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Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
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Chalkdust
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
...really? This is such a minor issue. If you have a small hard drive, just delete some installs you aren't using. Otherwise, upgrading the HDD is easy enough. I did it.
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Talleh
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
Well that's not that surprising. What continues to surprise me is having to install non-disk based games. Why do I have to install the demo? Is it zipped up to save 10mb of space? Also, this this game a sequel to the other two? I'm really interested in it, but I wouldn't want to miss out on the previous story.
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EnigmaNemesis
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
Installs do not bother me the least.

Been PC gaming for longer than I can remember. So maybe that softens it a bit.

More taking advantage of tech to make the games bigger and better, well, the better.
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Diamond_Sutra
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
Ryu Ga Gotoku: Kenzan! (the samurai one) had an optional install of something like 2-4gb. Thing is, the difference between installing and not loading it was night and day. Without installing it, every fight that you got into (which was All The Time) took about 10-20 seconds to load. Each area-change took about 20 seconds too, and at some times you're running from map to map.

I think they left it optional just for the people who bought the lower-end PS3s.

But it makes sense to make it mandatory: Otherwise, you'll get those people who don't install it, but then complain loudly about all the loading. It just makes the experience better and uniform, so why not?
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Nillard
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
Consoles seem to be turning into PC gaming lite.
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IanC
01/29/09

@Nillard:

the PS3 is you mean.
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IanC was starred IanC was unstarred

Crumplecorn
01/29/09

@IanC: Ha ha, while the featuresets are tending mildly towards the PC, compare the number of "console exclusive but also on PC" games on the 360 and the PS3, and reconsider your statement.

Of course, 'turning into' isn't appropriate either, the XBox has been a 'PC lite' since the first incarnation.
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Crumplecorn was starred Crumplecorn was unstarred

the7k
01/29/09

@Crumplecorn: Yeah, everytime someone questions me buying a PS3, they usually through the names of "X360 exclusives" in my face that also are on the PC.

Why would I want to play Left 4 Dead on the X360 when I could enjoy the online for free and the modding community on the PC?
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the7k was starred the7k was unstarred

Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!!
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
That's okay... This is still a mandatory buy for me!
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Witzbold
01/29/09

@Soldier_CLE: Steve Wiebe The REAL King of Kong!: Lets pray SEGA releases it to the US. I mean they must have spent so much $$$ on the development of the game itself that theres no way in hell that they can deny themselves the potential of international sales.

Same with Kenzan. Im suprised they still didnt announce that one for the US. Even more so with the drought in regards to samurai games.
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Witzbold was starred Witzbold was unstarred

Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!!
01/29/09

@Witzbold: It makes me wonder...

I mean, on one end, we have solid titles like these (Yakuza III and Kenzai), and on the other end, we have "Jeffry & Co" likely insisting on "OMGZWEHAVZDASONICWAREWUFFZ!", thinking that it'll sell buttloads.

I really wonder from time to time about that, while I see other titles getting little to no exposure.
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Witzbold
01/29/09

@Soldier_CLE: Steve Wiebe The REAL King of Kong!: Seriously it just doesnt make sense at times.

Imagine if they had made an ad for Yakuza 2 saying its the "spiritual" successor of the Shenmue series how much it might have sold lol.

Even if its not totally true that would have been one nice underhanded tactic to use to lure in folks that are desperate for something like their beloved series of long lost.
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Mister Jack got an iPod Touch!
01/29/09

@Witzbold: They might not think the sales would justify the cost of localizatoin.
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Witzbold
01/29/09

@Mister Jack: Another plus for them is that they wouldnt need to do a "dub" track for the game. In terms of localization expenses.
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okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)
01/29/09

@Witzbold: I doubt Sega has the advertising capital for this but this game might do well if they pit it up against GTA4 and the upcoming Mafia games and do a multi-platform release here in the states. The problem is that it lacks exposure but the type of game-play and atmosphere it provides are things westerners have an appetite for. The chances of this happening are slim because were talking about tens of million in advertising.
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okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)
01/29/09

*off-topic*

@Witzbold: By the way Witz... I see what you or one of your followers (besides myself) did on Wikipedia. Well played Mr. Bold... well played.

Now may I direct you to the urban dictionary definition of "Prinny": [www.urbandictionary.com] [def #2]
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glassdevaney
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
for everyone complaining about this...

here's a 120gb drive for 55 bucks w/free shipping; cheaper than ONE game...

