I prefer the original version as opposed to the anime version. Nice tits but the face doesn't look right and the original just had more style. And I miss the eye tattoo.
It's not an issue of "realistic" vs. "stylized" at all. Really look at the differences between the two. Note that the one designed by a Westerner has very distinct Asian features, while the one that was "adjusted" by an Asian fan to represent what appeals more to them has a blend of Asian and European traits. If she were a real person, she'd probably have one Japanese parent, and one caucasian parent.
when americans think "asian", they think "exotic", something like Angelina Jolie with really wide stretched eyes, more like "Cleopatra" has been portrayed in movies.
When asians with "occidental" they think "David Beckham" or "Leonardo Di Caprio" and of course, most people don't look like that A male with female's characteristics.
When asian think "asian beauty" they see naive, wide eyed, innocent beauty.
When occidentals think "asian beauty" they see a mid-30s geisha that call kill you, since she's also a beautiful ninja.
Your "five words experiment" touched on an issue I've run into while arguing about other subjects. Basically, are we comparing methods themselves, or IMPLEMENTATIONS of those methods? We can compare implementations of methods all day, and still not really prove or disprove whether one method is better than the other. For example, perhaps I find myself preferring the "realistic Faith" over the stylistic version. Does that mean that I therefore prefer realism over style? Not necessarily. It could be that I actually prefer the opposite, but it's just that the "stylistic Faith" is a poor representation of that particular method. In this case, the arguer therefore needs to establish that the implementations (in this case, the two different Faiths) are on equal terms to begin with so as to fairly represent their respective methods.
I've run into this fallacy repeatedly, like when someone is arguing that motion controls are basically bad. They'll take as examples a bunch of Wii games with tacked on waggle controls, and therefore conclude that motion controls are totally gimmicky and unnecessary. Again, that person would not necessarily be arguing about Wii controls themselves, but rather the IMPLEMENTATIONS of those controls. It could still easily be the case that their examples are just crappy implementations of a perfectly fine method.
P.S. Sorry if this was all a little rambling! It's kind of something that I've wanted to get off my shoulders for awhile.
I agree! I like original Faith more, but I've argued countless times for style over realism. Really, I'd rather have a game with well-drawn and animated low-res pixel art sprites instead of blank or hollow looking photorealistic characters.
Okami, Ragnarok Online, Odin Sphere, Kumatanchi, and Patapon just to list a few... and yet after so many years I can't even tell one grey space marine shooter from the next...
The way that I see it, the reason that women and men are always so hyper-sexualized is because people want to live out a fantasy. They want to be the bad-ass ninja that cuts peoples everything off and to win the affection and to save the big-breasted blonde.
I could understand that is why they made Faith so average looking, as opposed to being some sex icon. You are playing as her, and experiencing things as her as opposed to seeing her act out different things throughout the game, you're seeing it all from her perspective, how she sees it.
I mean, everybody wants to be somebody who is different or beautiful, but does that mean that they've got to be caricatures of what real people look like? How relatable would it be if faith was blond, and DDs, and her story revolved around her getting captured and escaping. Probably not that much.
As for the stylized graphics of Mirror's Edge vs the live-action style, I think that it's apples and oranges, but there is some intersection. A game like GTA4, where most of the people look like...well people. Or a Half Life 2, where most of the models are based on actual people. I can't speak for anybody else, but I think that's part of the reason that I've always felt like they weren't just characters but ACTUAL. Well not quite that far, but they always felt human. It wasn't ever "I am interacting with this character and waiting for them to stop talking".
On the opposite end of the spectrum there are games like TF2 and Rock Band, where nothing is really realistic, but is still pleasing to the eye and consistent with the rest of the world. Wouldn't Aliens have been weird if the queen had casted a magic spell at the end? Of course! Because it wouldn't have made any sense in the world they made, but a walking mech robot did make sense, and the same thing with it's stylistic choices.
