Kotaku 
Enter your username and password.
Denver, 6:59 PM
Tue Dec 1
65 posts in the last 24 hours
Tip us:
Editor-In-Chief:
Brian Crecente
| AIM | Twitter
Deputy Editor:
Stephen Totilo
| AIM | Twitter
Senior Editor:
Michael McWhertor
| AIM | Twitter
Senior Contributing Editor, Japan:
Brian Ashcraft
| AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, East Coast:
Michael Fahey
| AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, Oceania:
Luke Plunkett
| AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, Weekends:
Owen Good
| AIM | Twitter
Correspondent, San Francisco:
AJ Glasser
| AIM | Twitter
Columnist:
Leigh Alexander
Columnist:
Tim Rogers
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
10/19/09
*pets #tips*
We were too slow. Maybe next time.
10/17/09
10/17/09
[support.xbox.com]
Licensed for Xbox 360
Third-party products bearing the Licensed for Xbox 360™ stamp have been tested extensively with the Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system.
This is getting ridiculous.
Nobody is going to bother to read the linked information to figure this out, and I'm sitting here doing damage control because Owen apparently hasn't erad his mail despite clearly being online long enough to write up 7 articles. #xbox360
10/17/09
Wii accepts any SD card, even though they do sell Nintendo branded ones.
PS2 and Xbox 1 let you use any memory card you wanted.
Microsoft is still exerting too much control here, and not even for a reason that makes sense.
If it was a portable, then having only components they made would make sense, but as PS3 proved (and even Wii, to an extent, with the SD cards) they don't need to exert control over this aspect. They're punishing people who simply wanted to save money and bought less expensive parts. They worked fine, but MS intentionally deactivated them.
10/17/09
YOU ARE NOT BEING MADE TO USE ONLY THINGS THEY MADE. LEARN TO READ BEFORE YOU RESPOND TO PEOPLE. #xbox360
10/17/09
10/17/09
[support.xbox.com]
Licensed for Xbox 360
Third-party products bearing the Licensed for Xbox 360™ stamp have been tested extensively with the Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system. #xbox360
10/17/09
I'm sure they think they are getting of modders, or at least will use that excuse, for this action but they don't realize that they are alienating a whole bunch of Datel card users who have the 2 or 4 gb mu.
Why on earth they don't just drop the price of the pathetic 120gb drive is beyond me, it's not like it's a ssd. #xbox360
10/17/09
[support.xbox.com]
Licensed for Xbox 360
Third-party products bearing the Licensed for Xbox 360™ stamp have been tested extensively with the Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system.
Third party devices are likely not going anywhere. #xbox360
10/17/09
Apple did this a while back with licensed-for-iPod devices, changing the operating system to not recognize devices which weren't chipped, and therefore weren't licensed through the official program.
These kinds of tactics ensure that gets a cut of all third-party sales within their own device's ecosystem, and help them lower the margins by providing better guaranteed revenue from accessory sales - something that Microsoft has shown it's very good at. You need only look at the price of the WiFi dongle to see that pricing model in action.
Ultimately, this ensures that no matter how popular their hardware becomes, low-cost ripoffs won't cut their revenue streams from the accessories market, if they feared that the market is or was about to be flooded with cheap accessories. For that matter, it could even herald more cost reductions later this year, once they've secured their position as the only channel for delivering those accessories. #xbox360
10/17/09
What I do have a problem with though is this: it's never a question of IF a hard drive will fail, but rather WHEN.
That's why having a nice backup solution is a good idea in any situation. ...I'm surprised Microsoft doesn't offer some sort of solution for this still. #xbox360
10/17/09
Are there any third-party memory units bearing the "Licensed for Xbox 360™" stamp?
I've seen authorized third party controllers, third party headsets, third party face plates, etc, etc...but I don't know that I've ever seen a third party memory unit besides those like the one below that advocate features like "Backup, restore and access files from your PC"
Obviously, products like the one below that let you swap out SD cards, and make editing and downloading game save files extremely easy aren't and shouldn't be supported:
[www.sfx-360.com]
The 360 was a great place to play COD during the UFO Hack that was plaguing PS3s because of the difference in difficulty getting PS3 and X360 save games on your PC, and if non-approved products like the one above jeopardize the online 360 environment by increasing the number of modding assholes in multiplayer games the rest of us have to put up with...I'm glad to see this change... #xbox360
10/17/09
Personally, if I were to get a 360, I'd mod it just so that I can play Japanese games that are region-locked. Good example being Death Smiles.
