I can't help but think a lot of recent DLC is a bit backwards. Granted, level packs are DEFINITELY above player skins (LittleBigPlanet, much as I love the art of the skin pack, really needs more official content to use it on. Nothing against the phenominal community stuff, but the MM levels are phenominal, excellent levels the likes of which I haven't seen in a while), and the terrifyingly terrible stuff that The Godfather 2 had (The best (gameplaywise) minion, and the best weapons. Great!). I don't QUITE disagree with "unlock this thing that you can get by playing the damn game" DLC in a way, but certainly, I feel they should just make cheats for that. - It's a bit unfortunate how cheats have faded into nihility to allow those to exist in their place.
Regardless, the bolt gun and flamethrower... I wonder if they're ONLY in these maps, or if you're paying to use them everywhere as a part of the class system. If it's the latter, I'm a little annoyed, and don't feel it's a good direction to take. Granted, not unprecidented, and not nearly as appalling as some examples, but certainly a step backwards. I remember back in the day when multiplayer maps tended to be included with free patches. - Games like Outlaws, for instance, and the Unreal Tournament series has ALWAYS been good for that, even now with the recent level pack and massive update it got, much akin to the ECE pack UT2004 got.
There are good sized and well produced expansions still - The Lost And Damned (which, bravo to Rockstar for making a srtandalone pack of the exclusive DLC for those of us who prefer the PS3), and, Horse Armor aside, most of the stuff Bethesda has put out for their flagship RPGs, have been excellent. I just wonder if we'll be slowly moving towards those examples, or if maps, missions n' other stuff will continue to thrive. At the very least, steady progress is being made - While The Godfather 2's DLC is bullshit, it's not nearly as much as the first game, which included such gems as ingame money.
Only time will tell, it seems.
As a mild aside, if this seems really off topic, it's mostly because my original post got eaten, and I ended up trying to retread, and I had gotten a bit sidetracked on the DLC rant in the original post. And apologies for the stupid length, I didn't intend for it to get this long.
@reality.exe.torrent: Back in those days, the cost to produce games was much cheaper. Any game that was a million seller not only broke even but also made the publisher serious coinage.
Nowadays, as you begin to make the game you have to factor in DLC content as a potential revenue source. Once you do that, you are given a bit more money by the publisher to make your game, and in turn, you put more into your game and spend more time on it.
Epic can afford to give DLC free nowadays (well, unless MS published their title as in the case of the Gears of War series) because they created their own engine and sell that to recoup development costs. Games like Gears of War cost them only $10 million to make, and I'd wager UT3 cost a similar amount.
But games like Halo 3 and Killzone 2 must have had spectacular budgets, and DLC was kept in mind throughout development to help the publishers get the most out of their investment.
DLC can be done right, and done wrong. I don't think any blanket judgment could be applied to all DLC. There are some games that I wish had more DLC...games like Wip3out: HD.
@nrXic: Wipeout DLC will be coming soon though, and just like you I'll be all over that. I need new tracks and ships in the worst way. And as I recently "Platinumed" UT3, you can bet I also want some new DLC for that. It's really getting boring now. If Epic is not going to make a new engine this gen, then I don't know what's keeping them from unleashing insane amounts of maps and skins for UT3. New modes too maybe? At least the 2 packs they had so far were free and excellent. The Titan pack was the shit. It's really the perfect DLC package for me. Free and massive.
@Kaneda: I dunno, it seems how they always do it is make one godly free update, and then move on. The one exception being UT2K3 which they kinda just dumped once UT2K4 came out. I kinda doubt (but I'd LOVE to see) they'll come out with another UT3 update. Course, since UT3 does support mods.
It would be nice if they made the Titan Pack for 360 though, make it so all versions are even as far as Epic content goes. As it stands, it seems anyone who got the 360 version is kinda screwed with not only less official content, but no unofficial content as well.
@reality.exe.torrent: True. They really should Titan Pack the 360 version. Did they even get the Classic Map pack? But let's not forget that the 360 has Gears. I think it's great for the 360 people, but I find it very sad that Epic seems to have totally forgotten their UT fanbase since their Gears success.
@Rinaldus: but if GG really wanted to give us the power to choose then where is the damn mouse and keyboard support? Or why wasn't this option in the game at launch. This might be a case of too little too late. inFamous has my time now and if the Conduit's online mode delivers on the promise of superior controls and fun gameplay and this Kz2 patch is more rhetoric that doesn't deliver, then to hell with Killzone2, it's going back to gamestop, banned from my apartment just like Resistance2.
