Seriously? You're doing a piece on every piece of internet gossip during the last 24 hours - but don't want to touch the in-game advertisement update on Wipeout HD?
Even if it's designed to be easily rolled out on more titles in the future?
Here's a post on NeoGAF - I don't know - does that get your attention, even if it's actually well written and describes the entire time-line of the in-game advertisement project.. [www.neogaf.com]
@nipsen:
Eh, people whining about in-game advertising need to give it up and stop acting like immature children. It's not like your game is getting interrupted by commercials, it's just part of the game art, get over it. #lawsuit
@out-phaze:
Have you seen it in /this particular case/? It's tv-style advertisements on the loading screens. Loud, fractured, flashing. Not in the game's art style, not unobtrusive - and the background downloading affects the game significantly.
And all this is retrofitted to the game long after I've bought it for full price.
I mean, why the f.... why would I complain about a few billboards, or a product placement? #lawsuit
@nipsen: Old news, dude. And Kotaku has been following this story since it started: [tinyurl.com][tinyurl.com] That covers two of the three most recent updates in that link you provided.
The third? Well, I didn't notice anything huge that it mentioned. So what's that headline supposed to read? "New Wipeout Update Makes Loading Slightly Quicker By Tweaking Ads"?
Yeah, it's a bit effed up that Sony agreed to such ridiculous parameters for those advertisements in the first place, but this isn't really the time nor the place to discuss it. May I suggest "Talk Amongst Yourselves"? #lawsuit
Already done. The difference this time is that update 2.10 affects gameplay in ways that 2.0 didn't. And it's clear that the system is meant to be put into any game with loading screens. It differs from for example what EA has done with billboards and so on that you download a package of tv-spot ads to be rotated endlessly. It's not a development tool to assign random ad-resources to textures around the game-world. It's a separate application drawing resources during gameplay. And no, it does not "fix" the loading time problem, like Studio Liverpool says. Anyone playing the game now can tell. #lawsuit
I actually knew someone who said they planned on suing game companies because games are hard to play due to problems with his hands...
Call me insensitive, but if you're unable to do something, you're unable to do it. People shouldn't have to bend over backwards to open every activity up to everyone. I mean, ramps I can understand. Web readers I can understand. Subtitles and closed captions, yeah... But taking an experience that's centered around a sense and suing them because it doesn't accommodate your lack of it...
I'm surprised this is being levied against Sony, and not Microsoft.
Not only do they have more money, I've also rarely played a 360 game on an SDTV where I could actually read the text - and my vision is perfectly normal. #lawsuit
"On an unrelated note, a deaf man is suing Universal Records for denying repeated requests to make their songs punch him in the face with each beat. Universal Records had only this to say:
His argument would be slightly more valid if we actually knew the exact details of his impairment but the fact that he complaining that Sony didn't change something based on his feedback and his alone kills it completely...
That'd be like me suing Capcom because they wouldn't listen to my emails about including Jill Valentine in more games, Resident Evil or not... #lawsuit
If I were SOE, I'd be focussing on the public accommodation bit. It seems to me that as an MMO essentially charges "dues" for entry that it is in essence a private club, which may be exempted from Title III of the ADA.
It also strikes me that the accomodations being asked for are not "readily achievable." Allowing third party programs is a rediculously large headache when it comes to preventing cheating and the cost of developing internal tools to accomodate users who have impaired vision would be insane.
That's my case. MMOs are private clubs and the changes being requested are not readily achievable. Sorry dude. Life sucks, get a helmet. #lawsuit
It'd be nice to know exactly what form of visual impairment he suffers from that would hinder his ability to navigate virtual worlds. Barring this information, there is a concept called "Bona Fide Occupation Qualification", or BFOQ. It allows employers to weigh certain factors in when hiring employees that would exempt them from civil rights and anti-discrimination laws. For example, there's a recent case of a dude who wanted to work at Hooters as a waiter. The name of the restaurant is "Hooters", and they precluded him from the job based on the fact that he had no Hooters. He lacked the BFOQ for the job, and the courts agreed with this assumption.
