I think this is the first time thus far in MW2 game club that I have actually enjoyed ALL of the levels up for discussion.
At the end of Loose Ends I have to say that betrayal was intense, I was struggling for my life and was happy to see the chopper to get me the heck out of there, with Ghost pulling me along making sure I would get out alive, you know, watching out for me.
And as "I'm going to make it" came over me as Shepard approached to "help" BAM! Shepard shoots me. The emotion evoked in me was I imagine what IW was aiming for. a mix of "wtf?! "you son of a bitch!" and "Nooo!"
And it was awful as you see Ghost say "no!" as I get shot, then get shot himself a moment later.
Also the sinking feeling I got when I was lying on the ground and they tossed Ghost's body down next to me in slow-mo was incredibly depressing.
Then as Shepard approached with the cigar I thought "no...oh no..hes not going to--"
Before I knew it flames engufled Roach and Ghost burning them alive.
At this point I really wanted to kill Shepard. I nearly forgot about Makarov and I just REALLY wanted to kill Shepard.
I really hate it that gamers make themselves out to be the victim's of Greedy game companies when its THERE fault this is happening in the first place.
Would this be happening if gamers didn't show to the companies that they will buy into so called "Unlock Patches" en mass? No, it would not be.
Say what you will, but in the end people are going to and always will be willing to pay for something that they don't have off the bat that they like the looks of it.
Maybe it also has to do with the sense of entitlement (PC) gamers have built up over the years. That game makers owe them for supporting them and thier games, so they expect to be treated to features and free content that those on consoles ether don't get or have to pay for. But things change.
this all being said i think it is all leading up to a second round at Stalingrad in the nest MW that would be a sight... the next Battle of Stalingrad MW style...
Second sun was like Stalingrad A.K.A D.C. it was amazing to see the U.S. capitol in ruins... I am a proud american but it was good to see our ass get handed in such a visceral way... tattered hands, last clip, final stand... until Mr. Price's ridiculous firefighting techniques... running from a rain of metal and destruction... mans reliance on technology to make war becoming obsolete, reverting to old methods of war and almost shooting a man because he never identifies himself...
Ironsights and wide eyes are the flavor of the level... I loved the scene where you come upon the fellow stuck in the APC hilarious... the scene where foley goes bad ass and throws the flare into the road to illuminate and surprise the others... pitch black firefights from 5 meters away in a cubicle this was all on veteran and it was fucking awesome... needless to say I loved this level...
Whiskey Hotel was awesome... more of the same I really enjoyed the score throughout the rush to the top but it was more of the same as Second Sun... assaulting the presidents home...
P.O.ed about this level... I didn't want to see Ghost or myself die... damn it shepard your a broken man... they should made his ass retire after the nuke destroyed his first army... asshole... It was standard call of duty right up until the lighting me on fire and the other U.S. troops being ok with it... Were those other 141's then the U.S. 141 are not to be trusted and I now find myself hating my own people...
Shepard is a broken man with motives of revenge... I didn't see the need to kill off the S.A.S. members they might have actually sympathized with him if he had let them in on the loop... one thing I don't understand did he give Makarov the ACS? to start the war with Russia? did he inform Makarov of
Foley within their cadre at the airport?
I did not see the twist comming. I thought it added to the story, but also suspected it was a bit "PC". Can't just make the US/UK look like the herioc good guys while making all of the bad guys non-Western. So show there are bad guys over here as well.
Well, that's my suspicion at least.
Other than that, I enjoyed the defense part. So much of FPS games are about attacking enemy encampments or progressing through heavily defended corridors. It's nice to change the pace ocassionally. It allows for a chance to think not "how can I attack something," but, "how can I defend it."
I got stuck in the house during Loose Ends. Pinned down by fire and unable to get ahead of the waves of enemies. The game also autosaved me in some odd situations, with baddies coming from multiple directions and only seconds away. At least they almost always did the same thing each time.
Slogging my way through that, only to get shot in the head and set on fire by my supposed rescue was easily the most annoying part of that game.