For that matter, why can't developers give us the option to use m/kb in a FPS game that doesn't even have multiplayer...like Bioshock.
I bought the game on day one, and still haven't finished the campaign. I go back to it now and again, but every single time, I give up from frustration by the controls.
"Weight" is one thing, having a deadzone that takes up almost the entire right stick is quite another. If you push the stick to an edge, your view won't move until a fraction of a second after it's hit that edge, as in, won't move AT ALL until then. Adjusting sensitivity in the options does nothing for this, all that does is make the view move faster once it starts.
There are better ways to add a sense of weight. Don't kid yourself, Killzone 2's aiming was just plain clunky and unresponsive.
A gun should not be easy to control, but unless you're looking at the game through Fanboy-Vision Goggles, it's pretty evident that it's not "realistic", it's just plain frustrating.
I'm sorry and apologize to anyone that is offended by what I am about to say. What kind of losers play games these days anyway? I played Killzone 2 from beginning to end and once I got used to the controls it was a snap to play.But the whiny people that play games these days.All I hear is "The game is too long", ", "the gun reloads too slow", "the sky is too blue", the character's face is too shiny", the character walks too slow", the controller is too black", he buttons are too red", "the cutscenes are too long". In the name of all that is good stop whining.
When I played the Demo for Infamous, I had a few problems sticking to things I didn't want to stick to but I adapted and it worked just fine, just like I did with Sly Cooper.And what makes it worse is that these same people claim Gears of War is a perfect game but ignore the fact that game was tedious,no innovation, crappy story and dialogue with characters who ran and moved like they had sticks up their asses.Sorry for the rant but this trend of whiny gamers is getting on my nerves
@GoddardHalomitosis: I think people are entitled to be unsatisfied with games they pay $60 for. Not to mention that most of the "examples" you gave of complaints were clearly ridiculous, and not at all the kind of actual complaints you usually see.
Mhm. The argument seems to be "I paid $60 for the game, therefore it should've been a harrowing life- changing religious experience, and make me popular with the girls. And the only way I'm going to be happy now is if you ruin the experience for everyone else as well, because I can't stand to hear about other people who like the game when I don't".
Funny thing. When I was little, I just didn't play with people like that. And now I apparently have to anyway. It's like.. inverse karma, or something.
@GoddardHalomitosis: I finished Killzone2 and got Platinum. I got used to the controls enough to complete the game. I still think the analog controls suck donkey nuts.
@Bii Nii Wii Nii Politely Replaces You're Your with Your You're: Agreed. I couldn't have said it better myself. These developers are delusional if they think expectations aren't going to be through the roof with the prices for consoles and games and accessories being what they are.
With that being said, what is it in this generation that developers seem to have forgotten what "options" means? I agree that someone in Q&A had to say "these controls suck" so why not give the option to not have the weighty, drag ass, effect before the game hit retail?
I don't like the 'weight' of the guns. For me it seems a little too unrealistic. I can understand a little with the assault rifles and bigger guns, but not a small smg. With an smg it should be as if your carrying the weight of a small cat or something. I know when i'm holding my cat I don't slow down.
Even an assault rifle shouldn't weigh too much and hinder you that much. An M4 only weighs about 10 lbs, so I don't know why these soldiers are slowed down so much by them. Plus, in the future, shouldn't guns and stuff get lighter, and not bigger and heavier?
@DeadlyWhispers: that's what some of these people aren't getting. GG used the excuse of these soldiers being weighted down by their packs and weapons but it's bullshit. Like I mentioned before, why can't I turn fast when I'm wielding a pistol...even as a SNIPER? Since when is a sniper carrying a heavy load when the point is to be fast and stealthy, that is unless you have some crazy caliber rifle.
It seems that too many ps3 developers just can't seem to get the basic things right when they need it most.
It's cool they're trying to please everyone but the people who bitched about it in the first place are morons to begin with. Killzone 2's control feels like you're actually controlling a dude running around with a gun as opposed to every other FPS on the market that feels like you're controlling a floating gun. God forbid a game refuse to conform to every other game on the market.
I'm just saying I think it's really ignorant to say "This game isn't conforming to the conventions set forth by every other shooter on the market therefor it's broken."
