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Denver, 6:16 PM
Fri Dec 4
53 posts in the last 24 hours
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08/26/09
First off, don't try to pretend you're claiming the moral high ground by telling someone to buy your product. Secondly, there is a difference between being tolerant of someone who is trying to limit the civil rights of their fellow human beings because of an arbitrary religious edict, and being tolerant of people who want nothing more or less but the same legal rights that other citizens enjoy.
Tolerance is not some hollow buzzword concept that must be applied equally to all. We should not tolerate murderers, or theives, we should not tolerate tyranny, or abuse. And it is not hyprocritical to refuse to tolerate the intolerant. It's a question of using reason and judgement to determine what is fair and right.
I won't be buying Shadow Complex, or doing anything else to support the endeavors of OSC, or anybody who would publically associate with him, or anybody else who publically espouses views like his. Other people are free to make their own decisions about where their priorities are, but I'm with Kim Wong.
08/25/09
I hope everyone who decided that he has to boycott Shadow Empire, hasn't spent anything on Lucasarts' The Secret of Monkey Island and The Dig ...
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/24/09
I can disagree with someone politically and still enjoy the results of their labor.
But when I find someone's politics abhorrent and those beliefs bleed into their art, well...that's their right to create such art.
Just as it's my prerogative not to support that endeavor. Such work just ends up being the intellectual equivalent of smearing dog crap on a canvas and calling it art.
08/24/09
08/24/09
You want to buy the game? Do it then
You dont? Then don't.
I dont see what the debate here is. You don't like the author, of the book that this game is based, and his views?
Don't buy it. Don't support.
And Wong go to hell. Get off down your high horse. Everyone is a bigot on the inside. Its natural we dont know that person we dont what they would do, so we fear that person. It's simply whether we can hold down the instinct to react in a negative manner. Some people cant. Some people can and people change.
and thing is about the whole "support" issue is that most other people provide a service. Such as managing the cashiers, mopping the floor you step on yet you pay them one way or another. Gonna stop living then?
08/24/09
Sure, he probably wouldn't even notice the lack of business. And if he did, yeah, it might financially disadvantage his non-scumbag employees, too. But it would be my right not to do business a scumbag if I didn't want to.
Kim Wong has every right not to buy this game if it bothers his conscience. If it doesn't bother yours -- and I'm not saying it should -- go ahead and buy it, but stop hammering Wong for a legitimate personal decision.
The only "argument" he needs is that he doesn't simply want to buy a product associated with someone he thinks is a high-profile scumbag, and that's his choice.
08/25/09
08/24/09
Additionally, none of the games any of you have purchased over the years have had members of their development teams with views that disagree with yours or actively work against them.
08/24/09
08/24/09
Oh please, these people need to grow up. While I think the statements Card made are shameful the holes in Wong's argument are numerous.
First, there is no indication that I have seen that the success of this game will influence Card's finances in any way.
Second, statements like the one quoted above are laughable. Sure, "support" numerous causes that are not our own by buying goods and services from people but many of us go a step further and buy goods and services from people we know have differing viewpoints. Every time we see a movie or buy music we are giving money to a person or group of people who may disagree with us on "key" issues... but are you going to skip the next album from your favorite band because their frontman came out and told the world that he was pro-life?
Third, Wong sets himself up to sit on a pillar drawing obscure lines connecting one issue to another (homophobia to shadow complex?) but tries to cover himself from being called a hypocrite by claiming he doesn't know where all his money goes. That's all fine and good but how can you really claim the moral high ground on something like this if you're not willing to do some sort of fact check on the people you make optional (games, movies, music) purchases from just to make sure you aren't funding causes you are against?
Cherry picking outrage is pathetic.
P.S. Oh by the way, sources on some of the homophobic Card statements would be nice.
08/24/09
08/23/09
I am also wondering if Kim Wong's response is because he is gay or just very liberal in this views. Either way, full disclosure of his orientation should be revealed so the reader can have proper evaluation of the objectiveness of his views.
08/24/09
08/23/09
Choices Choices.
In all seriousness though the responses from people listed in this article seem like weak deflections at best from the issue at hand. Trying to equate the view that homosexuals should be second class citizens to the view that you shouldn't pay income taxes is ridiculous. And I love the line where Mark Rein says that they don't discriminate when hiring based on the persons views. Good to know I can go to work at Epic after I leave my Nambla meeting and the Klan Rally.
08/23/09
Fuck these guys.
08/23/09
08/24/09
elaborate
08/23/09
Second, two lines that bothered me in the article: "Card... establishing his views about homosexuality in the context of his faith as member of the Church of Latter-day Saints".
Great. So lik 90% of all homophobes, he justifies his bigotry with his religious beliefs. Big shocker. Guess what? I don't care.
Religion isn't an excuse for hatred.
Also: "while I disagree with everything you have to say, I will defend to the death your right to say it."
This is such an annoying cop-out. Freedom of speech means we are free from GOVERNMENT censorship and retaliation - not free from all consequences whatsoever.
If this guy believes so strongly in freedom of speech, and he disagrees with Card, then maybe he should exercise his OWN freedom of speech and call Card out for the ignorant bigot that he is.
Finally, I believe this article misrepresents Card's views, in that they are much more severe than merely being against "gay marriage". He has suggested that gay people be locked up. This is morally reprehensible.
Card is an awful human being, and while he has the freedom to say the most idiotic things about gay Americans, I have the right to call him out on it and boycott the game he was involved in.
08/23/09