Edited by ( shake cows, win a ) Milkshake! at 10/07/09 8:31 AM
( shake cows, win a ) Milkshake! was starred
( shake cows, win a ) Milkshake! was unstarred
Hope this becomes successful enough to produce some real concern and reaction. Children should be playing video games and having fun, not fighting wars they were forced into.
@DigitalHero: What if they can change the perspective of how we can play games to educate ourselves in a manner such as how a movie or book might?
I'm not looking down on your opinion, but if someone doesn't try, how can we know what video games can or cannot do. This subject obviously is on shaky grounds so I definitely understand where some people might draw that line as to what and what they don't want done in a form of a game.
Also there was a Holocaust game that was supposed to be in development for the DS in a form of a storybook gameplay style, but that too got put into the bin and to my knowledge never made it past the Nintendo heads.
(DEAD) Goldwings - Remembered for his bravery and heroism... xD was starred
(DEAD) Goldwings - Remembered for his bravery and heroism... xD was unstarred
@DigitalHero: I could see where you're coming from, but this puts runaway slaves in a whole new medium.
Fiction can be biased and warped, but history is set in stone. This is practically history. I am white, but I took an African American history class. There is no race but one race, and that is the human race. If you had Fallout 3, did you enslave people on your "evil" playthrough, or saved them on your "good" playthough. This is just that with escaping as the main subject.
Also, please refrain using Godwin's Law from this from now on.
(DEAD) Goldwings - Remembered for his bravery and heroism... xD was starred
(DEAD) Goldwings - Remembered for his bravery and heroism... xD was unstarred
While it has noble intentions, I have a feeling that if and when the community at large finds out about the project, they'll be a little less understanding to said intentions. Folks don't really like to bring up slavery in this day and age. It's an awkward and uncomfortable subject, even if it was a long time ago.
I can honestly say I would like to play an Underground Railroad game. That era of history was always one of my favorites to read about, and I always wished I could go back in time and help the slaves escape.
@Strom Thurmond: A lot of schools do that, almost to an extreme.
When I referred to the extermination of the Native Americans as "the American holocaust" I ended up suspended for a month, because god forbid anyone simply accept that, like damn near every single county to ever exist, we took the land we have by slaughtering the people who were here before us.
@Strom Thurmond: I grew up in Massachusetts, and my school system really harped on these kind of issues. There was a LOT of self-flagellating over slavery, native americans, etc. It is interesting how different areas treat these kinds of topics. If the game here is done with respect to history, and is not politically motivated in the end, it could be a useful tool. I usually have doubts about how things claiming to have "the whole story" turn out though.
@uchennaokafor: Even though I agree that this is in poor taste, I hope it stays just to piss you off. I've seen your posts about "racist this" and "racist that" when many times there wasn't any racism at all. So while I disagree with the OP, I sure as hell hope it stays just to see you squirm.
* 60% of the scoring is based on "educational" value so you should definitely see a bias toward the educational aspect of Teen Dating Violence in the winning games
* we saw a 40% increase in the number of entries this year!
* we also received entries and requests for info from several different countries representing four continents - and one of the winning entries is from Mexico!
Thanks again to Brian and the Kotaku community for the tremendous support that Jennifer Ann's Group has received.
I'm currently in Europe for law school and am spreading the word about teen dating violence here. Today I was fortunate enough to meet with a Supreme Court Justice of Austria while in Vienna and briefly spoke with him about our efforts and the need to educate teens / young adults about this very real issue.
And... for those of you wondering about the "luscious hair and sparkling smile" I can only say that we *do* share the smile. Check out our website if you wanna see the hair!
I wish I could make a witty comment or joke like I'm sure some others will, but I kind of remember why the subject is so important to you, Brian, and why Valentines Day still sucks. It's just a heap of sad. :(
Thanks for the update on where this contest went. I'm excited to see what kind of creativity will come out here.
This is the most stupidest thing I have ever heard of and frankly its quit pathetic. Wii Music is nothing more than a sham or a gimmick of real instruments and total fucking bullshit. Why can't they give the kids a ruler and put on some music of a saxophone in the background from a CD player and substitute that as emulating the experience of playing a actual saxophone? It's the same thing. Or any instrument for that matter. To pay for a Wii and Wii music for schools as a program its just ridiculous and Wii music is nothing more than an expensive beguiling tool. Especially since many schools have problems with funding text books for students in classes. This is fucking stupidity to the highest level. I can see maybe how this could help mentally disabled kids or something but seriously other than that keep this garbage out of the schools.
