This site needs a /no Nintendo filter so every damn Nintendo thread that comes up doesn't have to have a bunch of angry nerds being miserable over how Nintendo doesn't represent them anymore.
This constant bemoaning of Nintendo is nothing but idiocy in a capitalist world because ask yourself this question: What company -esp in the last 25 years -(in any industry) aims not to make the most money possible? Simple maths here will tell you that three companies going after the same audience is not as potentially profitable as one company going after a different audience.
The PS1 superbly outsold the competition beacuse it had the Wiiesque appeal of aiming to attract EVERYBODY. It had (compared to the competition) a sleek and sexy design, it carried the name of one of the biggest and influential companies the technology AND entertainment industry had ever seen. As well as this it also had your tradtional games carried over from the SNES/MD era, it brought in many new "casual" types of games and it introduced a new and (at the time) exciting format that was growing to be the biggest shake up many industries had seen. This compared to the N64 which used old clunky media, was backed by a campaign aimed to really attract those who were previous Nintendo fans.
The PS2: Ticking all the boxes that the PS1 already did, Sony then went on to dominate the competition with a lineup of casual games and the image that it was OK to have a gaming console in your living room because a games console wasn't just about Solo experiences but also about social gatherings. This was backed up by such major hits as Singstar, Eye Toy, Buzz etc. As we know the console pretty much went unchallenged until the Xbox came along. Where was Nintendo? Still trying to convince gamers-wait, let me say that again- G.A.M.E.R.S. (Yes, you "hardcore", fickle, only "true" gamers)that Nintendo was the company for you by attempting to get some of the big players in Sony's twilight years on their side such as Namco, Capcom and even the Yamuichi despised Square Enix to help make the console seem a bit more rounded.
The N64 and the GCN were always aimed solely at Nintendo fans first and foremost with every other aspect coming as a second thought and for that reason many of the now disgruntled Nintendo fans who fail to realise that by buying a PS1/2/Xbox you pretty much made Nintendo's mind up about their direction that they needed to take in order to have a viable market share and avoid a SEGAesque bow out that seemed like it was a foregone conclusion during the GCN days where I distinctly remember reading rumor after rumor about Microsoft's ambition to buyout the company.
Face it, the only way Nintendo could compete with two other companies going after the same market was to alter its statergy, take a hit on the technology side in order to go for a cheap, affordable console that had a new and instantlly approachable control scheme that would make people who have always looked at games as a child's pass-time or a hobby for young men to waste their lives on look at the console and think: "That looks like fun! I want one" - just like they did with the PS2... -
All this talk about the Wii "killing gaming" is stupid and unfounded. Just like when the PS1 (and more importantly the PS2) came into play Nintendo are simply trying to make more money by broadening out its audience, and to be honest with several companies both outside and inside the industry falling like flies in a global recession. Can you really blame them for wanting to appease everybody as opposed to the traditional gamer? History has taught Nintendo that gamers aren't loyal and essentially they are an unpleasable fan base ([tvtropes.org] )that will always want what they don't get.
@Makeda: While I respect your reasoning I think there's a bit of revisionist history in your argument. The original Xbox didn't actually sell much better than the Gamecube worldwide, and the Gamecube was far more profitable for Nintendo than the Xbox ever was for Microsoft. While the GC did not succeed on market share, I don't think the comparison is far.
The PS2 also had a rather rocky launch and was most definitely targeted at the hardcore gamers out there. For a long time there was little sign of any casual titles. Eventually the console gained a second wind part-way through it's life with more casual titles like Singstar, Eye Toy, Buzz as you mention, but this was not where the console was aimed early on. Many gamers I knew had already moved on to the next generation of consoles by the time Buzz and Singstar started to really drive PS2 sales. Not that it really mattered because the PS2's game library can cater to any and all.
To me the Wii difference is that the early adopters jumped on board with expectations that Nintendo did nothing to dispel. Both side had their reasons for acting as they did. Unlike the PS2 though the range of Wii titles is nowhere near as diverse. It's certainly no PS2. What you're seeing now are buyers who feel cheated. I'm console agnostic personally so don't really care, but I do have some sympathy for those with an unused Wii lying around.
Oh, and I'm seeing far more Nintendo defense on this article than bashing. ;)
@MattB: yeah, and as you said... all of these consoles had a trojan horse. the playstation had the cds, and an overall different catalogue of games.. while the ps2 had dvds. sure, the games werent there at first, but dvds were originally the ps2s "waggle." the xbox had online, but thats something gamers are more interested in. so in round 3 for sony, they yet again introduce a new form of media.. the bluray.. but the thing is.. its not nearly as important as compact discs or dvds. ESPECIALLY during a recession. i understand their reasoning behind blurays.. but i think its the biggest set back in the end.. the price is too high for most.. and only people truly devoted to entertainment see the value in bluray.
