House of the Dead 4. The arcade game that came out a few years back. With House of the Dead 1 on the same disc, completing the collection for the Wii. I LOVE those games!
"We" may not want Sonic drek, but I think it's been established by now that "we" are not the majority, so it's little surprise that the hedgehog still sells.
Not to mention the fact that "we" are quick to swear off consoles and developers, and quicker still to go back to them, if only to vindicate our initial scorn. "Ah-HA! I knew it was going to blow! Take my money and suck on it, Sega!"
Why people completely ignore game sales after the first month?
Anyway, MadWorld is a black & white ultra-violent brawler! It would sell as much on any console, and would have cost at least 2 times more to be developed for HD consoles.
@CockroachMan: Folks tend to ignore sales after the first month because there is not enough data released to track the retail lifespan of titles.
Unless someone leaks comprehensive NPD data, a quarterly or yearly report is published, or a company boasts about sales in a press blast then there is not much to talk about beyond "it is not in the top 10 and it sold less than [10th game of the month]."
It's pretty clear what we want from SEGA. The problem comes from that we're not the main demographic, even though we think we are. This isn't limited to just the Wii, but all video game systems.
Gamers like to think that the game world revolves around them but it doesn't. It doesn't revolve around the not the kid market, core gamer market, casual market, etc... It revolves around the people who walk into stores and don't sit on video game websites and just want to play something fun and cool, also known as the mainstream market.
MadWorld is a blast, but it appeals to a small segment of gamers. Even if it wasn't on the Wii it's a basic brawler that's dependent on people wanting to rack up high scores. Anyone expecting high sales was...high. I bought it it's release day and it's fun, but it doesn't have mass appeal.
"They create Sonic-themed drek we claim we don't want and it sells in droves, while games like MadWorld that we seem to enjoy barely make a drop in the bucket. What exactly is it we want from Sega?"
@loempiavreter: Spikeout got an Xbox release. It sold a whopping 3,000 copies I believe. :/ Maybe we can hope for watered down Wii ports of Virtua Cop 3 and 2spicy. If the company is happy with Overkill's sales as it seems to be and with the company finally porting Jambo Safari, perhaps there's hope.
Keep in mind too that the reason many game companies shy away from a mature rating is that it tends to severely limit possible sales unless you're talking about a juggernaut of a franchise like GTA, or at least a hype machine like Manhunt. It's a big risk making an unknown IP M-rated. Then, with the insane adoption rate of the Wii, I think that may be why they chose that platform to try it too - though there would be many eager fans on PS3 or 360 for this sort of thing, there are a boggling number of Wii owners who potentially could have bought it.
In the end, it's not an easy decision, but I'm glad they're not throwing in the towel just yet.
IMO, Madworld was one of those games that probably would have not done well on any console, but another reason could have stemmed from marketing. Or for a better term, a lack of one.
However most people blame the marketing on everything and most of the time they are right, but sometimes you have to think, Madworld is one of those niche games that most people will look at and maybe forget about the second later.
I do support Sega in trying these new IPs and I will support them in anyway I can. Although I have to say The Conduit was a meh experience for me. :/
They create Sonic-themed drek we claim we don't want and it sells in droves
I hear people buy things. True or false? Obviously, people want it. Sonic Rush was nice as were the day levels in Unleashed. Not my ideal Sonic game, mind you, but then I haven't truly loved a Sonic game since the second one on Genesis.
I will say there was a time when Sega's gaming focus wasn't aimed at "mature" titles beyond House of the Dead, which itself would be no more than a PG level game. Seems like the company is too focused on being a publisher of late -- admittedly, on some excellent games -- instead of developing its long neglected existing IPs. Yet, for all the clamoring for a new Streets of Rage and the like, what makes anything think the whining and groaning over each successful Sonic release wouldn't adapt itself to Sega's other franchises? Feels like the bulk of Sega's development studios are in disarray.
@Kobun: It just seems to me that Sega doesn't put the same care an effort into their games now that they are not on their own platforms. Their ratio of putting out good games to bad games was high on the good games side when they had their own console. Now, it seems reversed.
Now it seems as though they are more concerned with getting something out the door than they are on whether it's a realyl good game or not.
@Ferkner: Have having its own console, Sega had a guaranteed fan base to sell its wares, so the company could experiment more and know that it'd get attention by running its own magazine and sales to an eager consumer base. Going third party made that more difficult, and sure enough most of the first few years after the Dreamcast's death was spent porting Dreamcast hits to other consoles. The company still has several excellent titles to its credit, but they're all scattered about different consoles and are thinned out over the years compared to the Dreamcast flood.
It still does seem that Sega's development studios are largely MIA. AM2 only has two games released this generation in VF5 and Ghost Squad. AM3 has Virtua Tennis 3 and Initial D. The only other non-Sonic console game developed in house is Valkyria Chronicles. Everything else is getting farmed out. Why? Where is everyone?
I hate how people still complain that there are no good mature games on the Wii. You asked for it and Sega has ponied up. I'm fairly certain I've read more than 66 000 "WIIZ 4 BABIEZ LOL" posts in my time here; where the fuck are the rest of you? You best be homeless or broke or I be putting my foot up into your hypocritical ass.
