Sonic Heroes on the PS2 was one of the worst games only because it was buggy as all hell. If you want to appease old school fans of the series, you have to go back to 2D or 2.5D... there's no other way.
I have no idea how you would reinvent Sonic in 3D, maybe it just can't be done properly unless you outsource the game to a rabid studio with an insane budget and immeasurable time period to make the game.
While we're at it here, why not a Sonic fighting game?
Sure, Sonic Fighter has been done, and we've seen Sonic in Brawl, but what about a new direction?
How about a technical fighter with purely 2-D sprites, with 2-D backgrounds? (That means 2-D, again, as doing away with 3-D elements would keep it 2-D, rather than a 2.5-D or 3-D look. When I think of it, the Guilty Gear series comes to mind, which has shown, time and again, the true beauty in 2-D fighters.)
If Sega isn't going toward a 'To-The-Roots' direction of the series, they may as well capitalize on the already large amount of characters, back-drops, scenery, story, etc. and implement it in a fighter with a wide variety of elements. It would work out very nicely, if it is made seamlessly, of course.
Just take a look at how many characters there could be! They have enough back-story to qualify themselves for a themed fighter! [en.wikipedia.org])&redirect=no
(At a short glance, actually, because there are WAY more characters in the Sonic Universe, and comics. Note that the list is of recurring characters, so others not listed can apply in any way, such as one time appearances, playable characters, cameos, or any other way.)
Any thoughts on this? Just a simple idea I have here, so please be nice, and please share how this may/may not contradict current market strategies, and share your thoughts on other directions that may also be taken.
“Critics who treat "adult" as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adults themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence....When I was ten, I read fairytales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
— C. S. Lewis,
Well the fans fell in love with Sonic 1, 2, and 3, you don't know how to please your fans then I'd suggest going back to the series' roots. Fun fast gameplay with GREAT Music. Bionic Commando rearmed... well thought out re-image of the original. I don't think that SEGA should start just doing remakes.. but I'd definitely like to see some new Sonic games done in their original style. You won't please everyone, but at least you can please Somebody. Those previous set of Sonic games didn't please anybody.
Also, yes, I agree it's impossible to please all fans... but a better job can be done? Absolutely.
If you can't do at least a decent job trying to please fans of the character, it's better if you create another one from scratch then continue raping the memories of those fans.
Than you can center on games for 8-12yr olds all you want that you'll receive no complaints from faithful fans of the original character.
But I guess it's easier milking an already stabilished franchise, isn't it? Even if it means ignoring the fanbase.
I'm sorry, but what I'm reading on that interview is that the guy conveniently chose a demographic that can't complain about the gameplay and story because they don't know the earlier games, so they can't be critic about it.
Of course kids playing Sonic nowadays won't be able to complain because they don't know how much better the earlier versions where.
Also, comparing it to Modern Warfare 2 or whatever was the worst analogy I've ever read in my entire life.
Sonic was never edgy, and Modern Warfare 2 comes from a new generation of gamers that didn't exist back then.
Sonic was as toy-ish and cartoony as Mario back then, they were in direct competition, and the Sonic fans today are NOT expecting it to compete with Modern Warfare 2.
Most Sonic fans I know are only waiting for, someday maybe, that you clean the game up, eliminate all the added crap that's been piling up since... maybe the 4th installment of the game, and release something that reminds us of the earlier games.
Go back to Mario and pay close attention to what they are really doing.
Today's Mario has the same soul, the same basic gameplay, the same feeling of the first Mario games.
What's the essence of Sonic?
As I can see it, is speed, saving forest creatures, a simple gameplay were he runs lonely through levels without added crap like tons of friends, turning into werewolf, using swords and all that crap.
Everytime a Sega/Sonic post appears, I read tons of comments about Sonic only needs to run.
Guys, Don't you really think there is something missing there?
Attitude. And I don't mean annoyng comments that Sonic spews everytime.
Sonic is speed. Sonic is attitude. He should be little talk, lot of action but not mute, either.
And Sonic not only runs, jumps and spins. He can also skip, dodge, twirl and sprint. BUT with attitude.
Watch the Sonic CD intro, for example.
He's not supposed to be BOUNDED to a road, with his feet glued to the floor either running or grinding. He should be able to dodge, grab, hop and soar with attitude, all the while taking out Badniks with style.
I picture a game of Sonic, sprinting around, and instead of braking into a dead end to only to jump a bit and use the homing spin to take out 3 or 4 badniks, the robots pursue Sonic and he takes them out using the badniks against themselves -since, as we all know, Sonic doesn't (and shouldn't) have weapons. His weapon is his quick wit. All the while sprinting around an open level running wherever you need to run to succesfully take the badniks out, and that means jumping around hilltops, mountains, dodging trees and romping through -or over- lakes, rivers or water.
