@Kaminari: No, that's not the same. I didn't like Gone with the Wind, but I still can tell it's a good movie. I don't like FIFA, but I know it's a good soccer game. #killzone2
JUST FOR THE RECORD, if ANYONE played the multiplayer of Killzone 2, they would understand why sites like Gamespot gave it a 9. It's got one of the best structured maps, and as far as i can say, for a FPS, the best class system ever. If you want to differ please give me an example of any other FPS game with better class systems. The mechanics are really solid, the control makes it feel as realistic as possible up till now (you really feel the heaviness of being a soldier, you don't aim as easy as COD or HALO, which makes you feel as if you're naked, weigh as much as a dog and shoot through a flute), THE BEST graphics ever up till now in a FPS, and a challenging single player campaign.
If you didn't play it because you didn't thing it was good, do not comment. If you played it and consider it to be a not so great game, especially when it comes to multiplayer, you must be one of these players that are only satisfied with perfection, and that is a game every 5 years or so.
Or, there's also the chance of classic xbox fanboy-ism (which sadly still exists) and you just hate it and like to bash it. #killzone2
@benkatz: I agree with you on some points. Graphically Killzone 2 multiplayer (and in general) is clearly one of the best we've ever gotten bar none, PC included. I agree with you on the map structure but a couple of maps like Wasteland Bullet sucked. you spent far to much time trying to navigate the train cars as opposed to fighting. Overall, the good stages in KZ2 multi are really good.
My biggest problems with KZ2 multi was the "weight" aspect overall. I can understand if my character is carrying a huge machine gun that results in him turning really sloooooooooow. But it was the same carrying a pistol. These are soldiers? Why can't they whip and turn quickly when only carrying a pistol? High Precision basically put a band-aid on the problem. It's better with high precision but that took a control mechanic that was "terrible" and upgraded it to "bad".
It's a shame. I really like the recoil aspect to the weapons, the sound efx are top notch, custom soundtrack support is gravy but as I've said in the past, Sony made the PS3 with native mouse and keyboard support and developers just refuse to use it. As a result, controls will always be a problem in some way form or function with FPS games.(on a side note, Bioshock has no multiplayer what-so-ever and we STILL couldn't get m/kb support on the PS3 version. it's a disgrace) Even with auto aim KZ2 gets frustrating when you have an enemy in your sights and just can't get the damn crosshairs where they need to be fast enough for the kill. Too many times it's luck and not skill if you do get the kill. #killzone2
Not to bust your balls or anything, but i think it also has a bit to do with skill. I mean i'm deffinately not telling you you can't play or anything, but honestly for me, at the beginning, it sucked as well, then, after ranking up a bit while playing multi, i got really used to it. Then they made that precision option and it's even better. For me, right now, with the precision option on, it's probably the best and most realistic aiming out there. Also, i don't know if it's only me, but don't you guys (who play kz2) feel that the game offers the most satisfying kills ever? I mean the way it feels in the game when you kill an enemy, the animation and all, it just feels so realistic, as if you're actually in a war and killed a live enemy, not a bot or anything (both multi and single player).
As far as the maps go, you are right that SOME maps are not so good as others. (btw i just downloaded the latest map pack yesterday and i literally DID NOT FIND a single game with them on, however i found thousands with the other maps, do they suck or something or why doesn't anyone play on them?)
HOWEVER, i don't know if any of you guys remember, but a week or so BEFORE the game originally came out, there was an interview with the guerrilla guys (don't remember if it was gamespot, GT or here) where they said that their plans regarding the multi player in the future, besides some map packs they will be delivering shortly, will be vehicles and such. I can also put my money where my mouth is that the guerrilla guys are currently working on a new map pack, with much larger maps and vehicles, as they originally intended. I feel like that's the only thing missing from the game and will make it's multiplayer deffinately on level if not over the best multiplayer games out there. #killzone2
@benkatz: I definitely agree with the controls, it's a great feature that you grow to love. It makes the whole experience, from traversing the environment to swinging around a shotgun with one bullet left and blasting a Hig's head off all the more satisfying ;) #killzone2
While I respect it's authenticity, the music was underwhelming. It was more like a generic blockbuster movie score than anything memorable. Many games have had more memorable pieces, synth be damned. #killzone2
The Killzone series is the only series i've played where it actually feels like i'm at war. Especially Killzone 2. That makes it a unique and entertaining experience in yourself, to experience how surreal and disorienting it would be to actually be put in that position. #killzone2
I too have been consistently underwhelmed by the Killzone franchise with each game I played. I bought the original because it was described as a Halo killer. It was one of the worst FPS games I bought for the generation. Then I borrowed a PSP and Killzone: Liberation from a friend. Slightly better, but still mediocre.
