Chaos Space Marines were once loyal to the Emperor and to the Imperium. To put things in "perspective", Space Marines are much like the knights of medieval times. They were the exemplars, the elite, the best that humanity had to offer. 10,000 years prior to the main storyline of Warhammer 40,000, the Emperor had embarked on a great crusade to re-unite the galaxy and all of the lost human worlds. He created a dozen or so "Primarchs", supersoldiers that were based on his own DNA (the Emperor is immortal). The dark gods of the Warp - an alternate dimension used for FTL transit in between worlds - did not approve of this and scattered the Primarchs through the galaxy while they were still neonatal. Each Primarch grew to superhuman proportions and rose to be a leader of the world that they had been taken to. Chief among them was Horus. Meanwhile, the Emperor had used the Primarchs as the basic template for creating legions of super-soldiers, now known as Space Marines. Long story short, some of the neonatal Primarchs were touched by the Chaos Gods and slowly became corrupt. Horus - who rose to become the Warmaster of the Great Crusades and the Emperor's most trusted - fell ill on a world recently conquered and he became seduced by the Chaos Gods. Ultimately, over half of the Space Marine Legions turned to Chaos and fought against their own kind in what's now known in the game as the "Horus Heresy". They were barely defeated at the cost of the Emperor's life and they retreated into a realspace-warp space interface known as the "Eye of Terror". The Space Marines you play with in Dawn of War are centuries old and use the latest technologies the Imperium have to offer. But the Chaos Space Marines...most of them have lived on since the Horus Heresy 10,000 years prior to the main story setting because of the corrupting influence of Chaos. Chaos Marines have the benefit of millennia of combat expertise as well as being gifted with dark magics and even demonic possession.
@Courteous_Gentleman: I'll be honest, DoW2 always irritated me. I didn't care much for its small scale and Relic-style balancing (Relic-style being hopelessly-unbalanced-forever-style). Bad balance never bothered me in DoW1, but the current state of DoW2 is making blobs of melee troops for victory. Here's the part where I feel like a fanboy:
Including tau would totally make me overlook this and make me play this game.
In my opinion, Dawn of war 2 was a great single player game and a very flawed multiplayer game.
They took a great idea for the RTS game - focusing on combat and micromanagement - and spoiled it with certain game mechanics.
Certain game mechanics that make some units hard counters to other units. For those who don't know what that means, it means rock paper scissors.
I hope they overhaul the multiplayer in this expansion for soft counters over hard counters. That would mean certain units are effective against certain units, but superior micromanagement can even the odds for the player with the paper vs the one with the scissors.
Ehhh as much as I'm looking forward to this and most likely will buy it, I wish they had gone with a different race to be re-introduced. I'm not a big DoW buff so I dunno all the intracies of the races and such or if the story would even allow some of them, but I think the Necross would have been a better fit with how different they are from the current 4 races in place. Something MAJORLY different, I mean don't the chaos marines act a lot like regular marines in terms of their technology and style? Just more destructive and brutal, sort of a mid point between the space marines and Orks right?
Like I said though I'm not fully in-touch with how all the races work or their story so I may be wrong.
@Armagetiton: Choas is much older tech, as they have had few upgrades since the Horus Heresy. What they do have, as you said, is a lot of Warp-spawned units, such as demons, as well as some demonic tech. They also have the advantage of larger chapter sizes and swarms of mindless cultists who run interference or undermine planets before the main force arrives.
This looks cool. I would have so bought this and DoW2 if I had a computer that could run them. :(
On a side note, I wish I could hear more about that other Warhammer 40,000 action-adventure game they're making. Haven't heard any news on that in a while. Looking forward to it.
Unless they add some sort of base-building mode and a lot more units, count me out.
I loved Dawn of War, and I bought Winter Assault and Dark Crusade the moment they came out... but Dawn of War II for me was just lame.
I hate saying it because I was a huge fan of the first game and its expansions but I played the multiplayer beta and it felt so stripped down compared to the first game. I know a lot of people argue that base building is pointless and Dawn of War II focuses on the combat, but you barely have any units at your disposal either.
I guess that's the point... I'm obviously just missing something here but I really just don't get how it's in any way an advancement over the first game.
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Edited by KnightsofRound at 09/29/09 4:55 AM
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@KnightsofRound: The theory is it's more about the strategy of using a few units rather than build build build rush rush rush.
From that point of view, Dawn of War 2 is the only strategy game that doesn't boil down to building units as fast as you can then swamping the enemy base with them.