@MattB: Hmm, after re-going over my xbox section I think I made that console seem like it dramatically outperformed the GCN, when as you so rightly stated the reality isn't as clear cut.
What I was trying to get across was that (judging by third party support/titles and the reaction from my friend circle) the original xbox seemed like the only other console of that generation that you could own instead of a PS2 while the GC was looked at as the 'ugly duckling' (for lack of a better term^^)
At present I agree with you in the fact that the Wii's liabry at present isn't as diverse as the PS2's. However, I feel that if the console is given a little bit more thought from 3rd party developers as well as some faith from gamers you could indeed see a large wealth of titles that offer a deeper experience than we are currently getting. The problem with the Wii is that unlike the PS2 (for a large period of its lifespan) it is sadly pigeonholed between two powerhouse consoles so the more demanding titles often go to the PS3/360 as opposed to be considered as a Wii game
@shouryuuken: The recession couldn't have come at a worse time for Sony and their PS3. Thier more or less stuck in a loose/loose situation where as you stated the console is massively exspensive comapred to its rival(s)* with features that people need a fair share of disposable income to really get the benefit of.
*Im not too sure the price of the Xbox 360 elite over the PS3 in other markets outside of the UK; but over here they are about the same price.
@Makeda: yeah.. an 80 gig ps3 is the same price as an elite (400 usd).. but i work in a video game store.. and alot of people buy the arcade xbox 360 (199 usd), and i think that if the ps3 was even 300.. itd do so much better.
@MattB: yeah, i remember my cousin having this.. like 800 - 1000 dollar dvd player in 1996. but yeah, thats another thing that was good.. dvd players were cheaper to make in 2000 than bluray players in 06.. so sony had a great advantage there. what i meant is that it was the first console wise when it came to dvds.. it launched dvd as a format to play console games on. but the fact that it played movies (especially over the dreamcast) sold it to so many people that probably bought less than 5 games the whole time they owned it.
Nintendo isnt the company they used to be. They qualitied controlled everything back in the day from the mandatory nintendo seal of quality to actually limited developers on how many games they could release per year to keep the game quality high as possible.
Now look at the game isle for the wii and ds in any store and tell me they still give a shit about quality titles.
Or maybe the fact each time they release a system you see less and less nintendo brand games. Or the fact they release a major system and then every year and a half make a small adjustment, change the color and charge more for it. How many times did they change the gameboy systems? Like 4 or the ds into the dsi. Yeah screen is 1/9th inch bigger, battery life is worse and it has 2 cameras and they charged 60 bucks more for it.
The Nintendo Seal of Quality is and always was a marketing gimmick. It's primary reason for being around was to sooth the fear of TOY STORES, which in the mid 80's were the place you went for video games, not GameStop. Toy stores got burned big time on the 83 crash and lost tens of millions of dollars when they ended up with stock they couldn't move, because in those days, you had to place your orders ahead of time and pay full price..you only made your money back if the carts sold.
Nintendo's "You can only release 3 games a year" policy did NOTHING to stop shovelware, because Konami, Capcom and countless other publishers simply opened up new publishing houses to get around that limit and next to the PS2 and SNES, the NES had a crapload of shovelware like nothing else.
This "Nintendo isn't what they used to be." line is bullshit of the highest order. Nintendo today is pretty much like Nintendo of the 80's and like Nintendo of 1889 was like. Same mission statement, same goals, but every single thread, we have folks with rose-colored glasses not only on, but bolted onto their face who claim that somehow Nintendo's changed when Nintendo has changed very little, other then this gen taking a double risk, first in the form of the DS, then in the form of the Wii.
You've gotten older. Take off those rose colored glasses and see things for what they are. And for the love of god, learn how to state viable points.
@Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.: lol yeah.. nintendo published around 60 games in all regions during the whole life span of the gamecube (about 5 years). 2 and a half years into the wiis life.. theyve done about 35.. during the nintendo 64s life.. there was alot less.. and the super nintendo era they probably did close to 60 again.
point? nintendo aint changed.. theyve just added a new area of gaming to their existing catalogue. its different sure, but its not like they stopped making their other games and only made wii fit/sports/music/play, and brain age/big brain academy. its really silly how these kids always whine on here about nintendo abandoning people. they really havent.. the only thing they should do more of is buy up random studios like sony/microsoft so they could have odd games not made by them..msft has no internal teams.. and sony has barely any.. they just buy up companies or make exclusive deals. media molecule, naughty dog, insomniac, sucker punch.. and the list goes on. dont get me wrong, i LOVE The games that come out of those teams... but i applaud nintendo and get pissed at the haters because guess what.. a large bulk of the games that theyre known for are all home grown. nobody else catches flak for this though.. like blizzard. world of WARCRAFT, STARCRAFT II, DIABLO III. seriously.. whens the last time they did something other than some form of western rpg or rts... blackthorne on snes? seriously.