I've heard different theories, but I'm wondering if there is any consensus yet: Was Makarov working for Shepard the whole time?
@Yonderboy: I believe Markaov and Shephard were in on it together, for different reasons. They basically used one another, although Shephard decides that he needs to take out all of his "loose ends," which include Roach and Ghost and presumably Makarov himself.
@Yonderboy: Makarov, being a sympathizer of Zakhaev, wanted chaos in America. Shepard was pissed by how the U.S. government "just fuckin' watched" after Zakhaev's nuclear strike in the first game, and wanted complete control over the Army and a blank check.
So Shepard helps Makarov get his war: he places Joseph Allen in Makarov's unit, telling Allen that he'll be an undercover operative, when really he and Makarov want Allen- and thus, America as a whole- to take the fall for one of Makarov's terrorist actions. Relations between the U.S. and Russia are strained because of the first game, and Zakhaev's death has made Russia believe that the U.S. is planning an attack on them. Allen's corpse makes it look like the U.S. is attacking Russia, and they take action- an assault on America.
Makarov gets his war and Shepard gets his blank check, but Shepard wants to be seen as a hero. He has Task Force 141 collect Makarov's hard drive, containing any and all evidence that could convict him, and kills the 141 agents who got the drive so that there could be no evidence linking him to the crime. At the same time, he sets up a deal with Makarov that is actually a trap- he now wants to kill Makarov so that he can't speak out about Shepard's crimes.
Second Sun and Whiskey Hotel were amazing to me. The whole EMP scenario blew my mind. The second time I played through I ran around looking at the sky and things eventually dropped on me.
I thought the territory-defense of Loose Ends was far more fun than that of COD4 at the ferris wheel in chernobyl.
The twist at the end of Loose Ends was very unexpected, and I really liked it, minus feeling incredibly helpless. It stood out as one of the better twists in recent memory.
In terms of spoilers: I don't see anywhere listed what the protocol is or is expected to be. And I thought these clubs were put together to allow people to talk about the spoilers so they are less inclined to throw them into all the other MW2 coverage.
For my two cents, I liked how betrayal was a recurring theme in this one. Seemed to me, along with what seemed to me be an increasing use of very sarcastic/ironic historical "death" quotes as the game progressed, that IW was trying to make a statement on the nature of our modern military complex. Maybe they weren't, but that's what I took away from it.
First off, I loved the Whiskey Hotel level - its beginning (what with the "fire works") reminded me why I love a certain character so much. I mean, he launched that "fire work(?)" knowing exactly what he was going to do with it. When it was launched I said: 'what the hell is this? There's no way he's gonna be a bad guy' but when I saw the aftermath and understood his plan it reaffirmed that he is one of the best characters in any video game ever. The Whiskey Hotel level as a whole was also one of my favorites in the game - I loved the power outage and how eerily quite everything was. Like the rest of the game it was much more 'fantastical' than the first but I felt this level more than any other portrayed the aftermath of a 'bad-situation-turned-worse' better than any other.
Alright, as for the plot twist I've got two words: BULL SHIT. I thought the game pretty much nose dived right at the twist. It completely undermined the rest of the plot - in terms of Makarov's overall presence (the whole purpose of "The only easy day was yesterday" and "Gulag" was to find the one person that could get to Makarov and suddenly that whole thing disappeared.) I actually lost interest in the single player story at this point. The levels were still awesome (repelling down the cliff for example) but the story just became awful. What was the point of the twist, really? Makarov had like one more line of dialogue after the twist happened. The plot completely changed and after three playthroughs I cannot grasp why. I know WHY the plot twist happened in terms of the game's fiction but I can't figure out why it was necessary. What was the point? MW1's plot was basic; you had a clearly identifiable villain who was easy to despise and his actions all made sense. MW2's plot abruptly became a terrible season of 24. I get that a third game is inevitable and Makarov will probably be more of a presence in that game but the twist nullified any real antagonist the game had. One was introduced and built up to be some super boogeyman and then dropped off the map and the other was just 'what the f--k just happened?' stupid. This was a terrible twist and it ruined what was building to be a good (if over the top) story about unrelenting evil. One minute your storming Makarov's safehouse the next he's disappeared and gone for the remainder of the game - isn't he still out there? Isn't the US still under attack? Sure they repelled them out of DC but aren't the Russian's still on the East coast? But none of those questions are answered for the sole purpose of introducing a preposterous and wholly unnecessary second villain...