Back to the point: courts have recently interpreted the BFOQ rule to apply to businesses with regards to potential consumers because a company going out of its way to accommodate a scant few individuals at the possible expense of a greater number of consumers (those with disabilities) may be a obstacle to....Oh yeah...interstate commerce. If Sony can prove that adding these enhancements might be to the detriment of the rest of their user base, the court would easily rule in its favor.
See, this is why I wish we knew what the nature of his disability was. We'd have a clearer understanding of his predicament (or if he even has one).
Now, as far as the "public" nature of online spaces...the concept of public domain and public trust have yet to truly make their mark on the world with regards to e-commerce and such, but seeing as the courts typically refer to common law to formulate precedent for cases involving online property and business, it could be argued that any service he signs up for that has a TaC/ToS is private in nature, and leaving the courts to define whether or not something is public or private?...Like you said, Owen: Larger ramifications. #lawsuit
@mintycrys is HOT for Bayonetta: "If Sony can prove that adding these enhancements might be to the detriment of the rest of their user base, the court would easily rule in its favor."
Or also it would be a completely unfavorable business model and would eat up so much of their revenue as to make the game completely unprofitable.
Imagine the research that had to be done or licensed to implement some sort of optical tracking cues or bio-feedback mechanism and extra programming to feed a partially blind person audio cues for effective travel. I have a hard time believing this would draw enough partially blind customers to offset that cost.
So either businesses can choose a business model to accommodate the majority, or they can choose to not go into business in the first place if they have to account for every possible human condition preventing enjoyment out of a video game.
@Adhominem: And see, that's exactly it. It will be expensive and the amount of capital Sony will earn on each visually impaired person less what they spent to accomodate that person is going to make it a sinkhole of a business proposition when there are many, many times more people who can pick up, play, and spend without the need for R&D-heavy enhancements.
But like I said: Interstate Commerce. The courts stick to it like glue. If it can be proved that by not accomodating him for his business, it is not in the interests of interstate commerce, Sony can be ordered to accomodate him. On the other hand, Sony could argue that by spending loads of money for a small handful of people, the money lost is a detriment to their ability to compete in the marketplace, and is therefore not in the interests of interstate commerce. It's a catch-all. #lawsuit
@mintycrys is HOT for Bayonetta: While this analysis of the law is probably accurate, the short, metaphorical answer is much simpler. This is like a deaf person suing the RIAA for not making music accessible to him. I would think the activity being inherently visual would make it somehow okay for it to be inaccessible to people with impaired vision. Like driving, which the government bars the visually impaired from engaging in. Maybe the media being new and complicated will let this guy grab some money somehow, but I hope not. Because while audio-only games may be in the future, right now all video games are inherently... video. #lawsuit
@Bloatus: Yep, that's his BFOQ. It's assumed that you have to be able to see in order to play games. Of course, he might be able to see, he might be totally blind, we don't know for sure. One thing's for certain: Either Sony will settle or it will be dropped. A judge will not want a case like this to go to trial. Discrimination suits are easy pickins for sleazy lawyers, and bad precedent might be set. #lawsuit
As a 508 complaint developer for government websites, it is very very hard to design games that are compliant. Many retail store websites are not even compatible with JAWS and other tools for the impared.
This gamer is likely suing for access, not financial gain, like many have guessed on this thread. I don't at all equate this suit to the idiocy of McDonald's "hot coffee" suit (not to be confused with GTA's Hot Coffee) or another suit of this frivolous nature.
Developers should absolutely be conscious of stuff like this. The option to make elements of the game accessible to those with disabilities is likely not cost-prohibitive or difficult for developers to implement.
The disabled don't comprise a huge demographic for gaming, but I know for certain that gaming plays a large role in the lives of many disabled people. Easily readable font, changeable font color schemes, tweakable controls, and so on are ways developers can say "hey, we get it" to disabled gamers out there.
