Thanks for posting this Stephen, it was a really interesting read. I'm quite impressed with the quality of many of the comments too.
Regarding the general lack of positive portrayal of cannabis in video games, I think this comes down to the fact that, for the most part, games tend to shy away from anything controversial. Political issues where public opinion is largely mixed are avoided by most developers.
Blizzard thanked "420" in the back of the Starcraft manual and "Proposition 215" in the back of the Diablo manual. Proof marijuana helped in the creation of these two classic games.
Pot in media is a double edged sword for me. I smoke maybe once or twice a week nowadays...more when I was younger. I don't drink. I don't do any other illegal drug.
I have Crohn's disease and pot helps me maintain my appetite plus some pain alleviation. Unfortunately, I don't live in a state thats legalized Marijuana for medicinal purposes. Sometimes I go a couple days without wanting to eat because it makes me nauseous. Of course, the getting high part is nice too.
Still, I get a little self conscious and annoyed when pot references invade entertainment. Even though drinking plays a heavy part in media and almost always in a positive light I hate when people throw out 420 or some other stoner culture reference. Its like...yeah I like to smoke pot...but that doesn't mean I have to talk about it like we're part of some cool dudes club.
At the same time, I know that if pot smokers don't speak out then we'll go back to popular culture believing pot causes people to jump out windows and commit random acts of rape.
There have been drugs, real and fictional, in plenty of games. Narc, Saints Row, just about anything Bethesda has ever touched...
Also, it all sounds kinda low-brow. They're making a GTA clone and saying "yeah...huh-huh...weed!" I haven't played it, but from the art, shots, and stuff like this, it sounds like some suit is sitting in a room watching rap videos and yelling "Pot! The kids love the pot!"
It just seems stupid and there just because they can, which makes it hardly worth mentioning in passing, let alone a story on this site.
@GorbyGipper: I didn't say there hadn't been drugs in games. I was writing about drug use and, more specifically pro-drug content. I maintain that it's a rarity, moreso than in other forms of entertainment.
@CheapyD: You and others here have exposed one of my blind spots -- the Saint's Row series. Wish I'd known about this, because it seems worth a mention. Thanks for adding it here!
I follow Capcom's advice: "Winners don't do drugs". Having said that though, I still think it's up to the individual to decide what goes into their body, so I'd legalize marijuana, along with all the other recreational drugs. That way you could tax and regulate them, which would cripple criminal gangs and end the farcical "war on drugs" pretty much overnight. I mean, you don't see people on street corners selling cigarettes, do you?
Prohibition just doesn't work, and the USA of all countries should know this. People should be educated, not controlled. If people knew beforehand the effects of these drugs, we'd have a lot less addicts.
@EnigmaNemesis: I don't get how so many millions of people can try something that you need to know the right people to even find. It's not like you can go on the internet and have it shipped via UPS.
It's the equivalent of saying "Hi Stoners, we know you're baked off your ass sitting somewhere playing this game. This part is just for you." Said stoner would have a reason to grin and chuckle. It's a bit of acknowledgment to a specific sect of people they know are playing.
I don't get why guys like Tim Shaffer, Cliff Blaze-inski, and those cats at Bioware won't just come out and admit that they use marijauna already. I guess it has something to do with Video Games still being seen as an entertainment medium for children.
Keighley's the worst though. He has a forum in which to promote this cause at least twice a week on GT Yet he just sits there baked and yet does nothing to help promote our cause.
Then at least we all know someone who does it. At least one person we care about has probably used it and no one wants anyone they care about to go to jail for that reason.
@spiiikes: It's true, but I bet a lot of us drink alcohol and think that is perfectly fine compared to pot. Marijuana can have a bad psychological effect, if you a are feeling depressed the last thing you should do is smoke marijuana, you'll just feel worse. But in the purely physical and addiction side of the drug, alcohol is much much worse and so is tobacco, but cultural acceptation goes a long way.
@goldenroad: Never smoked anything in my entire life. I drink a bit, but not even enough to qualify it as 'social'. I do however, see no problem having a vice. At the end of the day we all need ways to cope with our lives.