Interestingly enough though, even though the end of 'Loose Ends' destroyed any enjoyment I got out of the remainder of the plot I really liked the level. I completely agree that this was a territory defense type level that worked perfectly - if more games could pull of defense levels with this type of enjoyment I'd be a happier gamer. I cannot tell you the number of times I've played a level like this only to run out of ammo or get stuck in a corner because the game didn't inform me of the coming onslaught and I was ill prepared. I think the genius of this level is the fact that there is a huge supply of weapons to experiment with and plenty of traps available to you in order to better defend yourself.
These were some great levels in terms of entertainment value, with great action and amazing set pieces but the plot, oh the plot. I don't know what the guys at Infinity Ward were thinking (or smoking) when they wrote that turd into the plot but I'll tell you right now, when I first heard about MW2 the part of the game I was most excited for was the story and to see where they would go with it - when MW3 comes around it'll be the part I will be looking forward to the least. It was that stupid and pointless.
The twist was sudden, but it didn't affect me much. He seemed kinda shady from the start, you know? Standing there with his big shining revolver and all, talking about the victors writing history. Those characters never turn out well. Perhaps if I'd worked together with him more with him acting like a good guy, and maybe him saving my life a few times, the twist would've affected me more. I just wasn't attached enough to care about it.
The execution, now that was moving. Watching them pour gasoline in your and throw down the lit cigar, and then burning, just wow. I could almost feel the excruciating pain. Also Ghost was awesome. A tear goes out to him.
I repeat what I said before about the ISS. Such hard work, such effort, yet such fragility.
I was kinda embarrassed of myself when I didn't realize the Whiskey Hotel referred to the White House until we actually got there. I thought they meant a hotel with whiskey in it. Calm their nerves, you know? *blush*
Defense level was pretty cool, but a tad annoying. I did like placing the claymores around. It got really difficult though, I kept dying. That's why it was annoying I guess. The jumpy download meter gave me a chuckle, it's juuust like real life. Conveniently timed too, slowed way down for the last 1%.
Also, I enjoyed the mini segment where you're stuck in the crashed helicopter, desperately fighting with your last few rounds, swarms of Russians moving in. It was a really Blackhawk Down moment. I knew what was going to happen basically (something was gonna save us), but judging by CoD4's Nuke mission I thought maybe I'd actually die. It was intense. And then suddenly I see a white flash, and my character is able to sprint about freely again, as if nothing had happened. Helicopter crash? What helicopter crash? That bothered me a bit. Dodging crashing planes was awesome though.
I finished the single-player on "Regular" difficulty last week. I was mildly disappointed, but still wanted to revisit some of my favorite levels and collect trophies.
So I started from scratch with the goals of finishing the game with "Veteran" difficulty and collecting all the intel.
Wow. **This** is how the game should be played. Firefights are much more rewarding and I'm spending much more time exploring and enjoying the levels and gameplay.
Also, the second time through I'm appreciating the narrative arc more now that I know where it's going. It's very similar to reading a good novel or watching a film again. Picking up subtleties and details I missed the first time around really makes for a rewarding experience.
So, for everyone who blasted through the "Regular" or "Hardened" campaigns and were a little disappointed, like me, up the difficulty and get the intel. It's really made it a whole new and better game, IMHO.
I don't want to be up in space if I can't move around. Not even a sly glimpse of a UFO, for the inevitable zombie mode in MW3.
