You know, it was this very incident that caused me to stop reading Destructoid. I've never been back to the site. When this tragedy occurred, they posted an article proclaiming "There is a God!"
Why you ask would the death of a person in a terrible accident like this prove the existence of God? Well, the writer didn't like Avary's script for "Silent Hill" and this meant he'd probably go to jail, so it was to be celebrated. I wish I was kidding.
@KBeat:
KBeat, I was really hoping you were joking but you sounded sincere. I checked out the Destructoid website and was disgusted to see that you were telling the truth. [www.destructoid.com]
Brad Rice was the nasty blogger that wrote this horrid line.
I'm sorry for the dead newly-wed, I'm sorry for his poor wife, even though Avary was responsible I pity him for the guilt he will carry for killing his friend. This tragedy is not something a videogames writer should crow about.
He was going 100 mph WHILE drinking and driving? As much as I liked Silent Hill (flame all you want, it really did capture the feel of the games better than any prior game-to-film adaptation) and loved Pulp Fiction, I can't do what the judge/jury did and look the other way.
1 year? Are you kidding me? If he had been driving at 100 mph while randomly shooting a shotgun that ended up killing his passenger would that have been a 1 year sentence?
I would have taken away his license for life and sentenced him to 5-10 years, depending on a whole mess of circumstances. I would have also gone after the person who served him after he was drunk and arrested his/her ass and investigated the bar/restaurant to see if they were serving other visibly intoxicated people illegally.
I would have been Sloopydrew: Super Judge. That's just how I roll.
@Sloopydrew: I'm not sure what the statistic is, but generally speaking an intoxicated person who commits manslaughter generally gets a much lighter sentence than if he were sober.
And don't blame the Jury, the jury doesn't decide the sentence. they can recommend one, sure, but it's the judge that determines the sentencing. The jury did it's job by finding him guilty.
Driving while intoxicated, reckless driving AND vehicular manslaughter on top of that?!
Normal Joe: 15 years, minimum.
Some Hollywood Schmo: 1 year.
Speaking of manslaughter, how can they charge you double homicide if you kill a pregnant woman, yet the courts don't count the unborn baby as a person when the woman wants to kill it via an abortion? Was there a separate court case that set the precedent that killing a pregnant woman was considered double murder by a conservative judge, and then Roe v. Wade was decided by a liberal majority? How can an unborn baby be both a living person and not a living person just by depending on the circumstances?
@(Human) Gyaruson: Eeeee I'm really hesitant to even respond to this because this is bound to spiral quickly into ChaosTown, but I'll quickly just say that Roe v. Wade was decided by the US Supreme Court, and the double homicide laws you mention are set by state legislatures. It gets a little more intricate than that, but I have a feeling this thread has the potential to get out of control REAL quick.
@raffleking:
It's always puzzled me, and I don't want to start some pro-choice/pro-life debate here, but I've seriously wrote senators and shit asking this same question. Never got a response, but it seriously irks me that our judicial system can be so assbackwards sometimes.
I guess I just wanted to bring that reality to light. I don't want people saying "killz yur babies" or "god hates ab0rti0n!" but I just thought some people may find it as frustrating as I do.
@IvanDashSmith:
You bring up good questions my friend. The law sucks and there are so many obvious whatthehell? laws it could boggle the mind. Like not being able to take a bath on Sundays in Illinois or something. Yeah, look it up. :)
@(Human) Gyaruson: WTF? Your connection of abortion to this case via manslaughter is loose at best. Why did you feel so compelled to interject that? If you want an answer to that question ask a lawyer or do some real research beyond a comment on a game site. I'm pretty sure the forums here aren't full of people well versed on the intricacies of laws and statutes.
@davincij:
It's not my connection. It's the lawmakers. And I said why I brought it up - to bring such hypocritical laws to the forefront of the minds who may not have been aware. And if you would've actually read my post, I said that I did actually write one of my state's Senator, but he did not respond. And believe it or not, I did get a lot of helpful information from my fellow commenters, like...
