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Denver, 1:01 AM
Fri Nov 27
28 posts in the last 24 hours
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09/27/09
09/27/09
Also, with games like Assassin's Creed, GTAIV, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, Fallout3 etc. being some of the highest selling games in the U.S., I think your argument that Americans don't like a good story is null. It's also quite insulting, and implying that we're stupid. Square Enix originally didn't bring the Final Fantasy series to the U.S. because they didn't think we'd like a story-based game that wasn't action. I guess we proved them wrong, huh?
You wanna talk about U.S. gamers liking violent games with no story? Japan loves the Basura series, and Dynasty warriors (both mindless hack-and-slashers). Oh, should I also mention that some anime/manga from japan has probably way more explicit violence than any U.S.-made video game?
As for violence, it is in games from both countries, though I'll admit in the U.S., the games are bloodier than the ones made in Japan. On the other hand, Japan has tons of sex-simulation games. We're just two different countries.
The reason we like games that "keep movin all the screen..." is because our players have become advanced at action games. I could say that Japanese gamers play those crazy DDR/DJ games. What are those? They are simply action games that are based on music. They are about timing, memorization, and reaction. DDR/DJ games "keep movin all the screen..." too.
Please, take your ethnocentric/racist/ignorant opinions elsewhere.
I deserve a star.
09/26/09
Also a disclaimer: there are many boring Western games and innovative Japanese games, I'm just referring to the general trend.
09/26/09
Street Fighter IV
Resident Evil series
Final Fantasy series
The Legend of Zelda series
Super Mario series
No More Heroes
Soul Calibur series
Punch-Out!!
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Metal Gear Solid series
Castlevania series
There are also a lot more games I haven't listed here. But, I would agree... these days... I'm looking forward to mainly games that are being developed in the west. Although, I still am looking forward to around 11 games from eastern developers that aren't finished or are haven't seen a US release yet.
09/27/09
Now, I like some of those series that you listed, but you cannot deny that many of those franchises have shown little change for many years. They cling to old tropes and game design choices of yesteryear, which have been outdated by new designs made here in the west.
Some companies have been trying harder to make new IPs, like SE, and I applaud them for that... but too many companies over there aren't even bothering. The biggest offender being Nintendo. The key reason I didn't buy a Wii is because Nintendo literally hasn't done anything new for years.
The japanese industry needs to push past their reliance on franchises, start innovating again and take some risks.
09/27/09
09/27/09
And, just avoiding a console because all they pump out are sequels isn't a good reason. As long as a game is great fun, it doesn't really need to be innovative. Innovation is nice to have though.
09/26/09
1. Shooters (not first-person)
2. IIDX
3. Japanese RPGs
4. Fighting games
5. Eroge
all of which are traditionally Japanese-made games, the fact that I even think twice about western made games these days speaks for itself.
09/26/09
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Quite a disparity in terms of perception from these different parties. Interesting stuff to think about.
09/26/09
09/26/09
There's an enormous deluge of software from the West and because of all the extra money Western developers have to throw into marketing, tons of not especially good games end up overshadowing a TON of games from companies that can't afford that treatment.
It's actually weird. It's sort of an opposite day 80s Gaming Crash. Instead of hundreds of knock-offs made super quick and cheap, we're getting hundreds of knock-offs made as big as possible as quickly as they can. All the same, it's becoming harder to pick out that more interesting gem from the flood.
09/26/09
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09/26/09
@Ueziel: I don’t believe the trend of doing patch jobs after releasing rushed games is purely a western habit. The degree of laziness in producing titles has become universal lately. Granted, it’s more prominent in western titles, but there are quite a few Japanese games that I’ve played on the 360 and PS3 that needed to be patched up for ridiculous things like glitches and online connection problems. Almost every developer around the world has become too dependent on the convenience of patching this generation.
