Just when I thought I could escape my excitement for the final season I come here and see this. Thanks a lot Totilo.
I just really don't see why this show gets the kind of hate that it does. I mean I've been wrapped up in the plot since day one. I've yet to see Damon and Carlton do any wrong, well except for Nikki and Paulo, but we'll let that one slide.
That must be why most of the Horowitz-Kitsis episodes are no good, too much Galaga and too little actual writing. They're usually responsible for the corny/funny/heartfelt episodes that do little to progress the plot.
@Doomstink: How are you going to fault the guys who tied Sayid to a tree and gave him LSD, ripped Montand's arm off with the smoke monster, killed Charlotte, made Charlie try to drown a baby, AND buried Nikki and Paulo alive?
@jayislost: Because for every episode they did something cool, they had one where absolutely nothing progressed plot-wise. Mainly the stuff they did for season 3 (the season they're discussing here)... that Nikki and Paulo episode (while awesome for killing off two of the worst characters ever to grace the show) barely did anything for the plot beyond killing off characters that had only been on the show for a few episodes and had done nothing worthwhile.
Galaga does have a kill screen of sorts as I recall, went browsing through Don Hodge's page of arcade fixes about a month ago out of interest [donhodges.com]
Galaga is so rad. I used to live in the EV, right across from this deep-fried hot dog shack called Crif Dogs. In addition to delicious, deep-fried hot dogs, Crif Dogs also had a Galaga machine. I played often.
Lost started out phenomenally well (arguably with the best first season of any show *ever*) but has since devolved into crap. I know some people like to DELUDE themselves into believing it's "the thinking man's show", but in fact it's a show for the kind of man who believes that nothing is knowable about the universe and that man is forever mired in the sauce of his own ignorance.
Not to mention, let's face it: A time traveling *island* is epic shark jumping. Hell, that shark wasn't just jumped, it was gang raped.
@The_Foo: Hey, I'm not saying it's a terrible show: it's well acted, well shot, and is *technically* proficient at everything but story. The first two seasons were awesome for character development but miserable for story, then they switched gears and it's been mediocre for character development and confused for story ever since.
About the only thing that can redeem Lost at this point is if in the end it turns out that Ben was the good guy all along and the rest of the cast are just the ignoramous fuckups they've presented as for the last entire season. and a half.
Oh, and if they kill Kate, that would improve the show as well. I'm sick of her stupid ass MASQUERADING as a "strong female character" when in reality all she does is repeatedly fuck up and then whine like the worst kind of female weakling stereotypes. Give me a Buffy, a Fred, a Dagny Taggart, or even the sister from Dexter (speaking of which, Dexter is superior to Lost in EVERY way, and it actually has some MEANING to it) any day.
@jasongw: I absolutely loved seasons 4 & 5. The time traveling is great, it makes more sense than other shows (Heroes, Star Trek).
Also, I don't think the show needs a "strong" female character, but yeah, Kate is annoying.
@jasongw: I don't think any of us can make the judgement that the time travel or moving island or any of it is "jumping the shark" until we get the resolution and explanation.
Many of the things that seemed outrageous had quasi-logical (logical for genre TV/film) explanations that worked in the realm of the show. How much stuff last year explained all these seemingly random ideas from the previous 4 season? You got to the last 30 minutes of the finale and it was like click click click click. All the pieces falling into place.
I'm more than content to go along for the ride and trust than Damon and Carlton know where they're headed.
@jasongw: I would disagree with you about being well shot. It's good but I'm not sure I'd say that. Loads of things I could nitpick but then again it's probably due to working in the field.
Having said that I wouldn't say it's a bad show either. Sure Kate maybe annoying(and is most likely) but then again if we liked every character in a show that show is pretty much dead or you're a raging fanboy/girl.
I'm not someone who's going to attack your opinion or anyone's opinion for that matter. But it is a finite show isn't it and it's best to wait to pass judgement. I'm not going to say a book is horrible when I'm on chapter 16 of 20 now that I've read all the way to chapter 16 and did enjoy select chapters despite not liking certain overtones and plots, sub-plots and arcs.
Also comparing two shows that are different = apples and oranges. Both have an audience, sometimes they intersect, sometimes they don't.
After all, all long running TV drama shows are the modern day equivalent of Ancient Mythologies and stories deep down.
@jasongw: I agree with the first part of your comment, but if the island turned out to be nothing supernatural I would of been sorely disappointed. It's why I didn't watch the show when it debuted, I didn't think a primetime TV show would have the balls to go all out.
