I will pay Bioware 1 Billion Internet dollars if they include the line: "What's wrong with you? Did a Jawa get sand in your vagina?" in a quest that takes place on that planet.
@Paradox me:
Obi Wan:"Well that smuggler wouldn't accept 1,500 credits now and more later"
Luke "So how are we going to rescue the princess?"
Obi Wan"Looks like we'll have to walk to Alderaan"
I'm interested in reading the comic and getting into the EU a bit, but the title "Threat of Peace" sounds really stupid to me. Like, I can very easily see that being the title of a Steven Segal movie.
@mr_godot: As a word of advice, it's sort of like reading comic books. Be prepared for the occasional retarded retcon, since you have so many writers working with the same characters and setting, and they all have different visions, but at the end of the day it has to pretty much all cohere and be canon.
I love the current crop of Star Wars comics but I can't stand the art in Threat of Peace... TOO MANY LINES ON THEIR FACES.
"In "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way," "Drawing Comics in the Style of Detective Comics Comics," "Aping Shit the Valiant Way," and every other drawing tutorial I've been a part of, it clearly says that every line you draw on a person's face adds to their age. When you're drawing children or sexy young women you give them clean surfaces to suggest youth and a tightness of veins, and when you draw Clint Eastwood in an eyepatch hanging out with Gen 13 you draw all over his face to let people know he's old. Depending on who you talk to, every line can equal a year added onto the life of your character."
Sweet! More games in the Star Wars universe that I couldn't give two rats asses about.
I know Luke had a short time in the limelight, and until the "prequels" came about the only Star Wars games we had were set during the New Republic (or its founding), but is that really so bad?
I'd trade every single Star Wars game ever made (including Dark Forces) if we could just return to some good ol' X-Wing vs TIE Fighter.
I'm sick of the sleek designs of the Old Republic that somehow turned into a bunch of sheet metal strapped together. I'm sick of Jedi/Sith "morality," where everything is so sickenly black and white that even a photocopier would add color just to make it interesting.
Give me back when people didn't have to rely on an all powerful force controlling everything, and when spaceships were clunky pieces of other models. And especially before Yoda could do anything but talk sentences wrongly.
@denki: you do know this is a post about comics and books, not games, right? i mean you read the whole article before posting, obviously, so why wouldn't you...
I adore Star War's EU - to the point i've become addicted to stopping into the University's on-campus waterstones and picking up a book... or three! - so these will be a welcome addition to my personal library.
Currently SW book-wise, I've finished Outcast, the first of the 'Fate of the Jedi' series, i've just plowed through Death Star (loved the concept!) and Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, and am currently reading Darth Bane: Rule of Two. And of course, for Christmas I eagerly anticipate Deathtroopers, Imperial Commando and the other two Fate of the Jedi books!
Yeah, you might say that I like Star Wars - but you can never like it too much =D
@Ursus-Veritas: How do the star wars book work...do they follow a specific character or is it new each time? I'm thinking about picking up one related to Star Wars The Old Republic as a sort of self hype machine, but there's so many out there. What would you recommend?
@ttocs: It depends on where you want to start. Following the big 3 (Han, Luke, Leia) I'd start with The Truce at Bakura. If you are looking for old republic days I'm not too familiar with but [starwars.wikia.com] is a great resource for finding books in order.
*edit* Looking into it there doesn't seem to be too many books dealing with the old republic. I could be wrong but I think there are some comic series though.
@ttocs: Exactly what Kimarimonku has said, actually! Although I'll offer some personal advice too.
It depends on what movies you like, I think. If you're a prequels fan, the Republic Commando series is a must, and novels like Shatterpoint and the Jedi Healer Trilogy, and then novels set after ROTS like The Force Unleashed and Death Star are a nice read too. As a prequels fan I find the KOTOR-era set books a nice read as well, so stuff like the Darth Bane books are pretty fun reads too.
If the Original Trilogy are more of your cup of Tea, you can start as early as The Truce at Bakura, the first novel set pretty much directly after ROTJ, or go later and delve into things like the Dark Nest trilogy, or even Fate of the Jedi - although I must say if you want to get into Fate, the Legacy of the Force series is a must read before hand.