On your second point, while what you said is true for many cases, but how is that anything different with any developer, regardless of country? How many times has Square-Enix, Capcom, and Sega thrown a ton of cash at developing and marketing mediocre entries in their flagship franchises, while companies like Nippon-Ichi, Atlus, and Grasshopper are barely able to garner attention? All the big name companies rely on past success and quick tie-in’s of their well-known franchises to make money off consumers while choking innovation and flooding store shelves with half-assed products. It’s a bit unfair to call out western developers when we have three new Final Fantasy and two new Mega Man titles currently released.
09/26/09
Exactly, VC was a niche of a niche game, but SEGA has made efforts to make it into a franchise and with the word of mouth from gamers, VC picked up in sales. Not every game is able to bust a million in a month or year some never at all. But VC has legs...
That will help it in the long run.
09/29/09
09/26/09
The more great games you release the more of those great games you can sell. More sales keep gamers interested in the medium and keep them coming back for more.
The key for Japan, is finding how to make games quicker without sacrificing quality. Many Western developers have found how to make that happen, it's time Japan does as well. This is not about choosing between quality or quantity. It is about delivering both. The industry need great games and it needs lots of them to stay healthy.
09/26/09
09/26/09
09/26/09
The West is expecting every developer under the sun to follow their own developers in every possible way from budget to marketing and it doesn't work that and it can't.
09/26/09
Plus, you should keep in mind that there is certainly no shortage of games out in Japan, and Inafune’s comment appears to be more about the quality of games rather than the quantity or speed of delivery.
09/26/09
Try to make an entire post that expresses your opinion while in a civil and respectful manner...especially to those who disagree with you.
09/26/09
09/26/09
The last real Final Fantasy game came out 3 years ago this Halloween (in 2006) and was in production since before X was even released. It took them a sequel to X and 5 years to finally get XII out and I'm pretty sure the next one was in development for even longer. But they sure are good at bring out a lot of stuff for the PSP...
SquareEnix worries WAY to much about whatever one thinks of their work because they're still sitting under the shadow of the near bankruptcy that happened about 20+ years ago (and the failed big theater released Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within), like people won't buy any thing they'll make any way. They worry far to much about if western audiences will even be able to play their games through, let alone understand them.. But here they are using up money year after year while not producing much of any thing to profit off of. Then they wonder why they have a problem.
Sure we (and they) want the quality we know they can produce but stop shoveling this line that you can't bring something out because we may not get it or be able to finish it, as if our brains are smaller then yours. Quit giving us this "we have to innovate EVERY time" and just give us a story we want to play.
Some people say Western game companies need to slow down, and I think in a lot of cases (shovelware) they're right, but SquareEnix is one example of a Japanese Company that needs to speed up its efforts if it wants to survive.
09/26/09
Once they merged they seemed to lose much of their focus on their core releases.
09/26/09
Also, what you just said is a response people typically have when they have no ability to argue back.
09/26/09
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09/26/09
THIS, and seemingly the same footage last year, this year....
09/26/09
What about Guitar Hero? That's not overrated at all!
09/26/09
Death to the blatant copy Rock Band!
09/26/09
Here here! And what about Madden? That game is so niche! I mean, who plays that game?
09/26/09
And you know, yesterday I heard about this platformer, what was it called Mur, Morio or something like that.
Apparently it's about this blue-collar worker and his addiction to drugs?
Never played.
09/26/09
09/26/09
09/26/09
Much less that earlier games in the series pioneered a lot of standards in the JRPG-genre.
09/26/09
The old heads are still manning the helm for video games over there, the younger and new talent need to be let in.
The heavy hitting veterans such as Kojima and Inafune as well as others need to take a small step back at let the Sudas and Uedas in. But because tried and true franchises continue to sell, the old heads just want to keep making them. Much like Actibliz only want GH games and WoW games.
The difference between what Actibliz does and the Japanese market is doing is GLOBAL.
Japan-in referencing SE because I hate them at the moment, was content in simply niching it up. They were the kings for 20+ years of top selling games so they stopped trying, they stopped innovating.
