I am an elementary school media specialist and I have to run two Scholastic Book Fairs every year to raise book purchase funds for my library.
I sell ALL kinds of crap besides books. At the cashier's table I put all my knick-knacks that can get stolen easily like pens, erasers, highlighters, etc. I refer to this as the POS table, because you wouldn't believe how 80% of the students swarm it to buy stuff like $5.00 pens that break before the day is over. One really crappy item was a "digital organizer" that was made to mimic a PSP but had the functionality of a dollar-store calculator. After one poor kid bought one for $18.00 thinking he had something cool, I felt so bad I boxed up the rest of them.
On Parent Night of the Book Fair, the parents actually encourage their kids to by all the overpriced school supply crap, so I guess I shouldn't feel so bad.
Funny thing is, I couldn't get the video games and software to sell if I tried. Can't blame kids for passing on GameBoy Advance math games in 2009, however.
P.S. I forgot to add that while they're at it, the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood should also be up-in-arms about the majority of the BOOKS I have to sell. At least two-thirds of the books are movie and cartoon tie-ins, or books about toy lines. The books are commercials in and of themselves!
Okay, so I'm a teacher. 4th grade, right here in the heart of KotakuDenver. Ironically, I just sent home a Scholastic book order this week. (No, it wasn't to Crecente's child.) I can see both sides to this:
First, as an avid gamer, I understand selling games has been going on for a long time. I understand that many of the games that are advertised may be educational. I also understand that the child and parent have the freedom to choose whether or not to buy it. I think we can agree that this is not an inherently evil practice. In the book order I sent home there was one DS game (Boogie), one Wii game (Nights), and one CD-ROM on typing. There were approx. 7 books that came with "trinkets", 2 stationary sets, an mp3 player, and the 'hottest' item - Guitar Hero carabiner. A handheld LCD screen with 5 note buttons, whammy bar, and folding neck that uses 3 AAA batteries. I heard more buzz about that thing than any other item. There were 121 items, 14 of which were non-books or books with trinkets for a minimal 12% if you round up. Come on, that's nothing.
On the flip side, as teacher and parent, the kids that I want to buy books, that they enjoy and are fun for them, are the first ones to blurt out that they are going to get a game instead. I let my daughter play games. We encourage her to do so. I don't mind if my students play games either, but it's tough to hear that so many of them will go home for hours on end playing games when they struggle to read or perform basic math facts. And, of course, it's usually the student who need the most work that spends the most time playing.
I tell my class that they don't have to buy anything. I encourage them to get books. I discourage them from the games by saying they should get those some other time. When do they just shop for books? For a lot of kids, this is the only time they will ask for books or have the opportunity to get some. Video games are always asked for.
In the end, just because Scholastic has done this for a long time doesn't make it okay to continue. Questioning things is good folks. Why not make two separate orders that teachers and students could choose? Books and Non-books.
It's the 21st century and a lot of people need to embrace the technology we have and kids use. There are a lot of good games and learning opportunities out there and some technophobes need to lighten up.
Wouldn't it be great if parents could be trusted to actually make the right decisions about these matters? If you were a good kid and on top of things at school you could order a game and some stuff. If you were struggling at school you would not get a game.
Most of the time, as a teacher, I have to play the responsible "parent" to my students. Guess what? They don't like it and they get mad at me. Why? Because no one has set boundaries for them. It's no coincidence that some of the kids who perform below grade level are the ones who have 2 TVs in their room, tons of games, eat what they want, and have no bedtime. No boundaries. They will most likely get what they want from the book order. A game.
We don't need the CCFC telling 'us' what to do, because anyone who considers themselves one of 'us' can make the right decisions about things like this on their own because they can see both sides. Games aren't bad. I could get one if I want.
Unfortunately, 'they' should be listening to the CCFC. By 'they' I mean the people who probably can't see why this could ever be a problem.
This is bullshit, as there's plenty of evidence that video games stimulate learning, and are in fact closer to the "ideal" way of learning than traditional school (e.g. you learn through experience, the experience crescendos in difficulty, you learn new skills to apply to new challenges, you're encouraged by small rewards on your way to complete mastery, etc).
