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Denver, 7:05 PM
Tue Nov 10
62 posts in the last 24 hours
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07/31/09
I imagine the people who are truely concerned over this ruining their sanctuary are going to the small libraries. I think you have little to fear at the small libraries. These are most likely run by individuals who will keep them away from something like this for as long as they can.
The huge behemoth libraries already have this type of thing and people do go there to hang out. The Martin Luther King Library at San Jose State University is huge, has free wi-fi, a coffe shop, a sandwich shop, all the archives you can imagine, movies, tons of computer stations and lots of laptop area's. They may already have video games, i know they have movies. The place is not too bad, even with lots of people in it, but there are discussion area's and study area's. There are even conference/quite rooms you can reserve online and have some great peace and quiet.
07/31/09
The only unfortunate part was that I didn't get a chance to try it out since I had to work lol
07/31/09
The central location of the Houston Public Library has a gaming center on the top floor of the building-- although it's primarily for children and they'll chase you off in short order if you wander up there (which sucks, because the graphic novels are up there, too, so trying to check them out is a bit of a pain-- why is Eisner's The Spirit located ONLY in a section for kids!?)... but it's a pretty sweet-looking setup they've got. Loads of HDTVs, Guitar Hero and Rock Band layouts, full complements of consoles (Wii, 360, and PS3) as well as a bank of gaming PCs for WoW and LAN setups.
I remember when they did the reopening after they renovated the place, and seeing all the people gathering to play games together. Not my bag, but it looked like a lot of fun.
07/31/09
I do not want public libraries carrying movies.
I do not want public libraries carrying music.
I do not want public libraries carrying books.
I do not want public libraries.
I get it, people are happy that gamers are being recognized as worthy of attention. Yay.
What would be far more meaningful are private libraries open to the public, or whoever the owners and financial supporters choose, deciding that games are a desired addition. That way you can be more confident that it is a true consequence of demand, rather than a consequence of someone simply choosing what he thinks is in demand, or personally wants, knowing that he can forcibly extract the needed funds via taxes and keep the system even if it doesn't pan out.
And yeah, I know, libraries gain revenue in ways apart from taxing, late fees for instance, but even so it is still far from volitional funding, and hence far from a true reflecting of societal interest.
07/31/09
07/31/09
Beep-Beep-Boop-Bop...Does not compute...
Really, what are you talking about?
07/31/09
07/31/09
07/31/09
Haha same here. Thankfully most normal people can read thru Atlas Shrugged and see how laughably impossible it is and not be brainwashed.
According to the book CEOs are smart, industrious, honest people. And that's where her philosophy starts to fall apart like a 20-year-old American car.
07/31/09
http://kotaku.com/5164768/librarians-explain-why-video-games-at-th...#c11165377
I'm all for government being less intrusive, in terms of "leaving people the fuck alone with their lifestyles/entertainment/etc". However, while the whole idea of privatized libraries looks nice on paper, you have to realize one thing:
Libraries are supposed to be in the public interest. Public as in everyone, regardless of taste.
My local library carries Discworld novels, which I love and highly recommend. They also carry the Twilight novels, which are pieces of trash-romance mary sue shit and I consider worthless as even toilet paper.
However, the library is PUBLIC, ie, has something for everyone. I'm not going to tell them to stop offering Twilight novels, because some people like them. And since everyone pays for the library (through taxes, fines, etc), everyone can request what they're interested in and get it if they want, and those who are likeminded can also enjoy it.
Now let's take the public interest part out of the equation, and establish these privatized libraries you advocate. Let's say someone decided they LOVED Stephanie Meyer, but for whatever reason had some death wish against Terry Pratchett.
Nothing would stop them from stocking only the Twilight novels and not offering a single Discworld book. And at that point, a whole segment of the public would be disenfranchised. Because the owner of the library would have no obligation to carry anything they didn't like. And even if there were other donors, they could pull donation if the library did something they disliked. It's just a bad road to go down, even if it LOOKS good.
While different book series are really kinda trivial (I'm using it to make an easy example), that's just the tip of the iceberg. Libraries exist to provide information (among other things). I think that's probably one of the better things anyone's tax money can go to, especially since it's a public good every citizen has direct access to (how many OTHER uses of tax money can you say that for?). Additionally, librarians are more or less gatekeepers of information. By keeping said gatekeepers accountable to the public (something a private library really can't do) the information is available to all.
There are a ton more reasons why private libraries are a bad idea, but it's late and you asked.
07/31/09
07/31/09
I'm not a Randroid, just so you know. Still, I might be considered fairly radical; in my world laissez-faire is the only way to fly.
@Nekusagi:
All right, finally something worth talking about. So much to respond to, where to start?
First, your scenario includes the unarticulated assumption that everyone believes public libraries, or any libraries, are worth the money. You say they are in the public interest, "public as in everyone." What if someone’s interest is not in a library at all? Yeah, sure, everyone is taxed and "everyone" is represented in a library’s selection. Except people who don’t want a library. It is not as even and fair as you make out when you consider that many would rather buy their own books instead of being forced to provide for the access of others’ to such things. Who says the money is better spent on a library than a book that becomes private property? A politician? The majority of a country’s citizens? It does not matter; it is not their money.
Second, you say a public library can be kept more accountable to the public than a private library. Untrue. Even if you simply wanted a library that lends all of what a public library lends now, but that provides better service, then you can’t beat a privately, voluntarily funded library, even if it is not for profit. There is no way to take money from the unwilling public in a private venture; the library must provide satisfactory service, or it will not be funded. If you get to decide when a library is unsatisfactory and when to pull the plug, instead of the government, then your personal influence increases exponentially and you are in control rather than just being one of many that make up an amorphous body useful only for the funding you provide the governmental decision-makers.