@Covertghost:
I think you're on to something. Obviously if a woman is pregnant, there's a good chance she wanted to go full-term with the pregnancy and have the child so the termination of said pregnancy was against her will, thus murder.
@ReconToaster.:
Well, according to the law, they are all separate crimes. The drinking did negatively affect his judgement, but the crimes are still separate and in court he will be tried for each one separately.
@(Human) Gyaruson: Really? That obvious statement is the helpful info you got from this site? Was a pregnant woman involved in the story this post is about? Did I miss that part? If not, why do some people feel compelled to throw abortion into non-abortion stories?
This is a depressing story to wake up to. While I can sympatize with Avary, he was a fecking dumbass to drive when he was drunk. It's a big problem over here and you can be sure that he would have gotten more than a year for this.
@-MasterDex-: You in the UK Dex? See below, we were trying to determine what the laws regarding DUIs/vehicular manslaughter were over there. Not implying that you'd be an expert or anything based purely on your geographic location, just wondering. I do know that Europe and Japan tend to be WAAAAY more strict about that kind of thing. We had a family friend visiting from the UK back when our state (Virginia) changed its legal blood alcohol limit from .10% to .08%. Some idiots were making a fuss, and our friendly British subject was like "...are you fucking serious?"
edit: NM, just looked it up. Apparently the UK is also .08, but most of the rest of Europe is .05
DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE
DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE
DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE
DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE
DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE!
If you think you can, DON'T. You're impaired, not empowered by your own abilities.
Michael Dukakis promoted this comment
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@nkxjakfhda: This. I'm fine with the year sentencing and high payment if that's what the family wants, but under no circumstance should he be allowed to drive again. DUI is a joke in the US, and until we actually treat it as a crime, people won't think anything of doing exactly what Avary did here.
@Bricked: Probably largely due to the fact that Stallworth killed a stranger while Avary's victim was his passenger. Also, different criteria for judgement in different states along with differing juries, details, etc.
@Bricked: Eh there's probably a lot of factors. I'm guessing one of them is that the guy Stallworth killed ran in between two parked cars through the middle of the street trying to catch a bus. The court showed that essentially Stallworth (or anyone) wouldn't have had time to stop even if they were sober. Still a really, really shitty situation.
@WhiteMage: I am sure not all of the family is happy with this, and surely no one is jumping for joy. But you don't know what they are going to do with that money, and when a loved one is killed by a crime or accident, no amount of incarceration will bring them back. But maybe this money is a large part of anything he has saved up, and it will severely hamper his lifestyle when he is out of prison. Maybe the family will invest the money in something which helps prevent more drunk driving and deaths.
Meh, lofty assumptions on my part maybe. Call me an optimist.
I think it is disgusting to drive drunk, yes. But to act like the man went out and shot some people is ridiculous. He's obviously very remorseful and in pain, and it was his newly married friend.
He doesn't need people making such comments about him. Whereas the people who have no response but to suck money from him out of it...are also disgusting.
@WhiteMage: "You should be upset with the victim's family, who opted to take the guy for 4.1 million dollars." You should be upset with your own clown-shoed ignorance. WTF does that even mean, to you, "they opted to take... "? What was the alternative to "taking" the money?
Oh yeah, having a loved one killed, and LOSING all future support of that person, both emotionally and financially, forever. "Too bad, so sad", is that it? Is that what you're saying?
Yes, how dare they expect to be compensated over a silly "accident". What the fuck is wrong with you?
This is easily the worst section of Kotaku comments I have ever seen. Several of you guys are severely depressing me.
You have no idea what that dude is fucking going through, or the family of the victim for that matter. Instead, you'd rather snark on him going to jail, claiming that it's not enough. "Hope you get raped!" "Oh, I wish I could kill someone and only do a year!" Really? That sounds both perverse and sadistic.