Then again, Modern Warfare 2 seemed to be full of these moments. Far too often I'd find myself watching things happen that I couldn't interact with. Henceforth to be referred to as the hamster effect.
Interestingly, the best moments of MW2 seemed to happen when you had this lack of control, though. The defence of the WW2 memorial (if that's what it was), for example, played almost exactly like chapter 2 and I found it to be extremely enjoyable, and one of the few realistic set-pieces in the game.
And then, Loose Ends. This is where the game lost me, unfortunately. The hamster effect rears its ugly head once more - even when you're dead - and the ridiculousness of the plot twist occurs. I understand that game developers want their games to be as big as action movies, but it's just a shame that we're beginning to venture in to the land of video-game quality movies.
@Fallible.: People keep touting this as a disrupting the Russian logistics thing, when it was anything but that.
We already know the World is pretty pissed off about the whole CIA agent causing terrorism thing in Russia - pissed off enough to let Russia walk right in to America with no retaliation. Basically, a 'big fire' was started when Russia invaded.
Price realized he had to start a bigger fire, and make it appear as if the Russians had decided to go nuclear as the nuke was being launched from Russia - which is an act that would quickly turn world opinion back on Russia, and not allow them to continue their act of aggression against the U.S.
While it had the effect of wiping out communications and other devices used in a modern setting, I don't think that was the focus. It was just a lot safer to do that than to wipe out the city outright.
I saw the plot twist in KOTOR coming. Though it was still very surprising and I liked it a lot. The plot twist in MW2, I saw coming and felt was generic.
03:27 PM
At the end of Loose Ends I have to say that betrayal was intense, I was struggling for my life and was happy to see the chopper to get me the heck out of there, with Ghost pulling me along making sure I would get out alive, you know, watching out for me.
And as "I'm going to make it" came over me as Shepard approached to "help" BAM! Shepard shoots me. The emotion evoked in me was I imagine what IW was aiming for. a mix of "wtf?! "you son of a bitch!" and "Nooo!"
And it was awful as you see Ghost say "no!" as I get shot, then get shot himself a moment later.
Also the sinking feeling I got when I was lying on the ground and they tossed Ghost's body down next to me in slow-mo was incredibly depressing.
Then as Shepard approached with the cigar I thought "no...oh no..hes not going to--"
Before I knew it flames engufled Roach and Ghost burning them alive.
At this point I really wanted to kill Shepard. I nearly forgot about Makarov and I just REALLY wanted to kill Shepard.
03:20 PM
Would this be happening if gamers didn't show to the companies that they will buy into so called "Unlock Patches" en mass? No, it would not be.
Say what you will, but in the end people are going to and always will be willing to pay for something that they don't have off the bat that they like the looks of it.
Maybe it also has to do with the sense of entitlement (PC) gamers have built up over the years. That game makers owe them for supporting them and thier games, so they expect to be treated to features and free content that those on consoles ether don't get or have to pay for. But things change.
03:05 PM
02:58 PM
Ironsights and wide eyes are the flavor of the level... I loved the scene where you come upon the fellow stuck in the APC hilarious... the scene where foley goes bad ass and throws the flare into the road to illuminate and surprise the others... pitch black firefights from 5 meters away in a cubicle this was all on veteran and it was fucking awesome... needless to say I loved this level...
Whiskey Hotel was awesome... more of the same I really enjoyed the score throughout the rush to the top but it was more of the same as Second Sun... assaulting the presidents home...
P.O.ed about this level... I didn't want to see Ghost or myself die... damn it shepard your a broken man... they should made his ass retire after the nuke destroyed his first army... asshole... It was standard call of duty right up until the lighting me on fire and the other U.S. troops being ok with it... Were those other 141's then the U.S. 141 are not to be trusted and I now find myself hating my own people...
Shepard is a broken man with motives of revenge... I didn't see the need to kill off the S.A.S. members they might have actually sympathized with him if he had let them in on the loop... one thing I don't understand did he give Makarov the ACS? to start the war with Russia? did he inform Makarov of
Foley within their cadre at the airport?