I laugh that most of us hardcore gamers think that a company whose only purpose is to make money - is being disloyal to its fans and followers. Get over it, Stop whining, go back an play whatever fits you and understand that gaming doesnt belong only to us hardcore gamers. It never has.
I'm not crazy about the term myself, but you know what it implies and it hardly negates BryanGuitarDude's point. You do realize you are reading a blog site which uses the term rather frequently?
Sure, I miss their old days, but I genuinely think they're expanding the gaming world. Never before would I have imagined seeing some of my pals sit down and play SSB, No More Heroes, or even Trauma Center.
Now if only we can get rid of their re-hashes. (FUCK YOU, Animal Crossing!)
@Gorilla Snow is Maximum Risky: I hope they make a phoenix wright game on Wii so I can point the sh*t out of my opponents with the wii stick. That'd make Wii an instant buy for me.
They're doing some good stuff but also doing some bad stuff in my opinion. In the end you can still enjoy the Wii and it's a good console but I wish they'd make more new Wii exclusive traditional titles (Nintendo themselves) rather than just make new casual ones like Wii fit, sports, resort etc.
@xxXX_Insanities_Birth_XXxx: But they've been doing just that. We're 2.5 years in and the Wii brand games are Sports, Music, Fit, Play and Sports2. On the regular nintendo games we've had Zelda, Metroid, Kart, 2 Excite ones, Mario, Fire Emblem, Wars, Smash, Wario... and the inbetweeners like Warioware, big brain academy, sluggers, crossing, strikers and party. Not even counting re-releases and future games like Another Code, Punchout or Pikmin 3, or the infamous unreleased (in america) like Captain Rainbow or Dissaster.
And yes, people will argue that somehow thet didn't like ANY of those games, but at the end of the day, nintendo is releasing more titles than ever and maybe, just maybe it isn't nintendo who's abandoning these "core" gamers, maybe it's the other way around... and that's OK, no one HAS to like them.
What's not OK is being a whiny little bitch on every single nintendo related article. - And i have to make clear that this last statement is NOT about you, you seem well rounded on your comments on this thread-
I JUST bought Broken Sword for the wii and it's freaking awesome... i belive it was a PS or PS2 game, but still, the game is top notch on puzzles, argument and voice acting.
Not to put down Nintendo's accomplishments, but where do their plans lay after the Wii and the DS and what can they do to convince the same amount of people who bought a Wii to buy their next console?
Don't worry about Nintendo in the handheld market. If you look at their track record from new handheld to new handheld, you'll see the obviously know what they're doing.
As for Wii to next system? I think it'll go like the NES - SNES. I could be wrong, but that's how I think it's going to go down.
@akumaserge: im actually predicting something like this. the "superwii" will have better graphics than the next gen xbox and playstation.. itll have more solid controls.. building on the wiimote + motion plus combo.. and no nunchuk.. instead.. it will come with a classic controller. now, we'll keep having "waggle" games.. and updated versions of wiifit and whatever other phenomenons nintendo comes out with before the wii is done with.. and third parties can port all the hard hitters for the "hardcore" like fallout, call of duty, gta and the like with no effort.
also, the economy will be stronger, and the system will launch for $299.
Microsoft being that high just shows how ignorant most consumers are. I guess reputations are bought through advertising and not earned in any other way.
@RockyRan: Yes, but Microsoft is nefarious. The started business by stealing DOS, used their muscle to cohearse almost every computer company in existence, price fixed all products, started a war against Open Source software, lobbied and campaigned the conservative party to, successfully, drop monopoly suits ... the list goes on forever. Knowingly releasing the xbox360 with an outrageously high defect rate to get ahead start doesn't even make it on the list.
Sony is a saint (which otherwise would be a ridiculous statement), and Nintendo is Jesus compared to MS.
@charles_swann: sony, saintly? how old are you? apparently not old enough to remember sony's sordid gaming business past. they were well known for pushing smaller dev houses around and buying them out to secure exclusive franchises for the playstation. you think they ended up with like 20 first party studios built from the ground up? nah, chief.
and it hardly stopped there. what about the hardware debacle that was BOTH the first two playstations? what about how they denied for years that the hardware had inherent factory defects much like you demonize MS for? how about the fact that they, even further, would not warranty that bad hardware, leaving the consumer to either try to find a way to have it repaired, or send it to sony and be charged for it, or just throw it away and buy a new one? even MS after a few months admitted they goofed up and slapped a 3 year replcement warranty on the issue. 3 years is unheard of in gaming hardware warranty. yeah sony, saint indeed.
