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Denver, 1:40 PM
Mon Nov 30
25 posts in the last 24 hours
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09/17/09
09/16/09
09/16/09
We SHOULD be living in a society by now where it does not matter what colour the character is, as long as it is a human being we can relate to them. Matter of fact i would even go as far to say that people who have the same views as Fergus Mills are the racists because what wrong with playing a white guy?? Don't you like white guys??
09/16/09
IF you really want a hamburger because they've served nothing but hot dogs at your cafeteria for the past 10 years, that doesn't mean you're racist against hot dogs.
Similarly mills never said that he hated playing as white characters. He stated that he would also like to play as characters of other races. Ie: In addition to.
Secondly since this issue is apparently in the past, name me five black protagonist and 5 hispanic protagonist in gaming.
Man i really want to post that game overthinker video again.
09/16/09
Well I have some news for you who do think that FYI. I'm black and a woman, I don't play sports games, I abhor them. I prefer First Person Shooters like KillZone 2 and RPGs and Fighting games. Most of the time I'm stereotyped by console companies like Sony with their "Girlz Play Gamez Too!" marketing for the PSP as if all "Girlz" want to have a freaking PINK PSP. Wow really? Thanks for putting me in a box Sony, I guess I must also want to purchase all your SingStar games too huh? Anyways...my point is that we shouldn't be stereotyping people by racial or sexual gender, but it's clear from what I've been reading, most of you guys didn't get that from the article and continued to do so.
09/16/09
::What could be marketed more to Hispanic gamers? "Well, racing games," said Andreas Almodovar, 28, of Oldsmar, Fla. "We love getting into the car industry, love customizing our cars."
Something tells me all hispanic gamers don't want to "tune their lowrider" to save the princess. I catch the same thing when I am at GameStop, they are always asking me if I want to pre-order Madden XX or if I'm there for the new Basketball game. They ask me that because they want to sell me something, not because I'm a white guy.
09/16/09
Your last paragraph I can understand where you are coming from, although in this case it's a matter of perspective. I see, from how you put it as not about race but about selling something.
I have seen that taken place so I will acknowledge that but I've seen it where it is based on race, gender, or social-economic status. Now it would be great if all retail stores were like the Gamestop where you go to and don't do that, but due to the focus on sales from marketing research groups and their findings on "target demographics" this will continue to go on. This is especially evident during the seasonal shopping part of the year.
09/16/09
And Saints Row 2 has to be, hands down, the biggest game in terms of breaking racial and sexual barriers. Both normal citizens, and opposing gang members, are completely auto-generated and full of men and women of all races (available in the game.) Every single person in that game is on an equal playing field.
Plus, Michael Dorn voiced a guy who I think was white. Way to go Volition!
09/16/09
I will be very, VERY impressed when I see a game that allows full character creation, including accent, posture, background, and other cultural diffs AND still do a good job of putting the spotlight on the character's personality, focusing on values and similarities of all cultures in america/europe so that no matter what you choose, you can still identify. That would be not only breaking down barriers, but also making a statement about racism in general.
I think the auto generation in SR2 is smart, but only in the "simple solution to a common problem" kind of way. Autogen characters are nothing new, but that's a somewhat smart use of it.
09/17/09
And SR2 did more than just the autogen, you as a player could choose the voice and the walking style. So in essense you are choosing the character customization you are asking for.
The only thing it doesn't cover is background. But how the hell do you intend to include that? I still stand by the idiom of keep it simple (KISS) in that if you include more information than is necessary, then what was even the point?
This article wasn't written solely based on games with narratives. This transcends more than that. And if a game has no narrative, and no major character development, then what is the point of delving into more than what the skin color (and possibly movement style) of the character is?
09/16/09
What I'm getting at is that there is no way to act white. White is not a behaviour; it's the end result of genetics and evolution. I can't speak for certain because I'm white myself, but I would also assume it rings true for other races as well.
My girlfriend is of Chinese descent, but has pretty much lived in New Zealand her whole life. Unfortunately, people expect her to act a certain way because she is Asian. That, in my mind, is real racism.