@octalass: I could never afford an instrument growing up, but my school still had music classes where we learned notes, terms, and history. Wii Music certainly costs more than some recorders, tamborines, percussion sticks, and other basic instruments.
Excepting that I had to buy my own recorder in grade school, I actually doubt that stocking a classroom with instruments like you mentioned, even inexpensive ones is cheaper than a Wii Music station.
What is it, however, is more inclusive, since Wii Music is limited to four people at a time, and far less tempting to steal.
If you were talking replacement costs, though, you'd surely be correct. Replacing one tambourine is definitely cheaper than replacing one 23 inch LCD panel.
@doubtful: A decent recorder, tamborine, or any other "low level" instrument can be had for $10 and under. Even with a class of 30, you're looking at a far cheaper start up cost when compared to the Wii console, Wii music, display and stand.
@LaneWinree: That's not gonna sound convincing to the people who think that Wii Music is the epitome of evil, which was brought here to replace everything from core games to real instruments in music class.
Okay, then, assuming your inventory of recorders, tambourines, and percussion sticks (and ignoring your 'other basic instruments' addition), your price point of $10 and your class size of 30, let's say you need:
-30 recorders (which would be a recurring cost, since those aren't passed child to child)
-30 tambourines
-30 percussion sticks
At $10.00 each (a figure which I'm assuming means you've never had a government purchasing job before), that would come out to $900.00.
For the Wii music station, you'd need:
-Wii Console
-Wii Music Game
-Three additional controllers with nunchucks
-Television (assuming the schools AV department was woefully lacking)
-stand (assuming the school has no tables or walls)
The console, game, and controllers should run you about $450, leaving you an additional $450 with which to get a small television and stand.
I think the start up costs for both would be fairly comparable, not to mention a television on a rolling cart would be applicable to other areas of the school.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for Wii Music in the classroom. I really have no opinion on that, but I think it's misleading to suggest it would be dramatically more expensive.
@doubtful:Nintendo runs a low cost purchasing program BTW for schools, charities and whatnot, so it's very likely the school would pay far less then $450. Child's Play for one, makes heavy use of this program every year.
More proof idiots going "lol the real thing would be cheaper!1!1" don't know what they are talking about.
@doubtful: Huh? Each child gets one instrument. Really, how many people do you know can play three instruments at once? :p Thirty students playing instruments at $10 a piece would run a school $300. I can assure you that stand alone in the image likely costs about $450 itself, and I'd surmise that the package of the Wii console, game, controllers, and monitor would run closer to $1,000. If I were to go to your extreme, then each student would need three nunchuks, and the classroom enough Wiis to accommodate all students simultaneously, which would be many thousands of dollars over. :p
Paying $700 or so more for a game setup only playable by four students to get them to play fake instruments over real ones is not good for a classroom environment nor conducive to the rest of the group. Good luck getting that approved by schools strapped for cash as well. I'm all for music education, but stocking a class room with Wii Music as part of a mandate for schools to hire music educators is terribly wasteful and inappropriate in my opinion given budget concerns.
@Foxstar Sixtail: There are discounts and grants for the real stuff as well, you know, but I guess us "idiots" are only aware of that. Again, that $450 figure is way too low and would be lucky to cover the cost of the display case alone.
I don't recall ever arguing Wii Sports would be "conducive to" the "classroom environment." I think I pretty clearly said that I didn't have an opinion on that. I actually espoused a similar thought earlier that it would be limiting since only four students could participate at once.
Let me be frank, though, no school is paying $10.00 for their instruments. You also didn't include the prices of the sheet music, the music stands, or the "additional instruments" you mentioned earlier, like xylophones, which would be far more than $10.00. And yes, because all the students are learning the instruments at the same time, it's very likely that, beyond some of the simple percussive instruments, every child would have access to each instrument.
Instruments purchased by elementary schools are not bottom grade; They're meant to take years of abuse. It's ludicrous that you think a music classroom of 30 students could be stocked with standard instruments for $300.00.
Sadly the majority of commenters will ignore the good this can do and engage WII BASHING MODE
I think younger children will definetly benefit from this, going from a 'fake' instrument to the real thing would definetly get kids interested. Imagine children playing saxaphones on Wii music and then getting to play the real thing, slowly taught how to play the notes properly
@excel_excel: It's still better than those douchebag Guitar players who brag about how people who play GH/RB are nerds who'd like to thing they could play the Guitar.
@Szin: hopefully she'll progress onto a real instrument then, perhaps one of her favourites from the game, at such a young age she'd only benefit from that
@MikeF**kingBison: Yeah I know what you mean. I never really got that arguement. I mean Guitar Hero and Rock Band are games created for fun mere simulations intended to entertain the player, not simulations intended to teach people who to play guitar!