@SoulSiphon: I'd heart you for saving me the trouble of clarifying for him what you've typed, but the system appears to be down at the moment. :/ Maybe I'll take up the "Nintendo is Jesus" part of that ridiculous statement later.
@PatrickF**kingStar: It's doing well in their blue ocean strategy. If it's hate it's jealous, cough cough MS's new motion control and ps3's sixaxis. The casual games might not be for you, but it might be for the millions of others out there. Just like the wii fit.
@Rebochan:Because so many of the gaming media aren't that far apart from the hate-spewing, semi inbred folks they have visiting their websites. Oh how I do remember the endless..endless hit pieces and snide comments about Nintendo when the Game Cube launched, when the GBA launched and the almost weighty, baited breath boiling over glee from IGN, GameSpot and festering pots of xenophobic gamers like GameFAQ's and even the PA fourms when the DS was announced. Oh hardcores finally felt that Nintendo had overstepped it's limited that with this duel-screen, touch screen gimmicky POS that finally Sony's still not fully announced PSP would sweep in and break Nintendo's last fortress, it's hold over handheld games. People placed bets, six months to catch up to the DS install base, a year and the DS would be millions of units behind. After all how could the DS match the Red-Mage of all portable media devices, the PSP? The Walkman for the 2000's had finally varied and by -god- it would bring Nintendo down. As it got closer to launch, I also remember those various little 'news' nuggets on how Nintendo needed to gracefully exit hardware development..maybe join up with Microsoft and the both of them together might be able to match Sony and the unstoppable PlayStation brand. But they better hurry, or end up like Sega.
And the PSP launched. Overpriced, undersupported and soon a pirate's best friend. Software was priced insanely, a new game cost $40 and EA's offerings often hit the $50 dollar mark. The UMD cases were junk, the battery life was meh, the controls didn't set the world on fire, but it didn't matter it was the Playstation Portable and the DS had no chance.
Time passed..and the next round of systems were announced. The 360 looked to deal with all of the issues that the Xbox had and they were coming out swinging. The PS3 was announced and people got ready to enjoy what would surely be a 3rd gen of Sony control. Yeah that Xbox had a okey launch and the grey market made it some money, but people were saving up so they could buy a car with PS3 profits.
And Nintendo announced the Wii..and time rolled backwards some and it was just like the announcement of the DS. Everyone forgot how wrong they had been about the DS, this..thing had no chance, not with 100+ million likely Playstation fans ready to adopt..and with the 360, Nintendo didn't have a chance.
@Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.: Haha, good comment. Makes me wonder, since the PS3 is the bottom of sales this gen, do you suppose those same commenters and bloggers will be calling for Sony to go third party so we can play killzone on our Wiis and 360s? Somehow, I doubt it they've even had the thought.
@Skinney is now KamikazeSim: The only problem is, they aren't appealing to everyone. And they're hardly doing anything to keep the ones that they've appealed to hooked. This is a problem that has to be dealt with as soon as possible.
You see, I never had a thing against these "casual" gamers. I consider myself a "casual". But one thing we simply cannot afford is to have "casual" and "hardcore" be differed. Whenever an industry shifts away from either point, it suffers. It's what happened to comics, arcades, anime, and pretty much PC gaming in general. I don't want that to ever happen to consoles.
Speak for yourself. I'm a so-called "hardcore" gamer and I play my Wii on the reg. There's tons of good games out for the system now that I personally think are good. I'm not going to bother making list, cause it's pointless but yeah, speak for yourself.
@FunKrusher: I own a Wii too. And I like it. But a console with it's kind of lead should be murdering the competition in terms of 3rd party software. They kinda dropped off for the past year.
@PatrickF**kingStar: I personally don't feel the shift is a bad thing. As long as games are being made for all demographics I don't see the problem. I wouldn't want to see games become easier and more simple just to appeal to everyone(WoW comes to mind)
We have Nintendo for your kids, and Sony/MS for the adults. People need to get over the 'great snes days' and realize that although I liked the n64, and the GC, in both cases if I was my age now, I would of bought a ps1 and ps2.
All the good games from the snes days were mostly thirdparty stuff. Capcom, Square, they still make great games. Just not on the wii.
Hardcore people should be buying a sony or ms console (or pc), and waiting for the end of the wii's cycle. Buy a wii when it's $150 or less and can say there is a good selection of games already released that I want to play - that justify that $150.
Nintendo - just like Disney doesn't grow up with you, they don't make 18+ movies. They make movies that although adults can enjoy, are mostly targeted at children - since children make them money and not adults.
