Kotaku 
Enter your username and password.
Denver, 12:58 PM
Tue Dec 8
64 posts in the last 24 hours
Tip us:
Editor-In-Chief:
Brian Crecente
| AIM | Twitter
Deputy Editor:
Stephen Totilo
| AIM | Twitter
Senior Editor:
Michael McWhertor
| AIM | Twitter
Senior Contributing Editor, Japan:
Brian Ashcraft
| AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, East Coast:
Michael Fahey
| AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, Oceania:
Luke Plunkett
| AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, Weekends:
Owen Good
| AIM | Twitter
Correspondent, San Francisco:
AJ Glasser
| AIM | Twitter
Columnist:
Leigh Alexander
Columnist:
Tim Rogers
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
05/14/09
hahahahaha.. and what country have you been living in for the last eight years, dear?
You're so full of shit you wouldn't know where to start wiping your ass.
05/14/09
05/14/09
Capable, certainly. But examples of mainstream video games handling serious subject matter with respect and eloquence are few and far between. How many undead Nazis (or any other cannon fodder of choice) did we have to slaughter to produce just one moment like the nuke/Jackson scene from CoD4?
Don't get me wrong; games, like any other form of media, can never be just about the serious business. But until skilled handling of subject matter becomes far more prevalent than it is now, we can't expect the general public perception of video games to be anything other than it is: that video games are immature. And truly, the medium is immature.
05/14/09
I say let them release it and see how the public responds. We are supposed to be a free and capitalist society.
05/14/09
@Theoutlet: I disagree. As a genre, you could show the slightest bit of maturity in regards to basic human relationships before jumping into the "currently ongoing war" du jour. It's hard enough to get non-cringe inducing voice over in ANY genre, but now we are going to jump straight to the Iraq war?
05/14/09
I think we live in interesting times.
05/14/09
I'm just against any form of censorship when it's obvious that capitalism will decide this games fate.
05/14/09
Everyone has the right to voice their dissent and opinion and certainly the developers should take it in to consideration, but at no point should it result in the ultimate cancellation of the project. Which is exactly what happened here.
It's a form of censorship that shouldn't exist in our society.
05/14/09
To say that it can't be done because it hasn't been done before is a realistic and somewhat cynical response. Heck, it's even what my gut is telling me would have happened if the game was released, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been done. Who knows if they're the people to finally move us forward?
Well, now we'll never find out and I think we're poorer for it.
05/14/09
05/14/09
Just because the industry might be moving at a snail's pace doesn't mean that certain people within the industry aren't ready to tackle such a subject.
Stop confining the developers and let them take chances. How can you expect someone to grow when we keep pushing them back?
05/14/09
...it's a game that needs to see to see release, as Ian Bogost puts it, "if only to be another example of how to do things well or poorly."
As much as I hate to see a game try and fail to deal with mature subject matter, thus producing further scorn for an already battered medium, it might just be the only way we see progress. Learn from mistakes, and improve on things that have been done well.
05/14/09
05/14/09
When movies do attempt a serious treatment of war, there have been successes. As pointed out, Black Hawk Down is but one example. In mainstream gaming, however, we have but mere moments we can point to as examples of serious treatment of war. Movies, as a medium, are far more mature than video games.
05/14/09
Now more than ever it requires mainstream support and success when it comes to getting the support and money to take risks like this. With the already poor view video games have in the public eye, and the extremely scarce evidence that the industry is even capable of handling this subject matter, it seems kinda silly to jump this far ahead.
I'm not saying this game, or a game like it, should never get made. I'm just saying that I think the devs are jumping the gun by a good amount. This is an industry that can barely handle portraying romantic relationships well. Why devs would try to tackle the most highly debated/controversial military conflict since Vietnam while it's still underway is beyond me.
@SmilingPolitely: I understand what you're saying, but I just see this as being more detrimental than beneficial if it fails. And I see the probability of failure being very high.
To Atomic Games credi, they're probably one of the few, if not only developer out there capable of pulling this off. I haven't played the previous game they released, but from the little research I did apparently it did a very good job of focusing on the psychological effects of war on soldiers.
05/14/09
Something that stands out and demands attention. Something that shows yes, it can be done and that the rest of the industry has no excuse for not achieving the same level maturity.
I guess my argument is that change doesn't always happen slowly. Sometimes we need something dramatic to shake things up.
This could have been that thing.
Do I really think it was? Not really, but I really want that game to get made someday and I'm afraid it never will.
05/14/09
Unlike a lot of other commenters here, I can totally understand why people are upset. Most videogames are entertainment. When we say gameplay is king, we mean that having fun is the most important thing in a game. Very few modern games are willing to make the gamer endure negative things - boredom, frustration, despair etc. Most games, when you boil it down, are simply fun.
So no matter what reverence the cut-scenes and writing portray towards the troops and the war itself, the fact that once the gameplay starts it's probably meant to be fun, to be enjoyed - that is, in itself, offensive to those involved in this war. That the deaths of the enemies and allies around you are going to be gameplay mechanics designed for a players enjoyment. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with that myself.
I have more to say, but I've gotta go somewhere (dammit). Always surprised how reactionary some gamers can be. Like everything in life, this is no black and white issue.
05/14/09
05/14/09
The only difference between entertainment value between this and something like COD4 (which I will compare this game to) is that Six days in Fallujah reverts directly to the war in Iraq. You can't tell me that the Aerial invasion assault in COD4 isn't basically a fast paced version of "Operation Shock and Awe" that the Marines and Army were thrust into. COD4 has a ton of elements straight referenced out of experiences in Iraq.
Now that a game shows up with an official title, everyone goes up in arms about it. Personally I loved playing COD4 because I am a former Marine, and I got to say "Hey...I remember this helicopter, or this weapon, or this reminds me of something i've experienced".