Also, what UFO Hack? #xbox360
10/17/09
[gamingconsolenetwork.com]
(basically the first one I found on Google)
Basically, it's not a difficult modification to make to a COD save file. The big difference between the PS3 and Xbox 360 is that it's very difficult for your average joe to get game files off of their Xbox 360 HDD or memory card. (If you crack open the Microsoft HDD casing, there's a normal 2.5" HDD in there, but without special unlicensed third-party connectors or unlicensed third party memory cards, you're going to have a tough time getting your saves on your PC or getting PC files onto your Xbox 360.)
It doesn't justify the high price of Xbox 360 HDDs, but it is one of the benefits of the 360's proprietary HDDs and memory cards, and while this lock out is probably going to piss off a few people who haven't boosted, hacked or otherwise abused such accessories, if it limits the cheating online, I'm glad to see this change. #xbox360
10/18/09
@peteer02: Microsoft's HDDs are encrypted/formatted in a special way similar to what Sony does to your HDD when you plug it in, right? #xbox360
10/18/09
Considering hackers are a resourceful and creative bunch, and these tools get shared pretty quickly, it makes sense that the hardware hurdles (physically connecting the devices to your PC) are an important addition over a pure software system.
(15-years younger and I'd probably be one of the people messing around with saves on a software only system just to see what's possible and what isn't.)
10/17/09
10/17/09
If you have that little "Microsoft" holographic sticker on the bottom near the imprinted Microsoft logo, I would assume you are golden.
As I posted a few posts up, even if it was just a MS casing with the 2.5" drive swapped out, but still had the correct headers and was working right now, I think you'd be golden. I think the real issue with this change is to make it harder for hackers and boosters to swap game saves and take advantage of things like the COD UFO Hack. #xbox360
10/17/09
10/17/09
As you know, mods are against the TOS, so officially you've broken them, but if it's convincing your Xbox 360 you've got an official Microsoft 120GB drive, they might not be able to stop you even if they wanted to.
That said, this posts keeps discussing unauthorizedmemory units. I think Microsoft's main concern is to crack down on memory units like the one below that advertise the ability to "Backup, restore and access files from your PC":
[www.sfx-360.com] #xbox360
10/16/09
–adjective
forbidden, as by law; prohibited. #xbox360
10/16/09
10/16/09
Actually the choice is simple, use MS manufactured products or go with a competitor.
Microsofts monopoly style of business is the reason I prefer my PS3 and own a Mac. I want choice. #xbox360
10/17/09
Any color is ok for a car, as long as it's black. #xbox360
10/17/09
Officially licensed = Microsoft gets money from it, too.
@Sisee:
and own a Mac. I want choice.
The only hardware manufacturer that makes computers that run Mac OS... is Apple. Tons of choice right there, buddy! #xbox360
10/17/09
My choice is Mac, Windows or Linux, all on one machine. Legally and not warranty voiding.
With a Windows PC, I can use Windows only. There are no officially supported versions of Mac for PCs.
And I'm not forced to upgrade to the latest OS to keep up with programs I use.
Windows programs that need DX10 can only run in Vista (and 7) XP users are screwed.
My choice was to have an alternative OS and the possibility to chose another if I wish.
With a Windows PC I wouldn't have that choice. Other than Linux, but I don't like using Linux. #xbox360
10/16/09
For one thing, the post says "
If you need help identifying officially licensed Xbox 360 storage devices or accessories you can read more about the licensed accessories program on Xbox.com"
The link on the post here, which lists 3 items? That's linked to under "Xbox 360 storage devices"- THAT DOES NOT IN ANY WAY WAHTSOEVER IMPLY that they are the ONLY authorized devices. The post EXPLICITLY states that AUTHORIZED 3rd party devices are ok.