The suit (pending its results, of course) should open the eyes of some developers out there. It's not a dire issue by any stretch, but it's an easy way to reach out to some whose lives are deeply impacted by videogames. #lawsuit
I completely understand that we should take care of those who are disabled, making games more accessible and the like however, if this guy is visually impaired, how does he expect us to make it better for him? I know it that it mentions WoW caters to the visually impaired in the article, but how? I mean the only thing I can think of that would help him is project the images into his brain. I mean it's all well and good to want to have everyone enjoy the same game but, if I'm deaf/near deaf I'm not going to sue the record companies for not making music accessible to me. I'm sure there is more detail to which I don't know, but I'm just skeptical of every lawsuit that comes up nowadays, because in all honesty after a woman microwaves her kitten, or someone spills hot coffee on their lap, it's very hard not to be skeptical nowadays.
@Covert_Knight: Depends on how visually impaired someone is. Doesn't mean entirely blind.
WoW has, among other things, an option to enable a colorblind-friendly mode, fairly large visual indicators for quests and quest objectives, and a modifiable UI that can be altered to suit the needs of the user. #lawsuit
As a person with a disability (wheelchair with weaker left side then right) I can understand fustration with some games having tasks that are tough even for able bodied people. On the other hand I also know they are marketing for the masses and most of us disable games most likely take up a small portion. I think Sony, Nintendo and MS have to be understanding of the ADA rules and be a bit more sensative but unless they have people on staff like most they do bare minimum. #lawsuit
11/08/09
Even if it's designed to be easily rolled out on more titles in the future?
Here's a post on NeoGAF - I don't know - does that get your attention, even if it's actually well written and describes the entire time-line of the in-game advertisement project..
[www.neogaf.com]
(Look - it's fricking NeoGAF, editors! WHEE! Must read! Yelp, yelp!) #lawsuit
11/08/09
Eh, people whining about in-game advertising need to give it up and stop acting like immature children. It's not like your game is getting interrupted by commercials, it's just part of the game art, get over it. #lawsuit
11/08/09
Have you seen it in /this particular case/? It's tv-style advertisements on the loading screens. Loud, fractured, flashing. Not in the game's art style, not unobtrusive - and the background downloading affects the game significantly.
And all this is retrofitted to the game long after I've bought it for full price.
I mean, why the f.... why would I complain about a few billboards, or a product placement? #lawsuit
11/08/09
The third? Well, I didn't notice anything huge that it mentioned. So what's that headline supposed to read? "New Wipeout Update Makes Loading Slightly Quicker By Tweaking Ads"?
Yeah, it's a bit effed up that Sony agreed to such ridiculous parameters for those advertisements in the first place, but this isn't really the time nor the place to discuss it. May I suggest "Talk Amongst Yourselves"? #lawsuit
11/08/09
[kotaku.com]
Already done. The difference this time is that update 2.10 affects gameplay in ways that 2.0 didn't. And it's clear that the system is meant to be put into any game with loading screens. It differs from for example what EA has done with billboards and so on that you download a package of tv-spot ads to be rotated endlessly. It's not a development tool to assign random ad-resources to textures around the game-world. It's a separate application drawing resources during gameplay. And no, it does not "fix" the loading time problem, like Studio Liverpool says. Anyone playing the game now can tell. #lawsuit
11/08/09
Wait, they're actual commercials, with sound?
Are you fucking kidding me? #lawsuit
11/08/09
I actually knew someone who said they planned on suing game companies because games are hard to play due to problems with his hands...
Call me insensitive, but if you're unable to do something, you're unable to do it. People shouldn't have to bend over backwards to open every activity up to everyone. I mean, ramps I can understand. Web readers I can understand. Subtitles and closed captions, yeah... But taking an experience that's centered around a sense and suing them because it doesn't accommodate your lack of it...
