Not to mention, how will mods work? I can go and modify the game files on my own but I wouldn't be able to do that with OnLive.
"On any compatible PC" humor me here...how does this stop piracy? Does this mean that the game is tailored to your steam account, because I thought that was already the case.
@FLYBOY611: My understanding is that two things become true with this:
1. They can track back any pirated copy to the original owner, and thus get some accountability (this puts more burden on people having adequate security on their own machines)
2. Possibly the matchmaking or other centralized services can disallow specific "customers" and thus shut out a pirated copy directly.
I don't get it...how is that different than the current Steam? You can download the game to any computer, and as long as you log in with your SteamID, you can play right?
@ATimson: So they think watermarking is going to prevent cracking? There is either more behind this or its going to be useless in a short period of time. But I am all for getting rid of punishing people who legitimately purchase their games.
@AssassinXaero: Agreed! Now just give me the 64bit support that most retail versions of Steam games have and I'll be very happy with the service. I really regret buying Crysis through Steam knowing that I could have spent the same amount to get it at Best Buy and had the 64bit support. My 8gb of RAM is sad. :(
@Inanition: I'm not suggesting you do this (NAUGHTY YOU, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS), but most Steam games (DON'T YOU DARE EVEN THINK ABOUT WHAT I'M SAYING) have the DRM embedded in their EXE, like normal releases (YOU SHOULDN'T BE READING OR THINKING ABOUT THIS STUFF), which means if you were to somehow use a x64 exe (WHICH YOU COULDN'T LEGALLY AQQUIRE AND THUS SHOULDN'T EVEN CONSIDER DOING) you could then run the game using that exe (WHICH YOU DON'T HAVE AND WON'T HAVE), and it should play fine, granted Steam won't say you're In-Game.
@eddienoteddy: Screw Steam and all "digital distribution." I want to own the games I purchase. It's depressing to see most of you guys getting a boner over annoying services like this.
I put up with it with XBox Live Arcade stuff, but I'll be damned if I put up with it on the PC.
03/24/09
The main issue is that each game is locked to your steam account for life. If you don't like it (no returns) or have finished with the game you can't give it to a friend or sell it. That's forbidden.
Bought a game with the expectation that all you family could play it? That's forbidden too. According to their terms you need to buy another copy of a game for each player, even if they play in the same house on the same pc.
The games are also all vastly overpriced (i.e 50 to 100% more) than buying a boxed copy.
What really scares me is that some store bought games are now using steam exclusively as their DRM so the same restrictions apply and you can't avoid them if you want the game.
If Microsoft locked each xbox game bought to your live account so it wouldn't work on any other account, even on the same console, there would be an outcry - that's basically what valve does with steam.
03/24/09
It's -not- a perfect solution, but it seems to be the best digital game service going right now.
03/24/09
03/24/09
Games only open through Steam. Games will only open if you have a valid Steam Acct and Steam recognises that you own the title that you are trying to play. Wherever the exe comes from.
With CEG.
Games only open through Steam. Games will only open if you have a valid Steam Acct and Steam recognises that you own the title that you are trying to play and only if you are using your own exe?
Is that right? Does that mean that if I want to take a game round to a friends house to Demo it or play it or what have you I will have to have my Steam login details and my exe?
If not I don't see how this improves Steams current DRM at all.
03/24/09
"- He says some great sutff about combating piracy. Really seems to hit the nail on the head when it comes to the PC market. He says that people aren't pirating because they're cheapskates, they're pirating because it's a better service. No regional delays, no DRM, instant downloading, that kind of thing.
Which Steam is aiming to match. They're not trying to stamp out piracy, they're trying to catch up."
[kotaku.com]
This is just another step on that path, trying to get developers to stop using limiting DRM and instead use a new method that is potentially just as secure if not more.
03/24/09
I'd like to agree with you, or rather Gabe, but I've always thought that most pirates were guys who just didn't want to shell out $50 for a game, no matter how good it is or who makes it. The few guys I know who pirate games do it for that exact reason; they just don't want to pay, and they get a thrill from "stealing".
On topic: this is just DRM in disguise and with a new name. It may be better DRM, but it's STILL DRM.
03/24/09
Huh. I never thought anyone could get a thrill from opening a Bittorrent client. Seems I was wrong.
03/24/09
However, kudos to Valve for trying something new.
03/24/09
Oh, absolutely - but they don't need to make piracy impossible (nor could they ever achieve this). They only need to make it sufficiently difficult that it's a much easier proposition to just buy the game.
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
Page 7 Line 8 Word 3
Piracy will soon be a thing of the past!
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
Wrong wrong wrong,the copy protection of the future is a 3-part rotable-tablet with different symbols on it which are asked when installing the game.
The feature is secure fellow gamers!
03/24/09
03/24/09
Hehe :) I even remember a game that had red celophane that you had to put on top of a garbish cardboard to read your code...
03/24/09
03/24/09
Anyway, I've become pretty discouraged in a lot of recent PC releases, as games that have Steam activation tied to your account can't be re-sold on Ebay/Craigslist, so I'm stuck with them for life. We're closing in on video game purchases essentially being permanent $50/60 lifetime "rentals" which really are never yours to do what you want with. Can't let a friend have it when you're done, can't re-sell it online, etc. I can see my video game purchases cutting down a great deal as things continue to go this way. And no, I won't pirate the games. I'll just stop playing as much and find other things to do.
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
Someone wanna clear this up for me?
oh and Go Steam!
03/24/09
1. They can track back any pirated copy to the original owner, and thus get some accountability (this puts more burden on people having adequate security on their own machines)
2. Possibly the matchmaking or other centralized services can disallow specific "customers" and thus shut out a pirated copy directly.
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
But will OnLive make this obsolete?
I'm truly bothered by this OnLive stuff... I like gaming on the PC the way I am now....
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
03/25/09
03/25/09
03/24/09
03/24/09
Still, it's come so far since then. I have nothing but love for Steam as it is today, more power to 'em.
03/24/09
03/24/09
I put up with it with XBox Live Arcade stuff, but I'll be damned if I put up with it on the PC.
03/24/09
But PC's switch to DD is progressing faster than any of the consoles'.