By the time Killzone 2 was out, I had no real desire to try the game. I still don't. The shitty time I've had with the previous two games and the fact that the Helghast seem ripped straight off of the Protect Gear from the Kerberos series makes me avoid it like the plague.
For anyone interested, the picture tied to this post is a Protect Gear. [/rant]
On-topic, I will probably give this soundtrack a listen as I luuuuuurve me some video game music. #killzone2
@Rocketknight: It's actually a good game, if not great. Not the best FPS most certainly, but it's actually quite fun and the online was a blast for how long I played, which was about two months I believe.
Aside from that, the Helghast are obviously in British Robot Nazi attire! #killzone2
It's a rare sight to behold when the US gets an opportunity to purchase a game's soundtrack. The only other ones you see around stores are usually from Halo or GTA. Well, this is on iTunes, so may there are more on the service?
Also... OMG AN ARTICLE ABOUT A FPS THAT ISN'T MODERN WARFARE 2!!!
I was really underwhelmed by Killzone as well It wasn't bad, but I didn't realy find it that fun, and I have little desire to pop it back in my PS3. To each his own. #killzone2
i dont mind torture in video games. i do mind when its used as military propaganda. yes there are games out there thatll try to teach you torture is good. there is no excuse for real world torture. anyone defending it should be locked away in a cell far from the rest of the world because youre more a monster than a human being.
If you inflict fear and pain on a captive, you are torturing them. (I guess if they're free it's just fighting?) I don't care if you're just throwing ice water on them and letting them shiver, a spade's a spade.
I'd even go as far as to say that Jack Thompson's "murder simulators" accusation holds a little bit credence because playing tons of violent games will desensitize you to violence, and if the flow of a game regularly goes to torturing to get what you want, it will at least come to mind in such a situation in real life... his big failing is assuming that people will then go emulate it - that's a personal moral decision that's separate from inflicting it on avatars and NPCs, and the responsibility is entirely that of the person doing it.
Also... in Punisher you can CHROME A GUY'S HEAD... that doesn't even work in reality - it's cartoon torture and in my opinion, hilariously over the top. I think the presentation makes a big difference about what is disturbing or unacceptable.
@Nubius isn't on vacation...: Well, I think it would be pretty hard working in a hospital, but personally after growing up on violent media, at least since my teen years, I've found I'm largely desensitized to the various clips out on the net of executions, war casualties, and the like that some of my friends like to show off. I'm still taken aback when I see it, but there's no pit of the stomach visceral reaction now. Just kind of a "oh, that really sucks..." Now I'm really not into violent games anymore either, but I am sure that my hours in Mortal Kombat/Doom/Duke3D/SoF/UT/etc have dampened my preception of real violence.
Interesting article. I don't think I've played a game where I had to torture someone for information and the like (not that I recall, anyway), but what about all those games where you can be downright cruel to the bad guys, or the good guys for that matter?
Force Unleashed (may God curse its name forever more), is a good example. I had great fun hovering stormtroopers over great chasms whilst they writhed in my force grip, only to zap them with lightning, flip them high into the air, and watch them plummet to their doom.
Prototype, as well. I'm not as bloodthirsty in it as my flatmate (quite disturbing from a guy who's generally quite peaceful and is also vegetarian), and in fact I usually do my best to avoid civilian casualties, but there's something perversely amusing about grabbing a bystander and running up every tall building you can whilst they writhe deseperately in your grip, before flinging them off into the distance.
...Then again, maybe I have issues. But, on a serious note, would anyone else consider these actions to be torture? Really, they are. The player is causing lengthy stress and pain to the characters. Is that 'okay', whereas doing it in a scripted scene or event isn't? Or would those decrying these torture scenes never do such a thing in a video game?
