I love when old dungeons and raids are updated so that new players can experience them. However, I do wish that they offered a way to preserve the old content when doing this, as I'm sure this will wipe 60 Onyxia off the map as well as only being available to WotLK players.
I'll never forget fighting Onyxia to craft my Quel'Serrar sword as a warrior. That was a great quest, and fighting Onyxia was always a blast in the early days of WoW. I don't play WoW anymore (too time consuming), but I really enjoyed fighting Onyxia and running Molten Core.
I love how everyone in the comments is complaining about 'rehashed' content. It's not like it's a $39.99 expansion pack, it's not like you have to play it, it's just a little fun thing they're doing for the 5th year anniversary. It's free, it's optional, it's nostalgic.
I love when people complain about free stuff. It's hilarious.
'Here Steve, have a ball in a cup. You can use it, or not use it, whatever. I'll just set it right down over here and you can decide if you want to play with it or not, no worries.'
'BALL IN A CUP?! I DON'T WANT NO FUCKING BALL IN A CUP I AM FUCKING OUTRAGED THAT YOU WOULD GIVE ME A BALL IN A CUP. I AM INSULTED ON A DEEP PERSONAL LEVEL THAT YOU WOULD OFFER ME SOMETHING FREE OF CHARGE THAT IS ENTIRELY OPTIONAL. I'M STARTING AN ONLINE PETITION'
Seriously people, this is not 3.3. This is not the end-WotLK raid. This is a MINOR CONTENT PATCH, 3.2.2, with Onyxia being updated as a nice gift to the playerbase for the 5th anniversary.
I think all the people bitching need to take a look at the rest of the comments here, filled with people quite pleased and looking forward to taking on Onyxia again.
If there's one thing people say about WoW that I can't help agreeing with, it's that its players will whine about absolutely anything, no matter what. Grow up.
I had so much fun learning and raiding the Ony fight with my old WoW guild. Those were some of the best nights we had. I'll never, ever forget the night we downed her for the first time. We had one player standing. Ony had a sliver of health, a druid in bear form was all that stood, and she took her down alone.
I thought Vent was going to explode from the screaming. Good times.
If I wasn't so busy with being a husband and father, I'd be all over trying the new Ony fight, but I am glad that I don't have that WoW addiction any longer.
Didn't Blizz get the memo with Naxx? Rehashing old content isn't fun. At all. Ever. Clearing all of WotLK's raid content 3 days after the xpac went live in Sunwell gear with only 22 players because 90% of it was rehashed content should've sent the message home to Blizz.
What's next? Lv.80 C'Thun guarding the gates of Icecrown, being the first boss of the ICC raid? Rehashing old content is just poor design no matter how memorable the content or encounter was. See: Kael'thas.
@Kanji08: This is a present for the game's 5th anniversary. It's not "rehashing content". Would you prefer no new content in the *MINOR* patch of 3.2.2?
@WarlockSoL: Considering this is going to be a permanent part of the game from here after, then yes, it is rehashing old content. It's a boss. An old boss. It's being retuned as a Lv.80 raid encounter. What about that isn't rehashed?
If you're going to put the time and effort into retuning and implementing a new encounter in the game, at least make it something people will want to do rather than reusing something 90% of your userbase has solo'd.
@Kanji08:
Naxx got rehashed because hardly anyone saw it at 60. It was also supposed to be an entry level raid akin to Kara which is why it wasn't incredibly difficult. And of course if you do it with Sunwell raiders it's going to be even easier.
I think it's a bit eh that they're rehashing Ony though considering everyone and their mother has killed her though. Though at least it's short and they're not forcing me to go back to MC *shudder*.
@Kanji08: Didn't Blizz get the memo with Naxx? Rehashing old content isn't fun.
You and a handful of other old-school WoW players sent your memos, but they were lost in the giant pile of "OMG SO FUN" memos sent by the vastly more numerous newer players who had never seen this dungeon before.
@tawni: Oh yes, because I'm a GOOD WoW player, I have no life. Your logic is flawless. You should be ashamed to post on Kotaku with stereotypes like that. I'm good at the game. When new content comes out, yes, I probably play this game more than most people do for a couple of weeks. So yeah, for 1-3 weeks, depending on the content load, I turn into a WoW zombie for a bit.
But because of that, I then complete that content and get to reap the benefits by only having to log in for 3-4 hours every Tuesday. Even most casual players log more than 3-4 hours a week into the game, but clearly I'm the no lifer who spends 100% of my time in the game.
