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Denver, 1:14 AM
Mon Nov 30
8 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/11/09
10/12/09
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10/11/09
i would assume that maybe china would at least use a "world super power" as an example and takes bits and pieces of how such country functions and is generally able to do so well...
i guess that's asking too much.
_<
10/11/09
Re: your comment though, Online gaming represents a "real" threat to the Chinese government, not in the same way a guy holding a gun to your head represents a real threat, it's more of a perception kind of thing.
China has struggled to come to terms with the internet, and a lot of people from the western world have failed to understand why. The internet is inherently democratic. Information flows freely from one computer to the other around the globe, crossing borders in an instant with little to no content oversight. Regardless of where you stand on the issue of freedom of information, you have to admit that a country that has a history of strictly (violently) controlling the day to day activities of an individuals life will have issues, big issues, with people suddenly being able to access any information they want.
China has relaxed its social controls only in the past 20 years or so, thanks in large part to Deng Xiao Ping's economic programs (the so called 改革开放), but one area which the Party has maintained its utmost control is in the area of access to information, both incoming and outgoing. We in the west might take for granted that we can participate in any online forum, play any online game, and say pretty much whatever comes to mind (political or otherwise) without so much as a by-your-leave from the state and not meet with any kind of resistance. Not to belabor the point, but in China, this is not the case. So the "threat" of online games poses a problem for China's great social engineers. They allow people to connect with one another and interact in ways that are regulated by game programmers, not Chinese heads of State. This is a big no-no in a world where the appearance of control at even the smallest, read inconsequential, levels is as important as the actual presence of control.
Is the Chinese government overreacting? Sure. Are they wrong to do so? It's hard to say. From my cultural and political point of view this reaction seems absurd, but from the Chinese point of view the actions of the MPAA and RIAA litigating against individuals is equally absurd. Time will tell how effective, not at all, this ban will be. China has already let the genie out of the bottle by allowing the internet inside its borders, and savvy users aren't going to let legalisms stand in the way of their recreation. I do have to admit that this is a step in the wrong direction, and a rather petty one at that. But before we all go nuts bashing China for being completely ass backwards remember this; social and political change always come at a price, and in China that price can be very high.
-------------
For the record I am not a China apologist, just another China-watcher. I've worked, studied, and lived in that country on and off for better than a decade (a short time I know), but being familiar with the reality of life in China as opposed to the western perception of it often puts me at odds with its western critics. It gets under my skin to see people, not you nike, draw uninformed conclusions based on their almost complete lack of knowledge on it. Slamming an entire country and making broad generalizations about China is distasteful, especially considering the subject matter. Anyway, long winded post out.
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10/10/09
China bashing is quite the rage now in the US, but I thought Kotaku at least had some cultural sensitivity. I mean, many people have been banned in the past for using derogatory terms for Japanese people or bashing Japan.
10/12/09
10/10/09
You know, just to save time. And paper.
10/10/09
--Philip
10/10/09
What's to say the population increases to the point where it's dangerous so they start killing people on the street, even go ahead and kill you. I mean it makes sense since they are running out of space right? What if plenty of uninformed people support it and that actually happens. Just because it fixes a problem doesn't mean it was the best option.
Also just because you live there and it seems practical doesn't mean it's just. I live in the US and their are still plenty of people who think we should get rid of government health care. To those people it makes sense, but to others it sounds wrong. It is all an idea of perception. Those people don't see it will be the death of many, but others see paying a bit more will save so many people.
Also as for being offended, calm down, you will live longer. Or you might not live longer because they need more space in your country.
Now I'm not defending either option, I'm just saying that if you look at a picture too close, you might not see everything, You step too far back and you can't tell the details. Try to take into account all views, not just the one from your country, because if enough people think it's bad then maybe something is bad. If there is smoke it doesn't always mean there is fire but something is causing that smoke and ignoring it won't help.