The veil of anonymity that the internet allows us lets us make all kinds of bad decisions on a regular basis without really considering the consequences. Imagine yourself, for a brief moment, saying all these things to this guy in REAL LIFE, and I hope you feel as ashamed as I do for you.
Where is Witzbold to moderate this shit? Who even does that anymore?
@CitizenTian: I would say it to his face: 1 year is bullshit. When I lost my sister to vehicular manslaughter, the guy got 10 years [edit: and at times it doesn't feel it's enough. No matter of years would bring her back, but no matter of (claimed) regret on the guilty's part should earn a lighter sentence.]. If my sisters killer was getting 1 year, I would be livid. Why should we be the ones to apologize? Who has the right to disobey laws that keep others safe, throwing caution to the wind, and when THEY fuck up, we are the ones who should feel bad?
While the veil of anonymity brings out some silly phrases, I would proudly go to Ventura and tell him to his face: No matter what regret you may feel now, there was plenty of reason to never get into this situation to begin with. Your selfishness has ruined the lives of others, and I have no sympathy for whatever bad things fall upon you because of YOUR selfishness.
@CitizenTian: when i read your post, all i heard was:
LEAVE ROGER AVARY ALONE! YOU'RE LUCKY HE EVEN WROTE SILENT HILL FOR YOU BASTARDS! LEAVE HIM ALONE!
@Whizkid103: Wow, way to throw away any credibility you had for your arguments there.
Tian and Ivan both bring up a good points. I knew as soon as I saw this article on Kotaku that these boards were going to light up. Everyone gets impassioned about this sort of thing, for various reasons. Maybe someone close to you died from vehicular manslaughter. Maybe you've known someone who has committed it. But the level of discourse here has plummeted into the toilet. We seem to be forgetting that there's a thing called THE LAW involved here. And I'm willing to bet that most, if not all, of us are not bar-certified lawyers in the state of California, so we can't possibly understand the intricacies of the California law code as applied to Vehicular Manslaughter. Sure, we can debate on theoretical principles about how we feel the application of the law should be handled, but we walk a fine line in trying to do that. One of the main reasons the law exists in its present form is to take the emotions out of the retribution process. If we allow our emotions to dictate law, then we might as well allow vigilantism.
@raffleking: Saying that he's been through enough because he killed his friend is bullshit. Tian sounded like some sort of fanboy.
He killed a person. End of story. And a year is nothing. Famous people get away with everything simply because they're famous.
It's kind of ironic (in a sad way) that people are commenting how terrible the loss of a life is, while simultaneously promoting the idea of destroying another life in response.
@Whizkid103: A year is nothing, but it's largely up to the victim to determine the extent of retribution and punishment to seek. Since this was a friend he killed, I'd wager the friend's family was lenient on seeking stiffer sentencing.
@Whizkid103: I don't think "fanboy" deserves to get thrown around here. You (and many, many others here) are making black and white statements about a section of law that is anything but black and white. I could get into how sentencing works in cases like this, but I feel that might be a waste of my time. People here have made a judgement on this case in the span of no more than an hour and feel they are more qualified to interpret law than the likely dozens of people intimately involved in this case. Am I denying that famous people get special treatment? Absolutely not, and I think that is an area in which our legal code has grossly failed us. Do I think that in this particular case Avery's fame was the reason he got this sentence? No. Because I DON'T KNOW ALL THE GRAY AREAS ABOUT THIS CASE. It's really easy to apply monochrome paint-by-numbers legal opinion here, but that's thankfully why none of us are lawyers/judges per Ivan's suggestion.
@raffleking: HA. I was just being kinda silly. It really is the role of the judge to determine this stuff. Only reason I am against lawyer in that situation is all too often it can be about finding an unrelated element just to get the win.
@IvanDashSmith: Yeah that's the lawyer game, and part of the reason why I decided against law school (another reason being I didn't feel like completely giving up my social life for 2 to 3 years). You're right though, judge was way more appropriate in this case...pun intended?