@FunKrusher: ill do it for you, boom blox, call of duty3/WaW, Driver, ghost squad, The Godfather, harvest moon, Legend of zelda, madworld, madden, House of the dead2/3/overkill, mario kart, medal of honor heroes 2, metroid prime 3, no more heroes, okami, red steel, resident evil 4/UC, scarface, Speed racer, Super paper mario, Super mario galaxy, TMNT, tomb raider, wario ware, wario land, WWe smackdown vs raw zack and wiki...look em up all good games.
@outlawauron: Yeah, but the PS2 was cool, remember? The Wii is tehlame. At least thats what the commenters here tell me.
Seriously folks. How is it possible that gaming is moving mainstream and getting more recognition, more advertising, more development dollars, more respect, and yet gamers are pissed about it? Nintendo is just the most successful, they're not the only ones moving this medium to the masses.
@sereal: "I personally don't feel the shift is a bad thing. As long as games are being made for all demographics I don't see the problem"
The Wii may have many bases covered, but not all of them, and many of them aren't covered well enough. I don't know of any Western-style RPGs. The only JRPGs I know of are Baroque and Tales of Symphonia 2, which is about the same as covering that base with two inept guards. The only Tactical RPG I know of is Radiant Dawn, which is about the same as expecting one really good guard to secure an entire base. With the exception of MP3:C, all the FPSs have been average at best, which is a real shame considering the controller would be great for it. If you want a racer and don't care for Mario Kart, you'll be SOL - there are no good substitutes to Burnout, Forza, Gran Turismo, Pure, Grid or WipeOutHD. (And seriously, why hasn't there been an F-Zero on the Wii yet?)
@uWaAvenger: Of the 31 games you listed 16 are ports. 4 are sequels to games so similar to their predecessors they're barely indistinguishable beyond waggle support. Only 5 are original IPs.
That's not really "good" statistic-wise.
I'm not saying they themselves are not good games, but it pretty much does sum up the status of the console in most people's eyes (sadly): a system home solely to rehashes and ports.
Also, you forgot de Blob. That game was "de shit."
@b-radicate: "Of the 31 games you listed 16 are ports. 4 are sequels to games so similar to their predecessors they're barely indistinguishable beyond waggle support. Only 5 are original IPs."
Change "waggle support" to "updated graphics" and you're describing the best games on the 360 and PS3. So what?
@charles_swann: Your right, I cheered for them because I was young. Now I've grown up and what I like has changed and what they make isn't for me. They didn't change with me and that's why I can't cheer for them anymore.
@Akua: nintendos beem around since te begiining, and theyve lwys had he basic lineup with tweaks here and there, its what works in a business, you changed how? now you dont enjoy fun gmes? because face it they still have those in spades, you dont have to like the casual stuff, the hardcore stuff is still there, mario galaxy, mteroid prime, legend of zelda, super paper mario, super smash bros brawl, all came out in hearl lifspan of the wii think about how long you had to wait for all those games on gamecube, simply because they added new tyes of games along side those shows that they have expanded thir lineups if anything adding to their masive games list that theyv had for the last 3 decades.
@uWaAvenger: Could deppend on his age too. When I was in high school/early college age I thought I was too old for a lot of Nintendo's stuff and it was too kiddie(but Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were AWESOME in college) but later years in college I kinda grew out of the phase where everything has to be Mature rated or not cartoony for me to like it and realized how fun the games still are..... (although I did still secretly play Mario 64 freshmen year of college, man that game was good).
@fearing: You've hit the nail on the head here. Anyone who says, "I dislike a certain company because my tastes have grown up" clearly has a lot of growing up to day. How can your tastes "grow up" when you're still sitting in front of the TV playing pretend. What people are ACTUALLY saying when they say their tastes have "grown up" is that when they play pretend, they like to pretend to be a space marine instead of an italian plumber, or that they prefer to be a god killing other gods instead of an elf killing a pig beast. It's all the same thing people. These are GAMES we're talking about here, not fine wines. Hell, even wine is getting too serious in the last 20 years. Don't make this hobby something it's not.
05/07/09
Either way, it makes me laugh how Greenpeace's constant panning of Nintendo for non-disclosure is totally ignored for this, haha...
05/07/09
This constant bemoaning of Nintendo is nothing but idiocy in a capitalist world because ask yourself this question: What company -esp in the last 25 years -(in any industry) aims not to make the most money possible? Simple maths here will tell you that three companies going after the same audience is not as potentially profitable as one company going after a different audience.
