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Denver, 11:19 AM
Sat Nov 14
44 posts in the last 24 hours
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09/22/09
09/22/09
national socialism is a very sensitive topic here, it's not easy to carry around the thought that your ancestors killed 6 million jews and terrorised all of europe and it's especially not easy to see when others don't take the topic seriously, for example in a zombie/black magic/big guns action shooter. you don't want someone to make a fun action game centered around your grandmothers painful death due to uncureable stomach cancer, do you?
also, would you say that the people who have a problem with the sambo/watermelon thing in scribblenauts are trying to forget about the discrimination of black people? believe me, the first to protest against public display of nazi symbolism in germany are jews and not the all ignorant germans who try to pretend that the holocaust never happened.
09/22/09
There is a huge difference though. It's not illegal to associate sambo and watermelons (even though it is in horribly bad taste). Freedom of speech ensures that all viewpoints, even the ones that are (or appear to be) wrong, receive an opportunity to be heard.
On the other hand, banning symbols of the Nazi regime only serve to preserve the strength of those symbols, and fear associated with them. I hate to go total geek on everybody here (because I can't think of a stronger example, except for Nazi symbolism), but when JK Rowling addresses the fact that the wizarding world refuses to mention Voldemort's name, it continues to give him power through fear. The same logic applies to Nazi symbolism. Items and articles that should be remembered in their context in history, are instead continually feared. It's as if the US had permanently banned display of the Union Jack. I think that we can all agree that such an action would have had rather adverse effects on the development of US/UK relations.
09/23/09
One day I was in Borders reading the preface to Mein Kampf. The preface was written by either a translator or historian, and they put into context the definition of freedom of speech, and why this freedom is more blurred someplace like Germany. It put the whole thing into perspective for me, and I'll be damned if I can't remember what it is. Generally breaking it down to: this event happened there. All of it. And recently, in a historical sense. I encourage anyone who is against this kind of censorship to go out and read it.
09/22/09
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09/22/09
You couldn't be more wrong.
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Disclaimer: I think holocaust deniers are idiots. But I don't think they should be criminals.
09/22/09
Really the game just reinforces the idea that Nazi=evil/bad.
09/22/09
For many Germans, fun and Nazi Germany just don't go that well together. Germans start learning about the holocaust when they're still in elementary school, and most students have visited at least one concentration camp by the time they graduate. Wherever you go, you're likely to be told that WWII and anything related to it is serious business.
This attitude is especially prevalent in the generation born immediately after WWII, a generation that still has a lot of influence in German politics. They're also the ones making the laws, obviously. When these people hear of swastikas being used in games, they will of course be horrified. To them, making Nazi Germany part of a Game trivializes Hitler's atrocities and goes against everything they were taught to believe in.
09/22/09
Hell, dumbass highschoolers who think they're cool carry confederate flags around frequently.
09/22/09
People may jump down my throat for this, but I myself am perfectly fine with my country's (Canada) current stance on, say, hate speech, for the record.
Eh.
09/22/09
This isn't likely to happen any time soon. But, 25 years from now, or 100 years, as society progresses, this may become a very minoritry view. Then, it would be very possible for this to be widely considered hate speech.
Now, advocating the murder of homosexuals I would not have protected, as that is advocating, well, a crime.
09/22/09
09/22/09
doesn't make it better, but it's different.
and at least we do acknowledge the genocide we're responsible for, unlike some nations...
09/22/09
09/22/09
Keep the Militiray-Industrial complex well oiled with the blood of the poor.
09/22/09
Maybe he's referring to Native Americans? Well, don't worry, that's all cool now. We put some in anti-littering ads, and always make sure to prefix the word "savages" with the word "noble."
09/22/09
Aww, look at the little Marxist. When daddy's money runs out, he'll figure things out.
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09/22/09
is it the one on the guy's chin?
sorry about the image... look below.
09/22/09
@KingDavid73: sorry about the crappy image.
09/22/09
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09/22/09
It happened.
Stop trying to pretend it didn't and get over it. What's worse is that a swastika isn't even an offensive symbol. It's like if they used a Fleur De Lis for a symbol and then we never used it on wedding cakes ever again.
09/22/09
I respect the law that says you can't display this symbol in public and think that's a very good idea, but I've always thought that banning it from fictional movies/games/images was a little bit of overkill, especially since it can appear in documentaries and historical/educational images, so folks can still walk into a bookstore or DVD store and see swastikas. Japan does much the same thing with the Imperial Japanese flag...its a little over-the-top.
I actually wish there'd be a public ban on the Confederate flag over here....I don't like it hanging over courthouses and whatnot, not because I hate the South, but because as an American I don't like the idea of states being allowed to fly the flag of a foreign nation (which is what the Confederacy was) in an official capacity. I'd feel the same way if a lot of states started using the Union Jack.
09/22/09
As for "a swastika isn't even an offensive symbol", it's the ideology that is embodied by the swastika which is offensive to the majority of people. I know that if someone were to hang swastikas on the graves of WWII soldiers then I would be offended to a degree that far exceeds what my reaction would be if they had hung Fleur de Lis symbols on those graves.
09/22/09
Activision is pulling the game, Germany is not. Pull your heads out, people.
09/22/09
The depiction of swastikas or similar symbols is only prohibited if the product has no educational or historical value (which, arguably, is usually the case for video games). The law is meant to combat trivialization of the nazi regime, not knowledge of it.
That said, I still think this law (along with the one criminalizing holocaust denial) is stupid and completely unnecessary. For some reason, many movies get a free pass (nobody cared about the swastikas in the Indiana Jones movies, for example), while games usually have no chance of being released if they feature even a single swastika.
09/22/09
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(sorry, MST3k flashbacks)
09/22/09
As for the game itself... I still don't know. The joy of Wolfenstein was that the supernatural/sci-fi elements were mixed in with an otherwise fairly normal WW2 shooter.
This one seems to be all supernatural all the time. Not sure if want.
Also, insert obligatory "lol censorship" here.
09/22/09
09/22/09
There's a network of computers out there called the internet. On this "internet", there are things called game previews and videos. Hence the "not sure if want" line: I watched the videos, read the previews, and drew the conclusion stated above.
Reading comprehension goes a long way, Skippy.
09/23/09
Your statement "The joy of Wolfenstein was that the supernatural/sci-fi elements were mixed in with an otherwise fairly normal WW2 shooter" implied to me that you played it but I guess you were referring to the previous games.
So, how does one connect to this thingy you call the "internet"???
09/22/09
People KNOW we had Nazi's in the past and banning a single symbol that is OLDER than the third Reich and not allowing any form of Nazi related content in many Games is stupid (especially when the Nazis are the enemy).
People won't just suddenly turn racist by playing a Game, I think this is especially ironic considering how serious they are about stuff like this while WHOLE Organizations (like the politic NPD Party) can do they thing and usually have little to nothing to worry about (there where some moves about dissolving them but it always failed).
Honestly I thing people turn racists due to bad upbringing or through falling in with the wrong crowd, the only way to fight that is with proper education.
Honestly sometimes I think of leaving the country, I just don't know where to go.
09/22/09