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Denver, 4:44 AM
Fri Nov 27
29 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/21/09
It's a shame most gamers had to first hear of them over MadWorld, but then again that's probably as far as most went to know them. Maybe if people actually read the article and not the title, they'd see through Owen's words that NIMF was more reasonable than sensational.
11/21/09
Seriously, though, FotF is losing Dobson, so PluggedIn will eventually collapse, so might it be that, gasp, parents will actually have to read reviews or take a FUCKING INTEREST in their children's activities before they purchase and expose them to things willy-nilly?
Perish the thought!
11/21/09
11/21/09
In-fucking-deed!
Not that any of them listened.
#speakup
11/21/09
Blame the media
Blame Video games
Blame violent movies
But never blame us, we love our kids.
11/21/09
Wait.... doesn't FotF do reviews of games? So I'm not sure what your statement means....
I mean wouldn't it be the people reading those reviews that ARE taking interest? As opposed to the parents who go out and buy their 7 year old GTA, just because they want it?
Meh, I dunno just a thought....
11/21/09
11/21/09
I mean, of course retailers shouldn't be selling M-rated games to kids, but those kids' parents need to be active in the decision-making process of what kids get to play. Do the parents complaining about video game violence believe that they need to spend more time with their kids, or figure out how to control them to some degree? Of course not, and considering that it still happens with TV, movies, books and music, I don't think that these parents are ever going to own up to their shit.
11/21/09
[www.pluggedin.com]
11/21/09
Yeah, I'm not really sure what the problem with that review is?
So you are saying parents who read overly conservative reviews of video games don't care what their kids are doing?
I would think it is the opposite... Those parents are being overprotective if anything... which... is pretty much their right as a parent...
I think the ones who read reviews like that are well aware it is their responsibility to 'filter' what their kids are playing...
#speakup
11/21/09
Put it this way, like any policy wonk group, their report card is mostly agenda-shaping and it plays to a particular media landscape that can sell well. Like when you need to announce that someone or something is destroying the nation (e.g. family, civility, sex education). Just for a counter-example, look at your local library's seasonal recommendations for young adult & childrens reading. The quality of the reviews are substantively better, not because they're apolitical or objective, by being well-grounded in competing standards/ideas about what we do when we "read."
What's being sold here aren't reviews but a very specific filter, a packaged lense to make categorical distinctions based on the absurdist logics that image=action. So yeah, nothing wrong with it as a lifestyle service but hardly a site for gaming reviews. They're not very well informed by educational development sciences either--so most of the "reviews" come from grossly unnuanced views of how children do learn and develop. "Media is toxic" might sum their premise of gameplay. This isn't to say you can't find a decent or competent summary there, but Amazon.com can do that as well (often better considering the avid gamers who buy off it). I'd rather tell parents to skip the site and buy a forthcoming 4 inch screen DSi. Then, sit beside your kid and let them play. Watch/observe/interact/talk/laugh/ as they play.
So, if we're really going to suggest parents understand video games so they can create limits and help their child's play, shouldn't we also defend the simple idea of better subjective knowledge? Even if you're conservative, liberal, or nothing of the sort, shouldn't we want that? Even if you're not a parent or in the family, don't we need reviews that do more than issue report cards?
It's a parent's right to keep themselves ignorant or ill-informed by only using certain filters; until the kid loses it, until they're in the media & court.
P.S. telling parents to be better-informed isn't the point; as gamers, we want reviews to be more than just opinions or judgments or another advertisement.
11/21/09
Very nice, very eloquent, thank you.
11/21/09
That site's reviews, at one point, seemed like they were even more unreasonable than some of Plugged In's reviews may seem now, but Al Menconi's site had an overhaul at some point and became much more receptive to games, even the more violent ones, without compromising the overall point of the site (giving parents a reasonable assessment of a game's content without damning a game just because it's violent, necessarily).
That site quit reviewing games but moved some of them here:
[www.reviews4parents.com]
Another possible alternative is [www.whattheyplay.com] , which (if I'm not mistaken) was founded by two ex-1Up members and serves a similar purpose.
07/12/09
I personally think the industry is already doing alot to educate parents and keep kids away from objectionable content. It's now up to the parents to lay the lines and be parents. Too many times now, have parents blamed other people for things they can be preventing themselves.
07/12/09
07/12/09
Aye, my parents were of the "be smart about it" variety. Back when I was 10, I rented Vigilante 8 a few weeks after it came out. Vigilante 8, by the way, was rated T at the time, meaning that according to the ESRB, I was too young to play it.