02:55 PM
Well, that's my suspicion at least.
Other than that, I enjoyed the defense part. So much of FPS games are about attacking enemy encampments or progressing through heavily defended corridors. It's nice to change the pace ocassionally. It allows for a chance to think not "how can I attack something," but, "how can I defend it."
02:54 PM
Slogging my way through that, only to get shot in the head and set on fire by my supposed rescue was easily the most annoying part of that game.
I've heard different theories, but I'm wondering if there is any consensus yet: Was Makarov working for Shepard the whole time?
02:56 PM
03:21 PM
So Shepard helps Makarov get his war: he places Joseph Allen in Makarov's unit, telling Allen that he'll be an undercover operative, when really he and Makarov want Allen- and thus, America as a whole- to take the fall for one of Makarov's terrorist actions. Relations between the U.S. and Russia are strained because of the first game, and Zakhaev's death has made Russia believe that the U.S. is planning an attack on them. Allen's corpse makes it look like the U.S. is attacking Russia, and they take action- an assault on America.
Makarov gets his war and Shepard gets his blank check, but Shepard wants to be seen as a hero. He has Task Force 141 collect Makarov's hard drive, containing any and all evidence that could convict him, and kills the 141 agents who got the drive so that there could be no evidence linking him to the crime. At the same time, he sets up a deal with Makarov that is actually a trap- he now wants to kill Makarov so that he can't speak out about Shepard's crimes.
Whew.
02:52 PM
I thought the territory-defense of Loose Ends was far more fun than that of COD4 at the ferris wheel in chernobyl.
The twist at the end of Loose Ends was very unexpected, and I really liked it, minus feeling incredibly helpless. It stood out as one of the better twists in recent memory.
In terms of spoilers: I don't see anywhere listed what the protocol is or is expected to be. And I thought these clubs were put together to allow people to talk about the spoilers so they are less inclined to throw them into all the other MW2 coverage.
02:46 PM
Seems like it would have made more sense to just rip the cables off the computer, take it, and get the hell out before the firefight.
02:44 PM
02:48 PM
02:44 PM
Alright, as for the plot twist I've got two words: BULL SHIT. I thought the game pretty much nose dived right at the twist. It completely undermined the rest of the plot - in terms of Makarov's overall presence (the whole purpose of "The only easy day was yesterday" and "Gulag" was to find the one person that could get to Makarov and suddenly that whole thing disappeared.) I actually lost interest in the single player story at this point. The levels were still awesome (repelling down the cliff for example) but the story just became awful. What was the point of the twist, really? Makarov had like one more line of dialogue after the twist happened. The plot completely changed and after three playthroughs I cannot grasp why. I know WHY the plot twist happened in terms of the game's fiction but I can't figure out why it was necessary. What was the point? MW1's plot was basic; you had a clearly identifiable villain who was easy to despise and his actions all made sense. MW2's plot abruptly became a terrible season of 24. I get that a third game is inevitable and Makarov will probably be more of a presence in that game but the twist nullified any real antagonist the game had. One was introduced and built up to be some super boogeyman and then dropped off the map and the other was just 'what the f--k just happened?' stupid. This was a terrible twist and it ruined what was building to be a good (if over the top) story about unrelenting evil. One minute your storming Makarov's safehouse the next he's disappeared and gone for the remainder of the game - isn't he still out there? Isn't the US still under attack? Sure they repelled them out of DC but aren't the Russian's still on the East coast? But none of those questions are answered for the sole purpose of introducing a preposterous and wholly unnecessary second villain...
Interestingly enough though, even though the end of 'Loose Ends' destroyed any enjoyment I got out of the remainder of the plot I really liked the level. I completely agree that this was a territory defense type level that worked perfectly - if more games could pull of defense levels with this type of enjoyment I'd be a happier gamer. I cannot tell you the number of times I've played a level like this only to run out of ammo or get stuck in a corner because the game didn't inform me of the coming onslaught and I was ill prepared. I think the genius of this level is the fact that there is a huge supply of weapons to experiment with and plenty of traps available to you in order to better defend yourself.