If you're a star wars fan, you can just dive in the deep end wherever you want - just swim around what the EU has to offer and I can guarantee you'll find some books that you love!
@Ursus-Veritas: I'd recommend the ROTS novelization. It's fantastic, and much, much better than the original movie. I'd also recommend the Thrawn trilogy, as its really the jumping off point for all the other SW novels. You could fairly easily move from Thrawn to the longer "series" books (starting with New Jedi Order, then Dark Nest, then Legacy of the Force, then Fate of the Jedi).
@Ursus-Veritas: Thanks Ursus, that was a very good description. I'm more of an original trilogy guy who also happens to love the KoTOR stuff. I may go and pick up a novel during my week off from work for X-Mas and check it out. Thanks again...very informative post!
Honestly, Bioware just killed any hype I had for the game. Jedi are being split over two classes?
More than anything, though, the fact that we have a dedicated "Healer" class is what killed it. I was hoping The Old Republic would be different, but... meh, color me disappointed :*(
@DaemonGildas: What's wrong with that? In KOTOR they were split into 3, and in KOTOR 2 they had something like 9, though 6 were specializations of the initial 3.
Since then, the three primary classes of Jedi, which each represent very generic descriptions of differing extremes in Jedi philosophy and study, have been preserved in canonical lore: Guardian, the warrior/blademaster, specializes in saber use; Consular, the diplomat, specializes in the Force; and Sentinel, the Jedi who chooses a careful balance between the Force, the Saber, and other things beyond the religious focus of a typical Jedi, such as science and mechanics.
Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, for instance, are classified as Jedi Sentinels. Their talent lies in their blade and combat mastery, though as all Jedi, they know how to manipulate the force. Qui-Gon Jinn and Yoda were Consulars; open-minded, diplomatic, and exceptionally skilled and knowledgeable in the ways of the Force beyond just its use, but still proficient in saber-wielding.
They're a mainstay of the franchise, and though they initially were implemented in order to bring variety to playing a Jedi in KOTOR, they of course needed a lore reason to exist, because we know how BioWare is with their stories. And in the end, they're great. They serve to give even greater depth and individuality to the concept of a Jedi.
@The Anti-Fanboy: The thing is, this is an MMO. And the one Golden Rule of all MMO's is this; if you *can* heal, then you *will* heal.
I would've prefer they just have "Jedi Knight" and "Sith Warrior", and simply tie their "healing" abilities into their damage-dealing abilities, too. That way, even while playing the part of "Healer", you still get to have fun.
Of course, they would still have Med-kits to rely on. But I just don't like the thought of having "healing classes", especially not for a Jedi. Not that Jedi wouldn't have *some* supportive abilities, as that's definitely part of the Jedi lore. But it just seems like a poor choice to make Jedi that will do nothing *but* heal players.
@DaemonGildas: I thought Consulars were also spellcasting damage-dealers. What makes you think a Consular won't join a group as a damage-dealer, especially if there's another Consular?
Secondly, how exactly would you tie healing into damage-dealing? Will the damage you deal to a target draw Force energies from that target and infuse them into an ally? That'd be difficult smoothly, considering you'd not only have to select an enemy but an ally as well. Besides, that sounds like more of a Dark Side power to me, if anything.
You're also making that statement under the assumption that healing ISN'T fun as-is. I don't see what makes healing any different than doing damage, honestly. You're just casting your abilities at allies instead of enemies, and you're making their HP go up instead of down. And I imagine at LEAST 1/4th of MMO gamers agree with me.
Healin's a good job, mate. It's challenging work, lotta doors... I guarantee you'll not go 'ungry. 'Cause at the end of the day, long as there's two people on the server, someone is gonna want someone healin'.
@DaemonGildas: While you may not like the way most healers play in MMO's, there are just as many who love it. I for one prefer playing the pure healing/support classes in MMOs. I've never felt that "all I do is heal players." A good MMO gives a healer support abilities like buffs/debuffs and the like to go with their healing. That alone keeps me so busy that I never find myself bored. I like to help other people whether it's Tanking or Supporting.
Warhammer does have classes that heal by doing dmg to build up the pool of energy through which they heal by. It's a neat idea, but often times I'd rather just sit back out of harms way to do my job. Perhaps they may add at least two paths where one is dmg-heal and the other is just pure heal/support.