@IvanDashSmith: didn't the dead guy fuck up when he got sauced and decided to get in the car being driven by another drunk guy? or does being dead totally excuse you from being a fuck up too? i guess we should just lambaste the shit out of that "murderer" then.
and a question about your sister since you're publicly mentioning it...did she die riding as the passenger in her killer's car? was it a very close friend of hers that ended up killing her, or some stranger?
@ghastlyprotector: she was the passenger of her boyfriend driving. you should read down further in the comments. I go through a whole thing with Hey Blinkton about if getting in a car with someone else who is drunk is stupid, and if you always know they are drunk. It's all gray areas. And who knows, maybe he was the more sober one that night. We will never know.
My sisters case, she was being picked up from work. Her boyfriend caused the accident. I can't imagine she would've have known her boyfriend was drunk. I actually forget how drunk he was, but there was alcohol in his system.
Since I am talking about it, and there seems to be question about if the killer knowing the victim makes the severity any different, and yes he was her boyfriend. He was in a coma for 2 weeks after the accident, she died on impact. He was pulled from the vehicle and taken to a hospital. When he woke up from his coma, he said "I wasn't driving, she was." Says a lot about his character. Then at trial, he plead guilty and told the judge he felt remorse, but never extended this remorse or any kind of apology to my family. So, I take the claims of guilt from people facing hard time with a grain of salt.
@Whizkid103: Well, look at the situation. He drove drunk, and killed someone who got into the car with him when he was drunk. Zini was just as responsible for his death as Avary. While sad, this isn't one of those awful stories about people being hit by drunk drivers.
@Hey_Blinkon: You obviously have a cemented opinion on this. I can see it in each comment you make. I saw the same thing when this was reported previously. I get torn up inside every time I read the statement about the passenger being just as responsible, and I feel your view on this is grossly black and white.
I say that because there are so many gray areas. I never knew it until I was older and actually going to bars and drinking. When a friend goes to leave and he seems pretty drunk and says "nah im good, I live down the street. I never have a problem." Well thats the case with a lot of these situations: they never have a problem... until the ONE time they do. Until the one time they get the DUI or get in an accident.
And that persons face doesn't look like the red nosed hobo-bum who is stumbling and slurring every word of their speech. It is a person you know and often they don't seem much different than normal. There isn't creepy music playing like you hear on TV or the movies when something bad is about to happen. The only clue is a level of judgment I have rarely seen in others in such situation.
When you go drinking with friends, do you monitor each and every drink they have been drinking? Do you carry a breathalizer with you to check their blood alcohol level before you go?
Have you ever heard this: "No, I only had one beer. I am fine." One time I refused to get in a car with someone who said this to me (I think this was before I actually drank and knew what 1 beer did to myself) and everyone thought I was being stupid.
Now what if that person lied? Why wouldn't you take their word for it? What if that person was sneaking drinks? What if that person showed up drunk?
I say things like this because everything has so many gray areas. And also because my sister was a passenger in a vehicular homicide. Her boyfriend was driving, and his blood alcohol level was high enough for a DUI. Did she have any way of knowing? If she knew, would she be afraid to say anything? Was the alcohol the most significant factor in that particular accident? I don't know the answers to these questions, never will, but I guess I would like to believe that she wasn't at fault for her own death.
Hindsight is 20/20. And I hope you can open your mind to the possibility that you don't always have all the facts after the matter when you find yourself in a situation like this.
@IvanDashSmith: WHen I go drinking with my friends, you bet your ass I either A, make sure they AREN'T drinking at all (and making sure of it), or B, get a cab, if I can't fulfill A. I'm sorry about your sister. My sister-in-law was almost killed by a drunk driver (long hospitalization), but fortunately survived. But, getting into the car with a drunk driver, your sister is, at least somewhat responsible for her own death. Doesn't make it less of a tradgedy, which it most certainly is. But, if they were going out drinking, plans should have been made ahead of time, or at the time. You can tell when you are drunk. Or at least I can, and I err on the side of caution. I couldn't live with the guilt Avary has to.