[www.newegg.com]
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glassdevaney was starred glassdevaney was unstarred

the7k
01/29/09

@PaaatrickBabyBoy: Hell, I got a 250GB Western Digital for $45. Had to get it because of freakin' Fallout 3 taking up 5 GBs.

I looked up guides and crap because I was scared I'd break something, and after installing it, I said "Holy crap, that was practically "Plug N Play" technology! Easy enough for my mom to do it.

Setting up YDL, on the other hand... but that's a different story for a different day.
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glassdevaney
01/29/09

@the7k: Wanna know something sad? I have Fallout 3 sitting on my shelf, but I've never played it because I was waiting for them to fix all of the reported issues with a patch. They recently patched and now there are MORE reports of freezing. And on my shelf it sits and waits...
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the7k
01/30/09

@PaaatrickBabyBoy: Yeah, I feel ya. I haven't even opened the plastic on Fallout 3 yet. Contemplating trying to return it to Wal-Mart to see if I can get another PS3 game, or even PSN Network Cards.

All the talk of 360 exclusive DLC and lack of general quality in the PS3 port makes me think that while I should get into Fallout 3 at some point, maybe I'll wait til it drops in price.
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happycamperjack
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
How da hell is this even news?? Aren't most PS3 games require a mandatory install these days? You guys don't seem to understand that mandatory install will actually extend life of your blu-ray drive and decrease load time, win win situation. PC has been doing this for like what, more than 10 years, big freaking deal! You guys should look at this as a good thing.

If you don't have enough space in you HD, delete things or get a 260gb harddrive upgrade for under $100, the costs of less than 2 games.
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rich8606
01/29/09

@happycamperjack: 100 bucks is a lot of money when you have a family to feed...
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NeVeRMoRe666
01/29/09

@happycamperjack: Thats going to be a long disemvowelment...
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Samicham85
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
Yeah yeah whatever people, you are all being so blind. Have you forgotten that Xbox 360 now lets you install your games. Hell if you've played The Last Remnant then you damn well know you need to install that game to even get the piece of shit playing right. Also keep note that it's 6GB per disc. So cut the bullshit.
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B0MBJ4CK
01/29/09

@Samicham85:

So the extra space on a Blu-ray disc means.... what....?

Having to upgrade your hard drive in order to install half the game to get it to play?
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IanC
01/29/09

@Samicham85:

Cept that the 360 installs are, oh let me see... OPTIONAL!!

Unlike the PS3 mandatory install bullshit.
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BlueToast
01/29/09

@B0MBJ4CK: Keep trying.

I didn't mind the periodic installs in MGS4. In fact I think Installs are a great option to give developers. And if you're not going to play this game because of a mandatory install then you weren't going to play it in the first place.
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BlueToast was starred BlueToast was unstarred

B0MBJ4CK
01/29/09

@BlueToast want's a lawyer!:

"Keep trying"

Trying to what? Your post proved nothing....

I'm just wondering why the bigger capacity disc medium of Blu-Ray requires installing AS WELL?

I mean, how big is this game?
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TRT-X
01/29/09

@BlueToast want's a lawyer!: Uh, not true. Let's say I've got my PS3 HDD of size X. And game I want Y has install size Z.

If Z exceeds the space on X, then I don't want Y anymore. Because it would mean deleting additional content C.
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TRT-X was starred TRT-X was unstarred

LllusionX Mailed the Fission
01/29/09

@IanC: yes, the installs on the ps3 are mandatory because sony wants you to always have the best gaming experience possible. the 360 installs are optional because the devs are lazy and couldnt care less about how you see the game the first time you play it, like the last remnant for instance.
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LllusionX Mailed the Fission
01/29/09

@B0MBJ4CK: just like most ps3 games, a LOT bigger than any 360 game, if you will take that as an estimate.
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LllusionX Mailed the Fission
01/29/09

@TRT-X: but unlike the 360, it is a lot simpler to delete useless content off of the ps3, for the fact that we can have over 60 demos unlike the 360's limit of like 5-6 or something. so if we had a lot of demos, we could simply take 15 seconds to delete 5 of them and theres an automatic 5000 MB. since demos take up the most space on any ps3, chances are that HDD size X isnt as problematic as it would be on xbox HDD size X2. for if you run out of space on the 360 and since demos probably arent the reason, you'd have more of a problem since you'd have to erase save data for games, or DLC, or downloaded marketplace games, etc. if Z exceeds the space on X, X is easily replenished on the PS3's X, unlike the many difficult choices of what to erase on the 360's X2, sir.