I'm not saying that healing isn't "fun" or is "broken". It's just kinda of disappointing that, instead of playing a full "Jedi", in all it's glory, it's going to be split between two classes, one of which is probably going to wind up as a Healer class.
I would rather preferred, if they *have* to have a Healer class, that they have tied it to some other, new class. Perhaps even "Medic"/"Stimpak Dealer". But the Jedi's versatility is kind of what made them cooler than Sith to begin with.
@DaemonGildas: Protip: Scoundrels can double as medics, thus can cover a healing role. Consulars won't always be forced to heal, especially if there's a Scoundrel willing to heal instead.
I'm really thinking that BioWare is planning to implement the same or a similar talent system as is used in WoW. So you can choose to heal, or you can choose to DPS, or tank, or whatever depending on your spec.
And there really isn't such thing as a "full Jedi in all its glory", so when you say that, it makes absolutely no sense to me, and is actually confusing. The concept of just there being one type of Jedi in itself is completely alien to me; it's not possible. All Jedi specialize in different fields, which is why the Jedi Order decided there was a need to classify Force practitioners into categories in the first place. This is just following with those classifications. Even very powerful Jedi had classifications. Yoda and Sidious were both Consulars.
In the end, Jedi Consulars are just ranged spellcasters, while Jedi Knights are just melee sword wielders. I really don't see any issue with it at all. How else would BioWare implement ranged spellcasting into the game?
@The Anti-Fanboy: When I think of "Jedi", I imagine like you said, having something somewhat similar to the talents in WoW. So you would basically just start off a "Jedi Padawan" (no specialization), but could delve into either swordplay, more ranged powers, or a bit more supportive role. But my thinking is that, even through all this diversity, it would still be the same core class.
Of course, doing this will allow them to have deeper focus on different types of combat, so it's not entirely bad. But I just hate games where you have to decide what specific end-game role you want to play, before you even get past the Character Creation screen.
Like I said, it makes sense from a game-mechanic point of view, but as a Player, I just don't like the thought of only have the option of playing one aspect or another, of what I believe should only be one (albeit extremely diverse) class.
@DaemonGildas: It doesn't just make sense from a game-mechanic point of view, it makes sense from a story point of view too. A Guardian doesn't just one day get up out of bed, say, "Hm, today I feel like healing", and then become a Consular. It conflicts with his personal philosophy of what a Jedi is, or what being a Jedi makes him, because he's spent years and years learning how to master the art of lightsaber combat, so all of a sudden he's gonna flip the switch and become a Jedi Consular? He's not only changing the way he manipulates the Force and the tools of the Jedi, which he's been studying ever since he was inducted into the Jedi Order, he's changing his personality, his personal world-view, and his understanding of the Force. A Consular respeccing from a healing role to a spellcasting DPS role is understandable, since it's just a shift in focus and concentration within the same realm of study, but a Consular respeccing from a Consular to a Guardian is beyond understanding, lorewise.
It's like a lawyer suddenly waking up from bed one day and saying, "I'm gonna be a doctor today". Impossible without years and years of study. On the other hand, a doctor could say, "Adult physician or pediatrician?" and it would require some extra study in order to learn a specialization outside of your original focus, but they both share the same basis in human medicine, and thus it's not as difficult to transition from one to another. Probably still difficult, but not AS difficult.
Sure, I suppose it'd be useful from a player standpoint, but then that'd make the one singular Jedi class all-powerful, since it could fulfill a multitude of roles. And then would that really be fair to the other non-Jedi classes? With that mentality, you'd probably just then have two classes: Jedi and non-Jedi. Jedi can specialize as Guardians, Sentinels or Consulars; and non-Jedi can specialize as Scoundrels, Troopers or Bounty Hunters. And not to mention, they can flip their focus of study at the flick of a switch. Two classes per faction, each with three interchangeable specializations. That's probably not what BioWare wants, and it's probably not best for the players either.
Beyond that, Most MMO's place you into an end-game role right from the start anyways. Jedi Warrior vs Jedi Consular to me is like Death Knight vs Priest, really. You pick one class, and sure, maybe you can fill a variety of roles with it, but you're still restricted to just those roles, and you're still restricted to that particular form of combat mechanics: melee augmented by spells, or pure ranged spellcasting. Even in games like Aion, where your specialization can't be changed and makes your character completely different from another specialization of the same class, you're still limiting your potential to the end-game roles available to those specializations.