Everything in the movie is hard, angular, and cold looking. Everything alien is smooth, organic and goopey looking. If there was an animated character in the movie, it probably would have stood out. Even if he followed the art styles of the rest of the movie, and why? Because animated characters can't look realistic enough yet. I think it's more of a technical then artistic limitation. Especially when we've got games like Heavy Rain coming out, and concept art for some games looks like straight sketches of people.
So I don't know if I really want something in the world of an ultra-realistic gritty GTA, or a toon town.
I think you've really hit on it - realistic or not, a game's style should be internally consistent. A realistic game is great. A stylized game is great too. Careless mixing can stick out like a sore thumb.
I also found your choice of examples very interesting - GTA4 is one of a few games I don't really mind "cut scenes" in. I'm actually interested in the plot, and the characters feel like they're there because they'll talk to you while following you around, and react to you, environmental factors, and so on. They can even be interrupted. On the other hand, HL2 is pretty much my textbook example of NPCs as "information kiosks" since they seem to respond more to you crossing trigger points than anything you really do - they're oblivious to you, and won't mind if you stack oil drums on their heads while they talk to you, or dance on their desks, kicking things off, and smashing equipment like a maniac. The game feels immersive until one of them tries talking to me, then it feels like I'm in a 3D movie, where it wouldn't matter one way or the other if I was there to listen to them (but of course I am because I always get locked inside a room when they're talking.)
"It's not that we hate big boobs. It's that we don't get why someone who represents values we admire would need to flaunt her breasts around."
Ok then here's my question: if our video game protagonist does in fact have big boobs, as this is a possible condition for women in reality, what would she have to do in order to not look like she's "flaunting" them around while being some sort of parkour badass?
That's a valid question, but there's an inescapable issue that a character in a game (or anime) will invariably be the product of design - so her appearance isn't up to the luck of the draw for genetics and nutrition - it's a design choice. Because of that, when I see the original I think... nothing really. She looks normal. When I see the "enhanced" version, I think "pfft... trying to hard to go for sex appeal!" If it were someone in real life, no such judgement would apply - in fact it could actually be sexy.
Original: violent, dynamic, festooned (I think the tats are silly), verisimilar, strong
Edited: worried, cliche, pandering, weak, cloying
I also find that what I'm attracted to in others falls in line with what I admire. When I get into excercise and weightlifting, I'm attracted to fitness in others, when I'm trying (in vain, orz) to pick up an artistic talent, I'm attracted to those who have it already. As my own goals and aspirations change, so too do my attractions.
10/31/08
10/31/08
10/31/08
10/31/08
/bookmarked Sexy Videogameland.
10/31/08
10/30/08
What i do give 2 flying shits about, though, is how both images don't give her a slightly toned-looking build, considering what she goes through.
In fact, media these days don't seem to like defining women with muscles. Even if they do they just get the worst treatment possible.
10/30/08
10/30/08
When asians with "occidental" they think "David Beckham" or "Leonardo Di Caprio" and of course, most people don't look like that A male with female's characteristics.
When asian think "asian beauty" they see naive, wide eyed, innocent beauty.
When occidentals think "asian beauty" they see a mid-30s geisha that call kill you, since she's also a beautiful ninja.
10/30/08
10/30/08
No, realisim is overrated, I play games to escape this cruel real world... I want my Faith with innocent eyes lower cheekbones and bigger bewbs now.
10/30/08
I've run into this fallacy repeatedly, like when someone is arguing that motion controls are basically bad. They'll take as examples a bunch of Wii games with tacked on waggle controls, and therefore conclude that motion controls are totally gimmicky and unnecessary. Again, that person would not necessarily be arguing about Wii controls themselves, but rather the IMPLEMENTATIONS of those controls. It could still easily be the case that their examples are just crappy implementations of a perfectly fine method.
P.S. Sorry if this was all a little rambling! It's kind of something that I've wanted to get off my shoulders for awhile.
10/30/08
I agree! I like original Faith more, but I've argued countless times for style over realism. Really, I'd rather have a game with well-drawn and animated low-res pixel art sprites instead of blank or hollow looking photorealistic characters.
Okami, Ragnarok Online, Odin Sphere, Kumatanchi, and Patapon just to list a few... and yet after so many years I can't even tell one grey space marine shooter from the next...
