Problem is, game stories are either written from the perspective of the target audience (12-35 yo) or from the perspective of the lead designer / writer (25-45 yo). As a result, elderly people will always be portrayed the way the these two groups see them in relation to themselves.
Therefore, the elderly male will be the "old guard" Obi-Wan Kenobi style man whose main role is to drop dead early on in the game and pass their "wisdom" on to you. The elderly woman will be the grandmother / caretaker who is there to nurture the hero when they are young and disappear once the hero reaches his/her "heroic" age.
Since a woman must, by law, look good in a bikini before taking a major role in a game, the older woman is relegated to the sidelines, emerging intermittently to provide exposition or beg for coins.
This is not only an issue in video/computer games. The three paragraphs above would just as easily describe Hollywood, television, comic books, etc. Unfortunately, changing this situation would require both developers and players to change their mindset.
At the moment, the only refuge from this plague of youth are games that allow you to change the appearance and back story of the character, like Dragon Age.
Need I mention those games which cast the player in the role of a world leader or general? One of the positive attributes associated with the elderly is authority and influence - it makes more sense to have a 65-year-old general than a 25-year-old. That said, strategy games usually don't foreground the player-character much - perhaps it would be a positive step to do so. It makes sense to have your character as a grizzled veteran on the battlefield, especially in a grittier sort of game - contrast with Warcraft III where half the heroes were Young And Beautiful and most of the others were literally ageless. The only "old-ish" character who actually put in a battlefield appearance was Uther, and we all know what happened to him. #aging
Creating a "young" character has it's advantages in that it gives one the opportunity to watch a character grow and change over time. That being said, it can also be interesting to have an older character, and then go back and see how that character developed into the man/woman you've come to know and love, so to speak. I've always wanted to know how The Boss became the leader of the Cobra Unit from Metal Gear Solid 3. #aging
@crunks: He was always real slow throughout the game. People were just standing around to get their asses handed to them in the cutscenes, and it wasn't even slow-mo (like the goons in Big Mama's cathedral). Kojima overplayed the old grandpa aspect of Snake. Watching how slow he moves, how squatting hurts his back, and how he seems to crack something everytime he jumped down a few feet, not to mention those over-indulgent 20 minute long coughing spasms from smoking and a certain microwave scene near the end, just made the game more ridiculous. All those people calling him a super soldier and how enemies would be 10x faster than Snake when approaching but slow to a crawl when confronting him just makes it even sillier.
I sure didn't feel sorry for his aging problems when I played the game, and I can't tell if Kojima is trying to be serious, or silly, with Snake's aging, because all I see is the silly, and its way too silly for silly's sake. #aging
@Etheris: His movement might not necessarily have been slower but the rapid ageing process had obviously taken it's toll, just going by his grunts, groans and lines of incidental dialogue. #aging
Most action games follow traditional epic story lines, which, discounting immortal-types, featured old folks in more of supporting roles (sages and guides).
It simply reflects true human nature. It has been postulated that the average age of the people who built Stonehenge, for instance, was around 24-26.
Also, you're more likely to have your life-defining moments and challenges in early-mid adulthood. These "great adventures" are typically the ones that bear enough significance to provide purpose to a game. How common is it to begin your adventure in your late 60s, and just what kind of adventure could there even be?
As for old people as objects of desire, what about Kings and Queens? The amount of sacrifices made in the name of an old ruler may not be too popular in current games, but that is simply because of individualism and our culture's dismissal of monarchies, not or lack of reverence to the elderly.
Saving a young person will always inherently carry more weight than saving an older one, simply because you are "saving more potential life." Young people may also serve as more aesthetically pleasing "trophies," for obvious natural reasons.
Still, this is an interesting subject. And as the player base continues to age, I'm sure we'll see more prominent roles for the elderly. #aging
Obsidian did pretty good with Kreia in Knights of the Old Republic 2. She's old, without that being just pointed out. It's how she is, how she acts and speaks. Like a lot of subjects in games, it's just about good writing, imo. #aging
Now, don't get me wrong, but wasn't Kreia also a soulless sith, the ultimate dark manipulator? I guess we can have old people, as long as they're Satan? #aging
Another game that's taken old age into account is the Sims 2. Your Sim would eventually get old and 'retire.' You could still do odd jobs, but it certainly was a different pace from the younger ages in the game.
