Umm - hold up... How about a hulk game where you're not just in hulk mode all the time, but you're Bruce Banner. The game starts and you're in a lab or something, getting oriented with the controls by toggling switches and doing some labwork that eventually leads to your exposure to gamma radiation. Next up your escaping the wreckage, as a man whos just been through some catastrophic explosion and the game is telling you x to jump, and b to crouch, and all that fun stuff. you come to a point where you're blocked off and all your newly learned moves can't help you. BUT WAIT! switch to cutscene of him panicking, and eventually turning into the hulk.
After that we get a hulk game thats written by actual comic book writers - that truly deals with bruce banner running for his life from a government that wants to weaponize him. The game could be stealth action and puzzle solving, with a flip side of chaos and ultimate destruction.
There could be a slew of extras modes that allow you to do fun stuff with the hulk, like bowl with cars, play baseball with streetlights, or golf or some other stuff. I dunno - could just be fun to unlock some silly things like that. Or not.
Anywho - game devs have been missing out on the whole bruce banner aspect of the hulk. The vulnerable side thats learning his new found powers.
@krichmar: Makes me think of this. :p Yet I thought people loved Ultimate Destruction? Really, the article is all gloom and doom, but super hero games have definitely been on the upswing I think with fewer examples relying on stagnant video game conventions.
Batman can take out every superhero. He could even jump universes and level Galactus and still make it home in time to catch reruns of "The Gray Ghost." He's even set to make an awesome video game starring Batman, which most people said was impossible. Batman notwithstanding my ass!
@optimusp: Uh, actually, if anyone really knows comics, and not that overblown mainstream notion that "Batman pwns all!!" thanks to comics like Dark Knight Returns (not saying it's a bad comic at all), they'll know that Superman would wipe the floor with Batman.
I love the guy (probably my fave DC hero after Flash), and I don't even like Superman, but Bats is hugely overrated in these fantasy fights.
I mean, it's awesome how he always achieves those impossible wins using only his human wits and abilities and meticulous planning, but realistically, Superman is more than fast enough to take his head off before he even realises it enough to enact whatever crazy plan he's got in store.
@omgwtflolbbqbye: Haha that was an awesome finale to the battle! Epic indeed!
But yeah, sounds like we just about agree that Batman wouldn't (and shouldn't) stand a chance against Supes.
I'm inclined to believe those who argue for Batman in such a scenario do so just cause Batman is the cooler character, and has this rep for being badass and being able to take down anyone, which again, I always thought was overrated. The only time it truly worked IMO was the Grant Morrison run on JLA back in the late 90's.
If Superman was the major powered dude dressed in all black, with the mean kickass demeanor and edge personality, while Batman was the normal human goody-two shoes in a bright costume with red underwear on the outside, this wouldn't even be a debate.
That's the reason why someone like Captain America, who's roughly a hero with Superman's personality and Batman's abilities, isn't as popular as he could be.
If you ask me, in a straight-out fight, Cap would take Batman too, but most would disagree cause Batman is just so much cooler and more badass.
@firefly: If Superman was the major powered dude dressed in all black, with the mean kickass demeanor and edge personality, while Batman was the normal human goody-two shoes in a bright costume with red underwear on the outside, this wouldn't even be a debate.
It wouldn't be a debate because then Superman would then be the god damn Batman. :p
I do believe Batman can defeat Superman primarily because he does have one "power" which has increased exponentially over the ages: his intellect. The idea is simply that the man is so smart, so observant, and so impeccably well prepared that nothing can surprise him or pose a challenge he cannot overcome.
I would agree that this is rather ridiculous, but the same can be said when going back and looking at Superman's, Wolverine's, and most any other comic character's growth from origin to now. Personally, I loathe when Batman is inserted into the likes of the Justice League, because as excellent a character Batman is and how wonderful stuff like Bruce Timm's JLU certainly are, magic and superheroes just should not be a part of Batman's universe. Yet, since Batman's such a cash machine for DC, he has to be present in the DC continuity, and as a result, Batman sees his intellect, abilities, wealth, etc. raised to such a status so that he can be on equal footing more or less working among the gods as it were.
Why aren't superheroes compatible with character development ala RPG/Video Games again?
I seem to recall Marvel: UA doing it quite well with the roster it had.