I tried Madworld. It was sub-par. It was short. It was bloody.
But I didn't buy it.
I'm not paying top bill for a 5 hour game.
Maybe if someone other than Sega made mature games for the Wii. I mean, if SK would get off their lazy butts and make Eternal Darkness 2 for the Wii... geeze, that would be amazing.
But lets just say that besides NMH, Sega hasn't had the best track record.
@Darrisbob1: Well No More Heroes was Ubisoft, if I'm not mistaken, so still -zip- I guess for you :p I have no qualms with those that just thought it was a bad game, but 66 000 is very very low. I'm certain not everyone has tried it but are still decrying the Wii foul. But yes agreed, Eternal Darkness would be awesome!
@bfwings55: Oh...well, then I guess you miss out on my hypothetical foot then...errr now where do I put this thing....*confused*
@SaanZ: I think that's part of the problem, I saw NMH for $15 three months after it came out. Now don't get me wrong, I'm more inclined to a deal as the next guy, but at the rate the good games are relegated to the bargain bin, any increase in sales probably won't help make up what they lost when it was selling at full price. I just hope Sega and others stick to their guns, but I'm sure, most people anticipate the price drop anyway.
@QualityJeverage: True, but Buckets o'Blood isn't exactly "for kids" either :p No More Heroes, I think is a good example of a mature game. But then again, if we relegate the mature category to exclude "Buckets o'blood" we would really only have a very small handful of games on any platform.
@QualityJeverage: Thats adolescent. Mature would be more like Ico, SotC, Braid, or planescape;torment. Maturity is about finding meaning and insight in your stories. Allowing what you play have a real meaningful impact on you.
@kingmanic: Question: Can you have a mature game that's of poor quality? Because what I think you are describing there are quality games and misconstruing them as mature. A mature game should not have a subjective value like the one you described ("meaningful impact"), but should deal more with of what age are the themes of the game directed at. I'm not disagreeing with you though, just trying to provoke a discussion through clarification. I think there is a distinction between mature themes (genocide (mass effect?), lost love, child abandonment (ico?) and inappropriate visual themes- "It's the blood drained from the necks of tyrants after they have a traffic sign pierced through them."
@MrStorm: Madworld wasn't all that good (and really short). HOTDO was another unwanted lightgun shooter. Neither were mature. Oh, they were GROSS, to be sure. But not really appealing to an older gamer gemographic in any way. I'm sure lots of 10 year olds out there would have loved to play em, but as a parent myself, I certainly wouldn't allow mine to at that age. RESULT - loooow sales all around. Lots of mature (read "older") Wii gamers still left totally unsatisfied.
@surrender: That's absolutely right. I'd be more worried about games like Mirrors Edge and Dead Space not performing well on the core consoles, than lightgun shooter number 47 not selling well on the Wii. I would LOVE some good core games on the Wii, but I have little to no interest in light gun shooters. Give me a AAA title for once, new IP or old, I don't care but just give it to me, then complain if it doesn't sell. HoTD is not a AAA mature title like CoD4, or Resident Evil 5. Give me one of those games on the Wii and I'm a buyer day 1.
@surrender: Gears of War sold a billion copies and was just as mature as Madworld and HotD. Mature-rated games not being mature is an interesting conversation, but not in the realms of sales.
@MrStorm: GoW was a FUN, beautiful Hi-Def game with a somewhat revolutionary "cover system" that made it even more so. Silly, yes - gory, yes, but MUCH more appealing than those other two.
Gears wasn't that fun. I found it ugly and colorless. And the steroidal anti-heroes were completely immature. Or rather, what a 15 year old might consider mature. And the cover system was anything but revolutionary. Kill.Switch came out years before and was nearly identical. Even games like 007 Everything or Nothing had already done similar cover systems. No, Gears of War was hugely successful because it scratched that itch that the majority of teen males have to shoot big guns held by bigger, freakishly muscled space marines. And the online community was really solid.
"There is no way you can say it didn't do well because... ...it's bad."
Why not, Pachter? It looks like a dumbed-down bastardization of the franchise; based on the poorly made advertisements I've seen, I'm not interested enough to risk time and money confirming my suspicion that I won't enjoy it.
Silly speculation, the truth why it tanked is because of piracy.
The game was probably downloaded several times more than retail copies were sold. If even a small percentage of those downloads were sales then we'd see GTA Chinatown Wars be a hit.
I don't really want mature (blood and violence) games, just mature (well developed) games. I just want to play something that is Good, and doesn't insult my intelligence or make me feel like I don't belong. Walking by a DS section at any store now is painful.
you know, i bought a d.s. for this title. it's a damn shame that not enough people are picking it up, but i love that the d.s. is embracing this adventure with a mature title. as an older gamer (college student), it's nice to see a game targeted for my playing styles. i sincerely hope this game garners more sales, to encourage other publishers to take the risk that rockstar did. i think this is wayyy better than the psp iterations, and i own both!