Not torture per say, but when testing Legacy of Kain I stopped playing very early in the game because the mechanism to regain health is through killing humans that are chained to walls.
A fair few of the commenters below talk about how uncomfortable they felt when being forced to resort to torture tactics in a game. I think that that is the point.
It's 2009. It's gone past the stage where games are merely a categorically fun experience. There are many other artistic avenues to be explored, and there is no reason why playing a game shouldn't make you intensely uncomfortable in certain circumstances.
If a game puts me in the shoes of a torturer, and makes an intelligent point whilst doing so, then I am all for it. If it throws in gratuitous torture scenes for no reason, that's a different matter.
@dd528: Except that when you suggest intelligence in a violent video game, it's pretty much a contradiction. Manhunt and Mad World both rely on gratuitous violence, but neither is remotely what I would call intelligent.
The main problem I see is that in video games, like 24, torture is shown to work. And not just work, but work immediatly. The victims arre always guilty and they always give the 'hero' the info they needed. If you read into the subject it is very clear that torture hardly ever helps you gain any useful information. Victims are willing to say anything to make it stop so it is almost impossible to tell when they are lying. There was a very interesting book written by an interigator in Iraq who went into detail about how non-violent interogations are a hundred times more useful than torture. Games and Hollywood always seem to skip over this fact.
The problem with torture, and indeed any extreme act, whether it be physical violence or hurtful language, in entertainment media is that it is very infrequently an organic, natural progression of character and is mostly just used for shock value.
The use of torture in Brink seems to be like this. "Surprise, we're deeper and more thoughtful than you expected!" Nah. Just a cheap move.
11/10/09
Call out the opinion police! I can't believe someone wouldn't like a game that someone else does! Inconceivable! #killzone2
11/10/09
11/10/09
Of course he "said" the game was bad, since he didn't like it. Duh.
Ah, the lost art of semantics. #killzone2
11/10/09
11/10/09
If you didn't play it because you didn't thing it was good, do not comment. If you played it and consider it to be a not so great game, especially when it comes to multiplayer, you must be one of these players that are only satisfied with perfection, and that is a game every 5 years or so.
Or, there's also the chance of classic xbox fanboy-ism (which sadly still exists) and you just hate it and like to bash it. #killzone2
11/10/09
My biggest problems with KZ2 multi was the "weight" aspect overall. I can understand if my character is carrying a huge machine gun that results in him turning really sloooooooooow. But it was the same carrying a pistol. These are soldiers? Why can't they whip and turn quickly when only carrying a pistol? High Precision basically put a band-aid on the problem. It's better with high precision but that took a control mechanic that was "terrible" and upgraded it to "bad".
It's a shame. I really like the recoil aspect to the weapons, the sound efx are top notch, custom soundtrack support is gravy but as I've said in the past, Sony made the PS3 with native mouse and keyboard support and developers just refuse to use it. As a result, controls will always be a problem in some way form or function with FPS games.(on a side note, Bioshock has no multiplayer what-so-ever and we STILL couldn't get m/kb support on the PS3 version. it's a disgrace) Even with auto aim KZ2 gets frustrating when you have an enemy in your sights and just can't get the damn crosshairs where they need to be fast enough for the kill. Too many times it's luck and not skill if you do get the kill. #killzone2
11/10/09
Not to bust your balls or anything, but i think it also has a bit to do with skill. I mean i'm deffinately not telling you you can't play or anything, but honestly for me, at the beginning, it sucked as well, then, after ranking up a bit while playing multi, i got really used to it. Then they made that precision option and it's even better. For me, right now, with the precision option on, it's probably the best and most realistic aiming out there. Also, i don't know if it's only me, but don't you guys (who play kz2) feel that the game offers the most satisfying kills ever? I mean the way it feels in the game when you kill an enemy, the animation and all, it just feels so realistic, as if you're actually in a war and killed a live enemy, not a bot or anything (both multi and single player).
As far as the maps go, you are right that SOME maps are not so good as others. (btw i just downloaded the latest map pack yesterday and i literally DID NOT FIND a single game with them on, however i found thousands with the other maps, do they suck or something or why doesn't anyone play on them?)