For fuck's sake, I have an advanced degree in education, and wrote a thesis on this. Video games are enjoyable to children, but also fulfill a need that children (and adults) have to learn through play. You don't take away something just because it's enjoyable. Perhaps overplaying games (just like overdoing anything) is harmful, but video games do indeed instill in children patience, motivation, problem-solving, and a host of other skills that help them in real life.
Like shooting zombies. I can't tell you how often that's helped me in academia.
This has been going on since when I was in elementary school. They sold software back then. They also sold crap we'd never need like sticky hands and whatnot. Little toys and such.
The point being, this is not a new phenomenon. Books were always the center of the book club, and I'm sure they always will be. I remember the Scholastic pamphlets, and I can't say I don't notice a change - they never sold N64 games through Scholastic, but PC games were there (Oregon Trail, anyone?).
And it does note, "What to do AFTER School." It's not marketing them as educational materials. And they're marketing to the appropriate age group, too. Call me back when they start selling Grand Theft Auto.
All in all, this should be about books. There isn't a question about it. But this has been going on for almost two decades (if not longer), and I don't know why now is the time to call it out.
I would argue that games may sometimes be more educational or informative than books, but if I take M&M Kart racing as an example, please, TAKE THEM OUT OF THE FUCKING BUILDING.
I'm pretty sure they've been selling video games for a while. I remember buying Sim City in elementary school. I think I also bought Zoo Tycoon or Roller Coaster Tycoon at a book fair in middle school.
@KillerBee: You know, normally it would be easy to agree with you and that these parents are making too much of a big fuss, but I can totally see where they're coming from. Kids get enough exposure to toys and games and consoles and such elsewhere, and many are forgetting about the (now) lost art of reading. How many kids do you see picking up a book nowadays instead of reaching for their DS? Granted, there's some educational value to be had from video games, but they're not expected to replace the classic stuff you read as a child to appreciate language and good storytelling.
@eduardjm: My kids each read a book a night BEFORE they do any TV watching or playing. For every book they read, they can watch one cartoon or play one game for 30 minutes. If they want to watch a full length movie, they need to read 3-4 books. You get the idea.
Again, like everything else in this area of debate, it is 100% on the parents. Stop blaming corporations for wanting to make more money. Blame parents for being ignorant and lazy.
@KillerBee: Yes parents do have to take responsibility for what their children watch and play but at the same time kids don't need to be subjected to anymore video games and other non educational things especially when they are in school. I'm sorry but a book fair should only be selling books and book related items such as bookmarks and the like not trying to sell Hana Montana lip gloss
@Befitzero: While i agree with most points, I will say that if you really want to learn how to touch type, there is no better way than MMO's. (Obviously this doesnt work if you type like a moron, in 1337 speek garbage)
My wife's cousins started playing mmo's about a year ago (ages 8 and 6) and their speech and reading comprehension is way way better than their friends who are "Forced" to read books that they hate. And lo and behold now they read books based on the video games they like without even being forced to do so.
When i was about 8 it was the Piers Anthony's Xanth series and Dungeons and Dragons that got me to actually read in my spare time. D&D was then what video games are now, hated by people who dont understand and considered a waste of time by the Christian/Educational Sector, but it would be ineresting to see how many kids learned to read and write just so they could play D&D then, and MMO's now.
@dillinger23: I agree with you in so many ways, like I can't believe that people don't understand what calvery are......... Video games increased my vocabulary so much. I love to read books based on games!
@KillerBee: Whenever I was forced to read all it ended up doing to me was making me hate my parents for that period of time thinking that I didn't have to do this crap, so I just kind of faked reading through a book to get it over with as fast as possible. Now this could work out great with your kids and that would be amazing, but its not great for everyone. Being only 14 though, I probably have no idea what I'm talking about.
@Cheroro: @dillinger23: I am not forcing them to do anything. I am encouraging them to do it. They don't have to read if they don't want to. They can play with their toys, go outside, get on the computer whatever they want. If they want games or TV, they have to read for it.