06/30/09
House of the Dead 4. The arcade game that came out a few years back. With House of the Dead 1 on the same disc, completing the collection for the Wii. I LOVE those games!
06/30/09
Not to mention the fact that "we" are quick to swear off consoles and developers, and quicker still to go back to them, if only to vindicate our initial scorn. "Ah-HA! I knew it was going to blow! Take my money and suck on it, Sega!"
06/30/09
Anyway, MadWorld is a black & white ultra-violent brawler! It would sell as much on any console, and would have cost at least 2 times more to be developed for HD consoles.
06/30/09
06/30/09
Unless someone leaks comprehensive NPD data, a quarterly or yearly report is published, or a company boasts about sales in a press blast then there is not much to talk about beyond "it is not in the top 10 and it sold less than [10th game of the month]."
06/30/09
Gamers like to think that the game world revolves around them but it doesn't. It doesn't revolve around the not the kid market, core gamer market, casual market, etc... It revolves around the people who walk into stores and don't sit on video game websites and just want to play something fun and cool, also known as the mainstream market.
MadWorld is a blast, but it appeals to a small segment of gamers. Even if it wasn't on the Wii it's a basic brawler that's dependent on people wanting to rack up high scores. Anyone expecting high sales was...high. I bought it it's release day and it's fun, but it doesn't have mass appeal.
06/30/09
06/30/09
combine the best of the two. a mature sonic game.
06/30/09
Sega already did that. He's called Shadow the Hedgehog.
06/30/09
Sonic can piss off, what we want is Shinobi, Streets of Rage/Bare Knuckle, 2Spicy, Virtua Cop, Spikeout any SEGA arcade classic.
06/30/09
06/30/09
In the end, it's not an easy decision, but I'm glad they're not throwing in the towel just yet.
06/30/09
However most people blame the marketing on everything and most of the time they are right, but sometimes you have to think, Madworld is one of those niche games that most people will look at and maybe forget about the second later.
I do support Sega in trying these new IPs and I will support them in anyway I can. Although I have to say The Conduit was a meh experience for me. :/
06/30/09
06/30/09
I hear people buy things. True or false? Obviously, people want it. Sonic Rush was nice as were the day levels in Unleashed. Not my ideal Sonic game, mind you, but then I haven't truly loved a Sonic game since the second one on Genesis.
I will say there was a time when Sega's gaming focus wasn't aimed at "mature" titles beyond House of the Dead, which itself would be no more than a PG level game. Seems like the company is too focused on being a publisher of late -- admittedly, on some excellent games -- instead of developing its long neglected existing IPs. Yet, for all the clamoring for a new Streets of Rage and the like, what makes anything think the whining and groaning over each successful Sonic release wouldn't adapt itself to Sega's other franchises? Feels like the bulk of Sega's development studios are in disarray.
06/30/09
Now it seems as though they are more concerned with getting something out the door than they are on whether it's a realyl good game or not.
06/30/09
It still does seem that Sega's development studios are largely MIA. AM2 only has two games released this generation in VF5 and Ghost Squad. AM3 has Virtua Tennis 3 and Initial D. The only other non-Sonic console game developed in house is Valkyria Chronicles. Everything else is getting farmed out. Why? Where is everyone?
06/30/09
06/30/09
I tried Madworld. It was sub-par. It was short. It was bloody.
But I didn't buy it.
I'm not paying top bill for a 5 hour game.
Maybe if someone other than Sega made mature games for the Wii. I mean, if SK would get off their lazy butts and make Eternal Darkness 2 for the Wii... geeze, that would be amazing.
But lets just say that besides NMH, Sega hasn't had the best track record.
06/30/09
06/30/09
And I've been enjoying The Conduit non-stop for the past week.
06/30/09
@SaanZ: I think that's part of the problem, I saw NMH for $15 three months after it came out. Now don't get me wrong, I'm more inclined to a deal as the next guy, but at the rate the good games are relegated to the bargain bin, any increase in sales probably won't help make up what they lost when it was selling at full price. I just hope Sega and others stick to their guns, but I'm sure, most people anticipate the price drop anyway.
@Witzbold: As always, thanks for the knowledge!
06/30/09
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IMHO anyway.
06/30/09
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06/30/09
Gears wasn't that fun. I found it ugly and colorless. And the steroidal anti-heroes were completely immature. Or rather, what a 15 year old might consider mature. And the cover system was anything but revolutionary. Kill.Switch came out years before and was nearly identical. Even games like 007 Everything or Nothing had already done similar cover systems. No, Gears of War was hugely successful because it scratched that itch that the majority of teen males have to shoot big guns held by bigger, freakishly muscled space marines. And the online community was really solid.
04/17/09
Why not, Pachter? It looks like a dumbed-down bastardization of the franchise; based on the poorly made advertisements I've seen, I'm not interested enough to risk time and money confirming my suspicion that I won't enjoy it.
04/17/09
04/17/09
The game was probably downloaded several times more than retail copies were sold. If even a small percentage of those downloads were sales then we'd see GTA Chinatown Wars be a hit.
04/17/09
Piracy isn't the reason every game that sells poorly does so, just a convenient excuse.
04/17/09
04/17/09