@The Anti-Fanboy: I think you sort of hit the nail on the head with the Doctor comment, though. Jedi Guardians and Consulars have major differences, but they're both Jedi, and share the same core beliefs. I do agree, it shouldn't simply be a choice of "Well, this group needs a healer, BAM, I'm a healer". But a Jedi is a Jedi, in my book, and the differences between a Guardian or Consular should've been differences in specialization, rather than Class. Think of it like a Shaman from WoW. Not "All-powerful", but extremely versatile.
Of couse, that's just my point of view, but it's still slightly disappointing.
@DaemonGildas: Unfortunately, and I mean no disrespect, your book conflicts with canonical lore, and in the end, the Jedi are too complicated and diverse for them all to be simply categorized as "Jedi" without confusion, aside from outsiders.
This is one of the conundrums of being a Force user, too. In the Star Wars world, non Force-adept persons usually don't have a complete understanding of either the Jedi or the Sith. Thus, as you do, they view all Jedi as Jedi, regardless of all of the internal factors that makes things much more complicated than that. Hell, most civilians think the Jedi and the Sith are just two conflicting sects of the same religious church.
In the end, that's all the Jedi are. Making them seem as if they were all-powerful would be foolhardy. Certainly, they're more powerful than your average denizen of the galaxy, but smugglers, scoundrels, bounty hunters, they can hold their own against a Jedi. The Jedi are not invincible, because they are not as all-powerful as you make them out to be. They simply have a lot of authority, much like how the Roman Catholic Church has a lot of authority over many countries in our world.
And while we're on that metaphor, the Roman Catholic Church needs its soldiers as well as its priests, just as the Jedi Order needs its Guardians as well as its Consulars. You cannot cross them over, except in the rarest and most profound circumstances.
And again with the "Jedi vs non-Jedi" issue, since it doesn't exactly seem like you really caught that part...
Hopefully rolling out all the classes bumps the race reveals way up. I'll be sad if we're all humies. Especially since that puts a damper on my Sith Inquisitor Ewok plans.
12/18/09
12/18/09
In all honesty I would have expected Tatooine to be the first. Or perhaps Coruscant (sooooooooo pretty!).
12/18/09
12/18/09
I did notice Coruscant, thanks. That's so awesome that Bioware's implementing Coruscant ...
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
It'd be pretty silly if in a Star Wars game you had to walk everywhere.
12/18/09
Obi Wan:"Well that smuggler wouldn't accept 1,500 credits now and more later"
Luke "So how are we going to rescue the princess?"
Obi Wan"Looks like we'll have to walk to Alderaan"
12/18/09
12/04/09
12/04/09
12/04/09
12/04/09
12/04/09
"In "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way," "Drawing Comics in the Style of Detective Comics Comics," "Aping Shit the Valiant Way," and every other drawing tutorial I've been a part of, it clearly says that every line you draw on a person's face adds to their age. When you're drawing children or sexy young women you give them clean surfaces to suggest youth and a tightness of veins, and when you draw Clint Eastwood in an eyepatch hanging out with Gen 13 you draw all over his face to let people know he's old. Depending on who you talk to, every line can equal a year added onto the life of your character."
From #32 of "The 40 Worst Rob Liefeld Drawings"
[progressiveboink.com]
12/04/09
I know Luke had a short time in the limelight, and until the "prequels" came about the only Star Wars games we had were set during the New Republic (or its founding), but is that really so bad?
I'd trade every single Star Wars game ever made (including Dark Forces) if we could just return to some good ol' X-Wing vs TIE Fighter.
I'm sick of the sleek designs of the Old Republic that somehow turned into a bunch of sheet metal strapped together. I'm sick of Jedi/Sith "morality," where everything is so sickenly black and white that even a photocopier would add color just to make it interesting.
Give me back when people didn't have to rely on an all powerful force controlling everything, and when spaceships were clunky pieces of other models. And especially before Yoda could do anything but talk sentences wrongly.