FYI they are 8, 6, and 3. I am not going to do to my oldest after she turns 9.
so how often do they read books then? I don't think I would've ever played games if I had a read a book then play games for 30 min rule. Or I'd wait till you go to sleep or wake up early and play them behind your back haha. GL with all those kids though.
Selling games in school, unless they stopped doing it. I remember in sixth grade (16 years ago for me.... yikes) getting Castles II for my good old 486 from scholastic. That game was fantastic, by the way. Perhaps this was considered an educational game, so it wasn't an issue?
@Abe_lincoln: I feel better now, we must be the same age- though I don't remember there being games for sale in the Scholastic flyers. I grew up in Canada however- perhaps US only?
@Jeff Paine: You know, this is true, but I remember those games being Oregon Trail and Carmen Sandiego and such...are there any good educational games left these days??? I'm out of the loop, so I wouldn't know. Do kids know who Carmen Sandiego is these days and where the bitch is hiding?
@eduardjm: I remember getting Number Munchers at one of those fairs (god back in.... 88' I think?). I was totally addicted to Number Munchers, and I usually hated math.
Carmen San Diego was a breeze for me though because I loved History, Geography, and Social Studies.
02/10/09
I sell ALL kinds of crap besides books. At the cashier's table I put all my knick-knacks that can get stolen easily like pens, erasers, highlighters, etc. I refer to this as the POS table, because you wouldn't believe how 80% of the students swarm it to buy stuff like $5.00 pens that break before the day is over. One really crappy item was a "digital organizer" that was made to mimic a PSP but had the functionality of a dollar-store calculator. After one poor kid bought one for $18.00 thinking he had something cool, I felt so bad I boxed up the rest of them.
On Parent Night of the Book Fair, the parents actually encourage their kids to by all the overpriced school supply crap, so I guess I shouldn't feel so bad.
Funny thing is, I couldn't get the video games and software to sell if I tried. Can't blame kids for passing on GameBoy Advance math games in 2009, however.
02/10/09
P.S. I forgot to add that while they're at it, the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood should also be up-in-arms about the majority of the BOOKS I have to sell. At least two-thirds of the books are movie and cartoon tie-ins, or books about toy lines. The books are commercials in and of themselves!
02/10/09
First, as an avid gamer, I understand selling games has been going on for a long time. I understand that many of the games that are advertised may be educational. I also understand that the child and parent have the freedom to choose whether or not to buy it. I think we can agree that this is not an inherently evil practice. In the book order I sent home there was one DS game (Boogie), one Wii game (Nights), and one CD-ROM on typing. There were approx. 7 books that came with "trinkets", 2 stationary sets, an mp3 player, and the 'hottest' item - Guitar Hero carabiner. A handheld LCD screen with 5 note buttons, whammy bar, and folding neck that uses 3 AAA batteries. I heard more buzz about that thing than any other item. There were 121 items, 14 of which were non-books or books with trinkets for a minimal 12% if you round up. Come on, that's nothing.
On the flip side, as teacher and parent, the kids that I want to buy books, that they enjoy and are fun for them, are the first ones to blurt out that they are going to get a game instead. I let my daughter play games. We encourage her to do so. I don't mind if my students play games either, but it's tough to hear that so many of them will go home for hours on end playing games when they struggle to read or perform basic math facts. And, of course, it's usually the student who need the most work that spends the most time playing.
I tell my class that they don't have to buy anything. I encourage them to get books. I discourage them from the games by saying they should get those some other time. When do they just shop for books? For a lot of kids, this is the only time they will ask for books or have the opportunity to get some. Video games are always asked for.
In the end, just because Scholastic has done this for a long time doesn't make it okay to continue. Questioning things is good folks. Why not make two separate orders that teachers and students could choose? Books and Non-books.
It's the 21st century and a lot of people need to embrace the technology we have and kids use. There are a lot of good games and learning opportunities out there and some technophobes need to lighten up.