Many game types could certainly add an "aging" mechanic and even a way of avoiding it (that green elixir in Sims 2 that made your Sim not age). #aging
Obtained from a leaked script for the movie Gears of War 10: Ensure Immulsion that will be released in the summer of 2026. This summer blockbuster will star Wilford Brimely, reprising his roles as Marcus Fenix from the critically acclaimed Gears of War 9: Liberty. Joining him in this ensemble cast is Danny Glover, also reprising his role as the loveable token black man, Cole Train.
In this scene, Marcus Fenix is retired, back at his father's home, and Cole Train is trying to talk him back into one last mission...
Train walks up behind Marcus, while Marcus eats a bowl of oatmeal and fishes.
Glover: Yooooo! Fenix! Dawg! Caught anything at all in that sorry excuse for a Locust hole?
Brimely: Cole? What are you doing here? I can't believe you drug your post-concussion-syndromed buttocks all the way out here just to watch me fish.
Glover: We need you back, Marcus. There's another outbreak of Locust! You gotta get back on the Cole Train and chainsaw some hordes!
Brimely: We've single-handedly killed over 50 million Locust. We eradicated them in the third movie. We killed the queen that got launched into space in the 4th. We destroyed all of Earth along with Master Chief in the inevitible cross-overs in the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th. How could there possibly be any more left?
Glover: Time travel, Marcus. Bastards sent a colony and a tanker of Immulsion through a temporal wormhole that held them in time stasis for 20 years, and now they're about to emerge and destroy Vulcan.
Brimely: I...I don't know Cole. I'm not the same Marcus I used to be. I don't think I can kill another Locust. I've got kids. I'm a farmer now. I'm growing things Cole, not destroying them. Besides, look at the size of my legs and feet. The Diabeetus is taking hold of me.
Glover: Come on man! I can't do this alone! I"m getting too old for this shit! I need you to help me break Dom out of the nursing home. He can't sit in there making mashed potato statues of Maria forever!
Brimely catches a small pathetic fish that looks a lot like a locust and he throws it back into the pond in disgust: Fine. I'm in. Just don't tell my wife where we're going. Oh, and no more roadie running. My back doesn't bend like that anymore.
Glover: All right! Does a fist pump, but then pulls something and has to sit down.#aging
Giving my opinion on the premise of the issue, I'd say that while it's nice to see more "mature" (read: aged) protagonists and supporting characters in a video game, the premise of the game should fit it at least near-perfectly.
Such games as Heavy Rain, for example, would enable a chance for a protagonist to endure the challenges of a game. Other games, like Left for Dead series are also equally perfect, since it's about survivors in a zombie FPS.
Games like Metal Gear Solid 4 are interesting, since it isn't often that we examine a rapidly aged protagonist fighting the affects of rapid aging, while also facing the experiences of various fatigue and trauma; also not commonly experienced in games.
The truth is that in order for games to push the envelope, there should be more explored to make it work. Now, that's not to say that we should be seeing "Sado-Masochist Protagonist Over 9000 Saves the day", or anything, but rather games that pretty much blow your mind, leaving you to say "huh, I never thought of it that way."
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was unstarred
I believe that if you really want to capture an audience whilst using an elderly protagonist, then you really need to show them a lot of back story.
Sure, when someone elderly who is integral to a plot meets their eventual demise it can have an upsetting effect on the player, case and point; Harold and Maud (a film directed by Hal Ashby).
Though if you have followed that character throughout their life then their eventual demise and every trial that precedes is can be truly heart wrenching, case and point Siddhartha (a book by Herman Hess), and to some extent, the trials of Snake in the Metal Gear series.
And I believe that such effects are good. If you can make the player feel anything, even typically negative things like sorrow, repulsion, fear or anger, then, assuming this was your intent, you have succeeded in your art form.
Personally, when a child, or even a relatively young adult dies in a game, I'm not so bothered. Yes it sets the more downbeat tone to the game, and can sometimes come across as disturbing, like in Max Payne, though when someone elderly dies I find myself more effected. The culmination of an entire life's back story reaching a grinding conclusion to something as awful as the slow rot of old age I find far more horrifying and emotionally devastating.