Six Days if Fallujah has the potential to honor the service members who fell there and have great entertainment value.
s
I for one would be a Marine to play a game on an experience I went through. I'm proud of it and would love to see it in a video game.
05/14/09
Basically, it was worry that it WOULDn't honor the people who fought and fell there.
05/14/09
Yeah, I'm betting that a big part of the problem is that they paid insurgents for information pertaining to what happened there in Fallujah.
05/14/09
I must say that I do admire them trying to tell the story from both sides, but it does feel somewhat screwed up that they were paying people that essentially would love to see us wiped off of the map. Then again, our military had killed a good amount of civilians over there, and have destroyed a fair amount of stuff. Either way you look at it, this shit is fucked up.
05/14/09
05/14/09
05/16/09
Well that's good to hear that they weren't compensated.
05/14/09
05/14/09
05/14/09
05/14/09
05/14/09
Except in rare instances, death in a video game amounts to a -1 on some trivial counter and/or waiting for a respawn timer.
I truly believe that games are capable of conveying the horrors of real warfare, but thus far there are only mere moments where they've managed to do so.
05/14/09
I stand by my comment.
05/14/09
05/14/09
05/14/09
[en.wikipedia.org]
Its taught at every basic college english class. The second you attacked me instead of my argument you lost. The argument you continue to ignore. Thanks for playin though.
05/15/09
I didn't know I had to beat you over the head with it for you to realize it.
My mistake.
05/14/09
05/14/09
05/14/09
the comparison to movies is not even remotely accurate. i have not seen black hawk down but lets take any number of other war movies i enjoy and support from apocalypse now to rambo to jacob's ladder to the best years of our lives. all of those war movies (and all war movies i like) are about the psychological affects of war on vets or how war is bad, etc.
military video games are always pro-war and until there is one that isn't i'll never buy one. it's that simple.
05/14/09
05/14/09
Note* SPOILER WARNING! Contains basic info about MGS story line! :D*
During MGS, Natasha Romanenko, one of the field operatives helping Snake explains the horrors of nuclear weapons. The infiltration of Shadow Moses leaked information that a nuclear strike was imminent, thus pushing Snake to avert the threat.
In MGS2: Sons of Liberty, the main theme was 'governments' and 'power'. The characters heavily described how a massive culture can be controlled by memes, which Solidus sought to control against the Patriots' grasp on culture.
The Patriots are an organization created after the MGS3 Storyline by Major Zero, the commanding officer of Naked Snake during the Virtuous Mission and Operation Snake Eater. After defeating The Boss, Snake's mentor turned traitor to the U.S., he had taken over her title and became a war hero, and Zero in the background used his own fame to create the Patriots, an organization designed to capture all aspects of society by trapping it in their ideals and morals, and led a campaign against Snake (now titled "Big Boss") after he had split from FOX, the original team under Zero's command.
Behind the scenes, Revolver Ocelot ('Ocelot' and 'Liquid Ocelot' in early and later games) is secretly pushing an offensive, growing power for the Patriots by relaying information and scheming for a takeover of all fronts, which in the MGS4 storyline, becomes a strung out war-economy. The theme of MGS4 is based on anti-war and delivers a message of hope and tragedy during war. The world's economy turns to war for profiteering, as Private Militarized Companies (PMC's) seek to make money by funding in mercenaries (hidden theme I found: Corporations are corruptable.), and utilizing the latest in weapon technology, such as nanomachines and unmanned weaponry that highly influence how wars are fought.
Liquid has already established major factions (Preying Mantis, Raven Sword, Pieuvre Armament, Werewolf, and the Haven Troopers, all under the newly re-instated Outer Heaven, which was destroyed by Solid Snake in Metal Gear, originally Big Boss's creation. The lower factions under Outer Heaven and Liquid Ocelot's guise are controlled by 4 members of the BB Corp, or 'Beauty & Beast Corp.', which are women that are heavily affected by Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and have been brought up by Liquid to control his armies.) that have major control over the war-economy. Liquid Ocelot has kept a low profile, until Col. Campbell, commanding officer of Solid Snake during MGS, discovers information of his wearabouts. This is where the story begins and Snake hunts for Liquid, briefly catching glimpses of him and his plans during the story. The theme during the story is based around the idea that conflicts can be chosen, friendships made, war evaded, and is proven by the fact that during gameplay Snake's choices of fighting local rebel and insurgent groups can influence wether they will become allies... or enemies. The story ends leading to the destruction of the Patriots and freeing the world, for a while, from absolute control. The ending theme is based around the idea that genes are not as important as memes, and when you are gone there is always a legacy to leave behind.
:D
Took me a while to write this, some info may be wrong because I had written this quickly and off the top of my head, so please correct if possible, fellow commenters. :D
Also, the major theme is definitely not Anti-War, but in MGS3: Snake Eater, and MGS4: Sons of the Patriots, I would say it is, because: Cold War during MGS storyline, no-brainer, it's an 'anti-war' theme right there. MGS4 is just pure conflict. It is very sublime in showing how it is 'Anti-War', but it shows the gruesomeness of war and how war can escalate. The game shows the effects of PTST (Post-Traumatic-Stress), and an economic need for war.
The Call of Duty 4 theme, I would say is: 'War is based solely on secrets, and who keeps them. A secret for every leader is war for every city.' Interesting quote I just made. :D
05/14/09
05/14/09
05/14/09
05/14/09
I feel this will undoubtedly change, but we're not there yet.
05/14/09
Wait for the day when games will break out like Spike Lee did with his funky movies back in the 80's...
Then again, that took... 60 years from the birth of movies.
So, we might see mainstream stuff by the time we get Old.