@excel_excel: I think there's a good bit a difference between saying someone should actually learn and play a real instrument instead of playing Guitar Hero all day and telling someone to take up a martial art for playing Virtua Fighter 5 extensively. Given the time, effort, and costs which go into these toy guitar rhythm games, one could easily (and often less expensively) buy and learn how to play a real guitar and read music, skills which are far more beneficial to an individual. It's fine if people enjoy playing as an enhanced "air guitar" experience, but those "professional" players who are obsessed with the game without ever touching a real instrument make me think they're throwing a significant part of their lives away. Still, far be it from anyone to tell another what to do with his/her life. Then again, I'm no Republican. :p
You guys are totally missing the point. Wii music isn't meant in any way to mimic what it's like paying a real instrument. All it's meant to do is expose you to the various ways each instrument can be used in an ensemble. I'm sure if you asked most kids, they wouldn't even know what a bassoon was before playing Wii music.
In the end, it's just a good way to pique their interest in playing a musical instrument and expose them to their various sounds. I just don't understand why close-minded people like you feel so against this...oh wait, I just answered my own question.
10/07/09
[www.youtube.com]
EDIT: the start of the doc is a bit misleading, keep with it though.
10/07/09
07/07/09
07/07/09
As long as you get to be a nazi.
07/07/09
Sounds like you think Anti-Semitism is funny.
07/07/09
I'm not looking down on your opinion, but if someone doesn't try, how can we know what video games can or cannot do. This subject obviously is on shaky grounds so I definitely understand where some people might draw that line as to what and what they don't want done in a form of a game.
Also there was a Holocaust game that was supposed to be in development for the DS in a form of a storybook gameplay style, but that too got put into the bin and to my knowledge never made it past the Nintendo heads.
07/07/09
Fiction can be biased and warped, but history is set in stone. This is practically history. I am white, but I took an African American history class. There is no race but one race, and that is the human race. If you had Fallout 3, did you enslave people on your "evil" playthrough, or saved them on your "good" playthough. This is just that with escaping as the main subject.
Also, please refrain using Godwin's Law from this from now on.
07/07/09
[kotaku.com]
Found it.
07/07/09
Damn.
07/07/09
I still disagree and my post wasn't made jokingly. I personally believe that some games do not need to be made.
Also, please don't accuse me of being humorous with the Holocaust. If you posted on Kotaku long enough you would know I take this stuff seriously.
07/07/09
07/07/09
07/07/09
07/07/09
When I referred to the extermination of the Native Americans as "the American holocaust" I ended up suspended for a month, because god forbid anyone simply accept that, like damn near every single county to ever exist, we took the land we have by slaughtering the people who were here before us.
07/07/09
So true, so true.
07/07/09
Where in America ignores that part of history? That's really really odd.
07/07/09
07/07/09
If the game here is done with respect to history, and is not politically motivated in the end, it could be a useful tool. I usually have doubts about how things claiming to have "the whole story" turn out though.
07/07/09
05/29/09
A few notes:
* 60% of the scoring is based on "educational" value so you should definitely see a bias toward the educational aspect of Teen Dating Violence in the winning games
* we saw a 40% increase in the number of entries this year!
* we also received entries and requests for info from several different countries representing four continents - and one of the winning entries is from Mexico!
Thanks again to Brian and the Kotaku community for the tremendous support that Jennifer Ann's Group has received.
I'm currently in Europe for law school and am spreading the word about teen dating violence here. Today I was fortunate enough to meet with a Supreme Court Justice of Austria while in Vienna and briefly spoke with him about our efforts and the need to educate teens / young adults about this very real issue.
And... for those of you wondering about the "luscious hair and sparkling smile" I can only say that we *do* share the smile. Check out our website if you wanna see the hair!
Again, thanks!
Drew Crecente
Executive Director, Jennifer Ann's Group
(and proud father of Jennifer)
05/28/09
Thanks for the update on where this contest went. I'm excited to see what kind of creativity will come out here.
03/13/09
03/13/09
03/13/09
-1 or 2 real ones who do.
-10 trolls
-10 people who realize that this IS useful and not only teachers are looking at it, but colleges currently training people
-3 people who can't pull their head out of their ass.
Numbers subject to change.
03/13/09
03/13/09
03/13/09
Teach them how to play music, not waggle a remote in a pedo-bear suggestive fashion.