-Lllusionx
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Shiloa
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
A bit ridiculous. Killzone 2, Uncharted, Valkyria etc. are top (well, don't know about K2) games that don't require installs and work fine.
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rich8606
01/29/09

@Shiloa: Uncharted should have mandatory install. The popping really hurt the entire experience
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LllusionX Mailed the Fission
01/29/09

@rich8606: i'm sorry, but i definitely didnt notice any pop in in uncharted. maybe you had a bad copy or something, but that game was very clear and didnt pop in for me.
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Witzbold
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
Jesus.

While installs are neat and all devs really gotta quit with using it as a crutch.

Since the whole point of gaming consoles was we didnt have to install shit, all pop in and play.

Not a big fan of mandatory installs on consoles.
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tylerstyle
01/29/09

@Witzbold: True. I hear you. But what would you prefer?

A: a mandatory Install?

B: Longer load times, less graphics, less physics, less AI?

Choose!
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tylerstyle was starred tylerstyle was unstarred

Mister Jack got an iPod Touch!
01/29/09

@tylerstyle: How about an OPTIONAL install?
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ara
01/29/09

@Mister_Jack: With optional installations all you really can do is shorten the load times a little. If you design your game to depend on the fast and steady stream of data that HDD can provide you can do things differently, and better, than if you rely only on the optical media and substitute it with HDD when allowed. Load times are not all you can do with HDD. Try to imagine Little Big Planet without HDD? No used generated content at all, wouldn't be quite the same, eh?
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ara was starred ara was unstarred

ddhboy
01/29/09

@Witzbold: They have to in the case of the PS3 because of how slow the PS3 Blu-Ray drive is. Alot of the games for the PS3 avoid this by just recopying data to multiple points on the disk so that the laser reading the disk doesn't have to travel as far. Most of the games that do this however are multiplat ports from the 360, or games that aren't using the full power of the PS3. MGS4 for example had to do an install because the amount of data on the disk meant that they wouldn't be able to run the game directly from the disk without any issues. I would expect that Yakuza 3 is similarly filled with data, making this manditory. So really, its not the game developers using it as a cruch, more over as its Sony's fault for shipping the PS3 with a X2 blu-ray drive.
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Mister Jack got an iPod Touch!
01/29/09

@ara: I don't buy that. Look at how gorgeous Killzone 2 is. No mandatory install on that one. Meanwhile, you get a nearly 20 minute install on Devil May Cry 4, and it ends up looking the exact same as its 360 counterpart. I haven't seen mandatory installs do anything other than (maybe) speed up load times.
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JonJon
01/29/09

@Mister_Jack:

That's a problem with the programmers. Some are just better than others.

I wouldn't compare DMC4 install to Killzone 2 when DMC4 was out before the proper PS3 dev kit was released, not to mentiont he game is almost a year old.

I do agree though that if Killzone 2 can do it then others can surely do it as well, but the installs do make it easier and faster to make games (time is $$$).
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Mister Jack got an iPod Touch!
01/29/09

@JonJon: You have a point I suppose, but I tend to believe that for a lot of these games, the mandatory installs are really not necessary. Hopefully as devs get more used to the PS3 hardware we can stop seeing it all the time.
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okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)
01/29/09

@Mister Jack: I think that's the point few want to make. The PS3 for some titles need mandatory installs because it will impact the overall game if they don't have it. It's not a question of waiting but one of technical limitations.

Some games can load all their assets into memory at the beginning of each gaming section and not have to load anything for a while.

Some games organize their entire world into logical sections on the BD-ROM and stream large chunks of data at a time to mask seek time at the cost of a good portion of RAM.

Some games cant do either due to design or just like of foresight and the last option to maintain performance is to push their entire image (less video) or the critically hit content to the hard drive.

What I don't understand is why PS3 developers don't just cache information on the hard drive as people play like in the 360 rather than mandating the install. It's all speculation on my part but could it be the PS3's underlying OS doesn't have a temporary file capabilities that lets the system delete temp files created from other games to free up cache memory or some kind of virtual memory scheme? I don't know really but an option, as you stated, might have been nice.
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DigitalHero
01/29/09

@Witzbold:

How is it a crutch to use hardware that improves your title?
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LllusionX Mailed the Fission
01/29/09

@tylerstyle: i choose all of the above!!
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LllusionX Mailed the Fission
01/29/09

@ddhboy: not really, it's an option that the developers choose in order to make it play better. it happens for the ps3, because usually, it has larger used space for most of it's games. but when you think about games like killzone 2, they found a way to make it look delicious and still not have an install. your poor overgeneralizations like the slow blu ray argument arent actually applicable, for apparently, they dont even need it for larger games sometimes.
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TheDarwinian
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
Wow, that's a BIG mandatory install.