10/30/08
I could understand that is why they made Faith so average looking, as opposed to being some sex icon. You are playing as her, and experiencing things as her as opposed to seeing her act out different things throughout the game, you're seeing it all from her perspective, how she sees it.
I mean, everybody wants to be somebody who is different or beautiful, but does that mean that they've got to be caricatures of what real people look like? How relatable would it be if faith was blond, and DDs, and her story revolved around her getting captured and escaping. Probably not that much.
As for the stylized graphics of Mirror's Edge vs the live-action style, I think that it's apples and oranges, but there is some intersection. A game like GTA4, where most of the people look like...well people. Or a Half Life 2, where most of the models are based on actual people. I can't speak for anybody else, but I think that's part of the reason that I've always felt like they weren't just characters but ACTUAL. Well not quite that far, but they always felt human. It wasn't ever "I am interacting with this character and waiting for them to stop talking".
On the opposite end of the spectrum there are games like TF2 and Rock Band, where nothing is really realistic, but is still pleasing to the eye and consistent with the rest of the world. Wouldn't Aliens have been weird if the queen had casted a magic spell at the end? Of course! Because it wouldn't have made any sense in the world they made, but a walking mech robot did make sense, and the same thing with it's stylistic choices.
Everything in the movie is hard, angular, and cold looking. Everything alien is smooth, organic and goopey looking. If there was an animated character in the movie, it probably would have stood out. Even if he followed the art styles of the rest of the movie, and why? Because animated characters can't look realistic enough yet. I think it's more of a technical then artistic limitation. Especially when we've got games like Heavy Rain coming out, and concept art for some games looks like straight sketches of people.
So I don't know if I really want something in the world of an ultra-realistic gritty GTA, or a toon town.
10/30/08
I think you've really hit on it - realistic or not, a game's style should be internally consistent. A realistic game is great. A stylized game is great too. Careless mixing can stick out like a sore thumb.
I also found your choice of examples very interesting - GTA4 is one of a few games I don't really mind "cut scenes" in. I'm actually interested in the plot, and the characters feel like they're there because they'll talk to you while following you around, and react to you, environmental factors, and so on. They can even be interrupted. On the other hand, HL2 is pretty much my textbook example of NPCs as "information kiosks" since they seem to respond more to you crossing trigger points than anything you really do - they're oblivious to you, and won't mind if you stack oil drums on their heads while they talk to you, or dance on their desks, kicking things off, and smashing equipment like a maniac. The game feels immersive until one of them tries talking to me, then it feels like I'm in a 3D movie, where it wouldn't matter one way or the other if I was there to listen to them (but of course I am because I always get locked inside a room when they're talking.)
10/30/08
10/30/08
10/30/08
10/30/08
Ok then here's my question: if our video game protagonist does in fact have big boobs, as this is a possible condition for women in reality, what would she have to do in order to not look like she's "flaunting" them around while being some sort of parkour badass?
Get a breast reduction? :|
10/30/08
That's a valid question, but there's an inescapable issue that a character in a game (or anime) will invariably be the product of design - so her appearance isn't up to the luck of the draw for genetics and nutrition - it's a design choice. Because of that, when I see the original I think... nothing really. She looks normal. When I see the "enhanced" version, I think "pfft... trying to hard to go for sex appeal!" If it were someone in real life, no such judgement would apply - in fact it could actually be sexy.
10/30/08
>I think it's safe to say no one wants to become a little girl with her nipples showing.
Obviously, you've never been to some of the more..."back alley" forums.
10/30/08
I prefer the original visually anyway, but...
Original: violent, dynamic, festooned (I think the tats are silly), verisimilar, strong
Edited: worried, cliche, pandering, weak, cloying
I also find that what I'm attracted to in others falls in line with what I admire. When I get into excercise and weightlifting, I'm attracted to fitness in others, when I'm trying (in vain, orz) to pick up an artistic talent, I'm attracted to those who have it already. As my own goals and aspirations change, so too do my attractions.