Considering the "Licensed Accessories Program" page has a this section, for third party products...:
[support.xbox.com]
Licensed for Xbox 360
Third-party products bearing the Licensed for Xbox 360™ stamp have been tested extensively with the Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system. Such products, like headsets or controllers, will also support Xbox LIVE play.
This likely means that only 3rd party cards which have been approved will be ok.
If there's no reason for your precious 3rd party piece of crap cards to be unauthorized, chances are they will not be.
Whereas the ones sold in bulk on ebay from hong kong that come with softmodding pre-built-in...will not be authorized.
The confusion here lies in Owen seeing "Licensed Xbox 360 Storage Devices" and assuming the link was listing all the licensed ones, and in people just not bothering to read the actual post that was linked- the post clearly says to look at the Licensed Accessories Program page, which clearly states that not all 3rd party stuff is unauthorized. #xbox360
10/16/09
From the linked post:
If you need help identifying officially licensed Xbox 360 storage devices or accessories you can read more about the licensed accessories program on Xbox.com
[support.xbox.com]
Licensed for Xbox 360
Third-party products bearing the Licensed for Xbox 360™ stamp have been tested extensively with the Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system.
Meaning the linked post pretty clearly implies that the "No 3rd party stuff" mindset is completely incorrect. #xbox360
10/16/09
10/16/09
Fuckin awesome.
I went looking for that Batman clip on youtube and came up with nothing. It was my first thought upon seeing Brand X mentioned. #xbox360
10/16/09
10/16/09
10/16/09
As long as I haven't combined three of them on myself today.
Thank god I don't wear deoderant or shower. WHEW.
You fuckers can be dead. I'll just smell, tyvm. #xbox360
10/16/09
You know how a lot of PS2, PS1, Gamecube, the WII(! without that MicroSD slot, this wouldnt have happened), even Xbox to some small extent, softmods ended up being created, right? You remember those?
Third party memory cards with modified file structures pre loaded
You don't suppose this is a pre-emptive strike that falls in line with their 'no, no usb peripheral that isn't ours or a controller' policy and paranoia?
Nah, couldn't be.
Edit: Added all the other systems that I remember having system modifying memory cards
10/16/09
10/16/09
Seriously. Every single damn console last gen had memory card exploits. EVERY ONE. And the Wii, this gen, is being reamed by an SD card slot.
Yet everyone goes bawwww Microsoft how could you do this, why would you do this, bawwww.
Because we, the people, can't be trusted to play nice. #xbox360
10/16/09
10/16/09
Why do you think that is?
They must be doing -something- right. #xbox360
10/16/09
10/16/09
10/16/09
This has everything to do with something other than a money grab. Sure, theres likely a guy going 'hey, good idea, we'll make more money too', but thats not why this decision would have come down.
Every. single. console. was hacked via unauthorized memory card, or, in the case of the PS2, a modified hard drive.
(So while it doesn't explain the price of the 360's HDD, it certainly explains their paranoia and reasoning behind not adding your own, like the PS3 lets you. Sony, being the beast that it is and having 25-50gb blu rays, may well be unhackable due to lack of blu-ray burner saturation and desire atm)
Otherwise why not lock out controller makers too. Nintendo doesn't allow Wii-mote copies.
Also, while you're running around here shitting all over Microsoft and begging the question about overpriced peripherals and using the 360's memory card as an example, below, perhaps you would like to tell me what Sony was charging for an 8mb branded memory card a year into its release, on the PS2?
Because they were 29.99 unless you got them on sale, 49.99 for a 2 pack. #xbox360
10/16/09
It doesn't matter how they're being hacked or flashed, it matters how its been done before, and is currently being done (ie the Wii) that makes Microsoft just seal its arsehole right up.
Remember kids, they didn't stop unauthorized addons to the original Xbox. Didn't keep a lock on it with forced firmware updates.
And hell, it can be softmodded by a 7 year old these days. #xbox360
10/16/09
Its still not made easy however. Well, its 'easy' but not accessable. The PS2 memory cards that were able to hack the system were sold in retail outlets. You could buy them online and just pop them in no mess no fuss.
And look at the Wii. Poor poor Wii.