After I spent some time with it, my parents somewhat agreed with the ESRB, and started researching and examining games before they let me play them. They banned some games altogether, or restricted playing time, but generally they let me play what I wanted.
This came to a head when I was about 12, since all the rest of my peers were playing M-rated games by then, whilst I was not allowed to. So we came to a compromise. They would let me play all games, except for certain M-rated games (Grand Theft Auto and other such games with violence and gratuitous sex come to mind) until I was 15.
When I turned 15, I had full responsibility for any actions performed outside of the game, and was allowed to play any M-rated game I wanted, so long as I knew the difference between reality and video games. Even so, sometimes they just plain Vetoed some games.
When I turned 17, the ESRB maximum age (although AO is 18, but nobody sells AO games), my parents stopped caring altogether, entrusting me with my video gaming decisions. Since I was always a self-aware and socially-aware person since I was about 13, I've had no problems at all. Even so, I've avoided some games like Grand Theft Auto, simply because when I've played them, the comedy is simply too low-brow (oh hey, a penis joke, and a 69 joke! Oh Rockstar.) and it adds nothing to the story.
And now I'm just about to turn 21, and I'm a few months away from earning my Commercial Pilot's License. So far as I can tell, I turned out alright.
My main point is that responsibility for game choice and any actions that result from there is not only the parent's responsibility, but the child/adolescent's responsibility. The parents should know what they are playing, and the child should know what they are doing, in full conscience of social norms and otherwise.
Parents cannot simply ban all M-rated games, since the violence in, say, Halo 3, is much more subdued than the violence in Manhunt. That's why one looks at the words next to the M, and maybe a few gameplay videos as well.
07/12/09
Not all kids are the same though. Some have difficulty in separating reality from fantasy. Do you really want such an impressionable child to play a game like Manhunt? My 10 year old step brother (who lives primarily 3 hours out of town with his mother) came to visit. I learned that he plays whatever he wants at his mother's house GTA IV and Fallout 3 included. This seriously worries me, because the child is not mature enough for the content. The child will be completely desensitized by age 11 if he spends a couple hours every day blowing raider's brains out.
I'm not saying it's wrong to let your child play games with a T or even M rating, I just think parents should take both the child and the game into account.
07/12/09
Perhaps your parents feel OK to let you play what you want to play, because they are aware of what it is, they know you, and they have decided it is OK. But this process must exist, parents should be involved, in part to make sure everything is OK, but mostly, if anything, to foster the relationship with their children.
07/12/09
I think there is another side to the coin about pushing these features. While I have no problem with the potential for assistance in blocking my kids from playing games that are inappropriate, it's looked on as a negative when you are selling your hardware to the 18- 35 crowd. What would an 18-35 year old need "Parental Controls" on their console for? For the under 18 crowd, why would they want their parents to block them from doing stuff?
This is where they walk that edge, between what is perceived as good, and what is perceived as an imposed Limitation by and outside force.. The dreaded parental unit.
07/12/09
I don't believe consoles especially need these parental controls. I don't believe the public has a need for these devices that switch consoles off after an allotted time. I do believe that the parents should actually pay attention to the ESRB ratings, and pay attention to what was in the game they are buying, before complaining that "little Timmy learnt to kill prostitutes from this mean, mean game".
07/12/09
The play time control tool, by the way, has more to do with a parent wanting to set an amount of hours for gameplay... and I really don't see anything wrong with this. I think it's good that these consoles are incorporating these technologies that make things easier for involved parents.
07/12/09
Those parents will know exactly what goes on in videogames and will be more wary of what their children are doing.
07/12/09
I disagree? You will find that, what you didn't think as a big deal when you did it, you won't want your kids doing it. No matter what that is. It's something that just happens. I won't even turn on my M rated games while my kids are awake.
07/12/09
I think you just enforced what he was trying to convey.
I took his comment as, "us gamers will be more aware of games and what they entail, since we grew up in the generation of the ESRB and M rated politics".
Thus it will make us more educated at to what is out there, and we will know better what to buy for and play in front of our children.
07/12/09
I wonder, though, how Thompson is so sure that consoles are still thought of as a toy. I mean, I'm in my thirties, my friends with children are as old or near it, and we all grew up with games. They don't call their PS3, or Wii, or DS even, a toy. But a Microsoft exec is positive that the public at large would? Shouldn't a cultural shift in the perception of video games taken place by now? Will it ever?