My opinions and rambling aside though , I hope you live a long and healthy life and I hope I didn't offend you :)
10/10/09
Clever China.
10/10/09
I see quite a few people in North America ruining their lives with MMOs and games in general to understand where the communist government is coming from. I'll be the first to admit that their methods are unsatisfactory but they're dealing with the issue in what I'd say is a fairly "chinese" way. Those with conservative Chinese parents would probably understand. On a more historic note, every time China has had one revolution or another, it always leads to chaos. I almost feel that the very fabric of our culture is incompatible with democracy and freedom. Seeing the Taiwanese parliament breaking out into fist fights on a semi-regular basis is quite frankly an embarrassment to the concept.
Finally, the Chiner comment is harmless. There's far too many, "I face racism on a daily basis" comments for me to even respond to. But I'll say it too, I face racism on a daily basis, and I think it's worth laughing at. Face it, racism today is not the black and white bigotry that forms what most of us consider it as. It's more the "accepted racism" that runs rampant. "Chinese people are hard working" or "Chinese people are good at math" and what not. It's far better to dispel the racism by being lazy and incompetent at counting than to tell Owen to "fuck off" every other post.
10/11/09
I'm going to respond to myself since it's easier than responding to all the posts. Let's break down how some of the freedoms have fared for the good ole West shall we?
Let's start with freedom of speech. I can't lie, it's fairly important, most of the West probably wouldn't be in the state they're in now if it wasn't for this fundamental freedom. But, it's incredibly silly to equate freedom with speech with lack of censorship. If you really took a few minutes to think about it, there's a lot of things that Americans are not allowed to see or hear that's regulated by the government. Yes, not to the same extent as the Chinese government, but come on here, baby steps. Western Civilization wasn't built in 70 years, and disgruntled anti-Chinese commentators on Kotaku aren't going to democratize the country any faster. And let's not even talk about how Japan did it after being bombed to hell, there's a reason why academics call it the "Japanese Miracle." And on a final note, I'm ignoring anyone who says that shooting doctors that perform abortions should be legalized because it's an expression of oneself. Believe it or not, that has actually been used as an excuse in the US.
How about the freedom to gather and congregate? Right, without it we wouldn't be able to brainstorm and organize futile protests. If I see another pointless protest against the tax the government going to pass anyways, it'll be too many. I guess everyone else in the States can let me know how the protests against medicare goes right? It's okay, I can watch CNN thanks.
Well damn, I had a few more to go, but it's almost time to work and I doubt anyone else is going to read this post anyways.....
10/10/09
I come from a Chinese background. My father's uncles were tortured to death at labor camps in the 1950's by the Communist government. My father's family fled to Taiwan from China with nothing but the shirts on their back to avoid the same fate. My Grandparents who fled to Taiwan were separated from their siblings and nieces and nephews for 30+ years until relations were somewhat normalized between the two countries.
The same people who instituted those policies are now 60,70-80 years old now are still in charge or their kids/proteges are in charge.
Fuck the Chinese Government.
Also, FUCK YOU LUKE. Chiner is derogatory and offensive.
10/10/09
It's people like you who make other Chinese look shameful and stupid.
The government back in the 50s did some questionable things, but it doesn't mean that the things they are doing now are all wrong and immoral.
(PS: and don't lecture me on the Cultural Revolution, boy, my grandpa and the family were sent down because he went to Yale and owned streets and streets of buildings in Beijing, which were all confiscated).
Prostitution through online gaming communities is a huge problem.
Please get your facts straight before shouting here like a crazy Taiwanese person (see, I respect your choice of ethnicity).
10/10/09
10/10/09
While it's easy to complain about China clamping down on online gaming and cursing the government for doing so, maybe it would be prudent to actually understand some history.
Remember the One-Child Policy that China put into effect? Yeah, that policy came about because of various issues including the influence of the UN. In fact, the UN fully endorses the One-Child Policy, still does.