Bottom line, no one MAKES you get in a car with a drunk driver, but you. And kudos to you for not getting in the car after someone had 1 beer. I've done the same thing. You can never know if they were on some prescription med or something that makes them drunk easier.
@IvanDashSmith: Well in tort there is such a defense called contributory negligence. Basically the injured party was negligent and that negligence lead to their injury. There is also assumption of the risk, where you're aware of the danger and chose to encounter it anyway. Both are total bars to recovery for the plaintiff.
I know if I was defending this guy in civil court those would be two defense I try my damnedest to get.
So what am I trying to say, well, legally, yes the person hurt can be just as at fault for their own injury. Not trying to be a dick, just pointing out the legal reality of it.
@Hey_Blinkon: Pulled straight from your sentence "if they were going out drinking." Which is a factor in this kind of thing. IF i was PLANNING to go out drinking, yeah I either have a designated driver or drink very little so I can drive. My sister on the other hand was being picked up from work. She didn't know what her boyfriend was doing before he came, and she had no way of knowing IF he was intoxicated, or by how much. Is she still responsible for her death?
Again, there are many factors in these situations, and while I agree with the idea that if you are planning to go drinking, you are right, you didn't plan ahead and it is your fault. But do you know for certain that is the situation here?
It just comes across as very blanket statement to me when I have read your comments. Reminds me of statements like "Its the wifes fault for not leaving the abusive husband." You know? Just comes off insensitive and whatnot.
Now lets say you found that one of your friends was drunk who was supposed to drive you home that night. It is 2 am. You don't live in a town with taxis. You don't live close enough to walk home. You don't have the money or means to find a hotel room nearby. If you leave your car overnight it will be towed. Will the cops give you a ride home and move your car? I know this is a very specific situation, but I am curious as to how you would handle this situation.
Myself, I have been in a situation like this. Was way more drunk than the guy who drove, he drove fine and we got home ok, and I was freaked out the whole time. Yet I somehow seemed like the stupid one for freaking out beforehand just because we all got home safe. Suffice to say, I didn't go out drinking with those people again. :)
@IvanDashSmith: Your sister's situation sounds a lot more complicated than I thought. Sorry about that. I think that is the exception more than the rule though.
But, on the 2nd situation you pitched, I'd sure be in a shitty situation. I don't know what I'd do. But I certainly wouldn't drive or get into the car with a drunk person. It simply isn't an option. If I had to get towed/sleep on a bench/etc., so be it.
@IvanDashSmith: Well not ALL defense attorneys, but there are those I do wonder how they sleep at night or look themselves in the mirror.
Personalty I largely detest civil law, it reduces everything to numbers and it's where you get the weasel defense attorneys and the ambulance chasers, I'm aiming for the title of District Attorney.
@Hey_Blinkon: I feel like I made a breakthrough. :) I appreciate your understanding and am glad to hear your sister is OK.
Sad as it is, you may be right about it being the exception. Though most situations still have a lot of gray area, there are often options no one knows they have. Which is sad.
I feel like the older I get, the less I get in those situations, but also the more ways I have to get out of them. Damn you murphey's law.
It's a sad situation, plain and simple. Yes, it was his fault and yes, he's paying for it. Makes it no less of a tragedy for anyone involved. I don't know if I could handle being responsible for a close friend's death, almost being responsible for the death of my lover as well.
Sadly, he's probably the perfect person to write a Silent Hill film now.
10/01/09
Why you ask would the death of a person in a terrible accident like this prove the existence of God? Well, the writer didn't like Avary's script for "Silent Hill" and this meant he'd probably go to jail, so it was to be celebrated. I wish I was kidding.
10/01/09
KBeat, I was really hoping you were joking but you sounded sincere. I checked out the Destructoid website and was disgusted to see that you were telling the truth.