When you start place getting off ahead of moving ahead you lose your right to cope and I hit you with my car.
Still, we need to legalize the bloody thing and make the potheads shut the hell up.
Actually marijuana is one of those drugs/medications that can have very different effects depending upon the biology of the user. For some it's an appetite stimulant, for others an appetitie depressant. For some it eases nausea and for others it causes nausea. For SOME it can increase depression, for others it CAN alleviate depression.
@spiiikes: Quite true but I like to believe the majority of people would see no reason against legalisation with regulation and that should mean something in a democracy.
@robinandtami: Well it's true, I'm speaking solely from personal experience, but I still wouldn't recommend weed to someone with psychological issues, if there is a chance it will aggravate his condition. The best experiences that I have had with weed was when I was in place I trusted, a place that I felt comfortable and when I was surrounded with friends, to me set & setting is fundamental to have good trip (or at least not to have a bad trip, not to say that some rather "intense" trips are not some good introspection sessions, because they are and it's not that bad to have one once in a while).
@SaanZ: okay fine, but in a democracy would you ban alcohol? I bet you have your vices like everyone else, I'm not telling you to do weed or any other drug, but the fact is the reason weed is not legal and alcohol is, it's because of a purely cultural decision, so I don't see why some more dangerous vices should be allowed and other shouldn't.
You can't really believe that. Alcohol is legal (and highly addictive) and not everyone drinks. Tobacco is legal (and highly addictive) and not everyone smokes. Marijuana is not addictive, so why would everyone start doing it just because it's legal? And why would that be ALL everyone would do?
The only reason I want it to be legal is because I don't think that people should go to jail or have a ciminal record for doing something that is no worse for you than taking an asprin. It has nothing to do with the availabilty of it. You want weed? Just go to any high school parking lot at lunch.
If it were legal it would not be sold in schools or back alleys. It could be regulated and it could be controlled. And it could be taxed to hell to fund programs to try to keep kids from getting into other kinds of worse drugs like crack, meth or alcohol.
@Garro: I just think a lot of Bioware's ideas are so creative and inspired that there has to be some pot used in that writers room. I'm just generalizing of course. I'm not saying the only doorway to the creative mind is through drug use, but it just sometimes opens that door a little quicker if used properly.
@njd09: No, it wouldn't. Did everyone start drinking alcohol just because they repealed prohibition? No. They didn't. Why would this be different? Not everything is for everyone.
So true. I can't think of the last time I saw a stoned person get into a fight or even suffer a hangover.
Getting high once in a while, especially using a substance that isn't physically addictive, should be the least of everyone's worries. Everything in moderation, kiddies. For god's sake, regular consumption of junk food and red bull have more profound physical effects on the human body.
I haven't taken anything more than advil in years aside from the odd glass of red wine, but even I know that full-on drug prohibition is a crock.
No one needs a criminal record because they smoke pot. No one.
@goldenroad: I know lots of artists that smoke to get creative, and I can tell yo it doesn't really do much for them, they just want to believe it does.
@KommanderKeith:
and you probably don't understand how it helps them, I'm an artist, and love to draw, but have no desire to draw unless I'm stoned, it doesn't make me draw better! just have no desire to put concentration into it.
@amg0D: I'm the exact same way with my writing. It really just gets me motivated to write, but sometimes it really does just give me some awesome ideas...or I get stoned, have an idea comes to me while doing something unrelated, and then I write like crazy.
@spike6385: Well, I've smoked a bunch of times and I can corroborate ricardofreitas' claim. On top of some pretty annoying dry mouth, weed really fucks with my head. I don't recall any pleasant experiences with weed because it tends to exacerbate things I'm presently depressed about.
Now, I'm not trying to discourage the usage of weed (it probably should be legal), but you can't make ignorant comments like that and expect weed to be legalized. Remember, you're trying to convince the government, so be smart about it. To argue that weed has no negatives like the ones he pointed out is naive. You're arguing against people who will provide proof that those negatives exist. The strongest argument is to disprove the opposition in that those negatives are null and non-detrimental to society.