And hey, don't knock Superman Returns. I loved that game and beat it to completion. The problem wasn't the save-the-ctiy-youre-invincible mechanic, it was having some of the most retarded bosses (really? the end boss of the whole game is three tornados attacking the city?) and too many god-awful one liners repeated over and over and over and over and (you get the picture)
@Komrade Kayce: Because Superheroes aren't about gradual growth like in RPGs. Spiderman doesn't level up. He gets all his powers in one freak accident, and then he gets a bunch more when he comes back from the dead. Every superhero with powers is like that.
And for those that aren't, I guess some gradual growth would make a little sense. But for the most part, we associate these heroes with the point where we start reading their stories. Batman's years of training aren't the main event to a Batman story; they're prologue or flashback, and rarely do these training periods lend themselves to gameplay very well. Most superhero-training that I've seen is a whole lot of target practice, beating up dummies, meditation, heroin withdrawal etc. etc.
@superberg: since when are there "podcast conventions?" This particular 1UP podcast was a pioneer in the format relating to our hobby, so perhaps you should find one of the other hundred gaming podcasts to listen to if the length isn't your thing.
It's rare to find a quality podcast over an hour. Hour-and-a-half tops. 1up yours/ 1up FM/Listen Up often go on for 2.5+. Just because they are the best doesn't mean they couldn't use some refinement.
I like gaming, and I think they have a lot of interesting things to say. But I can't listen to the same four people talk for three hours straight. They could easily cut this one long podcast into two. It's not like you have to run out to the store to buy more. Just add one more feed to your 'cast list. Things like four-minute warning could easily stand on its own, as could interviews. It might even make getting advertising easier, thus giving 1up.com a much needed revenue stream. As it is, it's basically free advertising for whatever games they cover.
When it comes to Podcast for conventions, This Week In Tech pretty much set the format right years ago. YES, YEARS AGO. BACK IN 2005. Several podcasts, each with a focused topic. 1up seems to be going for more of a diggnation vibe, which tends to clock in at 40-60 minutes.
@superberg: Yeah, several podcasts with a different topic would be great. A seperate one for Games for Windows, MMOs / WoW, one focused on the industry, one on the games themselves, mobile gaming...
Oh, wait.
The reason why ListenUp sometimes balloons in size is that 1Up tried having multiple podcasts and we all know what happened then.
@Brett Ryans: That's pretty much nails it, but innovation is hard, and when the bulk of development money is going towards acquiring and invoking a specific license, I doubt many developers have the budget and time to consider such factors as character specific gameplay.
@walkyourpath: Every once in a while, devs try. Spider-Man games do their best to nail the feeling, along with some of the Dragonball, Hulk, Naruto, Bleach, and Superman games too. The games that handle the transition from comics correctly are always amazing.
They're looking at the problem and blaming the wrong part of the equation. Just because the old way of making games doesn't fit for superheroes doesn't mean that it can't be done. It means that developers are unimaginative and unwilling to try something new.
I have faith that there's an equation out there that works.
I think that we still have a long way to in the "game design" department in all games especially any pre-established licenses. If we look at movies as any indicator for super-hero application it's going to take a few tries before anyone gets it right.
05/18/09
After that we get a hulk game thats written by actual comic book writers - that truly deals with bruce banner running for his life from a government that wants to weaponize him. The game could be stealth action and puzzle solving, with a flip side of chaos and ultimate destruction.
There could be a slew of extras modes that allow you to do fun stuff with the hulk, like bowl with cars, play baseball with streetlights, or golf or some other stuff. I dunno - could just be fun to unlock some silly things like that. Or not.
Anywho - game devs have been missing out on the whole bruce banner aspect of the hulk. The vulnerable side thats learning his new found powers.
I think i'll stop writing now.
Cheers.
05/18/09
05/18/09
05/18/09
Batman can take out every superhero. He could even jump universes and level Galactus and still make it home in time to catch reruns of "The Gray Ghost." He's even set to make an awesome video game starring Batman, which most people said was impossible. Batman notwithstanding my ass!
05/18/09
05/18/09
I love the guy (probably my fave DC hero after Flash), and I don't even like Superman, but Bats is hugely overrated in these fantasy fights.
I mean, it's awesome how he always achieves those impossible wins using only his human wits and abilities and meticulous planning, but realistically, Superman is more than fast enough to take his head off before he even realises it enough to enact whatever crazy plan he's got in store.
05/18/09
Even more epic than Santa Claus versus Darkseid...
[io9.com]
05/18/09
But yeah, sounds like we just about agree that Batman wouldn't (and shouldn't) stand a chance against Supes.