The One-Child Policy came into effect a generation ago. Thanks to that, the available current and future manpower is being "jeopardized" by people who play video games instead of going out to get a job. Various forms of online and gaming addictions are reported much more frequently in Asian countries than they are in the West. The Chinese government, therefore, has legitimate reasons to want to stop this problem, even if it seems like it's doing so in a bone-headed manner.
Again, it's easy to hate on the Chinese government because of its clamping down on online gaming. But without understanding the history involved, you will never understand the "why" and the "how" this decision came to be.
ADDED:
Also, Owen Good, I just looked up Urban Dictionary on the word "Chiner" and if that's what you're really saying, then this is what I have to say to you:
Go fuck yourself.
10/10/09
As for the 1 child policy... well, they should repeal it. And the UN is a load of balls. Cause more problems than they solve.
10/10/09
10/10/09
You must be one of the slanty eyed purveyors of bootlegged crap yerself then?
And "Urban Dictionary"? REALLY?
10/10/09
The problem is the here and now with people who have zero understanding of world history and opening their mouths with complete disregard for understanding something, let alone anything.
The derogatory punchline at the end is absolutely bad journalistic practice and I'm personally interested in seeing Owen lose his fucking journalist license.
10/10/09
I do face racism, pretty fucking often, and I don't like it. If you have something against me, as an ethnic Chinese, then bring it asswipe.
Try googling Chiner, it doesn't show up. Hence Urban Dictionary and hence why I asked if Owen really meant what he said.
10/10/09
Oh, and I'm personally interested in seeing you lose your commenting license. Prick.
10/10/09
Benefit of the doubt. Give it to him.
10/10/09
@gunluva is prepared to drop.: I read it and interpreted it as derogatory. If it's a UK thing, then Owen needs to mention it explicitly because I'm operating from an American point of view.
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10/10/09
And this is in the U.S. of fucking A. Most of the UK people that I dealt with have pronounced "China/Chinese" properly and in general, have been very easy-going and fun to hang out with.
I personally don't know whether "Chiner" is how the folks in England pronounce it; it still sounds wrong and it sounds very derogatory. If the folks from Australia can pronounce China and New Zealand can pronounce it properly, then what's holding the UK folks from pronouncing it properly?
After all, the name "China" was what the British Empire gave to China so it is absolute BS that UK people cannot pronounce the word properly. To me, at least.
10/10/09
Which is why I told him to give you the benefit of the doubt. Because you misunderstood. I understand people can make mistakes. Some others are not so understanding.
10/10/09
Some UK people pronounce the "ah" sound at the end of words as "er".
10/10/09
10/10/09
I went to university in a fairly... 'un-cosmopolitan'... section of England and resided in a particularly horrible neighborhood that basically made up of chavs, which I walked through every single day to get to class and back.
Being Asian, I had racial terms thrown at me occasionally by some of the scummier residents of that area.
The reason I don't think that he meant anything bad by "chinner" is that I've never heard that used as derogatory term there (or anywhere) before. Generally I've only had "chink" "chinky" or "paki" cause I mainly take after my southeast Asian side of the family.
I never heard "chinner" before so I interpreted it as a spelling of "Chi-nerr" or "chi-ah" which is how my more amicable Nnorthern English (Manchester to the border of Scotland) friends would have pronounce China.
And like I said, Owen most likely isn't a racist troll, so he probably didn't mean it that way.
10/10/09
You sound like a total idiot.
I'm so sorry.
10/10/09
This whole chiner thing is the "sambo" thing again. Say China. Now say China with an english accent. "Choi-nah" OR "Chi-ner". It isn't derogatory. You're one of the reasons racism won't go away, you won't let it. Whose to say who has the proper pronounciation? If the UK invented the word, odd are the American are saying it wrong.
Basically, chill the hell out.
10/10/09
Besides that, much of the time the one child policy is enforced on the Han, the majority of the population. Minorities are granted a multitude of concessions (such as the equivalent of Affirmative Action, repealing of the one child policy, etc).