Don't they know there's 20gb PS3 SKUs out there?
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severeon
01/29/09

@TheDarwinian: We are the forgotten few.
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leviathan.in.pieces
01/29/09

@severeon: Hey, you can play PS2 games unlike us doubly gimped (in BC and HD space) 40gb PS3ers.

Quit yer whinin'!
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tylerstyle
01/29/09

@leviathan.in.pieces: and buy a big 2.5inch hdd with 250gb capacity for about 50$...

You forgot to say that.
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tylerstyle was starred tylerstyle was unstarred

glassdevaney
01/29/09

@tylerstyle: seriously. i upgraded my laptop hard drive, so i popped my old hd into the ps3. now i have a 160gb ps3. took maybe two minutes. and the drive i was putting in my laptop was a 500gb that was still just over a hundred.

sony really hooked us all up by making the drives swappable (and giving instructions in the manual on how to do so, which doesnt void the warranty).
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glassdevaney was starred glassdevaney was unstarred

Mister Jack got an iPod Touch!
01/29/09

@PaaatrickBabyBoy: Is there a simple way to transfer data in between the old HDD and the new one, kinda like the 360's transfer kit? I've been thinkin about upgrading but don't really want to lose all my files.
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Armagilius
01/29/09

@Mister_Jack: Yup. Buy a big USB pen drive or external drive, and use the PS3's backup utility. It'll backup EVERYTHING on the HDD.

After installing the new HDD and formatting it, use the Restore utility, and you'll get everything back.

*pats 500GB PS3* :)
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Armagilius was starred Armagilius was unstarred

Mister Jack got an iPod Touch!
01/29/09

@Armagilius: Thanks! Uh..how much does all that cost?
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okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)
01/29/09

@Mister Jack: ~$100

[www.newegg.com]
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Theoutlet
01/29/09

@Mister Jack: When I did it, I backed up all my stuff on to an old 60B iPod.
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Theoutlet was starred Theoutlet was unstarred

LllusionX Mailed the Fission
01/29/09

@TheDarwinian: for some reason, i think i'm the only person on kotaku with a backwards compatible 80gig. i dont know why i think that, but everybody seems to have 60s,40, and 20s. :/
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†FunkBrothaDee†
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
That is huuuge! Don't really mind installing a game as long as it's not DMC4 long. And shy are the children so shiny?
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AndrewDB
01/29/09

@†SДTДЙЧOKД†: 5.5 gig isn't that big.

Oblivion for the 360 is 7.7 gig.
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AndrewDB was starred AndrewDB was unstarred

t3hOutlaw
01/29/09

@AndrewDB: That wasn't a mandatory install though.
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okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)
01/29/09

@t3hOutlaw: It was probably a combination of him saving every step and DLC :)
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phinehas
01/29/09

In reply to Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 Has Mandatory Install
Well, it was either the mandatory install or they cut off a finger.
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Darrisbob1
01/29/09

@phinehas:

I lol'd
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Brian Ashcraft
01/29/09

@Darrisbob1 dislikes tofu, but loves sushi: Why not nominate it for Hyper Multi-Tap?
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Brian Ashcraft was starred Brian Ashcraft was unstarred

Nubius, the best 30 seconds of your life.
01/29/09

@phinehas: is this really a problem? The HD's in the PS3 are rather large, and you can always swap out with a replacement fairly easy.
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phinehas
01/29/09

@Nubius: Actually, no, I don't see the install a problem at all. There really shouldn't be as big a deal made out of this as there is.
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phinehas was starred phinehas was unstarred

LllusionX Mailed the Fission
01/29/09

@phinehas: it doesnt always work like that, but i still lol'd. for example, killzone 2 said it wont have the install and it looks to have a lot of HD space involved in it.
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Chalkdust
12/11/08

In reply to Rygar Taps Hard Gay For Beefy, Oiled-Up Game Promo
Awesome, wish I were there to see this madness, lol. HUSTLE, Hard Gay, Tajiri all equals win.
Reply

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