07/12/09
07/12/09
07/12/09
07/12/09
I think it is more society that has the blame game as a whole. And not parents. There is so much more limitations put on parenting, and the fact that most parents now must both work and be in the go go go society, where it is increasingly difficult for them to just "parent" like in the past.
07/12/09
07/12/09
07/12/09
You bring up a good point, and that is definitely reserved for another debate.
07/12/09
Very good point. I agree with this. But I can also understand the way society is shaping and taking away most of the responsibilities of the parents as well.
07/12/09
I would argue that in both cases, we could have good and bad parenting. In any of the two cases, as long as the decision comes from a process where the parent is doing this because he/she is involved in their kids' live, then I don't see how you could say it's bad parenting. On the other hand, if you let your kid play whatever he wants, not because you think it's OK, but just because you just don't want to deal with it... well... Likewise, if you don't let your kid play something, not because your involved and you know what the game is about, but outright because of something you heard, and you didn't even talk to your child... well...
07/12/09
My headset and public lobbies on live would lean towards the 360 indeed being a childs toy.
We need controls that allow you to force a user to submit ID to Microsoft for M rated games. :P
07/12/09
07/12/09
07/12/09
In my view, most of the problem stems from parents being more concerned with using the Xbox as a baby sitter and less concerned with the content that that exposes those kids to.
07/12/09
07/12/09
07/12/09
I had a frustrated moment in Left 4 Dead last night and said that my teammate was "horrible" and "needs to pay more attention to the team." He spent a good 30 minutes saying that I talk too much shit and I'm a noob, etc etc without any further provocation. It bothers me more when it's an adult because I know he's being a prick and a troll instead of just acting his age.
The occasional kids I encounter are usually really tame if you just let them know they're being annoying. "Hey, could you quiet down a little? You're being distracted" "Oh sure, sorry man." It might be that they know we'll kick them if they don't, or it might just be that kids take some urging to keep in line.
The one thing I notice as a trend from younger people is they ask a lot of questions. "What's the best gun? Where are you from? Which way do we go?"
07/12/09
That said, if you can, try to corrupt them in a good way. I turned my 6-year-old cousin into an aviation fanatic in a year. Hopefully it sticks with him, but at least now he's inquisitive about things I can actually answer in good conscience.
07/12/09
Maybe if Microsoft, etc heavily publicized the parental ratings features, the media wouldn't be able to sensationalize a story about violent video games just as they can't sensationalize a story about violence in an R-Rated movie.
07/12/09
Help please.
Edit: Now I can see it ???
On topic: As a parent I really dont like for the kids to play videogames unsupervised. That's why I never brought home any of the consoles I played when I'm abroad. (the wii will be the first)
07/12/09
07/12/09
This seems to happen randomly. Or the dreaded 'Failed to Load Comments' after waiting five minutes for them to load.
Just click refresh, or wait for a bit. Both have worked for me. Serious pain in the ass, though.
07/12/09
I guess it's more like Talk Amongst Yourself* amirte?
07/12/09
If parents do care enough to want to protect their child then they should be reading the manual of the electronic device they're giving to thier children.
Whether touting the child lock abilities of a console would make a difference or not to the sales or public perception, it will keep blame-shifting parents from trying to make a quick buck. Perhaps, Microsoft are content with that.
07/12/09
07/12/09
Yeah, I mean its ok to picket a game that mistakenly has massive amounts of blood but accidentally has been stamped with an E, yet they do it to games that aren't intended to be in the kid audience. I advice them to take a big breath and understand that not all games are for their children. Hell, my parents were smart enough to keep me from the mature games too. So yes, read the manuals. Not only that, but research more about what you're putting out to your son. There's the internet, and there's a wide amount of other sources. Ask a employee about games a kid would enjoy. Sometimes their opinions can be helpful too.
07/12/09
07/12/09
On the N64, my dad bought Conker's Bad Furday on it. Wasn't allowed to play it, so they kept it away from me. On SNES not so much. I guess its all on the aspect of how real it was.
07/12/09
06/28/09
(Remember, kids, "dickface" is not an insult when the person's face looks like a phallus.)
06/28/09
Pretty much. Thats basically how it is.
06/28/09
06/28/09
06/28/09
"Uh, that's for powering the internet"
"Oh, ok"
06/28/09
Exactly what I was thinking. Any kid with a second grade education will be able to find a workaround for this sorry excuse for lazy parenting.
I certainly hope the inventor appreciates the hypocrisy of inventing a device to stop kids from losing track of time while enabling the parents to do so.