12/04/09
12/04/09
Currently SW book-wise, I've finished Outcast, the first of the 'Fate of the Jedi' series, i've just plowed through Death Star (loved the concept!) and Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, and am currently reading Darth Bane: Rule of Two. And of course, for Christmas I eagerly anticipate Deathtroopers, Imperial Commando and the other two Fate of the Jedi books!
Yeah, you might say that I like Star Wars - but you can never like it too much =D
12/04/09
12/04/09
*edit* Looking into it there doesn't seem to be too many books dealing with the old republic. I could be wrong but I think there are some comic series though.
12/04/09
It depends on what movies you like, I think. If you're a prequels fan, the Republic Commando series is a must, and novels like Shatterpoint and the Jedi Healer Trilogy, and then novels set after ROTS like The Force Unleashed and Death Star are a nice read too. As a prequels fan I find the KOTOR-era set books a nice read as well, so stuff like the Darth Bane books are pretty fun reads too.
If the Original Trilogy are more of your cup of Tea, you can start as early as The Truce at Bakura, the first novel set pretty much directly after ROTJ, or go later and delve into things like the Dark Nest trilogy, or even Fate of the Jedi - although I must say if you want to get into Fate, the Legacy of the Force series is a must read before hand.
If you're a star wars fan, you can just dive in the deep end wherever you want - just swim around what the EU has to offer and I can guarantee you'll find some books that you love!
12/04/09
12/04/09
12/03/09
More than anything, though, the fact that we have a dedicated "Healer" class is what killed it. I was hoping The Old Republic would be different, but... meh, color me disappointed :*(
12/03/09
Since then, the three primary classes of Jedi, which each represent very generic descriptions of differing extremes in Jedi philosophy and study, have been preserved in canonical lore: Guardian, the warrior/blademaster, specializes in saber use; Consular, the diplomat, specializes in the Force; and Sentinel, the Jedi who chooses a careful balance between the Force, the Saber, and other things beyond the religious focus of a typical Jedi, such as science and mechanics.
Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, for instance, are classified as Jedi Sentinels. Their talent lies in their blade and combat mastery, though as all Jedi, they know how to manipulate the force. Qui-Gon Jinn and Yoda were Consulars; open-minded, diplomatic, and exceptionally skilled and knowledgeable in the ways of the Force beyond just its use, but still proficient in saber-wielding.
They're a mainstay of the franchise, and though they initially were implemented in order to bring variety to playing a Jedi in KOTOR, they of course needed a lore reason to exist, because we know how BioWare is with their stories. And in the end, they're great. They serve to give even greater depth and individuality to the concept of a Jedi.
I see no problems.
12/03/09
I would've prefer they just have "Jedi Knight" and "Sith Warrior", and simply tie their "healing" abilities into their damage-dealing abilities, too. That way, even while playing the part of "Healer", you still get to have fun.
Of course, they would still have Med-kits to rely on. But I just don't like the thought of having "healing classes", especially not for a Jedi. Not that Jedi wouldn't have *some* supportive abilities, as that's definitely part of the Jedi lore. But it just seems like a poor choice to make Jedi that will do nothing *but* heal players.
12/03/09
Secondly, how exactly would you tie healing into damage-dealing? Will the damage you deal to a target draw Force energies from that target and infuse them into an ally? That'd be difficult smoothly, considering you'd not only have to select an enemy but an ally as well. Besides, that sounds like more of a Dark Side power to me, if anything.
You're also making that statement under the assumption that healing ISN'T fun as-is. I don't see what makes healing any different than doing damage, honestly. You're just casting your abilities at allies instead of enemies, and you're making their HP go up instead of down. And I imagine at LEAST 1/4th of MMO gamers agree with me.
Healin's a good job, mate. It's challenging work, lotta doors... I guarantee you'll not go 'ungry. 'Cause at the end of the day, long as there's two people on the server, someone is gonna want someone healin'.
12/04/09
Warhammer does have classes that heal by doing dmg to build up the pool of energy through which they heal by. It's a neat idea, but often times I'd rather just sit back out of harms way to do my job. Perhaps they may add at least two paths where one is dmg-heal and the other is just pure heal/support.
12/04/09
I'm not saying that healing isn't "fun" or is "broken". It's just kinda of disappointing that, instead of playing a full "Jedi", in all it's glory, it's going to be split between two classes, one of which is probably going to wind up as a Healer class.
