physics - Kotaku

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So, the Haystacks of Assassin's Creed II - Are They Any Bigger?
Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
Fight Night 4 Is Realistically Slimy
Sunday Timewaster: Dropping the Ball
OLPC Physics Game Jam
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A Half-Life 2 Mod and a History of Video Game Physics
'Phun': A 2D Physics Playground
Science Is Fun! Half-Life, Portal, and Science
Crysis Physics Porn

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Boom-Chicka-Ah: Here to Create a Star Commenter Empire
11/19/09

In reply to So, the Haystacks of Assassin's Creed II - Are They Any Bigger?
Aren't video games made to escape the real world?
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Trey
11/19/09

@Boom-Chicka-Ah: Here to Create a Star Commenter Empire: AC2 is still a game that is grounded in reality more or less (gravity and such).
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Legion329
11/19/09

@Trey: You're an assassin who sits in a machine that lets him relive the memories of past assassins! This game is not grounded in reality AT ALL.
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Trey
11/19/09

@Legion329: Well, when Ezio jumps up and comes back down, it's because of physics. Same thing as jumping into a small haystack from twenty stories up and not crashing right though it.

It's a small thing anyways, but Assassin's Creed does have realistic attributes to it, however fictitious and spectacular it may be.
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Boom-Chicka-Ah: Here to Create a Star Commenter Empire
11/19/09

@Trey: SCREW THAT! I want ezio to have a gun that shoot shurikens and lightning! SHURIKENS AND LIGHTNING!!
...
SHURIKENS ON FIRE!!

#speakup
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Legion329
11/19/09

@Trey: In the context of the game, when Ezio jumps up and comes back down it's because that's what the Animus is coded to do.

I do see what you're saying, though; I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

#speakup
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Trey
11/20/09

@Legion329: Oh, you're right, it's no big deal of course. Not at all.

#speakup
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Trey
11/20/09

@Boom-Chicka-Ah: Here to Create a Star Commenter Empire: That is completely reasonable.

#speakup
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QualityJeverage
11/19/09

In reply to So, the Haystacks of Assassin's Creed II - Are They Any Bigger?
AC2 is still more physically plausible than the original, in that hanging platforms now, you know, actually hang and move around.

Either way, I'd rather they fix the weird animation bug when jumping from high places into haystacks: Where Ezio appears to be a few feet off target, but then snaps back and lands cleanly at the last second. It happened in the last game too...
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Malfunktion v2
11/20/09

@QualityJeverage: I found it funny that those things swing around, but the ropes connecting some buildings are perfectly static. I had no idea woven steel was invented in the 1400s.
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(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid!
11/19/09

In reply to So, the Haystacks of Assassin's Creed II - Are They Any Bigger?
It's a good thing physics was his first kill.
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Evdor
11/19/09

In reply to So, the Haystacks of Assassin's Creed II - Are They Any Bigger?
You know, I'm also pretty sure it's physically impossible for an artifact to possess the power to control people's thoughts or whatever the Macguffin was for the first game too, while we're discussing implausibilities.

Plus, it ignores how implausible it is that he blends in with anything. "Hey Bob, what's with that Monk decked out in harnesses and combat gear?" "Maybe he's new." "Oh well, stop looking for that guy that killed our Lord."
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Liptons
11/19/09

In reply to So, the Haystacks of Assassin's Creed II - Are They Any Bigger?
Logic is for pussies.
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PapaBear434
11/19/09

@Liptons:

Mrs. Palin, please refrain from using profanities. Your children are present.
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maex
06/28/09

In reply to Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
Hey everyone, if any of you are still watching these comments, looks like one fan went and created a Mythbusters post suggesting they get to the bottom of just how big a haystack would have to be to stop you. [community.discovery.com]
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fulldamage
06/24/09

In reply to Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
I could spend hours thinking about this kind of thing. ^_^ Thanks, awesome article.
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maex
06/24/09

@fulldamage: It was a lot of fun to figure out. At least the AC stuff, Owen did the rest of the work.
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Morkath
06/24/09

In reply to Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
Only problem with the speed study, I believe the game slowed you down as you were crossing bridges, in order to give itself more time to load the next zone, did it not?
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Owen Good
06/24/09

@Morkath: Not in the version I was playing. Believe me that would have rendered this examination inoperable.
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MrBionic
06/24/09

In reply to Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
This is all entirely too much thinking for me.