I wish they would not use the Black Legion. I know they did it for the army painter, but I still wish they would use someone else. Something non-Khorne preferably. Warhammer online was the first Warhammer game I remember that didn't use a chaos united type faction with mostly khorne demons, there needs to be more like that.
stop dicking us with content resets, game companies. you spend years creating expansion content for the first game for us to buy, then you take it all away in the sequel.
@Kayin: Well, if they were continuing the series, they would have had to create a new engine and innovate the game anyway, even if it wasn't right now. Dawn of War 1 has a huge amount of content with the main game and 3 great expansions. There's more than enough of the DoW1 styled gameplay there to satiate your desire for years to come.
DoW2 went in a different direction and in my opinion it was the right decision. It feels like a true sequal, a true evolution of the series and it offers something very different to DoW1 which means I'm not playing the same game all over again with a 2 slapped on the front.
I'll never get people with your view. Likely, you scream at Activision to stop releasing GH sequals every few months that are essentially the same game but when a developer truly innovates a series with a sequal, you scream at them. It's stupid
@-MasterDex-: Not really, the combat is taken from Company of Heroes, the retreat system, squad system, cover system, etc. Hell even the loading screen tips were almost complete copies from CoH as well since there were ones that applied to CoH but NOT DoW II (Tip for units being pinned, DoW 2 units cannot be pinned only suppressed.) but they fixed those eventually.
It's also not a new engine, simply an improved CoH engine. This game is not an evolution, stop calling it that.
One more thing, multiplayer balance is still a huge problem that allows for cheap tactics and race over skill in terms of equal 1v1 skill levels.
@acountddd: the combat is taken from Company of Heroes, the retreat system, squad system, cover system, etc.
The combat system evolved from the Company of Heroes combat system which itself evolved from the Dawn of War combat system.
It's also not a new engine, simply an improved CoH engine.
The improved CoH engine is the improved Dawn of War engine and at this stage, with all the additions to the engine, you could call it a different engine. For the record though, I never said DoW2 was on a new engine. I said, and I quote: "if they were continuing the series, they would have had to create a new engine and innovate the game anyway".
One more thing, multiplayer balance is still a huge problem that allows for cheap tactics and race over skill in terms of equal 1v1 skill levels.
Really? I haven't found myself having the same problem. The multiplayer certainly doesn't have the great balance of the first Dawn of War but I still find that matches are winnable with any race and good tactics.
This game is not an evolution, stop calling it that.
@-MasterDex-: I misread your comment about the engine thing so I apologize.
But to me for it to be an evolution it would have to have much larger changes. The combat system has barely evolved at all from CoH. If simply nudging things up a bit is called an evolution then you could call content patches an evolution but not a very BIG evolution. How has it evolved? In fact it's devolved since they have removed some features compared to CoH in order to streamline the game.
Also you never mentioned which perspective you were playing from. 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3? Right now the 1v1 game (with equal skill) is messed up and everyone knows it.
I've played DoW II competitively since release and was in the beta but have stopped playing recently due to GFWL giving me problems (which have also persisted since BETA).
Not saying it's a bad game, I like it because of it's simpler-to-get-into gameplay but I just feel it's not as innovative as you give it credit for.
I always used Chaos Marines in DOW, so I saw this and got really excited thinking it was going to be a Chaos sinple-player campaign but it's just a continuation of the Blood Raven storyline. Come on Relic I want to Fly around space pillaging and corrupting everything in my path not listening to a bunch of whiny steroid hulks fighting over who loves the Empeor best.
@Zallin: Honestly I think it will be a while before we get the less popular races in the game, however awesome they are. Gotta hit the basics first, knowwhatimean?
@Uncle_Uzi: While that is probably true, you should look at the stats for actual popularity again. Tau are one of the most popular tabletop races and they did pretty well after they came out in the original DoW, too. Tau ARE one of the basics, if you are going by usage statistics.
@-MasterDex-: I have no idea why Tau are popular, the only army duller in 40k are the Necrons and at least they have a few interesting things, Nightbringer etc.
Tau just bore me, both in terms of troop selection and painting them (Kroot are awesome tho)
Why no one plays dark eldar (or eldar) is beyond me... oh thats right they don't wear power armour and are a tiny bit tricky to learn... that said Bring back Squats!