This has nothing to do with people not agreeing with me. If you don't like the games controls don't play it. But there's no sense to bitch about a game that tries to take a different approach to something just because you want it to handle like every other game on the market.
So yes, I say those people are morons. Not because they don't they don't agree with me but because their reasons for not liking the games controls are ignorant.
Geez Luke, could you at least do some degree of research before you make with the condescending comments?
The pre-patch controller sensitivity settings had no effect on the size of the deadzone of the Right analog stick... which was way too big before this patch.
So yeah, fixing the problem with the pre-patch controller sensitivity settings IS too hard for some people... because it has no effect whatsoever.
@Ramistat: agreed. Luke must not have played Killzone 2 or any FPS for that matter.
I finished Killzone2 and the heavy weighted feel of the controls could get used to but that's the goddamn problem, why should we have to get used to a bad design choice? GG is still trying to hold on to this bullshit logic that the heavy feel of the controls is a great idea. It's not. All it does is show how desperately they tried to make dual analog controls work in a FPS and failed by making the controls worse in too many firefight situations. I tried to support it, but it's a practice in frustration.
If I'm a soldier, there's no excuse as to why I'm turning so slow that it feels like even my pistol, (PISTOL!)weights 80lbs. Give me a break. If a enemy is strafing me, why can't I turn fast enough to shoot them with smaller weapons? I don't care how much gear these meatheads are supposed to be wearing. It's nonsense that quicker turns can't be made with smaller weapons, especially when on the higher difficulty settings the AI seems to turn faster than we ever could and shoot with accuracy we'll never have. Adjusting the sensitivity didn't help at all because even the highest settings don't allow you to turn as fast as you think you should.
Face it. GG blew it. I love the recoil of the weapons when they're fired. That's awesome but all they did was take the flaws of dual analog controls and made them far worse.
If this patch actually addresses the issue, then I'll go back to killzone2...maybe, but after playing UT3's Titan pack, I'm harshly reminded of why FPS developers on PS3 not called Epic, suck.
@Striderhayasa - Can we get some damn m/kb support?!: Damn dude, get over yourself already friend. GG didn't blow shit just because you didn't like that it didn't have mouse and keyboard controls. Fact is, I and many of my friends like that KZ2 has that learning curve because we were bored of Halo anyway.
I guess those falling sales figures lit a fire under GG. Big change from back in March when the official stance was "After carefully looking into this, reading the posts, talking to a lot of you directly and analysing the controls at GG we have come to the conclusion that there are no changes required to the system."
Well, except what they actually did was.. change the aiming quite a bit. Which exacerbated several game- balance issues, made it very effective to run around and fire on full auto, and all but ruined the feel of the original control scheme and the pacing it encouraged. All to please a bunch of morons who generally couldn't spell, string a coherent sentence together, and condemned GG as a "shitty little developer" - before they went back to play COD4 without trying to actually play KZ2 first. Apparently in an effort to generate positive and incoherent press- coverage on N4G.
GG's only response should've been: we're doing it the way we want, it is brilliant, shut up.
But instead they foolishly started to give their "fans" a few concessions, which of course will never be enough. And now we're getting twitch- controls, while GG is denying they've ever changed the scheme very much at all. Really, isn't corporate bullshit just the best thing there is? Oh, I know - what's better is that people actually want things to be this way: make every game the same way, because if it sells, then that's proof it's the best thing ever made, and no one would ever want anything different!
Since i don't play ANY fps i will quote my friend on this one..
"I don't know why people complain about the aiming and movement in this game your are not suppose to turn on a dime or shoot over 9000 bullets with little to no recoil messing with your aim.People just need to STFU and play the DAMN game"
@Curse_Lily: Tell your friend that he needs to know that Killzone 2's control layout is pretty unique from the rest of the ragtag FPS' out there. I know quite a few people who did play it and for those that bitch and consistently whine are those who want another FPS that plays the same as the rest. I agree wholeheartedly about STFU though.
@Curse_Lily: Your friend doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about. Imagine taking a racing game and instead of having a standard steering mechanic, the developer changes the mechanic so your car never turns like it should. It always turns slower than you expect it to and adjustments just make the car harder to control. Killzone 2 supports a CoD4 control layout so take that for what it's worth but the actual dual analog controls should not be so bad that gamers are expected to "get used to them." Dual analog is bad enough as is for FPS games, why make them worse? It's a retarded design decision and I can see a lot of people not playing KZ2 because of it. There certainly are a lot of them on the used rack at my local gamestop.