I'm sorry I play games for a challenge, to beat them, and to have fun. Playing with a group of crappy players who chain lightning bolts on Thorim or die to cthun beams on Mimiron is NOT a fun experience. (Imagine playing L4D with some idiot who tries to do everything by himself without communicating or any other FPS with a jackass who team kills. Same shit, but with WoW instead of console multiplayer games.)
The only time you'll see me log into WoW during non-raid hours is to farm repair money or do Arenas, but clearly none of that matters. 'Cuz I'm just a no life loser who plays too much. A few hours every tuesday and a few hours 1 other day a week to get 20-30 games in and do a couple dailies? That's like . . . 6 hours a week! Holy crap, how can I manage having a life with a hectic schedule like that?!? *rolls eyes*
@UltimatePancakeSensation: Even casuals complained about them rehashing Naxx. Even most level headed people echo'd, "Well, it's cool that I'll get to experience it as a raid instead of doing the Lv.60 version at 80, but it still seems like poor design to reuse an old raid." Maybe you should read the forums?
In any case, you've gone from counter-arguing me to insulting me, so it's clear you no longer have anything else to say. Maybe if you reply with a logical reason why Blizz should put the same manpower into reusing old content instead of new content ratjher than saying, "QQ you're just some hardcore WoW player. No one cares about your opinion." you'll actually have something worth posting on this site.
I'm sure this will end out with me seeming a bit more elitist than I am, but as a long time WoW PvE-focused player, I personally am NOT looking forward to this content.
In the Blue post that described this they also mentioned that she will be dropping a 310% speed mount, which is where my outrage lies.
Despite the fact that they didn't give the exact details on how/when the 310% speed mount will drop, I imagine it's likely going to be just a low drop chance off of her just like Azure/Blue was off of Malygos.
The reason why this bothers me is because thus far 310% speed flying mounts have only been attainable by (arguably) difficult and/or time-consuming feats. I worked hard pre-3.1 to earn my Black Proto-Drake, just has hard pre-3.2 for my Bronze Proto-Drake, and am still working into the current 3.2 patch for my Ironbound. It is quite upsetting to me to think that anyone can go kill a likely relatively easy boss (given this is for their 5th anniversary you can bet she'll be easy enough for everyone to down without too much hassle), pray really hard to the RNG gods, and win a 310% speed mount. I'm hoping there are more intricacies in place that just haven't been revealed yet about this.
Anyway, definitely not a show-stopper by any means. They did also say the mount would be modeled after her, which is probably going to be quite bad ass.
@Svv: We don't know anything about how to get the mount.
They did say that the encounter would be tailored to "mechanics more fitting to modern raiding". Something quite definitive of "modern raiding" is hard modes. My guess is that Onyxia will have a hard mode, possibly similar to Sartharion, with a chance at the 310% mount for the most difficult.
@Svv: Well, as someone who raided in a high-guild and was really into PvE for the first four years after WoW's release (I quit shortly before WotLK came out and never looked back) I really don't understand your outrage. A 310% speed cooler-than-protodrake mount dropped from a boss that everyone and their mother had killed (Though, he was admittedly the best tuned and most rewarding/difficult fight at the time of his inception, in my opinion.) by the end of Burning Crusade and it was still incredibly rare at the end of the day.
I wouldn't worry about your e-peen being hurt just yet.
@Svv: Agreed. 310% mounts are reserved for the best PvE'ers and the best PvP'ers. The only exception being the ultra-rare A'lar Mount. And, as you say, you know this content will be uber-easy to allow as many people as possible to play through it. At least Kael'Thas was so ridiculously hard for it's time that most people didn't even touch him, even after BT and Hyjal attunements were removed, thus increasing it's status as a rare flavor item rather than a fast mount for causals. And it was roughly the same for Malygos as well.
We're in the minority though, my friend. Casualcraft is taking over.
@magnakaiser: How many Al'ars have you seen? We have exactly two on my server and one of them was a transfer.
Now, how many Blue/Azure Drakes (even Black Grand War Mammoth if you want to compare any low-drop chance mount off of a raid boss)? TONS.
The reason Al'ar was (and still is) rare is because of the effort STILL in place required to get one. You said you quit, but running TK at 80 is still more effort and time consuming than doing 25man Malygos (though of course, Malygos' mount isn't 310%. My point is that just because it's a low chance off of a boss does NOT mean it will be rare).