03/13/09
03/13/09
Excepting that I had to buy my own recorder in grade school, I actually doubt that stocking a classroom with instruments like you mentioned, even inexpensive ones is cheaper than a Wii Music station.
What is it, however, is more inclusive, since Wii Music is limited to four people at a time, and far less tempting to steal.
If you were talking replacement costs, though, you'd surely be correct. Replacing one tambourine is definitely cheaper than replacing one 23 inch LCD panel.
03/13/09
03/13/09
Those things aren't going away. Wii Music is just a supplemental tool.
03/13/09
[\sarc]
03/13/09
Okay, then, assuming your inventory of recorders, tambourines, and percussion sticks (and ignoring your 'other basic instruments' addition), your price point of $10 and your class size of 30, let's say you need:
-30 recorders (which would be a recurring cost, since those aren't passed child to child)
-30 tambourines
-30 percussion sticks
At $10.00 each (a figure which I'm assuming means you've never had a government purchasing job before), that would come out to $900.00.
For the Wii music station, you'd need:
-Wii Console
-Wii Music Game
-Three additional controllers with nunchucks
-Television (assuming the schools AV department was woefully lacking)
-stand (assuming the school has no tables or walls)
The console, game, and controllers should run you about $450, leaving you an additional $450 with which to get a small television and stand.
I think the start up costs for both would be fairly comparable, not to mention a television on a rolling cart would be applicable to other areas of the school.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for Wii Music in the classroom. I really have no opinion on that, but I think it's misleading to suggest it would be dramatically more expensive.
03/13/09
More proof idiots going "lol the real thing would be cheaper!1!1" don't know what they are talking about.
03/13/09
Paying $700 or so more for a game setup only playable by four students to get them to play fake instruments over real ones is not good for a classroom environment nor conducive to the rest of the group. Good luck getting that approved by schools strapped for cash as well. I'm all for music education, but stocking a class room with Wii Music as part of a mandate for schools to hire music educators is terribly wasteful and inappropriate in my opinion given budget concerns.
@Foxstar Sixtail: There are discounts and grants for the real stuff as well, you know, but I guess us "idiots" are only aware of that. Again, that $450 figure is way too low and would be lucky to cover the cost of the display case alone.
03/13/09
03/13/09
I don't recall ever arguing Wii Sports would be "conducive to" the "classroom environment." I think I pretty clearly said that I didn't have an opinion on that. I actually espoused a similar thought earlier that it would be limiting since only four students could participate at once.
Let me be frank, though, no school is paying $10.00 for their instruments. You also didn't include the prices of the sheet music, the music stands, or the "additional instruments" you mentioned earlier, like xylophones, which would be far more than $10.00. And yes, because all the students are learning the instruments at the same time, it's very likely that, beyond some of the simple percussive instruments, every child would have access to each instrument.
Instruments purchased by elementary schools are not bottom grade; They're meant to take years of abuse. It's ludicrous that you think a music classroom of 30 students could be stocked with standard instruments for $300.00.
03/13/09
I think younger children will definetly benefit from this, going from a 'fake' instrument to the real thing would definetly get kids interested. Imagine children playing saxaphones on Wii music and then getting to play the real thing, slowly taught how to play the notes properly
03/13/09
03/13/09
03/13/09
@MikeF**kingBison: Yeah I know what you mean. I never really got that arguement. I mean Guitar Hero and Rock Band are games created for fun mere simulations intended to entertain the player, not simulations intended to teach people who to play guitar!
@EmeraldDragon: Too late :P
03/13/09
03/13/09
"WII MUSIC SUCKS, LIKE THE WII"
"NINTENDO STOP MAKING THIS CRAP AND GIVE US REAL GAMES"
"ROCK BAND IS MUCH BETTER THAN THIS SHIT"
There, all the comments of this article are resumed there, just saved you some time.
03/13/09
03/13/09
Yup, you pretty much summed up this article.@illiniphase4: @Fallible: @monkeybeach:
You guys are totally missing the point. Wii music isn't meant in any way to mimic what it's like paying a real instrument. All it's meant to do is expose you to the various ways each instrument can be used in an ensemble. I'm sure if you asked most kids, they wouldn't even know what a bassoon was before playing Wii music.
In the end, it's just a good way to pique their interest in playing a musical instrument and expose them to their various sounds. I just don't understand why close-minded people like you feel so against this...oh wait, I just answered my own question.
01/21/09
Why isn't this a standard in all games by now?
01/21/09
Intersting sounding game, but since I lack an iPhone I don't think I can pick this one up.
01/21/09
01/21/09
01/21/09