You still can't do that to a 360. You have to take it to a guy who knows a guy, or a shady mall in Toronto, or send it away (or order one) online. #xbox360
10/16/09
But a lot of MS accessories are still overpriced. #xbox360
10/16/09
Really? Fuck being complacent about it.
People Bawwing about the price of MS peripherals have every right to, they are ludicrously expensive; and locking out third parties isn't exactly wallet friendly. No matter how many good reasons they might have, I don't have to be happy about it, and I don't have to not complain.
If no one ever bitched about stuff they didn't like ... #xbox360
10/16/09
So playing nice means that even though I paid for this equipment and it's mine, I still have to allow the company I bought it from to come in and do whatever they want to it whenever they want?
That's not playing nice, that's rolling over and being their bitch. #xbox360
10/16/09
I never said I disagreed with the overpriced garbage. Its really overpriced, no doubt about it.
But there might be other, more important reasons Microsoft is looking at this besides 'ripping off' the customer. Especially when you look at their history of denying every other third party peripheral (except controllers), and whats happened to them and others before.
@Ookseer:
I'm assuming you agreed to a terms of service when you signed up for xbox live and read it, yes? I paid my dues to play hockey this year, that doesn't mean I can use an unauthorized stick or jersey. Regardless of why I'm told no, I can't. I bought all my equipment to play, and I can do whatever I want with it, but not while I want to play in their arena with the other players they told could come play (as long as it was by their rules... and they brought their own equipment ;)). #xbox360
10/16/09
After some reading I agree with you that the main goal was probably to prevent more hacking/exploits. But just to clear some stuff up:
1)There are 3rd party Wiimotes, Gizmodo even did a review on them.
2)To be fair flash memory was very expensive back in 2000.
3)I shit on whatever needs to be shat on. $30 for proprietary 512mb flash memory is one of them. I feel I'm pretty unbiased with the shitting on and whatnot. #xbox360
10/16/09
But there is also a security issue with memory cards. Sure there are ways to use burnt games, but thats only a small fraction of the pirate/hacked console debate. What about sharing/hacking save files for achievements, or downloading and sharing DLC and bought content. locking out memcards makes it hard to share and distribute paid content.
PS3 isnt as hackable for a number of different reasons, but dosn't take away from the fact that having the ability to use what u want is a security risk. Luckily it hasnt bitten sony in the ass, and I salute them for it, but MS arn't dumb either and know the risks with their console, and they are plugging one of those holes up.
Also before u bitch that this is just MS wanting more money, why hasnt MS blocked/banned 3rd party USB controllers, Video cables etc? Just memcards and wireless tech they "made" themselves. #xbox360
10/16/09
With this move, they're just being an ass, and nothing more; specially now both Sony and Nintendo are starting to open up (at least wii got a SD port).
10/16/09
There was a story right below this one about a whole bunch of people being banned for playing illegitimate games early. They weren't doing that on unmodded systems.
Checking for hacks may be easy. Trying to stop a flood of people who discover they can use the unofficial memory card with the sd slot (THIS is probably what caused all this, I can only imagine the horror) to modify their system to boot burned games is not.
You can't boot half your userbase because they bought a product from the store (which was legal), it worked in their xbox (which was legal) and it let them run authorized code (which is the illegal part, but once again, with it being that easy, it would be a HUGE chunk of people).
So you would just firmware update.
And then the pirates would firmware update.
And then xbox would firmware update.
And then the pirates would.
Have you not been watching the Wii/DS piracy saga? Do you not know how this works once a single little exploit like that is found?
I'd bet you a fuckton of money that Nintendo regrets that SD port. Like 50 bajillionity dollars. All it took was one modified zelda twilight princess savegame and the road was paved to everyone out there on the internet having easy access to load whatever the hell they wanted in there. #xbox360
10/16/09
Otherwise why not lock out controller makers too. Nintendo doesn't allow Wii-mote copies.
What? There are a couple of third-party Wii Remotes out there. At least MadCatz and Nyko have their own controllers out. #xbox360
10/16/09
Yeah, apparently, Ad up there threw a link down.
I remember when Nintendo wasn't too keen on it, however. And didn't they sue one of the nunchuck makers at one point?