I think my problem isn't that people are critical of the Chinese government; you should be critical of ANY government, they govern our lives, after all. However, my problem lies with the inherent lies and half truths that are perpetuated on both sides of the ocean. While Westerners call any non-Japanese country oppressive dictatorships that should embrace democracy (never mind the political and economic fallout that would result from such a rapid and sudden overnight shift in governing methods), Easterners believe the West to be bullies trying to push their way of life onto others even if it's not particularly wanted or welcomed. I'm Chinese-Taiwanese-American, and I can assure you, I've seen racism from all sides. If you think Chiense/Taiwanese people can't be racist to their own kind... well, news flash: they can.
Admittedly I'm more partial to Western governing methods but I've lived in the U.S. all my life and my beliefs are that if someone isn't breaking the law they should be allowed to go about their business as they see fit; but even then that is biased - who's to say which method of governing is 'morally superior'? Every country has atrocities under their belt.
It's easy to propose solutions when you ignore reality; if you can propose a solution where the one child policy can be repealed - indeed, when anything can be changed into the 'western standard' - and the economy as well as currently usable resources would be ravaged, I'd be the first to stand by your side and march for the cause. Until then...
Also: Owen's Chiner thing sounds kind of like that whole 'Chinaman' statement from... ESPN I think it was? A few years back. The guy had no idea it was derogatory and apologized afterwards. I tend to keep an open mind about these things; racism is often the product of ignorance and not hatred.
10/11/09
[en.wikipedia.org]
@omgwtflolbbqbye: I don't believe that Owen is racist, but the tone of the article really rubs me the wrong way, especially with that "Chiner" and "That is all" at the end.
@Hey_Blinkon: What? Being harassed in a public space by a racist white dude in his 40s who won't let you ignore him isn't a crime? Following me around for the better part of two blocks is what I would consider to be good enough reason for me to beat him down. I believe the term is "stalking" and it is clearly a crime. Also, aside from latching onto me, he has grabbed me on my shoulder once, and pushed me with both of his arms after he repeated his racial slur.
I also need to remind you that the incident happened not too far from my high school, which has the police station, city hall, civil court, and now the city library all sitting in front of its main gate. Where were the police officers, you might ask? They were busy ignoring the whole fucking incident until I started beating him down. Straight punch to the throat, then another to his nose and one more straight into his eye just for good measure when he was trying to punch back.
By the way, I wasn't alone. Would you like me to list the physical contacts he performed on 2 of my other friends? End result, I wasn't in trouble, he was behind bars.
And remember, I am speaking of this incident from personal experience and I understand full well that I don't have the right to assault someone but I do have the right to self-defense and will exercise that right with extreme prejudice.
@Leyviur: Good comment. I'm wondering why no one has promoted your comment yet.
10/11/09
I'm gay and Irish. I can't move on the internet for all the derogatory shit going on. I just get over it.
This guy has a little hissy fit just because he took something the wrong way, yet I'm supposed to be nice and say "There there. We're sorry."?
Screw that. Maybe he should learn to stop seeing racism where it isn't.
And I stand by my reasoning that he's an idiot for relying on "urban Dictionary". Half the stuff in there is made up crap by random idiots.
10/10/09
I remember one of the Kennedy's, possibly all of them, called Cuba "Cuber."
10/11/09
10/10/09
Translation : They didn't pay me enough to sign the permission.
10/10/09
Or is there another reason they don't crack down piracy?
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so we can judge them based on our own cultural perceived values?
why does EVERY culture have to act one way?
there is no black and white on what is right in this world. it's not that simple. this is what the Chinese government saw fit to do.
one is of course entitled to an opinion about the "issue."
but i really doubt that this story was posted for opinion, but more as a way to say, "hey... LOOK WHAT THE CHINESE ARE DOING NEXT!!! Let's poke some fun and JUDGE them through the eyes of our own culture and think it's all wrong."