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Heres some examples:
The PS1 superbly outsold the competition beacuse it had the Wiiesque appeal of aiming to attract EVERYBODY. It had (compared to the competition) a sleek and sexy design, it carried the name of one of the biggest and influential companies the technology AND entertainment industry had ever seen. As well as this it also had your tradtional games carried over from the SNES/MD era, it brought in many new "casual" types of games and it introduced a new and (at the time) exciting format that was growing to be the biggest shake up many industries had seen. This compared to the N64 which used old clunky media, was backed by a campaign aimed to really attract those who were previous Nintendo fans.
The PS2: Ticking all the boxes that the PS1 already did, Sony then went on to dominate the competition with a lineup of casual games and the image that it was OK to have a gaming console in your living room because a games console wasn't just about Solo experiences but also about social gatherings. This was backed up by such major hits as Singstar, Eye Toy, Buzz etc. As we know the console pretty much went unchallenged until the Xbox came along. Where was Nintendo? Still trying to convince gamers-wait, let me say that again- G.A.M.E.R.S. (Yes, you "hardcore", fickle, only "true" gamers)that Nintendo was the company for you by attempting to get some of the big players in Sony's twilight years on their side such as Namco, Capcom and even the Yamuichi despised Square Enix to help make the console seem a bit more rounded.
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The N64 and the GCN were always aimed solely at Nintendo fans first and foremost with every other aspect coming as a second thought and for that reason many of the now disgruntled Nintendo fans who fail to realise that by buying a PS1/2/Xbox you pretty much made Nintendo's mind up about their direction that they needed to take in order to have a viable market share and avoid a SEGAesque bow out that seemed like it was a foregone conclusion during the GCN days where I distinctly remember reading rumor after rumor about Microsoft's ambition to buyout the company.
Face it, the only way Nintendo could compete with two other companies going after the same market was to alter its statergy, take a hit on the technology side in order to go for a cheap, affordable console that had a new and instantlly approachable control scheme that would make people who have always looked at games as a child's pass-time or a hobby for young men to waste their lives on look at the console and think: "That looks like fun! I want one" - just like they did with the PS2... -
All this talk about the Wii "killing gaming" is stupid and unfounded. Just like when the PS1 (and more importantly the PS2) came into play Nintendo are simply trying to make more money by broadening out its audience, and to be honest with several companies both outside and inside the industry falling like flies in a global recession. Can you really blame them for wanting to appease everybody as opposed to the traditional gamer? History has taught Nintendo that gamers aren't loyal and essentially they are an unpleasable fan base ([tvtropes.org] )that will always want what they don't get.
05/07/09
Thank you.
05/07/09
The PS2 also had a rather rocky launch and was most definitely targeted at the hardcore gamers out there. For a long time there was little sign of any casual titles. Eventually the console gained a second wind part-way through it's life with more casual titles like Singstar, Eye Toy, Buzz as you mention, but this was not where the console was aimed early on. Many gamers I knew had already moved on to the next generation of consoles by the time Buzz and Singstar started to really drive PS2 sales. Not that it really mattered because the PS2's game library can cater to any and all.
To me the Wii difference is that the early adopters jumped on board with expectations that Nintendo did nothing to dispel. Both side had their reasons for acting as they did. Unlike the PS2 though the range of Wii titles is nowhere near as diverse. It's certainly no PS2. What you're seeing now are buyers who feel cheated. I'm console agnostic personally so don't really care, but I do have some sympathy for those with an unused Wii lying around.
Oh, and I'm seeing far more Nintendo defense on this article than bashing. ;)
05/07/09
05/07/09
What I was trying to get across was that (judging by third party support/titles and the reaction from my friend circle) the original xbox seemed like the only other console of that generation that you could own instead of a PS2 while the GC was looked at as the 'ugly duckling' (for lack of a better term^^)
At present I agree with you in the fact that the Wii's liabry at present isn't as diverse as the PS2's. However, I feel that if the console is given a little bit more thought from 3rd party developers as well as some faith from gamers you could indeed see a large wealth of titles that offer a deeper experience than we are currently getting. The problem with the Wii is that unlike the PS2 (for a large period of its lifespan) it is sadly pigeonholed between two powerhouse consoles so the more demanding titles often go to the PS3/360 as opposed to be considered as a Wii game
@shouryuuken: The recession couldn't have come at a worse time for Sony and their PS3. Thier more or less stuck in a loose/loose situation where as you stated the console is massively exspensive comapred to its rival(s)* with features that people need a fair share of disposable income to really get the benefit of.
*Im not too sure the price of the Xbox 360 elite over the PS3 in other markets outside of the UK; but over here they are about the same price.
05/07/09
@MattB: yeah, i remember my cousin having this.. like 800 - 1000 dollar dvd player in 1996. but yeah, thats another thing that was good.. dvd players were cheaper to make in 2000 than bluray players in 06.. so sony had a great advantage there. what i meant is that it was the first console wise when it came to dvds.. it launched dvd as a format to play console games on. but the fact that it played movies (especially over the dreamcast) sold it to so many people that probably bought less than 5 games the whole time they owned it.