[www.destructoid.com]
Brad Rice was the nasty blogger that wrote this horrid line.
I'm sorry for the dead newly-wed, I'm sorry for his poor wife, even though Avary was responsible I pity him for the guilt he will carry for killing his friend. This tragedy is not something a videogames writer should crow about.
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1 year? Are you kidding me? If he had been driving at 100 mph while randomly shooting a shotgun that ended up killing his passenger would that have been a 1 year sentence?
I would have taken away his license for life and sentenced him to 5-10 years, depending on a whole mess of circumstances. I would have also gone after the person who served him after he was drunk and arrested his/her ass and investigated the bar/restaurant to see if they were serving other visibly intoxicated people illegally.
I would have been Sloopydrew: Super Judge. That's just how I roll.
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And don't blame the Jury, the jury doesn't decide the sentence. they can recommend one, sure, but it's the judge that determines the sentencing. The jury did it's job by finding him guilty.
10/01/09
Normal Joe: 15 years, minimum.
Some Hollywood Schmo: 1 year.
Speaking of manslaughter, how can they charge you double homicide if you kill a pregnant woman, yet the courts don't count the unborn baby as a person when the woman wants to kill it via an abortion? Was there a separate court case that set the precedent that killing a pregnant woman was considered double murder by a conservative judge, and then Roe v. Wade was decided by a liberal majority? How can an unborn baby be both a living person and not a living person just by depending on the circumstances?
10/01/09
10/01/09
It's always puzzled me, and I don't want to start some pro-choice/pro-life debate here, but I've seriously wrote senators and shit asking this same question. Never got a response, but it seriously irks me that our judicial system can be so assbackwards sometimes.
I guess I just wanted to bring that reality to light. I don't want people saying "killz yur babies" or "god hates ab0rti0n!" but I just thought some people may find it as frustrating as I do.
10/01/09
Whoa, somehow it double-posted.
10/01/09
That said, read any of "rafflekings" previous statements on here: law is a bunch of gray areas.
Why is it ok to pay women to be in a porno but not ok to pay a woman for sex?
Why is it ok to get a transfer cable when you buy a 120gb HDD for the XBOX, but not when you get a 60gb HDD or a new xbox elite?
Some questions are better left alone. (or not promoted)
10/01/09
You bring up good questions my friend. The law sucks and there are so many obvious whatthehell? laws it could boggle the mind. Like not being able to take a bath on Sundays in Illinois or something. Yeah, look it up. :)
10/01/09
"Driving while intoxicated, reckless driving AND vehicular manslaughter on top of that?!"
You act as if they're all separate crimes, but they all kind of lead into one another.
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It's not my connection. It's the lawmakers. And I said why I brought it up - to bring such hypocritical laws to the forefront of the minds who may not have been aware. And if you would've actually read my post, I said that I did actually write one of my state's Senator, but he did not respond. And believe it or not, I did get a lot of helpful information from my fellow commenters, like...
@Covertghost:
I think you're on to something. Obviously if a woman is pregnant, there's a good chance she wanted to go full-term with the pregnancy and have the child so the termination of said pregnancy was against her will, thus murder.
10/01/09
Well, according to the law, they are all separate crimes. The drinking did negatively affect his judgement, but the crimes are still separate and in court he will be tried for each one separately.
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edit: NM, just looked it up. Apparently the UK is also .08, but most of the rest of Europe is .05
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DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE
DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE
DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE
DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE!
If you think you can, DON'T. You're impaired, not empowered by your own abilities.
10/01/09
Spoken like a true sane person.
10/01/09
No wonder its so popular. I think I'll get drunk RIGHT NOW!
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You should be upset with the victim's family, who opted to take the guy for 4.1 million dollars.
10/01/09
Meh, lofty assumptions on my part maybe. Call me an optimist.
10/01/09
Think before you post.
