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Denver, 2:01 PM
Sat Nov 28
27 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/24/09
The whole betrayal thing really ruined the game I'd say. Makarov was the primary villain, but after that he became essentially insignificant. All that for nothing, basically.
The final duel was interesting enough. Mostly scripted, but it was definitely shocking to pull a knife out of myself. I could almost feel it.
11/24/09
There are problems with how they told the story (or didn't tell it). I think if the gameplay wasn't so good it would have been reviled. But the gameplay is good.
Pawns in Shepard's revenge plot. On veteran difficulty, I got a little shell-shocked, a little PTSD. Never enough cover, too many people trying to kill you, never really understanding why I'm killing other people except because I was told to, dying and dying and dying. The betrayals of trust. Seeing peoples eyes as I killed them.
Makes me feel a little sick, recalling it.
11/23/09
And no, "Badass" is not a personality.
11/23/09
11/23/09
1) Price and the Nuke
Did he just... fire a nuke? I know the common myth is you can go to Russia and buy weapons grade plutonium like it was a loaf of stale bread, but how the heck did he fire a NUKE? Maybe he can read russian, but their security can't be that lax for a nuclear device... can it?
Possible resolution:
Is / was Price actually working with Mr. You-Know-Who and that's how he knew how to launch the nuke? If so, did the producers at IW watch too much Alias? (Price's mother is the real mastermind behind the whole thing, but she's not really evil because she was doing it to protect him! Or was she?!?)
2) The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming... from... where exactly?
Last time I checked, The US has Canada to the north, Mexico to the south, and the biggest oceans in the world on the left and right. How exactly did the Russians get an invasion onto American soil...? The amount of troops streaming down must mean they have a base of operations close enough they can send troops carrying planes constantly...
Possible resolution(s):
Ferry across the Bering Straight, take over Alaska with the rest of the country not noticing (hey it is Alaska), stroll through Canada (those Canadians are mighty nice people) and just setup camp at the Canada / US border?
11/23/09
As a whole, I thought the game ended very well. Ive heard a few complaints from friends that it seemed to abrupt and there was no real difficulty. While I dont disagree entirely, I always appreciate a game ending that avoids the common punishing boss fight to allow the pace to remain tense and interesting right up to the credits. The worst thing a great game can do is try to overstay its welcome by upping the difficulty right at the end just to prolong the conclusion. I thought MW2 ended like a great film. Left the narrative open enough for the inevitable sequel, but gave me enough of a sense of closure. I like the fact that our heroes are viewed as terrorists to the rest of the world and are forced to flee. The way MW 2 played with the common ideas of heroes/villains/anti-heroes was very refreshing and it was nice to see them stay true to that all the way until the end.
This discussion has been a very welcome and civil place to come share my opinions and react to others'. Too often game discussions descend into nonsensical arguments. The Game Club provided a consistently welcoming environment to discuss this game in mature, thoughtful company. I look forward to the future installments.
11/23/09
11/23/09
As mentioned before, Just Like Old Times made me a little uncomfortable in killing American soldiers as the game forced me to. Definitely not something I was expecting, nor something I wanted to do. Idk, Call of Duty games before always had a taste of patriotism to them, this game felt entirely different.
Endgame was rather fun. Nothing like a river chase that ends with a close up brawl with Sheperd. I raged as he stabbed his knife into me as I thought we were going to lose yet another character in the story. Thankfully Price showed up and saved the day and it was pretty awesome having to pull the knife out of your chest and throw it into Sheperd's eye. But yeah, major let down to the game just ending after that and leaving so much left unsaid for Makarov.
Overall, I was greatly disappointed with this game's campaign after the marvel of MW1. The first game had such a coherent story and numerous memorable moments that really shook up the gameplay. "All Ghillied Up" is one of the most stand out levels in any games I've played, not to mention witnessing Jackson's death as he looks upon the nuked city. This game was all flash and bang without the memorable mace spray in the face.
I definitely vote for the next game club to be on Uncharted 2!
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
#speakup
11/23/09
11/23/09
Also; next game should be No More Heroes 2.
11/23/09
11/23/09
The real reason though, is that there is a big red button on the reception desk that says "Do Not Push", and if you go up to it and hit X, well... you'll need your gun.
11/23/09
11/23/09
Just like Old Times and Endgame were fun and exciting levels. The crash and QTE finale of endgame were great. However that ending was abrupt and didn't feel like the end of the game. I thought after we Shepard was killed we'd be off to finish Makarov, but I guess that will be Modern Warfare 3.
After completing this game I'm left with a lot of questions about the story and the setup.
1 - How do the entire events of this game take place in less than one week.
2 - Who makes up the 141 and why do British SAS agents take commands from an American General
3 - How come Soap and the rest don't report to the British Government
4 - What happened to the allies of the U.S.