09/16/09
But there is obviously no reason why those habits must be restricted to people of a certain skin colour or bone structure. And there is no reason why people who do have that colour of skin should be expected to share in those habits. Just because you can pick out a general correlation doesn't mean there's a causality at work.
My grandmother was Irish, and could only last about 30 seconds in the sun, but she lived in India for 10 years, and thus many aspects of 'Indian' culture - food, music, literature, etc. - were an everyday part of her life. The fact that she didn't 'look Indian' is irrelevant.
So if you understand that, I think the more important point comes out, which is that people need to see their own culture portrayed in the media, and just shoehorning in people of different skin colours isn't good enough. I have half Irish and half West African heritage. Seeing people with my pale brown shade of skin in games matters little to me. But if I saw a really insightful portrayal of Irish culture, or Sierra Leonean culture, or of the experience of post-colonial immigration, for example, then I would be seeing something that really tapped into the identity of my heritage.
09/15/09
09/16/09
09/16/09
09/15/09
Static Shock.
If you haven't seen the cartoon look it up, I'm sure you'll understand after watching a few episodes. It does a good job at having what this article feels the videogame industry is lacking.
09/16/09
It's funny you mention Static Shock though as McDuffie gets so much flack for using the black Green Lantern and has an unwarranted reputation for "blackening" the DC Universe ever since. Nevermind that he's a great writer and mind in the industry as all that takes a back seat to him, Bruce Timm, and company going with John Stewart for the sake of diversity over Hal Jordan.
09/15/09
I live in a black-majority country, and work in a store that sells video games. That's pretty much what most young men ask for.
09/16/09
I'm half-black/half-Mexican (though most consider me black) and I'm not much into sports games. After I fell in love with RPGs (FFVI FTW) I played little else for a long time. I had a lot of catching up to do. Eventually, I began to deviate into other areas, mainly through games like MGS and Castlevania: SotN
I don't really care if there is a black person in a game or not. Though, the lack of a black character is noticed. I grew up in an all Mexican neighborhood, then pretty much all white neighborhoods, so I'm used to being THE black guy.
The fact is, there are more white people than pretty much anything else, and thus, a white main character is what most people who play the game will be able to identify with. It's not racist, it's reality. The occasional game starring a black or Latino character is nice, but will be the exception. GTA: SA showed that it can be done and accepted, but it won't become the norm.
I listen to rap music (along with a crap-ton of other genres), wear baggy clothes, and all that, but I hate to see that being the exclusive type of black characters in games. Though, I have to admit, we do little to shirk the image that we currently have. We glorify the "gangsta" lifestyle in music and media, then cry about the fact that that's how people see us.
09/15/09
"Guile is white but I don't move like him"
See how lame that comes off as?
09/15/09
09/16/09
09/15/09
09/15/09
I agree as well!
09/15/09
I have no idea how this slipped through, but the message in this quote is extremely disturbing. Basically it implies that people from white group are some kind of sub-humans incapable of naturally accepting other races, except through the means of series of physiological experiments, involving repeated exposure to correct images. Like if they are talking about lab rats.
09/15/09
09/15/09
09/16/09
And, by extension, if the kind of depictions of various communities that people are being subjected to through the media are taken to be problematically inaccurate, then it might be worth considering how those depictions might be altered in future to paint a more realistic, less stereotyped picture. That applies to depictions of people from any ethnic group.
I believe that's all that is being said in the article.
09/15/09
I understand some games are more part of the character than others but speaking purely from an animators eyes we simply try to deliver the most visually appealing thing to the screen.
I could easily go into more depth with that but just want to get the main point across.
09/15/09
"Someone pointed out that on shows like Fresh Prince of Bel-Air white people were made fun of, but I think that's acceptable as it's only one representation of white people. Every other show on the air has accurate representations of them and that's what everyone sees 99% of the time. If Fresh Prince does that (and honestly I don't think I've ever really seen it in that show, admittedly I haven't seen every episode) it is quite rare and doesn't form the core of the show by any means."