Wouldn't it be great if parents could be trusted to actually make the right decisions about these matters? If you were a good kid and on top of things at school you could order a game and some stuff. If you were struggling at school you would not get a game.
Most of the time, as a teacher, I have to play the responsible "parent" to my students. Guess what? They don't like it and they get mad at me. Why? Because no one has set boundaries for them. It's no coincidence that some of the kids who perform below grade level are the ones who have 2 TVs in their room, tons of games, eat what they want, and have no bedtime. No boundaries. They will most likely get what they want from the book order. A game.
We don't need the CCFC telling 'us' what to do, because anyone who considers themselves one of 'us' can make the right decisions about things like this on their own because they can see both sides. Games aren't bad. I could get one if I want.
Unfortunately, 'they' should be listening to the CCFC. By 'they' I mean the people who probably can't see why this could ever be a problem.
02/10/09
02/10/09
02/10/09
For fuck's sake, I have an advanced degree in education, and wrote a thesis on this. Video games are enjoyable to children, but also fulfill a need that children (and adults) have to learn through play. You don't take away something just because it's enjoyable. Perhaps overplaying games (just like overdoing anything) is harmful, but video games do indeed instill in children patience, motivation, problem-solving, and a host of other skills that help them in real life.
Like shooting zombies. I can't tell you how often that's helped me in academia.
02/10/09
The point being, this is not a new phenomenon. Books were always the center of the book club, and I'm sure they always will be. I remember the Scholastic pamphlets, and I can't say I don't notice a change - they never sold N64 games through Scholastic, but PC games were there (Oregon Trail, anyone?).
And it does note, "What to do AFTER School." It's not marketing them as educational materials. And they're marketing to the appropriate age group, too. Call me back when they start selling Grand Theft Auto.
All in all, this should be about books. There isn't a question about it. But this has been going on for almost two decades (if not longer), and I don't know why now is the time to call it out.
02/10/09
02/10/09
02/10/09
Only if you compare, say, a Doom novel to Hearts of Iron 2.
02/10/09
Way to stay with the times, CCFC!
02/10/09
02/10/09
And I cant help wonder how the CCFC would react to them selling the Dante's Inferno video game.
02/10/09
02/10/09
02/10/09
02/10/09
Again, like everything else in this area of debate, it is 100% on the parents. Stop blaming corporations for wanting to make more money. Blame parents for being ignorant and lazy.
02/10/09
02/10/09
My wife's cousins started playing mmo's about a year ago (ages 8 and 6) and their speech and reading comprehension is way way better than their friends who are "Forced" to read books that they hate. And lo and behold now they read books based on the video games they like without even being forced to do so.
When i was about 8 it was the Piers Anthony's Xanth series and Dungeons and Dragons that got me to actually read in my spare time. D&D was then what video games are now, hated by people who dont understand and considered a waste of time by the Christian/Educational Sector, but it would be ineresting to see how many kids learned to read and write just so they could play D&D then, and MMO's now.
02/10/09
@KillerBee: Whenever I was forced to read all it ended up doing to me was making me hate my parents for that period of time thinking that I didn't have to do this crap, so I just kind of faked reading through a book to get it over with as fast as possible. Now this could work out great with your kids and that would be amazing, but its not great for everyone. Being only 14 though, I probably have no idea what I'm talking about.
02/10/09
FYI they are 8, 6, and 3. I am not going to do to my oldest after she turns 9.
02/10/09
so how often do they read books then? I don't think I would've ever played games if I had a read a book then play games for 30 min rule. Or I'd wait till you go to sleep or wake up early and play them behind your back haha. GL with all those kids though.
02/10/09
Oh, I forgot to mention this rule only applies Monday through Friday, weekends are fair play.
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02/10/09
Sorry.
02/10/09
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02/10/09
anybody remember cross country canada? wow.
02/10/09
Carmen San Diego was a breeze for me though because I loved History, Geography, and Social Studies.
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02/10/09
Yes, yes, a million times yeeeeeeeeeeesssss
02/10/09