5 - Where did Shepard's Shadow Company come from. Or they a special Army Unit or are they Mercenaries
6 - Is Nikolai officially part of the 141 and if so how come no other Russians are a part of the team
7 - What is Makarov doing between the terrorist attack and the battle between his troops and Shepard
8 - Is Makarov a terrorist, rebel leader, mercenary or an ultra-nationalist.
Hopefully they can make the story make more sense in MW3
11/23/09
4. Because of what triggered the war, any allies may be reluctant to engage. And as GoonerVance pointed out, mobilizing support in under a week is unrealistic.
5. Extras from Die Hard 2.
6. I think Nikolai is one of Price's contacts and not officially in the 141. Dusting off the cobwebs, didn't you save him in COD4:MW?
7. Playing Left 4 Dead 2.
8. Simply a mater of perspective or convenience. To his followers, a rebel leader, to his enemies a terrorist, when he can leverage it for more power, he an ultra-nationalist. He's also a level 70 night elf hunter.
11/24/09
1 - I am aware things are going on concurrently I just wonder how realistic is for things to be invistigated and discovered so quickly. And how people are able to fly across the world so quickly
2 - the 121 reference niklavs.sipolins explained everything for this
3 - I just want to know if we'll ever see the rest of the S.A.S. or any or the UK Defense force become part of the story
4 - Given the short timespan of the story it makes sense for other countries not to have mobilized yet. I'm just curious how the rest of the world reacted to the events of the story.
5 - My guess they are a group of former rangers hired to be a part of a Special Ops squad that are loyal to Shepard but still officially operate within the U.S. military
6 - I just want clarity as to whether Nikolai is simply helping out a friend or if he is officially 141 member. Also I would like to know what happened to the Russian officer that saved Soap at the end of Cod 4
7 - I'm just curious if Makarov was scheming up another big plan or if we was busy dealing with the invasion
8 - Makarov could be all of these things. The main problem have is determining his motivation. Is it money, power, or a deluded sense of nationalist pride. Most villian beleave they are doing something for the greater good of their people, I'm just curious if this is what Makarov thinks or is he simply a powerful pawn motivated by Money
#speakup
11/23/09
In the next level, when you drop down and stab the guy, I thought they lingered on his face a little too long, it really creeped me out and I kinda wanted to stop playing for a while.
I thought the very ending was pretty nifty. It's fun when they spend a lot of time on the ending, changing up the mechanics just for a few seconds of gameplay. I felt pretty helpless crawling to the gun and struggling to pull the knife out.
In these 3 levels, I totally lost interest in the story. Coming into this game, I was hoping to have a game that was thoughtful, and at the very least, a little better than CoD4 in the story-telling. I was really disappointed... it turned out to be just another vessel for them to be able to create as many "FUCK YEAH!" moments as they can.
I may be crazy, but I think war should be sad. We get little hints of it from the airport scene and American levels, but overall the game is just trying to be more badass than the first, with so much crazy, unbelievable stuff going on that it's no longer in the realm of reality or even plausibility, unlike CoD4.
In the end the game is a crazy explosion rollercoaster ride, which is fine for what it is, but it's not what I was hoping for.
11/23/09
For example, what would happen if I tried to stumble in a different direction than the crash? Would the game automatically reorient me towards Shephard? What would happen if I lackadaisically tapped the X button to pull the knife out, rather than mashing on it with all my might? Would Shephard end up killing Price, or does the player ALWAYS pull the knife out and throw it at Shephard? Can you even miss with the knife when you throw it?
I haven't played it again to find out (has anyone else?) but I suspect that the final moments are completely linear and almost fully scripted. In fact, I imagine you would have to actually TRY to fail in order to "go off script."
But IW tricks the player into believing that they are in complete control of what is happening. I was practically screaming at the TV as I furiously mashed my X button to pull the knife out - it was one of the most intense things I have ever experienced in a video game. Part of me knew that I really didn't have that much control and that it was unlikely I would fail, but I nevertheless played through those final moments terrified of dying and letting Shephard win.
For those of you who were disappointed with the ending or thought it was lackluster, I'm truly sorry that (for whatever reason) you weren't able to experience it in the same intense, visceral way that I did.
11/23/09
11/23/09
I asked myself the same things but nonetheless had a sore thumb and dropped jaw by the end of that....
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
On the airport massacre I tried to get through the entire level without firing a shot. I just didn't want to shoot back. They were the shooting at me, but I'd just been part of a huge massacre, they were the cops, the good guys.
I eventually did, shoot back, but I didn't enjoy it.
11/23/09
11/23/09
#speakup
11/23/09
I'm not picking on you Cookie, this just seems to be a common sentiment that I've been seeing in this thread, and it really doesn't make any sense.