HOWEVER, i don't know if any of you guys remember, but a week or so BEFORE the game originally came out, there was an interview with the guerrilla guys (don't remember if it was gamespot, GT or here) where they said that their plans regarding the multi player in the future, besides some map packs they will be delivering shortly, will be vehicles and such. I can also put my money where my mouth is that the guerrilla guys are currently working on a new map pack, with much larger maps and vehicles, as they originally intended. I feel like that's the only thing missing from the game and will make it's multiplayer deffinately on level if not over the best multiplayer games out there. #killzone2
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
That or the plot xD #killzone2
11/10/09
11/10/09
I too have been consistently underwhelmed by the Killzone franchise with each game I played. I bought the original because it was described as a Halo killer. It was one of the worst FPS games I bought for the generation. Then I borrowed a PSP and Killzone: Liberation from a friend. Slightly better, but still mediocre.
By the time Killzone 2 was out, I had no real desire to try the game. I still don't. The shitty time I've had with the previous two games and the fact that the Helghast seem ripped straight off of the Protect Gear from the Kerberos series makes me avoid it like the plague.
For anyone interested, the picture tied to this post is a Protect Gear. [/rant]
On-topic, I will probably give this soundtrack a listen as I luuuuuurve me some video game music. #killzone2
11/10/09
Aside from that, the Helghast are obviously in British Robot Nazi attire! #killzone2
11/10/09
Also... OMG AN ARTICLE ABOUT A FPS THAT ISN'T MODERN WARFARE 2!!!
11/10/09
09/11/09
They actually dock points from you if you kill the suspect after you interrogate/torture them...
WTF?
If anything you should be getting bonuses for burning people alive and decapitating them with windows!
09/11/09
09/11/09
I'd even go as far as to say that Jack Thompson's "murder simulators" accusation holds a little bit credence because playing tons of violent games will desensitize you to violence, and if the flow of a game regularly goes to torturing to get what you want, it will at least come to mind in such a situation in real life... his big failing is assuming that people will then go emulate it - that's a personal moral decision that's separate from inflicting it on avatars and NPCs, and the responsibility is entirely that of the person doing it.
Also... in Punisher you can CHROME A GUY'S HEAD... that doesn't even work in reality - it's cartoon torture and in my opinion, hilariously over the top. I think the presentation makes a big difference about what is disturbing or unacceptable.
09/11/09
2nd, "..accusation holds a little bit credence because playing tons of violent games will desensitize you to violence"
It does, but only to more fake videogame/movie violence.
The real thing is to much for most people that try to act "internet hardcore."
Which is part of why I won't work in hospitals anymore...the real thing sticks with you...
09/11/09
09/11/09
Force Unleashed (may God curse its name forever more), is a good example. I had great fun hovering stormtroopers over great chasms whilst they writhed in my force grip, only to zap them with lightning, flip them high into the air, and watch them plummet to their doom.
Prototype, as well. I'm not as bloodthirsty in it as my flatmate (quite disturbing from a guy who's generally quite peaceful and is also vegetarian), and in fact I usually do my best to avoid civilian casualties, but there's something perversely amusing about grabbing a bystander and running up every tall building you can whilst they writhe deseperately in your grip, before flinging them off into the distance.
...Then again, maybe I have issues. But, on a serious note, would anyone else consider these actions to be torture? Really, they are. The player is causing lengthy stress and pain to the characters. Is that 'okay', whereas doing it in a scripted scene or event isn't? Or would those decrying these torture scenes never do such a thing in a video game?
09/11/09
09/11/09
It's 2009. It's gone past the stage where games are merely a categorically fun experience. There are many other artistic avenues to be explored, and there is no reason why playing a game shouldn't make you intensely uncomfortable in certain circumstances.
If a game puts me in the shoes of a torturer, and makes an intelligent point whilst doing so, then I am all for it. If it throws in gratuitous torture scenes for no reason, that's a different matter.
09/11/09
09/11/09
09/11/09
Hence we have extraordinary rendition, and men like the Birmingham Six can spend 16 years of their lives in prison for crimes they didn't commit.
09/10/09
The use of torture in Brink seems to be like this. "Surprise, we're deeper and more thoughtful than you expected!" Nah. Just a cheap move.
We'll see how the full game handles it.