Ugh... That's just too much #lawsuit
11/07/09
Not only do they have more money, I've also rarely played a 360 game on an SDTV where I could actually read the text - and my vision is perfectly normal. #lawsuit
11/07/09
'auhhauhahghauh ahguh auhghuah nuahunauyagaun uahnu fuhauhanuna ufhaunua.'" #lawsuit
11/07/09
NOW IT MAKES SENSE! #lawsuit
11/07/09
That'd be like me suing Capcom because they wouldn't listen to my emails about including Jill Valentine in more games, Resident Evil or not... #lawsuit
11/07/09
It also strikes me that the accomodations being asked for are not "readily achievable." Allowing third party programs is a rediculously large headache when it comes to preventing cheating and the cost of developing internal tools to accomodate users who have impaired vision would be insane.
That's my case. MMOs are private clubs and the changes being requested are not readily achievable. Sorry dude. Life sucks, get a helmet. #lawsuit
11/07/09
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@Vonhert: #lawsuit
11/07/09
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11/07/09
Back to the point: courts have recently interpreted the BFOQ rule to apply to businesses with regards to potential consumers because a company going out of its way to accommodate a scant few individuals at the possible expense of a greater number of consumers (those with disabilities) may be a obstacle to....Oh yeah...interstate commerce. If Sony can prove that adding these enhancements might be to the detriment of the rest of their user base, the court would easily rule in its favor.
See, this is why I wish we knew what the nature of his disability was. We'd have a clearer understanding of his predicament (or if he even has one).
Now, as far as the "public" nature of online spaces...the concept of public domain and public trust have yet to truly make their mark on the world with regards to e-commerce and such, but seeing as the courts typically refer to common law to formulate precedent for cases involving online property and business, it could be argued that any service he signs up for that has a TaC/ToS is private in nature, and leaving the courts to define whether or not something is public or private?...Like you said, Owen: Larger ramifications. #lawsuit
11/07/09
Or also it would be a completely unfavorable business model and would eat up so much of their revenue as to make the game completely unprofitable.
Imagine the research that had to be done or licensed to implement some sort of optical tracking cues or bio-feedback mechanism and extra programming to feed a partially blind person audio cues for effective travel. I have a hard time believing this would draw enough partially blind customers to offset that cost.
So either businesses can choose a business model to accommodate the majority, or they can choose to not go into business in the first place if they have to account for every possible human condition preventing enjoyment out of a video game.
11/07/09
But like I said: Interstate Commerce. The courts stick to it like glue. If it can be proved that by not accomodating him for his business, it is not in the interests of interstate commerce, Sony can be ordered to accomodate him. On the other hand, Sony could argue that by spending loads of money for a small handful of people, the money lost is a detriment to their ability to compete in the marketplace, and is therefore not in the interests of interstate commerce. It's a catch-all. #lawsuit
11/07/09
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11/07/09
This is a silly frivolous case... #lawsuit
11/07/09
Developers should absolutely be conscious of stuff like this. The option to make elements of the game accessible to those with disabilities is likely not cost-prohibitive or difficult for developers to implement.
The disabled don't comprise a huge demographic for gaming, but I know for certain that gaming plays a large role in the lives of many disabled people. Easily readable font, changeable font color schemes, tweakable controls, and so on are ways developers can say "hey, we get it" to disabled gamers out there.
The suit (pending its results, of course) should open the eyes of some developers out there. It's not a dire issue by any stretch, but it's an easy way to reach out to some whose lives are deeply impacted by videogames. #lawsuit
11/07/09
11/07/09
I'll just hope this ends well is all. #lawsuit
11/07/09
WoW has, among other things, an option to enable a colorblind-friendly mode, fairly large visual indicators for quests and quest objectives, and a modifiable UI that can be altered to suit the needs of the user. #lawsuit
11/07/09
Gotcha. Though, when the day comes when it's being projected into your brain we won't have to worry :D
So all we need to know is, how visually impaired this bloke is. #lawsuit
11/07/09