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Denver, 12:30 PM
Sun Nov 15
20 posts in the last 24 hours
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09/11/09
They actually dock points from you if you kill the suspect after you interrogate/torture them...
WTF?
If anything you should be getting bonuses for burning people alive and decapitating them with windows!
09/11/09
09/11/09
I'd even go as far as to say that Jack Thompson's "murder simulators" accusation holds a little bit credence because playing tons of violent games will desensitize you to violence, and if the flow of a game regularly goes to torturing to get what you want, it will at least come to mind in such a situation in real life... his big failing is assuming that people will then go emulate it - that's a personal moral decision that's separate from inflicting it on avatars and NPCs, and the responsibility is entirely that of the person doing it.
Also... in Punisher you can CHROME A GUY'S HEAD... that doesn't even work in reality - it's cartoon torture and in my opinion, hilariously over the top. I think the presentation makes a big difference about what is disturbing or unacceptable.
09/11/09
2nd, "..accusation holds a little bit credence because playing tons of violent games will desensitize you to violence"
It does, but only to more fake videogame/movie violence.
The real thing is to much for most people that try to act "internet hardcore."
Which is part of why I won't work in hospitals anymore...the real thing sticks with you...
09/11/09
09/11/09
Force Unleashed (may God curse its name forever more), is a good example. I had great fun hovering stormtroopers over great chasms whilst they writhed in my force grip, only to zap them with lightning, flip them high into the air, and watch them plummet to their doom.
Prototype, as well. I'm not as bloodthirsty in it as my flatmate (quite disturbing from a guy who's generally quite peaceful and is also vegetarian), and in fact I usually do my best to avoid civilian casualties, but there's something perversely amusing about grabbing a bystander and running up every tall building you can whilst they writhe deseperately in your grip, before flinging them off into the distance.
...Then again, maybe I have issues. But, on a serious note, would anyone else consider these actions to be torture? Really, they are. The player is causing lengthy stress and pain to the characters. Is that 'okay', whereas doing it in a scripted scene or event isn't? Or would those decrying these torture scenes never do such a thing in a video game?
09/11/09
09/11/09
It's 2009. It's gone past the stage where games are merely a categorically fun experience. There are many other artistic avenues to be explored, and there is no reason why playing a game shouldn't make you intensely uncomfortable in certain circumstances.
If a game puts me in the shoes of a torturer, and makes an intelligent point whilst doing so, then I am all for it. If it throws in gratuitous torture scenes for no reason, that's a different matter.
09/11/09
09/11/09
09/11/09
Hence we have extraordinary rendition, and men like the Birmingham Six can spend 16 years of their lives in prison for crimes they didn't commit.
09/10/09
The use of torture in Brink seems to be like this. "Surprise, we're deeper and more thoughtful than you expected!" Nah. Just a cheap move.
We'll see how the full game handles it.
09/10/09
09/11/09
The Geneva Convention defines torture along the lines of any act which causes "extreme physical or mental anguish".
The problem is when you start trying to draw the line at SOME pain being acceptable. For instance, you claim that tasing isn't torture because it's not as bad as smashing someone's toes with a hammer. I grant you that smashing someone's toes is worse than tasing, but that doesn't mean tasing someone to gain information isn't torture.
Frankly, to address your statement and answer AJ's implicit question in one fell swoop I will say this: any use of physical or mental pain to gain information is torture, plain and simple.
When you start trying to allow some things you end up with the "rule" that existed in most iraqi interrogation camps which was "No Blood, No Foul." In other words they drew a line at a place they deemed reasonable. Unfortunately they could commit horrible acts, such as extreme sleep deprivation, which sounds relatively benign until you hear descriptions of it, without drawing blood. If I had to choose between having my toes smashed or putting up with literally weeks of what some of those detainees had to go through.... well I just might take the hammer.
09/11/09
Inflicting any degree of pain or stress (mental or physical) on a person, particularly for any length of time, particularly to meet some agenda, is torture, plain and simple. I don't think there should ever really be a discussion as to what 'counts' as torture.
A discussion about whether or not it's 'okay'? Sure. Though I don't think it's ever really 'okay'. Useful? That's debatable, too.
09/10/09
Some people still don't know the difference between fantasy and reality. If there happens to be a feature of the game that doesn't agree with you, you're not forced to buy it. You don't have to look at it, write about it, or play it!
Making "soccer mom" rants like this does nothing to promote a healthy game industry. It only invites censorship attacks and restricts developers.
09/10/09
That doesn't make the Bad Thing good, or absolve the people who've done it. instead, they acknowledge the evil they've done, they accept the punishment and consequences, knowing that they had a very good reason for it.
gratuitous and needless torture is completely indefensible, of course.
09/10/09
Torture is hands down never defensible. It doesn't provide information, it's simply inhumane and evil.
The fact that you claim that torturers hae ever had a good reason for what they've done is probably the worst part of it all.
Torture is counterproductive in intelligence gathering, and has never, in any situation, been proven to be effective, no matter what Dick Cheney says.
This sentiment, that it's ok to do bad things for the greater good, that the ends justify the means is exactly what's wrong with America right now. We're in the middle of a moral war, and we're trying to use immoral tactics to win. It's incredibly stupid.
Though I was extremely excited to play Brink I never will, unless the torture (and whatever euphemisms they use that's what it is) is removed, or optional and ineffective.
Placing you in the shoes of a torturer could be an interesting learning experience, but I doubt that's what it will be. You'll perform something unspeakable upon an enemy combatant and benefit from it, contrary to what would happen in reality. Go team.
09/10/09
09/10/09
There is a line, at least a personal line for me, and some of these games go awfully close to, if not over, it.
It's one thing to do it to aliens or clearly cartoony situations. As we edge toward something approaching a form of realism, the rules change a bit.
09/10/09
Argh! This logic! It hurts my brain!
Sometimes people need to sit back and just accept and enjoy dark things as part of a collective story instead of trying to justify them. Was eating hearts in The Darkness a "good" thing to do? No, but it was damn cool, and tied in neatly with the overall atmosphere of that game. I didn't need to keep telling myself "oh man this is bad but this guy probably touched kids" to justify my fun.
09/10/09