I don't play games in order to think.
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geekgrrl
06/24/09

In reply to Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
video games + real life physics = pure awesome.
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mshimer5
06/24/09

In reply to Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
At the risk of sounding "nit-picky", there are some issues with the "momentum" arguments. First of all, your assuming one must touch the ground with 0 velocity. This shouldn't be necessary, the ground does have stopping power, and you won't die if you have a non-zero velocity. Also, why use bungie cords? Bungie cords utilize an elastic force (one that scales with distance from equilibrium). A hay stack, as far as I know, would provide more of a constant force. At the very least, it wouldn't be a linear force. I know this is all for fun and all, but...just saying.
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maex
06/24/09

We chose bungees for a couple of reasons. First, the available information on the compressibility of hay and its ability to stop a falling body is pretty much nothing. We reasoned that a large pile of hay would behave more like a bungee (with the force coming from a different direction) than just a straight, linear deceleration. Also, there are a few assumptions that other people have already pointed out. Yeah, I could have assumed he would hit the ground with a non-zero velocity, that was just an attempt to make things simpler.

In reality, I was thinking that a haystack wouldn't have the linear relationship between stopping force and height that I used in making my calculations (so not anything like a bungee). However, Hooke's law provided a reasonable analog for the sake of argument. I think that it would be a logarithmic trend; at some point you would start to see a decrease in effectiveness of the next foot of hay you added.

It was fun to do and if anyone has any ideas about how they would do it, please tell me. It isn't very often my nerdy love of science and video games intersect.
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mshimer5
06/24/09

I would have assumed the hay acted as a drag force. I think that would have been a much better, albeit not the best, approximation then hooke's law. The only thing that Hooke's law would correctly approximate is the fact that the force is resistive. And as you say, you may see some sort of diminishing returns, Hooke's law is the opposite. The force only GROWS in strength, linearly, with distance.

The way I think of this is not that the hay is providing some sort of stopping force, but rather the object (here it would be the jumper) would be transferring energy to the hay. A drag like force would then be the most logical choice to try first. I guess this line of thinking comes from my love of Lagrangian mechanics over Newtonian.
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maex
06/24/09

@mshimer5: I used Hooke's primarily because it gave me a convenient way to estimate the distances and heights. I've no doubt there are much better ways to model it, though the most fun and accurate would be dropping a dummy into piles of hay (Mythbusters......)

Not a bad idea, using it as a drag force. What can I say? I'm a chemist first, and a physics nerd much further down the line.
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mshimer5
06/24/09

@maex: And I'm a physicist... :)

I see your point with the distances/heights; however, you could have just as easily forgotten about force and did a purely energy argument: you start out with all potential then as you fall you gain kinetic. You see how much energy must be dissipated by the "drag" force (aka hay). This will tell you how high the hay would have to be. That would be my take.

Also, I'm glad to hear that chemist at least appreciates physics. I have taught many chemistry majors who ask me "Why do I have to learn physics?" So, keep up your interest in physics :)
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maex
06/25/09

@mshimer5: Ha! You were certainly more qualified to answer it than me!

I like your method, seems more elegant than the one I used. The only question is, what value would one assign to hay? (Also, I learned that in reality, a haystack as a cushion is an awful idea, as most of them have trees or vertical logs supporting them)

I love physics, it's a shame my college professors tried to ruin it.
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Koztah
06/24/09

In reply to Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
The excuses Todd Howard makes with regards to ammo and meds not weighing anything reek, in all honesty.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed FO3 quite a bit, and I still am. But Fallout 1 and 2, some of the most highly praised PC games in history, did factor in ammo and med weights and it didn't cripple the game or the fun one iota. If anything, it grounded you in the world, as you had to set up stashes for extra supplies - much like the house/apartment in FO3 grounds you in the world.
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Antiterra
06/24/09

In reply to Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
When I explain to people why I love Kotaku, I always mention the Pac-Man "study" and the feature on Objectivism to describe how varied the content is.

Well, this is yet another Kotaku masterpiece. It must have taken days to figure out all that data.

I don't want to say "You did goode, Owen", because it's very, very lame - but on the other hand, you did do good... Three thumbs up (including that extra one I got on my field trip to Tchernobyl).
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jeremyschultz
06/24/09

In reply to Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
I always wondered about Altair and the hay, it never made sense to me that a piddling hay cart could stop such freefalls.

Great article, thank you!
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Omnimon
06/24/09

@jeremyschultz: Really, you wondered? You didn't just know it was an exaggeration for a video game?

C'mon!
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Zer033
06/24/09

In reply to Kotaku Bureau of Weights & Measures Studies Fallout, Physics, Also Beer
I think you could have taken the GTA San Andreas measurements easier by looking at game stats. I believe it shows how much you've run/driven so you could have just drove and seen how much the counter went up.
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Owen Good
06/24/09

@Zer033: Good point. I guess I could have started over and spawned a vehicle. The problem is I wouldn't know how far I'd traveled without stopping, pausing and looking at the stats to see if it was long enough. Besides, this was more fun.
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