Perhaps it's my own inerrant fear of growing old, or perhaps a subconscious association with the death of my grandfather whilst I was still at a vulnerable and impressionable age, but for me, any game that can successfully put me into the mindset of a more experienced and wise, yet fundamentally mortal in every sense character, is a game I'm likely to not only enjoy, but treasure, gleaming a far more long lasting emotive impact.
@exion: "Though if you have followed that character throughout their life then their eventual demise... and to some extent, the trials of Snake in the Metal Gear series."
@NotoriousGOD: in some degree, yes (if you are yet to finish the game, you'll have to see yourself)... though MGS4 does certainly follow the end of Snake's life... and aside from stuff like this ( [www.youtube.com] ), it's unlikely you'll see any adventures following Solid Snake after the events of MGS4... #aging
My problem with Kaplan's examples is that there aren't too many stories that you can tell about an aged protagonist which would not be better told in some other medium. Pretty much all of Kaplan's suggestions are narrative in focus. If it's just a plot device, I don't see why any other medium couldn't handle it as well or better.
The limitations of being old are therefore fundamental to the idea of being aged in interactive media. Anything else is just fluff (that is, non-interactive elements in interactive media).
One of my favorite characters ever is Bill for Left 4 Dead. I wouldn't mind seeing more characters like him. i.e. older, more experienced characters to contrast with the plucky young heroes #aging
@tiberseptim: This. Bill provides the "grace under fire" for that group and sets the bar for the other characters. I don't know what L4D would be without him.
"You call this a zombie attack?! This is nothing like the zombie invasion of '63!"
"...what?"
"What?"
"Aww, I'm just shittin' ya." #aging
11/01/09
11/01/09
Therefore, the elderly male will be the "old guard" Obi-Wan Kenobi style man whose main role is to drop dead early on in the game and pass their "wisdom" on to you. The elderly woman will be the grandmother / caretaker who is there to nurture the hero when they are young and disappear once the hero reaches his/her "heroic" age.
Since a woman must, by law, look good in a bikini before taking a major role in a game, the older woman is relegated to the sidelines, emerging intermittently to provide exposition or beg for coins.
This is not only an issue in video/computer games. The three paragraphs above would just as easily describe Hollywood, television, comic books, etc. Unfortunately, changing this situation would require both developers and players to change their mindset.
At the moment, the only refuge from this plague of youth are games that allow you to change the appearance and back story of the character, like Dragon Age.
11/01/09
10/31/09
10/31/09
10/31/09
10/31/09
10/31/09
10/31/09
11/01/09
I sure didn't feel sorry for his aging problems when I played the game, and I can't tell if Kojima is trying to be serious, or silly, with Snake's aging, because all I see is the silly, and its way too silly for silly's sake. #aging
11/01/09
11/02/09
10/31/09
It simply reflects true human nature. It has been postulated that the average age of the people who built Stonehenge, for instance, was around 24-26.
Also, you're more likely to have your life-defining moments and challenges in early-mid adulthood. These "great adventures" are typically the ones that bear enough significance to provide purpose to a game. How common is it to begin your adventure in your late 60s, and just what kind of adventure could there even be?
As for old people as objects of desire, what about Kings and Queens? The amount of sacrifices made in the name of an old ruler may not be too popular in current games, but that is simply because of individualism and our culture's dismissal of monarchies, not or lack of reverence to the elderly.
Saving a young person will always inherently carry more weight than saving an older one, simply because you are "saving more potential life." Young people may also serve as more aesthetically pleasing "trophies," for obvious natural reasons.
Still, this is an interesting subject. And as the player base continues to age, I'm sure we'll see more prominent roles for the elderly. #aging
10/31/09
10/31/09
Now, don't get me wrong, but wasn't Kreia also a soulless sith, the ultimate dark manipulator? I guess we can have old people, as long as they're Satan? #aging
10/31/09
10/31/09
If that particular comment has moved on to page 2, well that is broken too, so you won't be able to view it at all. #aging
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Anna: Nineties?
Sam: I was going to say "seventies". Could you please stop making me feel old?
Anna: I've got bad news for you, Sam, you are old.
10/31/09
10/31/09
Many game types could certainly add an "aging" mechanic and even a way of avoiding it (that green elixir in Sims 2 that made your Sim not age). #aging
10/31/09
In this scene, Marcus Fenix is retired, back at his father's home, and Cole Train is trying to talk him back into one last mission...