@goldenroad: I've never smoked pot, or cigarettes for that matter (I'm actually allergic to tobacco, though very mildly). I was a good drunk for a while, and I don't do that anymore either. I'd rather not screw up my brain, my lungs, or my liver. And THC DOES screw up your brain... It can interfere with memory. So can drinking, of course, but... Again, it's another thing I don't do anymore (except the occasional drink at birthday parties and weddings. I never get drunk anymore)
I get the feeling this is just one of those meaningless references to pot people make so they can feel like they're being a rebel.
Don't get me wrong, while I don't smoke, I do support it's legalization. I just get really annoyed by all the "pot culture". 420 and such, it's all silly if you ask me.
People are going to smoke pot, that doesn't bother me. Just don't act like you're being all noble fighting the establishment. I don't play video games to prove a point or fight the government, I play them because I enjoy them.
@QualityJeverage: Yup you nailed it. "420" is for highschool kids that think they are sweet. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go meet Mr. F at the big yellow joint.
@QualityJeverage: I agree with you. While I do enjoy chuckling with my buddies when 420 rolls around, we don't go out of our way to make sure everyone knows what we do.
But the point of adding it into games, I guess, is to further press it into the mainstream. Besides, whats wrong with putting something you like into a game you made? :)
i would want a responsible pot smoking adult to promote marijuana, not a gangster.
somehow i feel a responsible person can give it a good name and let people know it isn't that bad.
@Danarcho:
Damn... that's a really dumb comment. Ever heard of Carl Sagan? Brilliant scientist, star of the 1980s "Cosmos" series, Author of several science books, and at least one science fiction novel. Oh... and avid pot smoker.
@SacGamer: Exactly and the worst thing about it is that because it's illegal, the real bad people are exploiting it to fund their other, more serious, criminal activities.
At least this game gets the message across in some form, even if it is just two words and a frequency.
@SacGamer: I agree, and I haven't seen any of the pot references in GTA myself.
But aren't some of the pot smokers relatively harmless characters who are simply mellow and non-violent? Much like the stereotypical "stoners" we've seen in movies.
Though that isn't a positive stereotype either.
What I hate the most is how society makes it that there can't be positive marijuana models in society, if you speak about weed you're going to get a random drug test and than fired, regardless of performance. If they know you smoke weed you won't be promoted, again regardless of performance.
Companies won't hire you if they know you do weed, yet cigarette smokers are expected in the work place.
We're going to have to work hard to legalize it, then get positive leaders in high positions in the corporate scene.
@SaanZ: It has more to do with I can not see straight after a few drinks, but after a few bowls I see just fine, saying that it's easier to get doesn't make it do more damage, simply drinking to much can kill a person, smoking to much has never killed anyone, EVER!
@DontTouchMyDaughterYouFilthyGa...: not only alchohol. cigarettes alone have killed a lot more people than weed can take credit for, probably more than most wars can take credit for, maybe even extinctions. :/
@nekocomet: I weep for the US deficit and the simple honest fact that if they decriminalized marijuana and sold it legally and taxed the shit out of it, we could damn near solve most of our deficit in roughly ten years. But that won't happen. So here's to booze!
@NeVeRMoRe666: Well, to be honest, since we no longer work on a gold-standard and are in a paper market, debt really doesn't matter. The entire rules of economics are drastically different than they've ever been.
The people being laid off is really just complete BS. The entire crisis happened because the economy was riding on bubble economics. The problem is that banking is intrinsically tied to housing. When the housing market collapsed (as many predicted since 2003 when the bubble began massively expanding despite the lack of population boom), it took the banks with it.
People are whining and crying about the bankers. "How dare they do this!" That's all just smoke and mirrors. The real assholes were the housing marketers and Wall Street.
You had developers cranking out cheaply made houses in hopes of reaping massive profits. You had house-flipping running rampant (which TLC and Home & Garden TV were pimping en masse). All of these people were massively inflating the value of houses and flooding the market. There simply was not enough of population boom or population influx with enough wealth to meet the supply.