Think about how you would reply to your own post. Surely even you can see the flawed logic.
10/01/09
I think it is disgusting to drive drunk, yes. But to act like the man went out and shot some people is ridiculous. He's obviously very remorseful and in pain, and it was his newly married friend.
He doesn't need people making such comments about him. Whereas the people who have no response but to suck money from him out of it...are also disgusting.
10/01/09
Oh yeah, having a loved one killed, and LOSING all future support of that person, both emotionally and financially, forever. "Too bad, so sad", is that it? Is that what you're saying?
Yes, how dare they expect to be compensated over a silly "accident". What the fuck is wrong with you?
09/30/09
You have no idea what that dude is fucking going through, or the family of the victim for that matter. Instead, you'd rather snark on him going to jail, claiming that it's not enough. "Hope you get raped!" "Oh, I wish I could kill someone and only do a year!" Really? That sounds both perverse and sadistic.
The veil of anonymity that the internet allows us lets us make all kinds of bad decisions on a regular basis without really considering the consequences. Imagine yourself, for a brief moment, saying all these things to this guy in REAL LIFE, and I hope you feel as ashamed as I do for you.
Where is Witzbold to moderate this shit? Who even does that anymore?
10/01/09
While the veil of anonymity brings out some silly phrases, I would proudly go to Ventura and tell him to his face: No matter what regret you may feel now, there was plenty of reason to never get into this situation to begin with. Your selfishness has ruined the lives of others, and I have no sympathy for whatever bad things fall upon you because of YOUR selfishness.
10/01/09
This.
This.
This x 1,000
10/01/09
LEAVE ROGER AVARY ALONE! YOU'RE LUCKY HE EVEN WROTE SILENT HILL FOR YOU BASTARDS! LEAVE HIM ALONE!
10/01/09
Tian and Ivan both bring up a good points. I knew as soon as I saw this article on Kotaku that these boards were going to light up. Everyone gets impassioned about this sort of thing, for various reasons. Maybe someone close to you died from vehicular manslaughter. Maybe you've known someone who has committed it. But the level of discourse here has plummeted into the toilet. We seem to be forgetting that there's a thing called THE LAW involved here. And I'm willing to bet that most, if not all, of us are not bar-certified lawyers in the state of California, so we can't possibly understand the intricacies of the California law code as applied to Vehicular Manslaughter. Sure, we can debate on theoretical principles about how we feel the application of the law should be handled, but we walk a fine line in trying to do that. One of the main reasons the law exists in its present form is to take the emotions out of the retribution process. If we allow our emotions to dictate law, then we might as well allow vigilantism.
10/01/09
He killed a person. End of story. And a year is nothing. Famous people get away with everything simply because they're famous.
10/01/09
It's kind of ironic (in a sad way) that people are commenting how terrible the loss of a life is, while simultaneously promoting the idea of destroying another life in response.
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Change that last statement to "judges" and you've got my vote. :)
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and a question about your sister since you're publicly mentioning it...did she die riding as the passenger in her killer's car? was it a very close friend of hers that ended up killing her, or some stranger?
10/01/09
My sisters case, she was being picked up from work. Her boyfriend caused the accident. I can't imagine she would've have known her boyfriend was drunk. I actually forget how drunk he was, but there was alcohol in his system.
Since I am talking about it, and there seems to be question about if the killer knowing the victim makes the severity any different, and yes he was her boyfriend. He was in a coma for 2 weeks after the accident, she died on impact. He was pulled from the vehicle and taken to a hospital. When he woke up from his coma, he said "I wasn't driving, she was." Says a lot about his character. Then at trial, he plead guilty and told the judge he felt remorse, but never extended this remorse or any kind of apology to my family. So, I take the claims of guilt from people facing hard time with a grain of salt.
09/30/09
You can drive drunk, kill someone, and only get a year in prison.