@gametr4x: Actually we believe they did entirely. If you read more into the history of mythology and stuff (had to actually for a thesis some years back) you'd find they actually treated it as a soap opera the various godly relations and what not.
Not everyone believed in those deities but a great number of people did. Also it was easier to blame someone for it. It's fascinating to realize what people believed and what we believe people believed in.
@octalass: Actually the time traveling in Lost makes virtually no sense whatsoever. It's definitely better than the 2nd and 3rd seasons of Heroes, but then, wiping your ass with sandpaper is better than those seasons.
In fairness though, Heroes season 1 was probably one of the best written time travel stories ever introduced as a long arc in a tv series (of course, there haven't been many).
Neither show makes particularly good use of time travel, however, so it's kind of a wash.
@jasongw: Kate's whiny and horrible now, you bet. But if you really want to talk about someone masquerading as a strong female lead, look no further than one Sun Kwon. She looked ridiculous waving the gun around in Ben's face. She had little to no on island presence, except for tailing around after everybody and that cringe-inducing "Do you really think he can find my husband?" business.
Don't get me wrong. I lovelovelove Lost. And I think, deep down, you might, too.
@WhatTheFrag: I don't know what you mean exactly by "working in the field" so I'm going to assume "a lot".
... Lost is easily one of the best looking shows ever. And it's sure drop-dead gorgeous to me. I can't imagine what you'd nitpick about it.
@jayislost: Editing glitches (no show is without them really - well most shows anyways). Sure sometimes I do get lost in the world of a show but that depends on how relaxed I'm feeling honestly, otherwise i just see the shots and the bits and pieces and the cuts and everything. It's horrible to get regular editing jobs sometimes because of what it does to your eye and your enjoyment of said visual medium (fortunately a bit past that but like my former mentor who's been in the industry for over 20 years said 'if you've gone in depth so far and can see it without noticing errors then you've done something special'
Also the shaky cam, really gets me sometimes, not always but there are emotions and juxtapositions that don't really need the shake (it was more subtle in season 3-4. a bit heavy in 1 or 2(can't remember) and it's back to being more heavily present in 5. It maybe due to classical training in cinematography but then again like I said it's just me.
The worst culprits for me are shows such as Heroes and PrisonBreak where they use sound to justify jerk clips and cuts. Look I'm not damning all shows or techniques btw, it's just once you have a trained eye - you really need to practice the bruce lee philosophy (mountain is just a mountain so on etc) otherwise you'll see most gaffes and errors and you can ruin someone else's experience in the process. I try to keep my mouth shut most of the time but seeing some movies beforehand and about over 200 a year can really temper your judgement.
@jasongw: Well, we did get Dharma's version of a time machine but Ben promptly blew that up. The show's implied from pretty early on that the island's been there a very long time and that whatever special-ness it has is a physical part of the island itself. The idea of an ancient time machine fits pretty well, I think. I'm not sure a futuristic one would worked any better.
@WhatTheFrag: Ok, I'll give you editing mistakes. I'll even let you have the shaky cam. I can see how it would annoy some people. But the colors and composition of some of the shots are breathtaking. Plus, it's pretty hard to film Hawaii wrong.
@FanBuoy: I have to wonder if people like this have even watched the show past the first season. Typically the same people who erroneously say, "they never answer anything! bawww"
@TRT-X: They've definitely BEGUN wrapping up loose ends (and about goddamn time, too), but they've introduced several as well. It's clear already that there were countless elements they hadn't thought of *at all* during hte first two seasons, which is, of course, why they've added an additional *cast* to the show since those early days.
@jayislost: The problem isn't with adding new cast members per se, most shows add and subtract as they go. The problem is that their core cast is now very nearly tertiary to the main plot of the show, with the primary drivers having become people who weren't even added to the show until late in the third season.
@jasongw: I don't think it's really fair to say the freighter folks drew attention away from the core cast. They were put in to push the Widmore story which, even if it wasn't directly planned from the start, was executed pretty brilliantly -- John meeting him early in his life and therefore inadvertently setting into motion the entire chain of events that would bring the Oceanic 6 back to the island. That was fun.
Besides, Lost is cyclical. Season 3 they're trying to get off the island, season 4 they're trying to come back. Season 2 they're in the ruins of Dharma, season 5 they're ruining Dharma. I gotta believe that season 6 will get back to the "real" cast members.
I currently have all episodes from Season 1 through 5 downloaded to a 120GB HDD on my 360. I watched all the Seasons 3 times through.