Sega, don't try to justify your consistent underwhelming Sonic games with that kind of excuses. You're bigger than that. You have the AAA property. You have the loyal fans. Make a good game and loyal fans and new, 12-y/o fans will buy it. And recommend it. More people buy it, not just your kid target audience.
(Note that I only added the link to display the concept of expansive environments in a Sonic game, and to give the idea that a creative, Sonic CD-esque environment design would do much good. Really.)
Your ideas of game-play sounds nice. Sega should really pick up on this, and take notes. Just imagine the possibilities! :D
beg pardon? Was sonic EVER edgy? I know that they clearly meant for him to be, but did anyone out there not find him just to be Sega's answer to Mario?
I was younger and less cynical in those days, and I still didn't think he came across edgy. "Poochy" edgy at best.
This Modern Warfare comparison is sort of like, you know that feeling when you've been in the sun too long, and then you start wacking your forehead with a hammer, and then just as soon as the shrooms start to take effect, you decide to convert to Pentecostalism and start speaking in tongues?
That's how someone who is exposed to this comparison feels.
But as a company, publicly, that's going to be something we're going to be pretty low key about for obvious reasons. We're effectively a different company.
Oh, Sega, why do you still think this is what anyone wants to hear?
"We know fans with money are out there and want a good sonic game.. but were going to pander to the 12 year old demographic who has no money because they dont care and we dont have to try as hard"
@PugOfDoom: Ed does have a point. He is saying that sonic games didn't need a metacritic score of 90 to be good enough for kids. Is he not absolutely right? Look at metacritic games with those scores... the majority of them are most certainly NOT aimed at the younger demographic we're talking about here.
In general, it actually does take less money and effort to produce with enough quality to please the 12 and under crowd that it does to produce acceptable quality to the the more mature audiences. You can make 10 saturday morning cartoons with the money it takes to make one hit series like Lost or Heroes or *insert primetime fave*. Sega is just telling it like it is, which is more than a lot of other companies say. A plan is better than nothing, right?
Even if we find them negligent in their perceived duties to please the core fans (which, of course, they have no duties), they are at least telling us to wait patiently, which we shouldn't have a problem with since we've been doing it since SA2 anyway. This news is better than the silence we've been putting up with for years, I say.
"Trying to put everything into one game and making everybody happy is impossible. And I think that's something clear going forward."
Then how come Mario has been successful at doing it for year, after year after year. Mario has expanded the series to appeal in their more flagship titles to appeal to everyone almost universally. To keep the old school Mario feel, yet to introduce the game and the genre to it's new younger audience.
I think it boils down to this. You're innovating too hard Sega. Just make good games without trying to appeal to anyone. The fans will return.
08/14/09
Crazy Taxi HD.
Those would be the hotness.
(Happy early birthday, Dreamcast. I apologize for selling you off over the hype of the then-impending PS2!)
08/14/09
I have no idea how you would reinvent Sonic in 3D, maybe it just can't be done properly unless you outsource the game to a rabid studio with an insane budget and immeasurable time period to make the game.
08/13/09
Sure, Sonic Fighter has been done, and we've seen Sonic in Brawl, but what about a new direction?
How about a technical fighter with purely 2-D sprites, with 2-D backgrounds? (That means 2-D, again, as doing away with 3-D elements would keep it 2-D, rather than a 2.5-D or 3-D look. When I think of it, the Guilty Gear series comes to mind, which has shown, time and again, the true beauty in 2-D fighters.)
If Sega isn't going toward a 'To-The-Roots' direction of the series, they may as well capitalize on the already large amount of characters, back-drops, scenery, story, etc. and implement it in a fighter with a wide variety of elements. It would work out very nicely, if it is made seamlessly, of course.
Just take a look at how many characters there could be! They have enough back-story to qualify themselves for a themed fighter!
[en.wikipedia.org])&redirect=no
(At a short glance, actually, because there are WAY more characters in the Sonic Universe, and comics. Note that the list is of recurring characters, so others not listed can apply in any way, such as one time appearances, playable characters, cameos, or any other way.)
Any thoughts on this? Just a simple idea I have here, so please be nice, and please share how this may/may not contradict current market strategies, and share your thoughts on other directions that may also be taken.
Thank you! :D
08/13/09
It's THIS thing, below the next paragraph break, if you don't know what I'm talking about. (Just in case.) :P
)
08/13/09
— C. S. Lewis,
If you like it, and it's fun, who gives a damn?
08/13/09
08/13/09
THE MUSIC.
08/13/09
08/13/09
Guys, maybe we ARE getting a bit too old for Sonic games that's why were so bitter. Anyone thought of that?
08/13/09
Not yet anyway.
08/13/09
If Ratcliffe is reading this posts, here goes some pointers to please a bigger crowd.
08/13/09
@Bokusatsu_Tenshi:
08/13/09
If you can't do at least a decent job trying to please fans of the character, it's better if you create another one from scratch then continue raping the memories of those fans.