I guess the extremely low saturation of those motes led me to believe they were like Sasquatch. #xbox360
10/16/09
There was a situation over the Kama wireless nunchuk. Apparently, it was too close to the real thing (aside from being wireless) that it set off red flags at the big N. #xbox360
10/16/09
10/17/09
but honestly, i don't think that is a big deal right now - I mean the 360 is already hacked, and it has nothing to do with the hard-drive AFAIK, its a hack on the DVD drive. So this doesn't make much sense why they'd be banning people with 3rd party HD's now, when that isn't the cause of the piracy - sure you could argue that the HD's may be hacked in the future so MS are taking pre-emptive measure here.... BUT why would somebody hack it, when the Console has already been hacked? don't see the point myself unless MS close up all the other holes first
Also why would you need to buy a new HD to hack it? why not use the official HD, unplug it from xbox, plug it into PC, and download whatever hacked files you would need on to it - I don't own an xbox so don't know if the HD would work in the PC, but i am sure it can be easily added... and once it is, people could theoretically download the hack onto the official drive and this blocking wouldn't change a thing?
It does amaze me that Sony have kept the PS3 completely hackproof so far.... really amazing... 3 years hack free is astonishing, especially considering Sony have been very kind with allowing you to change hard-drives, and also opening it up to install other OS's on the Console... really amazing work by them tbh (this is one reason I think that the Console is so hack proof, Sony gave the geeks what they wanted so they didn't have to try and hack it to get what they wanted)
I disagree that the lack of Blu-ray burner saturation is any reason why the console has not been hacked... firstly PS3 games are already being copied and sent around the internet - I can easily download a PS3 game right now if I wanted to, but as it isn't hacked its pointless (don't know why they do it). The hackers who do this do it because it's like a worthy opponent, I doubt they care less whether people use the exploit or not... but it would look great for them that they were the one that conquered the PS3. So I think they are trying but not getting anywhere yet. Another reason I think this is because when PC games switched over to DVD's, not many people had DVD burners but piracy was still rampant (games were copied as DVD's, and not ripped to make smaller CD's), most people eventually got themselves the DVD Burner.... ppl would buy a blu-ray burner if PS3 was hacked, they'd save money in the longrun
anyway yeh props to Sony for making PS3 hackproof so far, amazing considering the mess they made with PSP.
10/17/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
"Its really overpriced, no doubt about it."
Thanks for confirming it, because at some point I was ready to tag you as "mindless fanboi".
Yes, I'm pretty convinced MS is trying hard to give "hackers" a hard time, even if that means blocklisting legitimate but "uncertified" third-party devices. After all, MS has been hell-bent over keeping Linux out of their box -- which, as we all know, is the eviliest hack ever conceived.
But denying the fact that MS is not seizing this opportunity to shut competitors out would be extremely naive, to say things politely. It's obvious MS is trying to kill two birds with one stone here. #xbox360
10/17/09
From what I can tell this move is squarely against one company, Datel (www.datel.co.uk) and it's products which allow the hacking to take place.
Without the use of the XSata kit the majority of cheating would be impossible.
I think for a while, Microsoft wasn't bothered by the minimal amount of cheating being done. Now it's rampant and antagonizing legitimate gamers. #xbox360
10/17/09
Toronto!
Woooooo!!! #xbox360
10/17/09
What this permits is the ability to modify the gamerscore, and in-game cheating.
Microsoft's efforts to stop unauthorized storage devices won't stop the cheating, but it will severely hamper it for all but the most industrious cheaters. #xbox360
10/17/09
If you don't believe me, there are videos I could point you to regarding Gamerscore/Achievement cheating that will step you through the process. The problem is it's gotten bad and people who legitimately play games are fed up with not being able to play games online and enjoy the experience.
And Sony isn't opening up, Sony no longer allows Linux Homebrew, which according to hackers a year ago was the reason why the PS3 hadn't been hacked. #xbox360
10/17/09
10/18/09
Kinda Toronto... =D #xbox360
10/16/09
oh wait.
Yeah, dick move by MS. Ah well, I guess its their console and they're free to do what they want but damn if their own "Authorised" stuff wasn't so god damn expensive it wouldn't be so much of an issue. #xbox360
10/16/09
10/16/09
10/16/09
:P #xbox360
10/16/09