Keep the recoil for the weapons, change that dumbass weighty feel when trying to turn and look up and down.
07/11/09
07/10/09
It's just like in Bambi: If you don't have anything nice to say, just give us the title and release date.
At least that's how I remember the movie....
07/10/09
Regardless, the bolt gun and flamethrower... I wonder if they're ONLY in these maps, or if you're paying to use them everywhere as a part of the class system. If it's the latter, I'm a little annoyed, and don't feel it's a good direction to take. Granted, not unprecidented, and not nearly as appalling as some examples, but certainly a step backwards. I remember back in the day when multiplayer maps tended to be included with free patches. - Games like Outlaws, for instance, and the Unreal Tournament series has ALWAYS been good for that, even now with the recent level pack and massive update it got, much akin to the ECE pack UT2004 got.
There are good sized and well produced expansions still - The Lost And Damned (which, bravo to Rockstar for making a srtandalone pack of the exclusive DLC for those of us who prefer the PS3), and, Horse Armor aside, most of the stuff Bethesda has put out for their flagship RPGs, have been excellent. I just wonder if we'll be slowly moving towards those examples, or if maps, missions n' other stuff will continue to thrive. At the very least, steady progress is being made - While The Godfather 2's DLC is bullshit, it's not nearly as much as the first game, which included such gems as ingame money.
Only time will tell, it seems.
As a mild aside, if this seems really off topic, it's mostly because my original post got eaten, and I ended up trying to retread, and I had gotten a bit sidetracked on the DLC rant in the original post. And apologies for the stupid length, I didn't intend for it to get this long.
07/11/09
Nowadays, as you begin to make the game you have to factor in DLC content as a potential revenue source. Once you do that, you are given a bit more money by the publisher to make your game, and in turn, you put more into your game and spend more time on it.
Epic can afford to give DLC free nowadays (well, unless MS published their title as in the case of the Gears of War series) because they created their own engine and sell that to recoup development costs. Games like Gears of War cost them only $10 million to make, and I'd wager UT3 cost a similar amount.
But games like Halo 3 and Killzone 2 must have had spectacular budgets, and DLC was kept in mind throughout development to help the publishers get the most out of their investment.
DLC can be done right, and done wrong. I don't think any blanket judgment could be applied to all DLC. There are some games that I wish had more DLC...games like Wip3out: HD.
07/11/09
07/11/09
It would be nice if they made the Titan Pack for 360 though, make it so all versions are even as far as Epic content goes. As it stands, it seems anyone who got the 360 version is kinda screwed with not only less official content, but no unofficial content as well.
07/13/09
07/10/09
07/10/09
07/10/09
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/27/09
05/27/09
For that matter, why can't developers give us the option to use m/kb in a FPS game that doesn't even have multiplayer...like Bioshock.
05/27/09
"Weight" is one thing, having a deadzone that takes up almost the entire right stick is quite another. If you push the stick to an edge, your view won't move until a fraction of a second after it's hit that edge, as in, won't move AT ALL until then. Adjusting sensitivity in the options does nothing for this, all that does is make the view move faster once it starts.
There are better ways to add a sense of weight. Don't kid yourself, Killzone 2's aiming was just plain clunky and unresponsive.
A gun should not be easy to control, but unless you're looking at the game through Fanboy-Vision Goggles, it's pretty evident that it's not "realistic", it's just plain frustrating.
05/27/09
When I played the Demo for Infamous, I had a few problems sticking to things I didn't want to stick to but I adapted and it worked just fine, just like I did with Sly Cooper.And what makes it worse is that these same people claim Gears of War is a perfect game but ignore the fact that game was tedious,no innovation, crappy story and dialogue with characters who ran and moved like they had sticks up their asses.Sorry for the rant but this trend of whiny gamers is getting on my nerves
05/27/09
05/27/09
Mhm. The argument seems to be "I paid $60 for the game, therefore it should've been a harrowing life- changing religious experience, and make me popular with the girls. And the only way I'm going to be happy now is if you ruin the experience for everyone else as well, because I can't stand to hear about other people who like the game when I don't".
Funny thing. When I was little, I just didn't play with people like that. And now I apparently have to anyway. It's like.. inverse karma, or something.