I'm sick of this, personally. Why is it okay to make fun of white people in black shows? How is that okay but you can't make fun of black people in white shows? No, 99% of the time white people are NOT accurately portrayed on TV. Let me list a few you may have heard of. The Simpsons. Arrested Development. South Park. Malcolm in the Middle. Melrose Place. Firefly.
You know what is one of my favorite episodes of Malcolm in the Middle? When the grandmother comes to visit, and she is afraid of black people. So they ask their black neighbors to come over to scare her away. The neighbors are highly educated, refined black people, who don't even really know how to act ghetto. It brought across the point that ghetto isn't about being black, and being black isn't about being ghetto. Even Louis from Left 4 Dead has his moments (the biggest I can think of "Aw, hell naw!") where he shows some stereotype.
I'm sorry but I've just had it up to here with this reverse racism. Yes, it is racism if you think it's bad to do it to black people but oklay to do it to white people. When is the last time you saw a "white" show which made fun of stereotypical tv-black people? But on every black and hispanic tv series I've seen it comes up. So grow up. Either have the same values and treat everyone equally- and that means everyone gets made fun of- or stop whining.
Nobody complains that all of Romero's zombie movies have a strong black lead. Nobody complains when James Earl Jones is in- well, anything really. Morgan Freeman, Sidney Poitie, Denzel Washington and more are all A-list actors. So let me have my occasional Superman or Spiderman. You know why they work? Because they're amazing people first, and white second (if not third, fourth, fifth, etc.). You want a black superhero? Fine. Make him be a superhero first and black second. Then you'll make a popular movie. But when you make it the other way around, you know what you get?
Meteor Man. And you don't want to be Meteor Man.
09/15/09
To reiterate, and this is an optimistic assumption, what people fail to realize is that a majority of people (not just white) who play games recognize the character for what they stand for (e.g. hero and their values), not necessarily what they look like.
However, how they move and how they act may be noticed, and may help contribute to a certain ethnic styling (as the article points out, Avatars don't move like black people).
Then again, I find it funny how people don't seem to have an issue that the majority don't see ethnic issues (indeed they look beyond), but it's only a small percentage of ethnically-sensitive people who have issues with ethnicities is games. Everyone else just wants to play a game.
All I want is a relatively normal acting/moving character (neutral) that carries certain values I would like to play as (whether they're the same or the complete opposite). Doesn't matter what their skin color, gender, or sexuality are as long as it doesn't define them (L4D's Louis would be a good example of a "neutral character who happens to be black). Another good example of this? Dumbledore. The guys a bad-ass and it wasn't revealed until after the books that he's homosexual. Does that make him any less of a bad-ass? No. He's simply a bad-ass who also happens to be homosexual.
When ethnicity or sexuality define the characters in games, they tend to unfortunately become stereotypes that aren't very interesting or worth playing either with or as.
P.S. I enjoyed Meteor Man, granted I haven't seen it in 15-odd years when I was much younger.... course, I didn't really notice ethnic issues then. I grew up with a lot of sitcoms of diverse quality: Cosby Show, Fresh Prince, Simpsons, Step by Step, Full House, the Dinosaurs, etc. etc. name a mid-early 90s sitcom. They were simply families back then, not defined by ethnicity; hell, none of them were terribly accurate anyway, for blacks or whites (seriously, look at the shitty families in those white shows, would you want to be a part of them? Hell naw).
09/15/09
As a black person, that doesn't really bug me because like I mentioned before, video games are made by and marketed for whites who make up a large portion of it's consumer base... so it only makes sense that whites are portrayed as the heroes in video games. If I go to China I can't really complain to the media that all the main characters are Chinese and therefor "racist" to people like me.
On the otherhand... there is a lack of Black characters in video games who don't fit into an undesirable stereotype. I think that's what the real issue is. It isn't necessarily "racist," but definately I would agree that it's an unfair portrayal.
09/15/09
Black people get the same stereotype.
Especially any character played by samuel l jackson
09/16/09