Train walks up behind Marcus, while Marcus eats a bowl of oatmeal and fishes.
Glover: Yooooo! Fenix! Dawg! Caught anything at all in that sorry excuse for a Locust hole?
Brimely: Cole? What are you doing here? I can't believe you drug your post-concussion-syndromed buttocks all the way out here just to watch me fish.
Glover: We need you back, Marcus. There's another outbreak of Locust! You gotta get back on the Cole Train and chainsaw some hordes!
Brimely: We've single-handedly killed over 50 million Locust. We eradicated them in the third movie. We killed the queen that got launched into space in the 4th. We destroyed all of Earth along with Master Chief in the inevitible cross-overs in the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th. How could there possibly be any more left?
Glover: Time travel, Marcus. Bastards sent a colony and a tanker of Immulsion through a temporal wormhole that held them in time stasis for 20 years, and now they're about to emerge and destroy Vulcan.
Brimely: I...I don't know Cole. I'm not the same Marcus I used to be. I don't think I can kill another Locust. I've got kids. I'm a farmer now. I'm growing things Cole, not destroying them. Besides, look at the size of my legs and feet. The Diabeetus is taking hold of me.
Glover: Come on man! I can't do this alone! I"m getting too old for this shit! I need you to help me break Dom out of the nursing home. He can't sit in there making mashed potato statues of Maria forever!
Brimely catches a small pathetic fish that looks a lot like a locust and he throws it back into the pond in disgust: Fine. I'm in. Just don't tell my wife where we're going. Oh, and no more roadie running. My back doesn't bend like that anymore.
Glover: All right! Does a fist pump, but then pulls something and has to sit down. #aging
10/31/09
10/31/09
10/31/09
Such games as Heavy Rain, for example, would enable a chance for a protagonist to endure the challenges of a game. Other games, like Left for Dead series are also equally perfect, since it's about survivors in a zombie FPS.
Games like Metal Gear Solid 4 are interesting, since it isn't often that we examine a rapidly aged protagonist fighting the affects of rapid aging, while also facing the experiences of various fatigue and trauma; also not commonly experienced in games.
The truth is that in order for games to push the envelope, there should be more explored to make it work. Now, that's not to say that we should be seeing "Sado-Masochist Protagonist Over 9000 Saves the day", or anything, but rather games that pretty much blow your mind, leaving you to say "huh, I never thought of it that way."
Aged characters are perfect for that. #aging
10/31/09
10/31/09
Sure, when someone elderly who is integral to a plot meets their eventual demise it can have an upsetting effect on the player, case and point; Harold and Maud (a film directed by Hal Ashby).
Though if you have followed that character throughout their life then their eventual demise and every trial that precedes is can be truly heart wrenching, case and point Siddhartha (a book by Herman Hess), and to some extent, the trials of Snake in the Metal Gear series.
And I believe that such effects are good. If you can make the player feel anything, even typically negative things like sorrow, repulsion, fear or anger, then, assuming this was your intent, you have succeeded in your art form.
Personally, when a child, or even a relatively young adult dies in a game, I'm not so bothered. Yes it sets the more downbeat tone to the game, and can sometimes come across as disturbing, like in Max Payne, though when someone elderly dies I find myself more effected. The culmination of an entire life's back story reaching a grinding conclusion to something as awful as the slow rot of old age I find far more horrifying and emotionally devastating.
Perhaps it's my own inerrant fear of growing old, or perhaps a subconscious association with the death of my grandfather whilst I was still at a vulnerable and impressionable age, but for me, any game that can successfully put me into the mindset of a more experienced and wise, yet fundamentally mortal in every sense character, is a game I'm likely to not only enjoy, but treasure, gleaming a far more long lasting emotive impact.
And sorry for my ramble folks. #aging
10/31/09
So you're saying Snake dies? #aging
11/02/09
10/31/09
The limitations of being old are therefore fundamental to the idea of being aged in interactive media. Anything else is just fluff (that is, non-interactive elements in interactive media).
10/31/09
10/31/09
"You call this a zombie attack?! This is nothing like the zombie invasion of '63!"
"...what?"
"What?"
"Aww, I'm just shittin' ya." #aging