I'm inclined to believe those who argue for Batman in such a scenario do so just cause Batman is the cooler character, and has this rep for being badass and being able to take down anyone, which again, I always thought was overrated. The only time it truly worked IMO was the Grant Morrison run on JLA back in the late 90's.
If Superman was the major powered dude dressed in all black, with the mean kickass demeanor and edge personality, while Batman was the normal human goody-two shoes in a bright costume with red underwear on the outside, this wouldn't even be a debate.
That's the reason why someone like Captain America, who's roughly a hero with Superman's personality and Batman's abilities, isn't as popular as he could be.
If you ask me, in a straight-out fight, Cap would take Batman too, but most would disagree cause Batman is just so much cooler and more badass.
05/18/09
It wouldn't be a debate because then Superman would then be the god damn Batman. :p
I do believe Batman can defeat Superman primarily because he does have one "power" which has increased exponentially over the ages: his intellect. The idea is simply that the man is so smart, so observant, and so impeccably well prepared that nothing can surprise him or pose a challenge he cannot overcome.
I would agree that this is rather ridiculous, but the same can be said when going back and looking at Superman's, Wolverine's, and most any other comic character's growth from origin to now. Personally, I loathe when Batman is inserted into the likes of the Justice League, because as excellent a character Batman is and how wonderful stuff like Bruce Timm's JLU certainly are, magic and superheroes just should not be a part of Batman's universe. Yet, since Batman's such a cash machine for DC, he has to be present in the DC continuity, and as a result, Batman sees his intellect, abilities, wealth, etc. raised to such a status so that he can be on equal footing more or less working among the gods as it were.
05/18/09
I seem to recall Marvel: UA doing it quite well with the roster it had.
And hey, don't knock Superman Returns. I loved that game and beat it to completion. The problem wasn't the save-the-ctiy-youre-invincible mechanic, it was having some of the most retarded bosses (really? the end boss of the whole game is three tornados attacking the city?) and too many god-awful one liners repeated over and over and over and over and (you get the picture)
05/18/09
And for those that aren't, I guess some gradual growth would make a little sense. But for the most part, we associate these heroes with the point where we start reading their stories. Batman's years of training aren't the main event to a Batman story; they're prologue or flashback, and rarely do these training periods lend themselves to gameplay very well. Most superhero-training that I've seen is a whole lot of target practice, beating up dummies, meditation, heroin withdrawal etc. etc.
05/18/09
But then thats what you have MvC for. Or the Spiderman games.
05/18/09
Wolverine has attacked a slime.
Slime is defected!
EXP 8 GOLD 2
Wolverine has leveled up!
Wolverine has gained a new power!
Healing Factor 2 -- Immortality!
Wolverine can now never die to anything presented to the player in the game!
...
Slime attacks!
Wolverine suffers 6 DMG.
Wolverine attacks.
...
05/18/09
05/18/09
05/18/09
It's rare to find a quality podcast over an hour. Hour-and-a-half tops. 1up yours/ 1up FM/Listen Up often go on for 2.5+. Just because they are the best doesn't mean they couldn't use some refinement.
I like gaming, and I think they have a lot of interesting things to say. But I can't listen to the same four people talk for three hours straight. They could easily cut this one long podcast into two. It's not like you have to run out to the store to buy more. Just add one more feed to your 'cast list. Things like four-minute warning could easily stand on its own, as could interviews. It might even make getting advertising easier, thus giving 1up.com a much needed revenue stream. As it is, it's basically free advertising for whatever games they cover.
When it comes to Podcast for conventions, This Week In Tech pretty much set the format right years ago. YES, YEARS AGO. BACK IN 2005. Several podcasts, each with a focused topic. 1up seems to be going for more of a diggnation vibe, which tends to clock in at 40-60 minutes.
Oh, and Retronauts is great. Love it.
05/19/09
Oh, wait.
The reason why ListenUp sometimes balloons in size is that 1Up tried having multiple podcasts and we all know what happened then.
05/18/09
rather than thinking "what new game mechanics can I build around this character"
05/18/09
05/18/09
Fixed.
05/18/09
05/18/09
05/18/09
They're looking at the problem and blaming the wrong part of the equation. Just because the old way of making games doesn't fit for superheroes doesn't mean that it can't be done. It means that developers are unimaginative and unwilling to try something new.
I have faith that there's an equation out there that works.
05/18/09