@someone_else: Well, by that same logic Tau shouldn't be played either. I think a big part of the reason Tau attract people is they are the only race in the whole universe that could actually be called "good guys" with a straight face. I know personally I don't enjoy the idea of playing cultish warmongers like the Space Marines, the Eldar are just as xenophobic as the SM, and most of the other races are just black and white stereotype evil. Of course, I also like the Tau because the whole overwhelming ranged power with crappy armor(glass cannon) is a power balance that appeals to me. I just think something like that actually has a distinct niche in DoW II that is unfilled, whereas they are really going to have to fiddle with Chaos, choose specific units, etc. to make them distinct from the SM already in the game.
@Archaneus: Hmmm, I would agree with what you say, but I just find them a bit dull... although as I said before that is more due to choices withing the army,
But I would disagree that the other races are black/white stereotypes.
Orks for example are not really evil, they just like fighting.
The only truely evil armies are Chaos and Dark Eldar, and then they are linked by Slaansh anyway,
Most of 40k and WFB really takes on shades of grey which is what makes it interesting.
But the tabletop game apart I totally agree Tau would be very distinct in DOWII wheras Chaos would just look like normal marines in dirty armour, if we are going on "troop choices"
But when we get into elites, then Plague marines, Noise Marines, Besrkers etc are very different,
Then you have obliterators etc, there is a lot of potental, just not with standart troop choices,
@Cptn.PaxtonAstypalaea(Corsair): Well, if the intention was to create a Chaos Marine that strikes the absolute core of terror within the human soul by its mere appearance, nigh shattering said soul within its freakish qualities, you have succeeded.
@Cptn.PaxtonAstypalaea(Corsair): I hope you are entering this at Games Day for a Golden Deamon award... I think you might just scoop the slayer sword... or not!
Out of interest did you use green stuff to convert this? because even though its not the greatest mod, getting used to green stuff means you can do some amazing things,
My first ever foray into green stuff was a Chaos Space wolves army (ok completely uncannon), I used dog/wolf heads from I cannot think what, and then sculpted a pelt of wolf hair from the head down the power army, looked pretty decent
09/29/09
09/30/09
And as far as Google tells me, it's not even a cut and paste job. Well done, sir/ma'am.
09/29/09
09/29/09
Including tau would totally make me overlook this and make me play this game.
09/29/09
09/29/09
They took a great idea for the RTS game - focusing on combat and micromanagement - and spoiled it with certain game mechanics.
Certain game mechanics that make some units hard counters to other units. For those who don't know what that means, it means rock paper scissors.
I hope they overhaul the multiplayer in this expansion for soft counters over hard counters. That would mean certain units are effective against certain units, but superior micromanagement can even the odds for the player with the paper vs the one with the scissors.
09/29/09
Like I said though I'm not fully in-touch with how all the races work or their story so I may be wrong.
09/29/09
Space marines are also more efficient in tactics - while chaos is just that, chaos.
I'm sure the only thing chaos marines and space marines will have in common in this game will be the basic marine squad.
09/29/09
09/29/09
On a side note, I wish I could hear more about that other Warhammer 40,000 action-adventure game they're making. Haven't heard any news on that in a while. Looking forward to it.
09/29/09
Bring on Chaos Rising :)
09/29/09
I loved Dawn of War, and I bought Winter Assault and Dark Crusade the moment they came out... but Dawn of War II for me was just lame.
I hate saying it because I was a huge fan of the first game and its expansions but I played the multiplayer beta and it felt so stripped down compared to the first game. I know a lot of people argue that base building is pointless and Dawn of War II focuses on the combat, but you barely have any units at your disposal either.
I guess that's the point... I'm obviously just missing something here but I really just don't get how it's in any way an advancement over the first game.
09/29/09
From that point of view, Dawn of War 2 is the only strategy game that doesn't boil down to building units as fast as you can then swamping the enemy base with them.
I like that :)
09/29/09
09/21/09
They didn't specifically say either word so I'm guessing expansion due to the singleplayer additions.
Eitherway, I'd love to have a crisis suit out on the battlefield some day, also looking forward to the steam deals on DOW2.
09/21/09
09/21/09
I wish they would not use the Black Legion. I know they did it for the army painter, but I still wish they would use someone else. Something non-Khorne preferably. Warhammer online was the first Warhammer game I remember that didn't use a chaos united type faction with mostly khorne demons, there needs to be more like that.
Slaanesh with early 90s noise marines, plz.
09/21/09
sims 3, i'm looking your way too.