05/07/09
Nintendo isnt the company they used to be. They qualitied controlled everything back in the day from the mandatory nintendo seal of quality to actually limited developers on how many games they could release per year to keep the game quality high as possible.
Now look at the game isle for the wii and ds in any store and tell me they still give a shit about quality titles.
Or maybe the fact each time they release a system you see less and less nintendo brand games. Or the fact they release a major system and then every year and a half make a small adjustment, change the color and charge more for it. How many times did they change the gameboy systems? Like 4 or the ds into the dsi. Yeah screen is 1/9th inch bigger, battery life is worse and it has 2 cameras and they charged 60 bucks more for it.
05/07/09
The Nintendo Seal of Quality is and always was a marketing gimmick. It's primary reason for being around was to sooth the fear of TOY STORES, which in the mid 80's were the place you went for video games, not GameStop. Toy stores got burned big time on the 83 crash and lost tens of millions of dollars when they ended up with stock they couldn't move, because in those days, you had to place your orders ahead of time and pay full price..you only made your money back if the carts sold.
Nintendo's "You can only release 3 games a year" policy did NOTHING to stop shovelware, because Konami, Capcom and countless other publishers simply opened up new publishing houses to get around that limit and next to the PS2 and SNES, the NES had a crapload of shovelware like nothing else.
This "Nintendo isn't what they used to be." line is bullshit of the highest order. Nintendo today is pretty much like Nintendo of the 80's and like Nintendo of 1889 was like. Same mission statement, same goals, but every single thread, we have folks with rose-colored glasses not only on, but bolted onto their face who claim that somehow Nintendo's changed when Nintendo has changed very little, other then this gen taking a double risk, first in the form of the DS, then in the form of the Wii.
You've gotten older. Take off those rose colored glasses and see things for what they are. And for the love of god, learn how to state viable points.
05/08/09
point? nintendo aint changed.. theyve just added a new area of gaming to their existing catalogue. its different sure, but its not like they stopped making their other games and only made wii fit/sports/music/play, and brain age/big brain academy. its really silly how these kids always whine on here about nintendo abandoning people. they really havent.. the only thing they should do more of is buy up random studios like sony/microsoft so they could have odd games not made by them..msft has no internal teams.. and sony has barely any.. they just buy up companies or make exclusive deals. media molecule, naughty dog, insomniac, sucker punch.. and the list goes on. dont get me wrong, i LOVE The games that come out of those teams... but i applaud nintendo and get pissed at the haters because guess what.. a large bulk of the games that theyre known for are all home grown. nobody else catches flak for this though.. like blizzard. world of WARCRAFT, STARCRAFT II, DIABLO III. seriously.. whens the last time they did something other than some form of western rpg or rts... blackthorne on snes? seriously.
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-1 for people who label themselves...
05/07/09
I'm not crazy about the term myself, but you know what it implies and it hardly negates BryanGuitarDude's point. You do realize you are reading a blog site which uses the term rather frequently?
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Consoles: Good
Cameras: Bad
Computers: Okay
TVs: Good (modern) Fucking Awesome (CRTs)
Phones: hahahahahahahaha...
I can totally see how they'd be so low.
05/07/09
Sure, I miss their old days, but I genuinely think they're expanding the gaming world. Never before would I have imagined seeing some of my pals sit down and play SSB, No More Heroes, or even Trauma Center.
Now if only we can get rid of their re-hashes. (FUCK YOU, Animal Crossing!)
05/07/09
I guess we were just cool.
05/07/09
They're doing some good stuff but also doing some bad stuff in my opinion. In the end you can still enjoy the Wii and it's a good console but I wish they'd make more new Wii exclusive traditional titles (Nintendo themselves) rather than just make new casual ones like Wii fit, sports, resort etc.
05/07/09
And yes, people will argue that somehow thet didn't like ANY of those games, but at the end of the day, nintendo is releasing more titles than ever and maybe, just maybe it isn't nintendo who's abandoning these "core" gamers, maybe it's the other way around... and that's OK, no one HAS to like them.
What's not OK is being a whiny little bitch on every single nintendo related article. - And i have to make clear that this last statement is NOT about you, you seem well rounded on your comments on this thread-
05/07/09
I JUST bought Broken Sword for the wii and it's freaking awesome... i belive it was a PS or PS2 game, but still, the game is top notch on puzzles, argument and voice acting.
05/07/09
05/07/09
Don't worry about Nintendo in the handheld market. If you look at their track record from new handheld to new handheld, you'll see the obviously know what they're doing.