09/30/09
10/01/09
I say that because there are so many gray areas. I never knew it until I was older and actually going to bars and drinking. When a friend goes to leave and he seems pretty drunk and says "nah im good, I live down the street. I never have a problem." Well thats the case with a lot of these situations: they never have a problem... until the ONE time they do. Until the one time they get the DUI or get in an accident.
And that persons face doesn't look like the red nosed hobo-bum who is stumbling and slurring every word of their speech. It is a person you know and often they don't seem much different than normal. There isn't creepy music playing like you hear on TV or the movies when something bad is about to happen. The only clue is a level of judgment I have rarely seen in others in such situation.
When you go drinking with friends, do you monitor each and every drink they have been drinking? Do you carry a breathalizer with you to check their blood alcohol level before you go?
Have you ever heard this: "No, I only had one beer. I am fine." One time I refused to get in a car with someone who said this to me (I think this was before I actually drank and knew what 1 beer did to myself) and everyone thought I was being stupid.
Now what if that person lied? Why wouldn't you take their word for it? What if that person was sneaking drinks? What if that person showed up drunk?
I say things like this because everything has so many gray areas. And also because my sister was a passenger in a vehicular homicide. Her boyfriend was driving, and his blood alcohol level was high enough for a DUI. Did she have any way of knowing? If she knew, would she be afraid to say anything? Was the alcohol the most significant factor in that particular accident? I don't know the answers to these questions, never will, but I guess I would like to believe that she wasn't at fault for her own death.
Hindsight is 20/20. And I hope you can open your mind to the possibility that you don't always have all the facts after the matter when you find yourself in a situation like this.
10/01/09
Bottom line, no one MAKES you get in a car with a drunk driver, but you. And kudos to you for not getting in the car after someone had 1 beer. I've done the same thing. You can never know if they were on some prescription med or something that makes them drunk easier.
10/01/09
I know if I was defending this guy in civil court those would be two defense I try my damnedest to get.
So what am I trying to say, well, legally, yes the person hurt can be just as at fault for their own injury. Not trying to be a dick, just pointing out the legal reality of it.
10/01/09
Again, there are many factors in these situations, and while I agree with the idea that if you are planning to go drinking, you are right, you didn't plan ahead and it is your fault. But do you know for certain that is the situation here?
It just comes across as very blanket statement to me when I have read your comments. Reminds me of statements like "Its the wifes fault for not leaving the abusive husband." You know? Just comes off insensitive and whatnot.
Now lets say you found that one of your friends was drunk who was supposed to drive you home that night. It is 2 am. You don't live in a town with taxis. You don't live close enough to walk home. You don't have the money or means to find a hotel room nearby. If you leave your car overnight it will be towed. Will the cops give you a ride home and move your car? I know this is a very specific situation, but I am curious as to how you would handle this situation.
Myself, I have been in a situation like this. Was way more drunk than the guy who drove, he drove fine and we got home ok, and I was freaked out the whole time. Yet I somehow seemed like the stupid one for freaking out beforehand just because we all got home safe. Suffice to say, I didn't go out drinking with those people again. :)
10/01/09
10/01/09
But, on the 2nd situation you pitched, I'd sure be in a shitty situation. I don't know what I'd do. But I certainly wouldn't drive or get into the car with a drunk person. It simply isn't an option. If I had to get towed/sleep on a bench/etc., so be it.
10/01/09
Personalty I largely detest civil law, it reduces everything to numbers and it's where you get the weasel defense attorneys and the ambulance chasers, I'm aiming for the title of District Attorney.
10/01/09
Sad as it is, you may be right about it being the exception. Though most situations still have a lot of gray area, there are often options no one knows they have. Which is sad.
I feel like the older I get, the less I get in those situations, but also the more ways I have to get out of them. Damn you murphey's law.
09/30/09
I wish I could kill someone and only serve a year in prison!
/s
*hates people even more*
09/30/09
09/30/09
...this can't end well.
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
Sadly, he's probably the perfect person to write a Silent Hill film now.