This isn't to say that banks didn't carry some of the burden. According to the National Banking Association, in 2004 23% of all loans were for flipping houses. The banks saw the opportunity and the need to supply loan options for those flipping houses. So they went to the FDIC with all sorts of insane loan packages, such as being able to not pay interest on your loan and tack it on to your overall debt. A crazy idea for a home owner, but made sense if you planned to sell it within a few weeks or a month. The FDIC rubber-stamped the loan packages and off the banks went.
Then Wall Street saw an opportunity to skim some money off the top of this booming business. They bought these loans from banks and packaged them into massive security bundles. They then sold these to foreign investors with the original intent being that, as these houses got paid off, the investors would be able to reap marginal benefits. These marginal benefits, a few thousand off each loan, would add up to significant wealth boons when packaged with bunches of these loans. Essentially making potential profit margins in the tune of millions of dollars. If these loans were mostly comprised of house flipping loans, which most were, then the loan payments (and interest from which the investor would profit) would be paid off in lump sums at a fairly high rate, instead of a slow trickle rate (which normal home-buyer loans would pay off as).
So, when the housing bubble collapsed, as all bubbles eventually do, it took down many of the uber-wealthy that had invested in these, many of the banks, and many people who got caught up in the house flipping "get rich quick" craze. It is estimated that 30%-40% of the defaulted loans were taken out for house flipping. These people were hoping that they could sell these houses quickly and get back their investment plus some extra. Many of these people didn't have the backup capital needed to have such an investment fail. Essentially, they were gambling with money they didn't have. When the banks suddenly began losing 25% or more of their money; very, very large sums of their money, they had to raise interest rates on their adjustable rate loans, which put heavy strains on the poorer who had bought into these low-rate loans.
I realize this all sounds horrendously complex, but it's basically trickle-down bankruptcy. The big guys lost a bunch of money because the bank loans weren't being paid, the banks lost a lot of money and tried to recoup it from other places (mainly adjustable rate loans), and those people were horribly strained and couldn't pay up. It wasn't poor people that fucked things up, it was house flipping. It wasn't the bankers that caused this, they were just the enablers.
@stupid_mcgee: simply the stupidest: Even though I knew the premise of everything you said I learned quite a bit about the intrinsical aspects. Thanks. I feel smarter already :)
07/23/09
Regarding the general lack of positive portrayal of cannabis in video games, I think this comes down to the fact that, for the most part, games tend to shy away from anything controversial. Political issues where public opinion is largely mixed are avoided by most developers.
07/23/09
07/23/09
I have Crohn's disease and pot helps me maintain my appetite plus some pain alleviation. Unfortunately, I don't live in a state thats legalized Marijuana for medicinal purposes. Sometimes I go a couple days without wanting to eat because it makes me nauseous. Of course, the getting high part is nice too.
Still, I get a little self conscious and annoyed when pot references invade entertainment. Even though drinking plays a heavy part in media and almost always in a positive light I hate when people throw out 420 or some other stoner culture reference. Its like...yeah I like to smoke pot...but that doesn't mean I have to talk about it like we're part of some cool dudes club.
At the same time, I know that if pot smokers don't speak out then we'll go back to popular culture believing pot causes people to jump out windows and commit random acts of rape.
07/23/09
Also, it all sounds kinda low-brow. They're making a GTA clone and saying "yeah...huh-huh...weed!" I haven't played it, but from the art, shots, and stuff like this, it sounds like some suit is sitting in a room watching rap videos and yelling "Pot! The kids love the pot!"
It just seems stupid and there just because they can, which makes it hardly worth mentioning in passing, let alone a story on this site.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
Prohibition just doesn't work, and the USA of all countries should know this. People should be educated, not controlled. If people knew beforehand the effects of these drugs, we'd have a lot less addicts.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
It is not that hard at all. Just go to any heavy drinking party or concert.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
Keighley's the worst though. He has a forum in which to promote this cause at least twice a week on GT Yet he just sits there baked and yet does nothing to help promote our cause.
