I don't play conventional sports games, at all. Ever.
Ever.
That said, I'm honestly surprised that (and this could have been done already, I wouldn't know) some of these sports titles haven't taken the "Tony Hawk" route and incorporated some manner of Story Mode.
Start out as a regular high school football/baseball/basketball/whatever player, get your stats up to get recruited by a college team, repeat, sign with the majors, go for the superbowl/wolrd series, etc.
It seems like a good way to squeeze a little more narrative into a genre where you're basically paying full-price, year after year, for updated stats and rosters . #sports
NFL 2k is solely missed. I haven't played a NFL football game since 2k5. Madden's exclusive NFL license is one of the worse things to happen to video games since the deal was made. It proves that EA has an inferior product and didn't like the competition.
I won't be playing an NFL title again until Visual Concepts gets the license back. To hell with madden. #sports
@Striderhayasa - Can we get some damn m/kb support?!: for a while, I was one of those people that didn't believe, but I played NFL 2K5 recently, and I was amazed at how much better the gameplay is than Madden.
Do people still update and download rosters for 2K5? I might go re-buy it, as I had Madden 10 and after playing it for two weeks returned it. It's a broken game. #sports
@casmith07: there was a friend of mine that kept up with the updated rosters but that was a couple of years ago. I don't know if he does it now. Check google. There might be someone around doing it. #sports
@Striderhayasa - Can we get some damn m/kb support?!: there's some kind of editor out there, but nothing terribly concrete...would love to see that game reconstructed. I think the NFL's exclusive license is close to being up with EA Sports too. #sports
I never understood why 2K' didn't go the route of PES, and put "similar" teams with "similar" players in a football game that had everything else (gameplay, presentation, etc). Give the game a deep edit mode, and let the fans do the rest.
It's worked to keep PES an option in a category where EA's FIFA really has the money and the influence to get the licenses they want. #sports
There has long been a bias against sports games from "hardcore gamers", which has manifested itself in the relative paucity of honors the games have received. I think it's just because not many gamers are sports fans, maybe because the jocks pushed around the nerds in high school, I dunno. Also, until the Wii gave a new meaning to the phrase "casual gamers", the sports games were always viewed as the games that are played by people who aren't "real gamers."
The thing is, NHL or FIFA are actually excellent videogames on top of being excellent simulations of the sport. They are fast-paced and require tons of strategy and fast reflexes. The control is fine tuned and allows simple basic operations and very complex manuevers. There are tons of modes with near endless depth. Etc. For my money, FIFA 10 is one of this year's top games.
@Mokon: Very well said. Fifa is probably the hardest game I play every year, due to its depth and complexity. Every time I play I learn something new, it's like peeling an onion. Just watching the tutorials for what you can do is close to half an hour, then you need to learn when/how to do it. No game I've played in a while is as hardcore, and I don't know anyone who plays these games "casually." Everyone I know who doesn't play other games plays these with a passion, and they are way more obsessed with it than I am, though I'm the one with the most games. #sports
I definitely agree. NFL 2k5 is my favorite sports game possibly of all time. It's just a shame that the force that is EA Sports basically canned this franchise. Such a shame.
There needs to be some form of anti-trust action taken for this sort of stuff, lol. #sports
@P3nnst8r: The logical follow-up to that is "everyone should be allowed to make Batman movies"... I'm generally a super-liberal, anti-business pro-regulatory-body commie, but I'm not convinced that preventing IP holders from signing exclusive agreements is a solution to any pressing problem.
Still, I understand your frustration with a predatory business deal that has diminished the quality and quantity of selection. #sports
@Brett Benedict: Well, the big thing that hurt 2K5's gameplay was running with the QB was too effective, even with a spy put on him. I'm sure 2K6 would had fixed that one nagging issue. Too bad Visual Concepts never got the chance. :^( #sports
I think the most analogous situation to a sports game winning a GOTY award would be a documentary winning the Oscar for best picture. There's no reason a documentary couldn't win best picture; they're certainly not barred from the category. But the form just isn't one that critics and voters consider appropriate for an overall "best of" category.
And I think you're right, Owen, in that it has something to do with storytelling-- we consider that an essential criterion for a game that could win GOTY. Sports games simply don't tell stories; they create structures in which the gamer can tell a story. That, of course, brings us back to NFL 2k5, which used the ESPN format to come closer than any other football title to telling a story. It gets my nod as Sports Game of the Decade.
"Criticism of video games is increasingly considerate of a game's narrative, and a sports simulation fundamentally has none."
This isn't necessarily true. Real sports certainly do have narratives - multiple ones at any given time - and I would *love it* if any sports game really tried to model this in both a realistic (ie. non-cheesy) and in-depth way. Some EA games have started to do it; the whole "player happiness" and "media reaction" things are *parts* of the real-life narrative of sports, but these are basically just treated as score modifiers right now in most sports games.