Than you can center on games for 8-12yr olds all you want that you'll receive no complaints from faithful fans of the original character.
But I guess it's easier milking an already stabilished franchise, isn't it? Even if it means ignoring the fanbase.
I'm sorry, but what I'm reading on that interview is that the guy conveniently chose a demographic that can't complain about the gameplay and story because they don't know the earlier games, so they can't be critic about it.
Of course kids playing Sonic nowadays won't be able to complain because they don't know how much better the earlier versions where.
Also, comparing it to Modern Warfare 2 or whatever was the worst analogy I've ever read in my entire life.
Sonic was never edgy, and Modern Warfare 2 comes from a new generation of gamers that didn't exist back then.
Sonic was as toy-ish and cartoony as Mario back then, they were in direct competition, and the Sonic fans today are NOT expecting it to compete with Modern Warfare 2.
Most Sonic fans I know are only waiting for, someday maybe, that you clean the game up, eliminate all the added crap that's been piling up since... maybe the 4th installment of the game, and release something that reminds us of the earlier games.
Go back to Mario and pay close attention to what they are really doing.
Today's Mario has the same soul, the same basic gameplay, the same feeling of the first Mario games.
What's the essence of Sonic?
As I can see it, is speed, saving forest creatures, a simple gameplay were he runs lonely through levels without added crap like tons of friends, turning into werewolf, using swords and all that crap.
My 2 cents.
08/13/09
Everytime a Sega/Sonic post appears, I read tons of comments about Sonic only needs to run.
Guys, Don't you really think there is something missing there?
Attitude. And I don't mean annoyng comments that Sonic spews everytime.
Sonic is speed. Sonic is attitude. He should be little talk, lot of action but not mute, either.
And Sonic not only runs, jumps and spins. He can also skip, dodge, twirl and sprint. BUT with attitude.
Watch the Sonic CD intro, for example.
He's not supposed to be BOUNDED to a road, with his feet glued to the floor either running or grinding. He should be able to dodge, grab, hop and soar with attitude, all the while taking out Badniks with style.
I picture a game of Sonic, sprinting around, and instead of braking into a dead end to only to jump a bit and use the homing spin to take out 3 or 4 badniks, the robots pursue Sonic and he takes them out using the badniks against themselves -since, as we all know, Sonic doesn't (and shouldn't) have weapons. His weapon is his quick wit. All the while sprinting around an open level running wherever you need to run to succesfully take the badniks out, and that means jumping around hilltops, mountains, dodging trees and romping through -or over- lakes, rivers or water.
Sega, don't try to justify your consistent underwhelming Sonic games with that kind of excuses. You're bigger than that. You have the AAA property. You have the loyal fans. Make a good game and loyal fans and new, 12-y/o fans will buy it. And recommend it. More people buy it, not just your kid target audience.
08/13/09
[kotaku.com]
(Note that I only added the link to display the concept of expansive environments in a Sonic game, and to give the idea that a creative, Sonic CD-esque environment design would do much good. Really.)
Your ideas of game-play sounds nice. Sega should really pick up on this, and take notes. Just imagine the possibilities! :D
08/13/09
I was younger and less cynical in those days, and I still didn't think he came across edgy. "Poochy" edgy at best.
This Modern Warfare comparison is sort of like, you know that feeling when you've been in the sun too long, and then you start wacking your forehead with a hammer, and then just as soon as the shrooms start to take effect, you decide to convert to Pentecostalism and start speaking in tongues?
That's how someone who is exposed to this comparison feels.
08/13/09
Oh, Sega, why do you still think this is what anyone wants to hear?
08/13/09
Hey, Sega, I think I figured out your problem!
08/13/09
08/13/09
08/13/09
In general, it actually does take less money and effort to produce with enough quality to please the 12 and under crowd that it does to produce acceptable quality to the the more mature audiences. You can make 10 saturday morning cartoons with the money it takes to make one hit series like Lost or Heroes or *insert primetime fave*. Sega is just telling it like it is, which is more than a lot of other companies say. A plan is better than nothing, right?
Even if we find them negligent in their perceived duties to please the core fans (which, of course, they have no duties), they are at least telling us to wait patiently, which we shouldn't have a problem with since we've been doing it since SA2 anyway. This news is better than the silence we've been putting up with for years, I say.
08/13/09
Sega just need to stop shoving a gimmick into every release thinking they need it in order to be fresh and original
08/13/09
Then how come Mario has been successful at doing it for year, after year after year. Mario has expanded the series to appeal in their more flagship titles to appeal to everyone almost universally. To keep the old school Mario feel, yet to introduce the game and the genre to it's new younger audience.
I think it boils down to this. You're innovating too hard Sega. Just make good games without trying to appeal to anyone. The fans will return.
Just no more human-sonic love fests please