Now i'm starting my 4th run using Netflix streaming instead of swapping out HDD between games, it's sweet. Now all my friends will know what i'm watching with the new Update. No longer will they be seeing "Watching A Video"!
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but the real title is more interesting than it seems at first..
08/10/09
I just really don't see why this show gets the kind of hate that it does. I mean I've been wrapped up in the plot since day one. I've yet to see Damon and Carlton do any wrong, well except for Nikki and Paulo, but we'll let that one slide.
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Edit: Oh wow...this is terrible on YouTube...it was better synched when I first saw it on Super Deluxe. I apologize.
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[donhodges.com]
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Not to mention, let's face it: A time traveling *island* is epic shark jumping. Hell, that shark wasn't just jumped, it was gang raped.
08/10/09
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08/10/09
About the only thing that can redeem Lost at this point is if in the end it turns out that Ben was the good guy all along and the rest of the cast are just the ignoramous fuckups they've presented as for the last entire season. and a half.
Oh, and if they kill Kate, that would improve the show as well. I'm sick of her stupid ass MASQUERADING as a "strong female character" when in reality all she does is repeatedly fuck up and then whine like the worst kind of female weakling stereotypes. Give me a Buffy, a Fred, a Dagny Taggart, or even the sister from Dexter (speaking of which, Dexter is superior to Lost in EVERY way, and it actually has some MEANING to it) any day.
08/10/09
Also, I don't think the show needs a "strong" female character, but yeah, Kate is annoying.
08/10/09
08/10/09
Many of the things that seemed outrageous had quasi-logical (logical for genre TV/film) explanations that worked in the realm of the show. How much stuff last year explained all these seemingly random ideas from the previous 4 season? You got to the last 30 minutes of the finale and it was like click click click click. All the pieces falling into place.
I'm more than content to go along for the ride and trust than Damon and Carlton know where they're headed.
08/10/09
Having said that I wouldn't say it's a bad show either. Sure Kate maybe annoying(and is most likely) but then again if we liked every character in a show that show is pretty much dead or you're a raging fanboy/girl.
I'm not someone who's going to attack your opinion or anyone's opinion for that matter. But it is a finite show isn't it and it's best to wait to pass judgement. I'm not going to say a book is horrible when I'm on chapter 16 of 20 now that I've read all the way to chapter 16 and did enjoy select chapters despite not liking certain overtones and plots, sub-plots and arcs.
Also comparing two shows that are different = apples and oranges. Both have an audience, sometimes they intersect, sometimes they don't.
After all, all long running TV drama shows are the modern day equivalent of Ancient Mythologies and stories deep down.
08/10/09
08/10/09
08/10/09
Not everyone believed in those deities but a great number of people did. Also it was easier to blame someone for it. It's fascinating to realize what people believed and what we believe people believed in.
08/10/09
In fairness though, Heroes season 1 was probably one of the best written time travel stories ever introduced as a long arc in a tv series (of course, there haven't been many).
Neither show makes particularly good use of time travel, however, so it's kind of a wash.
08/10/09
Don't get me wrong. I lovelovelove Lost. And I think, deep down, you might, too.
08/10/09
... Lost is easily one of the best looking shows ever. And it's sure drop-dead gorgeous to me. I can't imagine what you'd nitpick about it.
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08/10/09
Also the shaky cam, really gets me sometimes, not always but there are emotions and juxtapositions that don't really need the shake (it was more subtle in season 3-4. a bit heavy in 1 or 2(can't remember) and it's back to being more heavily present in 5. It maybe due to classical training in cinematography but then again like I said it's just me.
The worst culprits for me are shows such as Heroes and PrisonBreak where they use sound to justify jerk clips and cuts. Look I'm not damning all shows or techniques btw, it's just once you have a trained eye - you really need to practice the bruce lee philosophy (mountain is just a mountain so on etc) otherwise you'll see most gaffes and errors and you can ruin someone else's experience in the process. I try to keep my mouth shut most of the time but seeing some movies beforehand and about over 200 a year can really temper your judgement.
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Besides, Lost is cyclical. Season 3 they're trying to get off the island, season 4 they're trying to come back. Season 2 they're in the ruins of Dharma, season 5 they're ruining Dharma. I gotta believe that season 6 will get back to the "real" cast members.
08/03/09
Now i'm starting my 4th run using Netflix streaming instead of swapping out HDD between games, it's sweet. Now all my friends will know what i'm watching with the new Update. No longer will they be seeing "Watching A Video"!
LOST is a great show, no doubt about it.
05/13/09
05/13/09
Seems more about the random messaging than anything.
05/13/09
It forces you to play a Bejeweled clone.