09/21/09
DoW2 went in a different direction and in my opinion it was the right decision. It feels like a true sequal, a true evolution of the series and it offers something very different to DoW1 which means I'm not playing the same game all over again with a 2 slapped on the front.
I'll never get people with your view. Likely, you scream at Activision to stop releasing GH sequals every few months that are essentially the same game but when a developer truly innovates a series with a sequal, you scream at them. It's stupid
09/21/09
It's also not a new engine, simply an improved CoH engine. This game is not an evolution, stop calling it that.
One more thing, multiplayer balance is still a huge problem that allows for cheap tactics and race over skill in terms of equal 1v1 skill levels.
09/21/09
The combat system evolved from the Company of Heroes combat system which itself evolved from the Dawn of War combat system.
It's also not a new engine, simply an improved CoH engine.
The improved CoH engine is the improved Dawn of War engine and at this stage, with all the additions to the engine, you could call it a different engine. For the record though, I never said DoW2 was on a new engine. I said, and I quote: "if they were continuing the series, they would have had to create a new engine and innovate the game anyway".
One more thing, multiplayer balance is still a huge problem that allows for cheap tactics and race over skill in terms of equal 1v1 skill levels.
Really? I haven't found myself having the same problem. The multiplayer certainly doesn't have the great balance of the first Dawn of War but I still find that matches are winnable with any race and good tactics.
This game is not an evolution, stop calling it that.
An evolution is exactly what it is.
09/22/09
But to me for it to be an evolution it would have to have much larger changes. The combat system has barely evolved at all from CoH. If simply nudging things up a bit is called an evolution then you could call content patches an evolution but not a very BIG evolution. How has it evolved? In fact it's devolved since they have removed some features compared to CoH in order to streamline the game.
Also you never mentioned which perspective you were playing from. 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3? Right now the 1v1 game (with equal skill) is messed up and everyone knows it.
I've played DoW II competitively since release and was in the beta but have stopped playing recently due to GFWL giving me problems (which have also persisted since BETA).
Not saying it's a bad game, I like it because of it's simpler-to-get-into gameplay but I just feel it's not as innovative as you give it credit for.
09/21/09
09/21/09
I need to enforce the greater good :(
09/21/09
09/21/09
09/21/09
09/21/09
09/21/09
09/21/09
09/21/09
Tau just bore me, both in terms of troop selection and painting them (Kroot are awesome tho)
Why no one plays dark eldar (or eldar) is beyond me... oh thats right they don't wear power armour and are a tiny bit tricky to learn... that said Bring back Squats!
09/21/09
09/21/09
But I would disagree that the other races are black/white stereotypes.
Orks for example are not really evil, they just like fighting.
The only truely evil armies are Chaos and Dark Eldar, and then they are linked by Slaansh anyway,
Most of 40k and WFB really takes on shades of grey which is what makes it interesting.
But the tabletop game apart I totally agree Tau would be very distinct in DOWII wheras Chaos would just look like normal marines in dirty armour, if we are going on "troop choices"
But when we get into elites, then Plague marines, Noise Marines, Besrkers etc are very different,
Then you have obliterators etc, there is a lot of potental, just not with standart troop choices,
09/21/09
09/21/09
I once made a Magical Girl Chaos Space Marine.
My Local Games Workshop store at the time called it an Abomination.
Now You Can Be The Judge!
09/21/09
*Rolls*
Yeah, I kill it with Fire. WITH FIRE DAMMIT!
09/21/09
Blood for the blood god indeed.
09/21/09
09/21/09
09/21/09
Out of interest did you use green stuff to convert this? because even though its not the greatest mod, getting used to green stuff means you can do some amazing things,
My first ever foray into green stuff was a Chaos Space wolves army (ok completely uncannon), I used dog/wolf heads from I cannot think what, and then sculpted a pelt of wolf hair from the head down the power army, looked pretty decent
09/21/09
09/21/09
09/21/09
I also created:
-Gannondorf
-A Raptor
-Willium Birkin
-Hunk (from the RE2 bonus game)
and a couple fairly cool tanks.
This was many many years ago, and they are all in a bit of disrepair, as you can see above, I've lost her weapon.
I'll search around here for bits of bobs, and show photos in a week or two when it's safe for me to post in TAY again.
09/21/09
I CAPTURED IT FOR CHAOS!
and
MORE SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!!
09/21/09
09/21/09
I'm seeing Traitor Guard, Khorne-themed, led by an Aspiring Champion carrying a banner that proclaims, "Where mah skull?!"