It would be great if sports games had real, multiple storylines that ran throughout your career (so you could really get to "know" the players involved over the years), that changed depending on your actions, that affected gameplay and were an integral part of the game rather than an afterthought. Like, I want to see players shooting themselves in the leg at nightclubs in the off-season. Or deciding to retire, then un-retire, then retire again, then un-retire again. Throw some wrinkles like that into your team management!
This is probably the last frontier in sports games - everything else has been done. I feel like all EA's doing in all their sports games anymore is improving the graphics and adding a new move or two each year that just makes the controls more complex. #sports
@badasscat: Well, Blitz: The League took that approach. The problem there is that 1) sports gamers by and large want to see real players in their games and 2) the licenses people buy into would never allow such tinkering with their product. Could you imagine the Cable story playing out in a game or the recent Volunteers' players' robbery? I can, but it'll never happen. #sports
That was such a fantastic, yet depressing, year cycle for sports games. NFL 2K5 comes, and probably becomes one of my best bargains ever considering the amount of time I put into it. Online play was fantastic, franchise mode was great fun, and the online community kept the rosters updated for quite a while.
Later, MVP Baseball 05 was released, easily the best baseball game I will ever play. The perfect combination of simulation and playability, I must've put in 1000 hours into it, at the very least. Online play was tons of fun, dynasty mode was a blast, and the PC version was updated yearly (MVP 06 and 07 were quality).
These franchises were sadly ripped away from the market. I actually picked up the MVP NCAA games and enjoyed them quite a bit, as well as All Pro Football 2K8, but neither were the same. Both were small-budget releases with nothing but little updates over the previous editions (aside from the well done load and fire batting system in MVP 06).
While MLB: The Show is a fantastic series, I'm still waiting for MVP to come back. 2K's MLB franchise is a joke, and looking it up, the deal is apparently up in 2012. I cannot wait. #sports
@AErikson: I've been playing through All-Pro 2K8 the past couple of weeks, and it is a disappointing effort even before considering the lack of a license. I get the sense that Visual Concepts held back on it, knowing that it was going to tank at retail without the license. I don't believe 2K will win or even deserves to win its lawsuit against EA, but I'd be lying if I said I'd be disappointed should it happen. #sports
Of course a companies that produce game of the year quality are going to be incomparable with the past. They push themselves to new levels, they reinvent, and create a product that generally cant be compared to the original because they've outdone themselves.
Any sports game that had this type of reinvention of itself would seem to be a master of the genre, especially in a genre that just repackages and reproduces the same crap over and over again. The players of 2k5 just saw an advancement and are waiting for a jump of equal proportions before they can let the 2k5 name die.
But this is all my opinion, and I'll admit, I'm not a sport, or sports game fan, so I could biased, or I could be impartial, it's hard to say. We rarely see the full truth when blinded by hidden prejudices.
@chapmanbobby001: It's interesting to me that you declare the genre "just repackages and reproduces the same crap over and over again," when you later say "I'm not a sport or sports game fan." If you don't even play these games, how can you even say that? #sports
Sports games could be much better than what they currently are. The main thing missing is a good single player experience.
They should integrate a role-playing game with the sports game, and I'm surprised they have never done that. Make NBA The Journey, or something like that and have it where you grow up, level up, and eventually make it into the NBA. Have it be open world like a GTA so you can explore your hood.
Make it possible to go the wrong direction by choosing the wrong path in life where you could end up just making the D-League, playing YMCA basketball, or just playing with all the new talent coming up in the hood instead of ever making the NBA.
New Game+ could be where you end up having children and living through them to try to make them the best player they can be, certain stats would carry over that would mimic knowledge you had gained on your first playthrough to make the journey to the NBA a bit easier.
Make money a factor, instead of buying guns like in GTA you could buy Jordan camp trips, sneakers, and other gear. Car accidents or drug deals gone bad could leave you injured which would affect your stats. After a 60 point high school basketball game the neighborhood would be buzzing, mcdonalds team would come knocking, and the possibilities are really endless.
I think all sports fans would be floored by a game mode like this and the competition would be so far away instead of it just being a toss up of which sports game is best. It would be clear that your development team actually put some thought and work into the title you're releasing. #sports
12/06/09
You people have no idea how difficult it is to root for 'the BJ's'.
11/15/09
Ever.
That said, I'm honestly surprised that (and this could have been done already, I wouldn't know) some of these sports titles haven't taken the "Tony Hawk" route and incorporated some manner of Story Mode.
Start out as a regular high school football/baseball/basketball/whatever player, get your stats up to get recruited by a college team, repeat, sign with the majors, go for the superbowl/wolrd series, etc.