We all do it, just come out and admit it gamers.
07/23/09
07/23/09
Then at least we all know someone who does it. At least one person we care about has probably used it and no one wants anyone they care about to go to jail for that reason.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
When you start place getting off ahead of moving ahead you lose your right to cope and I hit you with my car.
Still, we need to legalize the bloody thing and make the potheads shut the hell up.
07/23/09
Actually marijuana is one of those drugs/medications that can have very different effects depending upon the biology of the user. For some it's an appetite stimulant, for others an appetitie depressant. For some it eases nausea and for others it causes nausea. For SOME it can increase depression, for others it CAN alleviate depression.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
And no, we don't all do it, gamers are as diverse as any other group.
07/23/09
You can't really believe that. Alcohol is legal (and highly addictive) and not everyone drinks. Tobacco is legal (and highly addictive) and not everyone smokes. Marijuana is not addictive, so why would everyone start doing it just because it's legal? And why would that be ALL everyone would do?
The only reason I want it to be legal is because I don't think that people should go to jail or have a ciminal record for doing something that is no worse for you than taking an asprin. It has nothing to do with the availabilty of it. You want weed? Just go to any high school parking lot at lunch.
If it were legal it would not be sold in schools or back alleys. It could be regulated and it could be controlled. And it could be taxed to hell to fund programs to try to keep kids from getting into other kinds of worse drugs like crack, meth or alcohol.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
So true. I can't think of the last time I saw a stoned person get into a fight or even suffer a hangover.
Getting high once in a while, especially using a substance that isn't physically addictive, should be the least of everyone's worries. Everything in moderation, kiddies. For god's sake, regular consumption of junk food and red bull have more profound physical effects on the human body.
I haven't taken anything more than advil in years aside from the odd glass of red wine, but even I know that full-on drug prohibition is a crock.
No one needs a criminal record because they smoke pot. No one.
07/23/09
Marijuana should be legalized, but the pseudo-religious "legalize it" crowd needs to go away. So annoying.
07/23/09
lmao. I think that says more about you than the world at large.
07/23/09
07/23/09
and you probably don't understand how it helps them, I'm an artist, and love to draw, but have no desire to draw unless I'm stoned, it doesn't make me draw better! just have no desire to put concentration into it.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
Now, I'm not trying to discourage the usage of weed (it probably should be legal), but you can't make ignorant comments like that and expect weed to be legalized. Remember, you're trying to convince the government, so be smart about it. To argue that weed has no negatives like the ones he pointed out is naive. You're arguing against people who will provide proof that those negatives exist. The strongest argument is to disprove the opposition in that those negatives are null and non-detrimental to society.
07/23/09
07/23/09
Don't get me wrong, while I don't smoke, I do support it's legalization. I just get really annoyed by all the "pot culture". 420 and such, it's all silly if you ask me.
People are going to smoke pot, that doesn't bother me. Just don't act like you're being all noble fighting the establishment. I don't play video games to prove a point or fight the government, I play them because I enjoy them.
07/23/09
07/23/09
But the point of adding it into games, I guess, is to further press it into the mainstream. Besides, whats wrong with putting something you like into a game you made? :)
07/23/09
somehow i feel a responsible person can give it a good name and let people know it isn't that bad.
07/23/09
This just in: Obama smokes bud, says it's ok!
07/23/09
Damn... that's a really dumb comment. Ever heard of Carl Sagan? Brilliant scientist, star of the 1980s "Cosmos" series, Author of several science books, and at least one science fiction novel. Oh... and avid pot smoker.
07/23/09
07/23/09
If it is an adventure, RPG, or some game deemed acceptable for children and young teenagers to play, having pot alone would give the game a M rating.
You have no choice but to put an illegal drug in a game where the protagonist lives in a criminal subculture.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
At least this game gets the message across in some form, even if it is just two words and a frequency.