Your next point is that financial supporters could pull funding for libraries with which they disagree, for whatever reason. So what? It’s their money, isn’t it? In addition, every group can exert this kind of force, given the will, so what is the problem? Some of the smaller groups will slip through the cracks, you say? Maybe. Maybe not. Do you have that little faith in charity? Surely some groups will allow books they disagree with in their libraries? Regardless, it is no one else’s right to tell them what they can do with their money and resources. I sympathize with the people whose wants may be disregarded or condemned, but there is no moral solution that involves the use of force. Persuade them, either through support or ostracization, but do not force them.
Lastly, libraries may be a vital source of information, but who better decides what information shall be housed within their walls, the government or private citizens? Choice by the citizenry is the only ethical path, and it is insulated from the potential for widespread manipulation of information by an increasingly centralized government (I’m referring to the U.S. government, but, short of civil war, this is likely to happen everywhere, every time).
07/31/09
07/31/09
07/31/09
Even better, the University of Michigan opened its Computer and Video Game Archive last year, which doesn't allow borrowing, but provides a space both for academic study of games and a place for people to meet others and relax in after intense studying. It only has a small collection now, but it's always growing. It's nice to see a place as austere as U-M pay real attention to the medium.
07/31/09
07/31/09
One of the joys about going to the library is that it is a place of solitude, a place where everything that distracts you in life can kind of be put on hold while you browse for a novel that can further remove those distractions. I fear that if gaming in the library becomes commonplace, I may have to find a new sanctuary.
Why can't libraries simply remain libraries? I mean, we have mobile Facebook, Twitter and YouTube on our Blackberries, Wi-Fi in just about every establishment in the country and advertisements dominating every nook and cranny of our outside lives. People who want to socialize are not going to do so at a library. LAN parties will still be at the biggest house, and Starbucks will remain to be a hangout for those with Macs. What this is going to do is alienate those who actually use the library without seeing an increase of new "customers".
07/31/09
07/31/09
As in "walkie-talkies"? Uhh, no not really as I was not alive when walkie-talkies came out. I don't even think my grandfather was alive when walkie-talkies came out...
07/31/09
Back in my day, we'd walk to the library uphill for 10 miles in the snow, wearing an onion on our belts - that was the fashionable thing to do in those days...
In all seriousness though... it sounds like arcades aren't dying after all... ;)
07/31/09
Great Simpson's reference!
I dunno, call me old-fashioned or whatever but I love going to the library. I live in an apartment with paper thin walls and asshole neighbors, and when I'm not there I'm working in an automotive garage where loud noise is a guarantee. Sometimes I just like peace and quiet, which my library gives me in spades (not sure what the saying means). If my library turned into a Starbucks, I'd be pretty pissed.
07/31/09
It makes sense to me for libraries to provide different sorts of media options, and I guess that in urban areas, having a "game room" at the library might give kids a good after-school option - but to your point... video-gaming and reading books aren't exactly congruous activities.
Makes sense why it's happening though. The Interwebs drove a stake into the heart of the majority of old-school arcades (and even the post office to a certain degree), and now, I'm pretty sure it's doing the same thing to libraries.
I love the Internet, especially looking back on what it was like before it existed. Just sayin.
07/31/09
"The olden days of how a library were run are lame and old. We need modernization, like cafes, hip music, movies, free wi-fi internet, games and if we got space, even books... yo"
Please support your library by buying a blueberry muffin and by forgetting to return an item so you can be charged with overdue fees.
07/31/09
07/31/09
07/31/09
Shame, i have never been to one with games =(. Granted the DVDs they lend are hardly new, so not sure really if i would want to rent a console game. Selection isn't exactly fantastic either.
07/15/09
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!
I hated public/government school.. ever loving minute of it. Boring and .. really just a big waste of time as far as I am concerned.
I really did not start "learning" until I wanted to. And the only reason I wanted to learn was so I could have pride in myself. And be a better person. My intentions are to be a student forever. Always new things to learn.
Surprisingly enough this point where I wanted to learn was after I graduated. And met a mentor who introduced me to Robert Kiyosaki's book "rich dad poor dad"
Now I am going to a technical college as well as taking a vocational course on small engine repair on top of this.
Truth of the matter is this. Government schools are never going to be fun. There not meant to teach you anything, there just there to fill you up with what the state/federal government wants you to know. Nothing more nothing less. Now I do not say this in some conspiracy type way. Its just a fact.
Now there are teachers who are passionate about education and really want kids to learn and expand there mental capacity's, but those are far and few.
I guess to sum up what I am saying. Is he makes a great point. You can't force anyone to do anything, you can only motivate them.
I am more likely to work when I know I am going to be given adequate compensation for my work, then when I know I will get nothing in return.
07/15/09
Public school has a purpose, which isn't to teach children about "subjects". It's about how to read, write, count, think, socialize, and work. The subjects themselves are negligible. Schools are more development centers than learning institutions.
07/15/09
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari_script
This is relevant to my interests.
Also, I like how he said "play is a fundamental educational technology", and that "as a culture, we've forgotten that".
Scientists and researchers have been echoing this sentiment for years now, but none of them are willing to stand up and say that this applies to video gaming as well.
07/15/09
Just like how white boards are used to allow graphics I think gaming could be done that way too but I probably do think they should stay out of the class room. When I volunteered as a teaching assistant for a maths and computing class I found that computers made it quite hard. You have to make sure everyone is computer literate, personally help anyone who falls behind etc. You can't just tell them the maths, you have to tell them the maths and show them how to use the computer too.
I like gaming but I see it more as an aid to learning outside of classes if you choose to rather than a way to make learning more fun.