I'm sorry for the rant. But I'm sick of these types of posts showing up.
10/10/09
This is exactly the reason government shouldn't be allowed any more power than required.
10/10/09
I don't judge other cultures. I judge tyrannical governments. There is black and white when it comes to liberty.
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10/10/09
@Alex: This is wrong. End of story.
10/10/09
There are far more articles relating the often senseless antics of American anti-game senators, lawmakers, activists, the ESRB, etc.
Judge nobody? Nah - judge everybody.
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I say:
No. It is wrong.
Unless you don't believe in free speech and other stupid things like that.
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Left up to their own devices, there is TONS of evidence that the Chinese people desire the very things that the government has to ban. Their values are much the same as ours, but they are prohibited from acting on them because of it.
10/10/09
Spoilers: he kept walking in front of the tanks even though the tanks were trying to drive around him. Also, some people from the crowd yanked him away from there and back into the crowd and you can see the tank commander going "wtf was that about?" before going on with his job.
10/10/09
While it seems fairly easy to bitch about the ills of the Chinese government, a number of these are directly attributed to the shit we imposed on them.
[www.freerepublic.com]
[www.c-fam.org]
Good job, assholes.
10/10/09
Exactly when did you live in China? Because over the past 5 years the government has significantly loosened up its grip. In fact, if you've been to big cities like Beijing or Shanghai, none of this so-called "oppression" exists. People scream what the want on the streets and the police do what they can to keep peace and order, but there's none of this dragging-people-off-to-executions type of tyranny in the country.
Honestly, it's quite pathetic how people expect the people to overthrow the government rather than have the government reform itself - something that has already been happening, slowly but surely.
10/10/09
10/10/09
To be fair though, I'm pretty sure the older generation in China don't want the younger generation to be gaming. The people in power (basically all in the older generation) don't understand video games at all. As SmilingPolitely says, there are a lot of examples of anti-videogame. Its just it doesn't get quite so far, since most governments don't have as much power as China's.
The only hope for China is for the younger generation to gain a more international prospective (very hard with all the censorship/propaganda in China) and evolve the government to be less restrictive.
10/10/09
I'm talking about undue censorship of mass media outlets based on governmental whims which it's what the article is discussing.
And yes you're right that the modern major cities are almost indistinguishable from any other major city in modern western democracies in terms of cultural and social practices/ rights, but the government still has a firm grip over the kind of information and culture/media that flows in and out of the country and the vast majority of their population can access which is what I personally have a problem with since that's still about 50% of democracy.
(And FTR half my mother's side of the family is from Shanghai (the other half is in Thailand which has similar issues)
10/10/09
Flow of Information?
wow... you've never been to a Chinese BBS have you? Half the shit on any Chinese BBS is mocking of the government.
If you think any Chinese person actually takes CCTV seriously, you don;t know no Chinese people. (yea, mr.overseas)
10/10/09
On the other hand, while censorship is still an issue it has improved considerably. Foreign coverage of national issues in particular has changed drastically over the past few years, with the government only really cracking down on controversial/national security issues like Tibet. I firmly stand by my comment about the government having eased its grip, and I think anyone who is currently living in China would agree with me there.
10/10/09
And since I'm well aware people are going to bring up the chaos in Tibet, do keep in mind that the citizens themselves started violent riots by torturing, killing, and vandalizing. Anything short of bringing in the military would would be irresponsible and idiotic of the government.
On the topic of censorship, it's a bit ironic that the majority of individuals in the country who have access to the internet also have easy access to multiple proxies, allowing them to pretty much access whatever they please. Even more ironic is the fact that all they would have to do to have "legal" access to the material is to take a trip to Hong Kong.
10/10/09
10/10/09
It could evaporate away altogether down the line. I think censorship is just as much enforced/based on cultural and generational principles as government agendas, and of course that'll always be shifting whether a government can help it or not.