07/23/09
But aren't some of the pot smokers relatively harmless characters who are simply mellow and non-violent? Much like the stereotypical "stoners" we've seen in movies.
Though that isn't a positive stereotype either.
What I hate the most is how society makes it that there can't be positive marijuana models in society, if you speak about weed you're going to get a random drug test and than fired, regardless of performance. If they know you smoke weed you won't be promoted, again regardless of performance.
Companies won't hire you if they know you do weed, yet cigarette smokers are expected in the work place.
We're going to have to work hard to legalize it, then get positive leaders in high positions in the corporate scene.
07/23/09
I dont do it myself, but I am not against the use of it.
Alcohol does far more damage.
With that said, well said.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
That may have something to do with it.
But the impairments are far different.
It all comes down to self control as an individual obviously.
07/23/09
04/04/09
"You're all so stupid because you smoke weed! /shot of whiskey"
"Don't you have anything better to do with your life?! /opens beer"
That being said; this is still pretty stupid.
04/04/09
alcohol is way less productive and leads to more problems than weed ever has.
people who talk shit about teh pots have no business saying said shit unless they've actually puffed one themselves.
04/04/09
04/04/09
04/04/09
04/04/09
04/04/09
04/04/09
04/04/09
04/04/09
04/04/09
The people being laid off is really just complete BS. The entire crisis happened because the economy was riding on bubble economics. The problem is that banking is intrinsically tied to housing. When the housing market collapsed (as many predicted since 2003 when the bubble began massively expanding despite the lack of population boom), it took the banks with it.
People are whining and crying about the bankers. "How dare they do this!" That's all just smoke and mirrors. The real assholes were the housing marketers and Wall Street.
You had developers cranking out cheaply made houses in hopes of reaping massive profits. You had house-flipping running rampant (which TLC and Home & Garden TV were pimping en masse). All of these people were massively inflating the value of houses and flooding the market. There simply was not enough of population boom or population influx with enough wealth to meet the supply.
This isn't to say that banks didn't carry some of the burden. According to the National Banking Association, in 2004 23% of all loans were for flipping houses. The banks saw the opportunity and the need to supply loan options for those flipping houses. So they went to the FDIC with all sorts of insane loan packages, such as being able to not pay interest on your loan and tack it on to your overall debt. A crazy idea for a home owner, but made sense if you planned to sell it within a few weeks or a month. The FDIC rubber-stamped the loan packages and off the banks went.
Then Wall Street saw an opportunity to skim some money off the top of this booming business. They bought these loans from banks and packaged them into massive security bundles. They then sold these to foreign investors with the original intent being that, as these houses got paid off, the investors would be able to reap marginal benefits. These marginal benefits, a few thousand off each loan, would add up to significant wealth boons when packaged with bunches of these loans. Essentially making potential profit margins in the tune of millions of dollars. If these loans were mostly comprised of house flipping loans, which most were, then the loan payments (and interest from which the investor would profit) would be paid off in lump sums at a fairly high rate, instead of a slow trickle rate (which normal home-buyer loans would pay off as).
So, when the housing bubble collapsed, as all bubbles eventually do, it took down many of the uber-wealthy that had invested in these, many of the banks, and many people who got caught up in the house flipping "get rich quick" craze. It is estimated that 30%-40% of the defaulted loans were taken out for house flipping. These people were hoping that they could sell these houses quickly and get back their investment plus some extra. Many of these people didn't have the backup capital needed to have such an investment fail. Essentially, they were gambling with money they didn't have. When the banks suddenly began losing 25% or more of their money; very, very large sums of their money, they had to raise interest rates on their adjustable rate loans, which put heavy strains on the poorer who had bought into these low-rate loans.
I realize this all sounds horrendously complex, but it's basically trickle-down bankruptcy. The big guys lost a bunch of money because the bank loans weren't being paid, the banks lost a lot of money and tried to recoup it from other places (mainly adjustable rate loans), and those people were horribly strained and couldn't pay up. It wasn't poor people that fucked things up, it was house flipping. It wasn't the bankers that caused this, they were just the enablers.
04/05/09