05/27/09
@Bii Nii Wii Nii Politely Replaces You're Your with Your You're: Agreed. I couldn't have said it better myself. These developers are delusional if they think expectations aren't going to be through the roof with the prices for consoles and games and accessories being what they are.
With that being said, what is it in this generation that developers seem to have forgotten what "options" means? I agree that someone in Q&A had to say "these controls suck" so why not give the option to not have the weighty, drag ass, effect before the game hit retail?
05/27/09
Even an assault rifle shouldn't weigh too much and hinder you that much. An M4 only weighs about 10 lbs, so I don't know why these soldiers are slowed down so much by them. Plus, in the future, shouldn't guns and stuff get lighter, and not bigger and heavier?
05/27/09
It seems that too many ps3 developers just can't seem to get the basic things right when they need it most.
05/27/09
05/27/09
Don't you think that's a little arrogant?
05/27/09
I'm just saying I think it's really ignorant to say "This game isn't conforming to the conventions set forth by every other shooter on the market therefor it's broken."
This has nothing to do with people not agreeing with me. If you don't like the games controls don't play it. But there's no sense to bitch about a game that tries to take a different approach to something just because you want it to handle like every other game on the market.
So yes, I say those people are morons. Not because they don't they don't agree with me but because their reasons for not liking the games controls are ignorant.
05/27/09
There. See. All better now.
05/27/09
The pre-patch controller sensitivity settings had no effect on the size of the deadzone of the Right analog stick... which was way too big before this patch.
So yeah, fixing the problem with the pre-patch controller sensitivity settings IS too hard for some people... because it has no effect whatsoever.
05/27/09
I finished Killzone2 and the heavy weighted feel of the controls could get used to but that's the goddamn problem, why should we have to get used to a bad design choice? GG is still trying to hold on to this bullshit logic that the heavy feel of the controls is a great idea. It's not. All it does is show how desperately they tried to make dual analog controls work in a FPS and failed by making the controls worse in too many firefight situations. I tried to support it, but it's a practice in frustration.
If I'm a soldier, there's no excuse as to why I'm turning so slow that it feels like even my pistol, (PISTOL!)weights 80lbs. Give me a break. If a enemy is strafing me, why can't I turn fast enough to shoot them with smaller weapons? I don't care how much gear these meatheads are supposed to be wearing. It's nonsense that quicker turns can't be made with smaller weapons, especially when on the higher difficulty settings the AI seems to turn faster than we ever could and shoot with accuracy we'll never have. Adjusting the sensitivity didn't help at all because even the highest settings don't allow you to turn as fast as you think you should.
Face it. GG blew it. I love the recoil of the weapons when they're fired. That's awesome but all they did was take the flaws of dual analog controls and made them far worse.
If this patch actually addresses the issue, then I'll go back to killzone2...maybe, but after playing UT3's Titan pack, I'm harshly reminded of why FPS developers on PS3 not called Epic, suck.
lack
of
mouse
and
keyboard
support
05/28/09
05/27/09
05/27/09
Well, except what they actually did was.. change the aiming quite a bit. Which exacerbated several game- balance issues, made it very effective to run around and fire on full auto, and all but ruined the feel of the original control scheme and the pacing it encouraged. All to please a bunch of morons who generally couldn't spell, string a coherent sentence together, and condemned GG as a "shitty little developer" - before they went back to play COD4 without trying to actually play KZ2 first. Apparently in an effort to generate positive and incoherent press- coverage on N4G.
GG's only response should've been: we're doing it the way we want, it is brilliant, shut up.
But instead they foolishly started to give their "fans" a few concessions, which of course will never be enough. And now we're getting twitch- controls, while GG is denying they've ever changed the scheme very much at all. Really, isn't corporate bullshit just the best thing there is? Oh, I know - what's better is that people actually want things to be this way: make every game the same way, because if it sells, then that's proof it's the best thing ever made, and no one would ever want anything different!
Bastards.. allbastards.
05/27/09
"I don't know why people complain about the aiming and movement in this game your are not suppose to turn on a dime or shoot over 9000 bullets with little to no recoil messing with your aim.People just need to STFU and play the DAMN game"
05/27/09
05/27/09
He just doesn't get why people wants,expect for every game to play in same way.
05/27/09
05/27/09
05/27/09
Keep the recoil for the weapons, change that dumbass weighty feel when trying to turn and look up and down.
05/27/09