It seems like a good way to squeeze a little more narrative into a genre where you're basically paying full-price, year after year, for updated stats and rosters . #sports
11/15/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
I won't be playing an NFL title again until Visual Concepts gets the license back. To hell with madden. #sports
11/14/09
11/15/09
Do people still update and download rosters for 2K5? I might go re-buy it, as I had Madden 10 and after playing it for two weeks returned it. It's a broken game. #sports
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/14/09
It's worked to keep PES an option in a category where EA's FIFA really has the money and the influence to get the licenses they want. #sports
11/14/09
11/16/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
The thing is, NHL or FIFA are actually excellent videogames on top of being excellent simulations of the sport. They are fast-paced and require tons of strategy and fast reflexes. The control is fine tuned and allows simple basic operations and very complex manuevers. There are tons of modes with near endless depth. Etc. For my money, FIFA 10 is one of this year's top games.
11/14/09
11/14/09
There needs to be some form of anti-trust action taken for this sort of stuff, lol. #sports
11/14/09
Still, I understand your frustration with a predatory business deal that has diminished the quality and quantity of selection. #sports
11/14/09
[www.nfl2k5rosters.com] #sports
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
And I think you're right, Owen, in that it has something to do with storytelling-- we consider that an essential criterion for a game that could win GOTY. Sports games simply don't tell stories; they create structures in which the gamer can tell a story. That, of course, brings us back to NFL 2k5, which used the ESPN format to come closer than any other football title to telling a story. It gets my nod as Sports Game of the Decade.
11/14/09
This isn't necessarily true. Real sports certainly do have narratives - multiple ones at any given time - and I would *love it* if any sports game really tried to model this in both a realistic (ie. non-cheesy) and in-depth way. Some EA games have started to do it; the whole "player happiness" and "media reaction" things are *parts* of the real-life narrative of sports, but these are basically just treated as score modifiers right now in most sports games.
It would be great if sports games had real, multiple storylines that ran throughout your career (so you could really get to "know" the players involved over the years), that changed depending on your actions, that affected gameplay and were an integral part of the game rather than an afterthought. Like, I want to see players shooting themselves in the leg at nightclubs in the off-season. Or deciding to retire, then un-retire, then retire again, then un-retire again. Throw some wrinkles like that into your team management!
This is probably the last frontier in sports games - everything else has been done. I feel like all EA's doing in all their sports games anymore is improving the graphics and adding a new move or two each year that just makes the controls more complex. #sports
11/14/09
11/14/09
Later, MVP Baseball 05 was released, easily the best baseball game I will ever play. The perfect combination of simulation and playability, I must've put in 1000 hours into it, at the very least. Online play was tons of fun, dynasty mode was a blast, and the PC version was updated yearly (MVP 06 and 07 were quality).
These franchises were sadly ripped away from the market. I actually picked up the MVP NCAA games and enjoyed them quite a bit, as well as All Pro Football 2K8, but neither were the same. Both were small-budget releases with nothing but little updates over the previous editions (aside from the well done load and fire batting system in MVP 06).
While MLB: The Show is a fantastic series, I'm still waiting for MVP to come back. 2K's MLB franchise is a joke, and looking it up, the deal is apparently up in 2012. I cannot wait. #sports
11/14/09
11/14/09
Any sports game that had this type of reinvention of itself would seem to be a master of the genre, especially in a genre that just repackages and reproduces the same crap over and over again. The players of 2k5 just saw an advancement and are waiting for a jump of equal proportions before they can let the 2k5 name die.
But this is all my opinion, and I'll admit, I'm not a sport, or sports game fan, so I could biased, or I could be impartial, it's hard to say. We rarely see the full truth when blinded by hidden prejudices.
11/14/09
11/14/09
They should integrate a role-playing game with the sports game, and I'm surprised they have never done that. Make NBA The Journey, or something like that and have it where you grow up, level up, and eventually make it into the NBA. Have it be open world like a GTA so you can explore your hood.
Make it possible to go the wrong direction by choosing the wrong path in life where you could end up just making the D-League, playing YMCA basketball, or just playing with all the new talent coming up in the hood instead of ever making the NBA.
New Game+ could be where you end up having children and living through them to try to make them the best player they can be, certain stats would carry over that would mimic knowledge you had gained on your first playthrough to make the journey to the NBA a bit easier.
Make money a factor, instead of buying guns like in GTA you could buy Jordan camp trips, sneakers, and other gear. Car accidents or drug deals gone bad could leave you injured which would affect your stats. After a 60 point high school basketball game the neighborhood would be buzzing, mcdonalds team would come knocking, and the possibilities are really endless.
I think all sports fans would be floored by a game mode like this and the competition would be so far away instead of it just being a toss up of which sports game is best. It would be clear that your development team actually put some thought and work into the title you're releasing. #sports
11/14/09
I would buy that. #sports
11/14/09