Unless, as QualityJeverage suggested (which I hope he's right), they change the fight a decent amount I can foresee Onyxia being 'Malygos v2.0' in terms of easy to get to boss that drops a badass mount.
To be honest, I don't really care if a 'casual' obtains a 310% speed mount, what I do care about is HOW he obtains it.
Take the Violet Proto-drake, this is arguably the easiest 310% speed mount to get, but it's still not 'easy' nor is it something you can have just fall into your lap. You need to ensure you do all of the holiday events over the course of a year, and honestly I'm completely fine with that.
@tetracycloide: Agreed completely. I started raiding early in TBC, so I was never attuned, but after a while me and a few friends decided we would go get attuned to all of the vanilla raids and attempt 5-manning them. The Onyxia attunement took a whole day, it was horrendous.
The worst part about it, though, was the fact that we had attuned ourselves just about two weeks prior to the removal of the attunement requirement.
@tetracycloide: I dunno, way back in the day when no one had any idea what was going on with aggro and stuff she was a pretty hard fight. I still remember the calls...
"WANDS ONLY"
"OK DPS"
"STOP!!!"
"DEEP BREATH GET TO THE SIDESSSSS!!!"
That famous video was not far off from a normal Onyxia raid back in early '05....
@magnakaiser: Very true, and you bring up an interesting thought of how much different the average WoW player is today than they were years ago. I think this is actually where a lot of the 'World of Casualcraft' comments come from. A lot of WoW is exactly the same in terms of mechanics and general raid 'difficulty,' yet everyone seems to feel that it's easier.
Perhaps it's because raiders, in general, are more up to par than they were those many years ago?
@Svv: I am going to disagree with that. I was in a raid guild since release and during TBC the guild I was in (full of new players mostely) got sick of us old timers talking about how the bosses where easy. So with 25 level 70s in full raid gear we tried to do BWL. After doing this for 2 nights for 3 weeks we finally took down Vael. After that we stopped and the guild agreed that Vanilla WoW raids are much harder.
@Lincolnsbeard33: most of the encounters were tuned for 40 people though, not 25, and some things simply require more people to do well (the fist guy for example).
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I love when people complain about free stuff. It's hilarious.
'Here Steve, have a ball in a cup. You can use it, or not use it, whatever. I'll just set it right down over here and you can decide if you want to play with it or not, no worries.'
'BALL IN A CUP?! I DON'T WANT NO FUCKING BALL IN A CUP I AM FUCKING OUTRAGED THAT YOU WOULD GIVE ME A BALL IN A CUP. I AM INSULTED ON A DEEP PERSONAL LEVEL THAT YOU WOULD OFFER ME SOMETHING FREE OF CHARGE THAT IS ENTIRELY OPTIONAL. I'M STARTING AN ONLINE PETITION'
I think that about sums it up.
08/13/09
I think all the people bitching need to take a look at the rest of the comments here, filled with people quite pleased and looking forward to taking on Onyxia again.
If there's one thing people say about WoW that I can't help agreeing with, it's that its players will whine about absolutely anything, no matter what. Grow up.
08/13/09
I thought Vent was going to explode from the screaming. Good times.
If I wasn't so busy with being a husband and father, I'd be all over trying the new Ony fight, but I am glad that I don't have that WoW addiction any longer.
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What's next? Lv.80 C'Thun guarding the gates of Icecrown, being the first boss of the ICC raid? Rehashing old content is just poor design no matter how memorable the content or encounter was. See: Kael'thas.
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[dictionary.reference.com]
If you're going to put the time and effort into retuning and implementing a new encounter in the game, at least make it something people will want to do rather than reusing something 90% of your userbase has solo'd.
08/13/09
Naxx got rehashed because hardly anyone saw it at 60. It was also supposed to be an entry level raid akin to Kara which is why it wasn't incredibly difficult. And of course if you do it with Sunwell raiders it's going to be even easier.
I think it's a bit eh that they're rehashing Ony though considering everyone and their mother has killed her though. Though at least it's short and they're not forcing me to go back to MC *shudder*.
08/14/09
You and a handful of other old-school WoW players sent your memos, but they were lost in the giant pile of "OMG SO FUN" memos sent by the vastly more numerous newer players who had never seen this dungeon before.
08/14/09
But because of that, I then complete that content and get to reap the benefits by only having to log in for 3-4 hours every Tuesday. Even most casual players log more than 3-4 hours a week into the game, but clearly I'm the no lifer who spends 100% of my time in the game.