These were some great levels in terms of entertainment value, with great action and amazing set pieces but the plot, oh the plot. I don't know what the guys at Infinity Ward were thinking (or smoking) when they wrote that turd into the plot but I'll tell you right now, when I first heard about MW2 the part of the game I was most excited for was the story and to see where they would go with it - when MW3 comes around it'll be the part I will be looking forward to the least. It was that stupid and pointless.
02:28 PM
The execution, now that was moving. Watching them pour gasoline in your and throw down the lit cigar, and then burning, just wow. I could almost feel the excruciating pain. Also Ghost was awesome. A tear goes out to him.
I repeat what I said before about the ISS. Such hard work, such effort, yet such fragility.
I was kinda embarrassed of myself when I didn't realize the Whiskey Hotel referred to the White House until we actually got there. I thought they meant a hotel with whiskey in it. Calm their nerves, you know? *blush*
Defense level was pretty cool, but a tad annoying. I did like placing the claymores around. It got really difficult though, I kept dying. That's why it was annoying I guess. The jumpy download meter gave me a chuckle, it's juuust like real life. Conveniently timed too, slowed way down for the last 1%.
Also, I enjoyed the mini segment where you're stuck in the crashed helicopter, desperately fighting with your last few rounds, swarms of Russians moving in. It was a really Blackhawk Down moment. I knew what was going to happen basically (something was gonna save us), but judging by CoD4's Nuke mission I thought maybe I'd actually die. It was intense. And then suddenly I see a white flash, and my character is able to sprint about freely again, as if nothing had happened. Helicopter crash? What helicopter crash? That bothered me a bit. Dodging crashing planes was awesome though.
03:00 PM
Everything else you wrote, well put, I agree wholeheartedly.
02:26 PM
So I started from scratch with the goals of finishing the game with "Veteran" difficulty and collecting all the intel.
Wow. **This** is how the game should be played. Firefights are much more rewarding and I'm spending much more time exploring and enjoying the levels and gameplay.
Also, the second time through I'm appreciating the narrative arc more now that I know where it's going. It's very similar to reading a good novel or watching a film again. Picking up subtleties and details I missed the first time around really makes for a rewarding experience.
So, for everyone who blasted through the "Regular" or "Hardened" campaigns and were a little disappointed, like me, up the difficulty and get the intel. It's really made it a whole new and better game, IMHO.
02:25 PM
I don't want to be up in space if I can't move around. Not even a sly glimpse of a UFO, for the inevitable zombie mode in MW3.
Then again, Modern Warfare 2 seemed to be full of these moments. Far too often I'd find myself watching things happen that I couldn't interact with. Henceforth to be referred to as the hamster effect.
Interestingly, the best moments of MW2 seemed to happen when you had this lack of control, though. The defence of the WW2 memorial (if that's what it was), for example, played almost exactly like chapter 2 and I found it to be extremely enjoyable, and one of the few realistic set-pieces in the game.
And then, Loose Ends. This is where the game lost me, unfortunately. The hamster effect rears its ugly head once more - even when you're dead - and the ridiculousness of the plot twist occurs. I understand that game developers want their games to be as big as action movies, but it's just a shame that we're beginning to venture in to the land of video-game quality movies.
03:33 PM
We already know the World is pretty pissed off about the whole CIA agent causing terrorism thing in Russia - pissed off enough to let Russia walk right in to America with no retaliation. Basically, a 'big fire' was started when Russia invaded.
Price realized he had to start a bigger fire, and make it appear as if the Russians had decided to go nuclear as the nuke was being launched from Russia - which is an act that would quickly turn world opinion back on Russia, and not allow them to continue their act of aggression against the U.S.
While it had the effect of wiping out communications and other devices used in a modern setting, I don't think that was the focus. It was just a lot safer to do that than to wipe out the city outright.
02:23 PM
02:20 PM