11/23/09
its possible and does happen...
[en.wikipedia.org]
I don't know how I would act in the aforementioned... if I would follow orders or be shot myself... I like to thank I would hold fast to my moral sense of duty upholding my ethics... which makes me glad for my anti-authority behaviors growing up but you never know...
11/23/09
I am, but I'm interested to see what people from other countries felt about that switch. There are few shooters, let alone single-player campaigns in shooters, that allow the killing of modern American soldiers, and though the response from Americans is naturally unease, what's it like for a Brit? A Brazilian? An Iraqi?
I think this raises more questions for me than the No Russian controversy, by far.
11/23/09
Or it could be the context, the character, the scenario. Mostly what I think separates this from GTA and games like it, is the sense of powerlessness. In Grand Theft Auto you're not told to do anything. You just want to do something and see how the game reacts. With the airport massacre, you have no choice but to take part in the slaughter, even if you don't fire.
It's powerful stuff, and it's the first time I've played through a level and thought, this only made me feel this way because it's a game.
11/23/09
It would have helped in the plot was a little more coherent.
11/23/09
But the shadow company? No. From the second I saw Shepherd casually smoking as these men poured gasoline on Roach and Ghost, clearly not in fear of him or questioning, I condemned them. I did try and not kill as many as possible- they were American troops after all, and some were probably good men- but they, like every solider, has a duty and an obligation to disobey any direct order that is illegal. It is part of the UCMJ, (Uniform Code of the Military Justice)
and some may have been ignorant to anything but Shepherd's orders and propaganda.
But the two by the helicopter at the end? I blamed them for the deaths of Ghost and Roach. They poured the gas in my minds eye. They stood by and watched as the madman burned them alive. If I could have killed them in a more painful way then stabbing, I would have.
To sum up a definitely tl;dr post- this game in a whole scared the crap out of me in a military way. And yes- I was conflicted, at best, in the killing of the Shadow Company- but the final three deaths in this game are the most deserved since Al-Asad.
11/23/09
The problem with your morals is that once you do enter the military the first thing they do is make sure you DO follow orders.
Sure, the advertisement talks about "smart soldiers" and "army of one" etc. but the reality is that an army cannot work if everybody does their own thing.
Add to this that you do not know the whole picture, just a small little slice, and you are basically at the mercy of your chain of command.
Moral etc. does not factor in at most cases, at least not at the time of "action".
I think IWs take on this was at least an honest one, there is a strong.... shall we say, "we are the good guys, ALWAYS" mentality in popular american culture and even if the guy at the top may be a bad guy, the people he orders around tend to be faceless and unidentifiable, be it in a movie or in a game.
For IW to actualy "go the extra mile" and make it clear that every single one you take out is a "brother in arms" makes this a bit more interesting.
Add to this that most of the Russian soldiers wear gasmask (and thus are automatically less human) or baclavas and you realize very quickly that IW did this on purpose.
The quotes during load screens as well as the dialogue in the game also makes it pretty clear that IW does not seem to believe in a "good" or "noble" war, but rather that war... well sucks.
My biggest "beef" with the game is that all of the realism they put in, as far as animation etc. goes stops the moment you actually DO kill, then it turns into an action movie where your targets just fall over and play dead, little blood, no screaming, no delayed death, just *pop* and they fall over, maybe still shooting at you a bit.
I personally think they SHOULD have gone the extra mile instead of presenting a sanitized version of war.
11/23/09
First of all, as soon as I realized I was Soap again there was quite the 'Hell YES' moment.
Then when I realized that I wasn't necessarily what most people were out to kill, I decided to have some sneaky fun.
I went at it mostly stealth. I kept to cover and only popped out to clear myself a path. Then I'd rush to the next cover piece and make sure no one had noticed me. And so on.
Maybe it wasn't necessary to play the level as such, but I did have lots of fun doing it.
Also, I love levels where your main objective is to 'run away'. For example, there was the time when you run across the rooftops to get to the chopper earlier in the game. This time it was running to the jeep, and then the chase was on.
It was also pretty sweet when the driver got shot and you had to steer the jeep into the plane yourself.
Other than that, Just Like Old Times was good as far as being stealthy with Price. Anything remotely like the flashback sniper mission in the original MW is automatically awesome. That mission rocked. Once stealth ended and the game reverted back to good old firefights, it became generic.
The raft level was okay. I haven't replayed it yet, but I'm pretty sure that where it was exciting the first time, it'll get very tedious with multiple playthroughs. It's main attraction is really how cinematic it is. Once you've seen it, well you've seen it. Kind of a one-trick pony.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
I hear its 18 hours, ya real short..
11/23/09
11/23/09
#speakup