I'm sorry I play games for a challenge, to beat them, and to have fun. Playing with a group of crappy players who chain lightning bolts on Thorim or die to cthun beams on Mimiron is NOT a fun experience. (Imagine playing L4D with some idiot who tries to do everything by himself without communicating or any other FPS with a jackass who team kills. Same shit, but with WoW instead of console multiplayer games.)
The only time you'll see me log into WoW during non-raid hours is to farm repair money or do Arenas, but clearly none of that matters. 'Cuz I'm just a no life loser who plays too much. A few hours every tuesday and a few hours 1 other day a week to get 20-30 games in and do a couple dailies? That's like . . . 6 hours a week! Holy crap, how can I manage having a life with a hectic schedule like that?!? *rolls eyes*
@UltimatePancakeSensation: Even casuals complained about them rehashing Naxx. Even most level headed people echo'd, "Well, it's cool that I'll get to experience it as a raid instead of doing the Lv.60 version at 80, but it still seems like poor design to reuse an old raid." Maybe you should read the forums?
In any case, you've gone from counter-arguing me to insulting me, so it's clear you no longer have anything else to say. Maybe if you reply with a logical reason why Blizz should put the same manpower into reusing old content instead of new content ratjher than saying, "QQ you're just some hardcore WoW player. No one cares about your opinion." you'll actually have something worth posting on this site.
08/13/09
In the Blue post that described this they also mentioned that she will be dropping a 310% speed mount, which is where my outrage lies.
Despite the fact that they didn't give the exact details on how/when the 310% speed mount will drop, I imagine it's likely going to be just a low drop chance off of her just like Azure/Blue was off of Malygos.
The reason why this bothers me is because thus far 310% speed flying mounts have only been attainable by (arguably) difficult and/or time-consuming feats. I worked hard pre-3.1 to earn my Black Proto-Drake, just has hard pre-3.2 for my Bronze Proto-Drake, and am still working into the current 3.2 patch for my Ironbound. It is quite upsetting to me to think that anyone can go kill a likely relatively easy boss (given this is for their 5th anniversary you can bet she'll be easy enough for everyone to down without too much hassle), pray really hard to the RNG gods, and win a 310% speed mount. I'm hoping there are more intricacies in place that just haven't been revealed yet about this.
Anyway, definitely not a show-stopper by any means. They did also say the mount would be modeled after her, which is probably going to be quite bad ass.
08/13/09
They did say that the encounter would be tailored to "mechanics more fitting to modern raiding". Something quite definitive of "modern raiding" is hard modes. My guess is that Onyxia will have a hard mode, possibly similar to Sartharion, with a chance at the 310% mount for the most difficult.
08/13/09
I wouldn't worry about your e-peen being hurt just yet.
08/13/09
We're in the minority though, my friend. Casualcraft is taking over.
08/13/09
Now, how many Blue/Azure Drakes (even Black Grand War Mammoth if you want to compare any low-drop chance mount off of a raid boss)? TONS.
The reason Al'ar was (and still is) rare is because of the effort STILL in place required to get one. You said you quit, but running TK at 80 is still more effort and time consuming than doing 25man Malygos (though of course, Malygos' mount isn't 310%. My point is that just because it's a low chance off of a boss does NOT mean it will be rare).
Unless, as QualityJeverage suggested (which I hope he's right), they change the fight a decent amount I can foresee Onyxia being 'Malygos v2.0' in terms of easy to get to boss that drops a badass mount.
But you're right, I am jumping to conclusions.
08/13/09
To be honest, I don't really care if a 'casual' obtains a 310% speed mount, what I do care about is HOW he obtains it.
Take the Violet Proto-drake, this is arguably the easiest 310% speed mount to get, but it's still not 'easy' nor is it something you can have just fall into your lap. You need to ensure you do all of the holiday events over the course of a year, and honestly I'm completely fine with that.
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The worst part about it, though, was the fact that we had attuned ourselves just about two weeks prior to the removal of the attunement requirement.
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"WANDS ONLY"
"OK DPS"
"STOP!!!"
"DEEP BREATH GET TO THE SIDESSSSS!!!"
That famous video was not far off from a normal Onyxia raid back in early '05....
08/13/09
Perhaps it's because raiders, in general, are more up to par than they were those many years ago?
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Must resist owning Onyxia!
08/13/09
Oh wait... wrong game.