As for Wii to next system? I think it'll go like the NES - SNES. I could be wrong, but that's how I think it's going to go down.
05/07/09
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also, the economy will be stronger, and the system will launch for $299.
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05/07/09
Sony is a saint (which otherwise would be a ridiculous statement), and Nintendo is Jesus compared to MS.
05/07/09
and it hardly stopped there. what about the hardware debacle that was BOTH the first two playstations? what about how they denied for years that the hardware had inherent factory defects much like you demonize MS for? how about the fact that they, even further, would not warranty that bad hardware, leaving the consumer to either try to find a way to have it repaired, or send it to sony and be charged for it, or just throw it away and buy a new one? even MS after a few months admitted they goofed up and slapped a 3 year replcement warranty on the issue. 3 years is unheard of in gaming hardware warranty. yeah sony, saint indeed.
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Also, protip, Nintendo didn't invent motion controls.
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05/07/09
And the PSP launched. Overpriced, undersupported and soon a pirate's best friend. Software was priced insanely, a new game cost $40 and EA's offerings often hit the $50 dollar mark. The UMD cases were junk, the battery life was meh, the controls didn't set the world on fire, but it didn't matter it was the Playstation Portable and the DS had no chance.
Time passed..and the next round of systems were announced. The 360 looked to deal with all of the issues that the Xbox had and they were coming out swinging. The PS3 was announced and people got ready to enjoy what would surely be a 3rd gen of Sony control. Yeah that Xbox had a okey launch and the grey market made it some money, but people were saving up so they could buy a car with PS3 profits.
And Nintendo announced the Wii..and time rolled backwards some and it was just like the announcement of the DS. Everyone forgot how wrong they had been about the DS, this..thing had no chance, not with 100+ million likely Playstation fans ready to adopt..and with the 360, Nintendo didn't have a chance.
War never changes and history repeats itself.
05/07/09
05/07/09
Before the Wii haters say anything, I just want to say:
GOOD JOB NINTENDO!
05/07/09
And they got there bay basically telling their core gamers to F@#k off because its the casual's that make them money now.
05/07/09
You see, I never had a thing against these "casual" gamers. I consider myself a "casual". But one thing we simply cannot afford is to have "casual" and "hardcore" be differed. Whenever an industry shifts away from either point, it suffers. It's what happened to comics, arcades, anime, and pretty much PC gaming in general. I don't want that to ever happen to consoles.
05/07/09
Speak for yourself. I'm a so-called "hardcore" gamer and I play my Wii on the reg. There's tons of good games out for the system now that I personally think are good. I'm not going to bother making list, cause it's pointless but yeah, speak for yourself.
05/07/09
05/07/09
We have Nintendo for your kids, and Sony/MS for the adults. People need to get over the 'great snes days' and realize that although I liked the n64, and the GC, in both cases if I was my age now, I would of bought a ps1 and ps2.
All the good games from the snes days were mostly thirdparty stuff. Capcom, Square, they still make great games. Just not on the wii.
Hardcore people should be buying a sony or ms console (or pc), and waiting for the end of the wii's cycle. Buy a wii when it's $150 or less and can say there is a good selection of games already released that I want to play - that justify that $150.
Nintendo - just like Disney doesn't grow up with you, they don't make 18+ movies. They make movies that although adults can enjoy, are mostly targeted at children - since children make them money and not adults.
05/07/09
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05/07/09
Seriously folks. How is it possible that gaming is moving mainstream and getting more recognition, more advertising, more development dollars, more respect, and yet gamers are pissed about it? Nintendo is just the most successful, they're not the only ones moving this medium to the masses.
05/07/09
The Wii may have many bases covered, but not all of them, and many of them aren't covered well enough. I don't know of any Western-style RPGs. The only JRPGs I know of are Baroque and Tales of Symphonia 2, which is about the same as covering that base with two inept guards. The only Tactical RPG I know of is Radiant Dawn, which is about the same as expecting one really good guard to secure an entire base. With the exception of MP3:C, all the FPSs have been average at best, which is a real shame considering the controller would be great for it. If you want a racer and don't care for Mario Kart, you'll be SOL - there are no good substitutes to Burnout, Forza, Gran Turismo, Pure, Grid or WipeOutHD. (And seriously, why hasn't there been an F-Zero on the Wii yet?)
05/07/09
That's not really "good" statistic-wise.
I'm not saying they themselves are not good games, but it pretty much does sum up the status of the console in most people's eyes (sadly): a system home solely to rehashes and ports.
Also, you forgot de Blob. That game was "de shit."
05/07/09
Change "waggle support" to "updated graphics" and you're describing the best games on the 360 and PS3. So what?
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