I would rather preferred, if they *have* to have a Healer class, that they have tied it to some other, new class. Perhaps even "Medic"/"Stimpak Dealer". But the Jedi's versatility is kind of what made them cooler than Sith to begin with.
12/04/09
I'm really thinking that BioWare is planning to implement the same or a similar talent system as is used in WoW. So you can choose to heal, or you can choose to DPS, or tank, or whatever depending on your spec.
And there really isn't such thing as a "full Jedi in all its glory", so when you say that, it makes absolutely no sense to me, and is actually confusing. The concept of just there being one type of Jedi in itself is completely alien to me; it's not possible. All Jedi specialize in different fields, which is why the Jedi Order decided there was a need to classify Force practitioners into categories in the first place. This is just following with those classifications. Even very powerful Jedi had classifications. Yoda and Sidious were both Consulars.
In the end, Jedi Consulars are just ranged spellcasters, while Jedi Knights are just melee sword wielders. I really don't see any issue with it at all. How else would BioWare implement ranged spellcasting into the game?
12/05/09
Of course, doing this will allow them to have deeper focus on different types of combat, so it's not entirely bad. But I just hate games where you have to decide what specific end-game role you want to play, before you even get past the Character Creation screen.
Like I said, it makes sense from a game-mechanic point of view, but as a Player, I just don't like the thought of only have the option of playing one aspect or another, of what I believe should only be one (albeit extremely diverse) class.
12/05/09
It's like a lawyer suddenly waking up from bed one day and saying, "I'm gonna be a doctor today". Impossible without years and years of study. On the other hand, a doctor could say, "Adult physician or pediatrician?" and it would require some extra study in order to learn a specialization outside of your original focus, but they both share the same basis in human medicine, and thus it's not as difficult to transition from one to another. Probably still difficult, but not AS difficult.
Sure, I suppose it'd be useful from a player standpoint, but then that'd make the one singular Jedi class all-powerful, since it could fulfill a multitude of roles. And then would that really be fair to the other non-Jedi classes? With that mentality, you'd probably just then have two classes: Jedi and non-Jedi. Jedi can specialize as Guardians, Sentinels or Consulars; and non-Jedi can specialize as Scoundrels, Troopers or Bounty Hunters. And not to mention, they can flip their focus of study at the flick of a switch. Two classes per faction, each with three interchangeable specializations. That's probably not what BioWare wants, and it's probably not best for the players either.
Beyond that, Most MMO's place you into an end-game role right from the start anyways. Jedi Warrior vs Jedi Consular to me is like Death Knight vs Priest, really. You pick one class, and sure, maybe you can fill a variety of roles with it, but you're still restricted to just those roles, and you're still restricted to that particular form of combat mechanics: melee augmented by spells, or pure ranged spellcasting. Even in games like Aion, where your specialization can't be changed and makes your character completely different from another specialization of the same class, you're still limiting your potential to the end-game roles available to those specializations.
12/05/09
Of couse, that's just my point of view, but it's still slightly disappointing.
12/05/09
This is one of the conundrums of being a Force user, too. In the Star Wars world, non Force-adept persons usually don't have a complete understanding of either the Jedi or the Sith. Thus, as you do, they view all Jedi as Jedi, regardless of all of the internal factors that makes things much more complicated than that. Hell, most civilians think the Jedi and the Sith are just two conflicting sects of the same religious church.
In the end, that's all the Jedi are. Making them seem as if they were all-powerful would be foolhardy. Certainly, they're more powerful than your average denizen of the galaxy, but smugglers, scoundrels, bounty hunters, they can hold their own against a Jedi. The Jedi are not invincible, because they are not as all-powerful as you make them out to be. They simply have a lot of authority, much like how the Roman Catholic Church has a lot of authority over many countries in our world.
And while we're on that metaphor, the Roman Catholic Church needs its soldiers as well as its priests, just as the Jedi Order needs its Guardians as well as its Consulars. You cannot cross them over, except in the rarest and most profound circumstances.
And again with the "Jedi vs non-Jedi" issue, since it doesn't exactly seem like you really caught that part...
12/03/09
Glasser, you sly devil you. ;)
12/03/09
12/03/09
12/03/09
12/03/09
... ugh.