Western/Europeans kept going, they kept working to improve and although it might have came to a point where many of us MIGHT not like it to be...they're doing ALOT more then what Japan has done so far.
That's not to say that we don't need the vets anymore nor do I think that it's dead, I simply see that the movement has shifted from Japan to the West. For nearly 30 years Japan has had the creative strings and maybe it's been that way and we were too damn young or blinded by Japan's quirkiness to see it. But clearly what has been working isn't working anymore.
DQ sells 4 million in JP, it'll do squat overseas..
It's no longer about the home turf anymore.
Does that mean games have to become more mainstream? Does that means we have to turn away from Japan and start looking to the West and European fronts? No, but it does mean that Japan is going to have to TRY harder now. Pretty sparkly graphics and Lolis will work for JP but not for this gen...
Final Fantasy XIII will sell but it will NOT make GTA money.
And that's the gospel truth.
09/26/09
09/26/09
09/26/09
Scribblenaunts is a game that lived on hype, it's not perfect but then what game is....it's a cute and infectious game that many enjoy and over time with love and care...they can develop better. I say this because I haven't played the game to judge it harsh but this is from what I've seen on Kotaku so far.
And I agree about Capcom, most of the games in our library are Japanese games, not because they're Japanese but because they're GOOD games...we just happened to have played ALOT of good Japanese games.
Capcom is the ONLY Japanese company that has figured out that staying uniquely 'Japanese' isn't the way to go anymore. They started making games to Western tastes and thus has expanded their brand then rather SE or Konami at this point. But those two other companies are picking it up now.
The weeaboo glasses that many of gamers have been wearing is starting to crack, we're getting tired of the Otaku notions and themes that were prevalent in many games up till now. And Japan has seemingly nodded and waved at the idea..
We want more and the media has been empathizing this 'copy and paste trend/belts and zippers androgyny hurhur..' begrudgingly over and over. And as much as I hate to agree with them at times....it's starting to look a little true.
Western games aren't free of the same 'bald space marine' mediocrity either, but I guess we're more tolerant because for every Halo-like shooter there's an Uncharted or Mirror's Edge...what has Japan done this gen to make them stand up and out?
I think that's what Inafune is taking about...then again I don't know.
09/26/09
Double THIS. Triple THIS.
09/26/09
@Rachel Fogg: Well now that western developers are seeing the press mock them about the bald space marine, your all starting to see them make their characters look like this guy. He's a white guy with brown hair that's slightly disorganized. and he's typically sporting a 5 o'clock shadow, and usually an American. He's been the star of many games, from Shadow Complex, to Uncharted, to Heavy Rain, he has a girlfriend, who has brown hair at medium to short length, and a secret that typically ends with the betrayal of the player. He usually enters the game reluctantly but doesn't seem to care after the 3rd level or so.
09/26/09
LOL! Exactly, they're no different then the spiky haired androgynous heroes that cluttered up JRPGs for some odd years.
I never said Western was superior to Japan but clearly Western developers ARE taking more risks then Japanese. It may not be what we would like to see...but that's the landscape now.
09/26/09
09/26/09
I think Demon Souls is pretty niche in itself, much like VC, it's a Japanese game with very Western roots but it's so far from what a JRPG is 'suppose' to be. It could succeed or fail because of that.
It's not necessarily about Japanese adopting Western game making, because that can be a mixed bag. Japan needs to find themselves again, if they can succeed in hybrids like DS then doing more or different ones they can make it.
But I don't know, I'm only expressing my thoughts on the matter...I'm not right nor are you wrong. We as gamers have seen the current trend change from all eyes on Japan to all eyes on Euro/West when there's more then enough room for them both.
But Japan has to make the effort to make themselves relevant again.
09/26/09
09/26/09
Sakaguchi left because he placed Square in the shitter after FF:TSW. Hard to follow a man that plunked down 128 million down on a CG movie, Square was saved by the success of FFX and KH but they were still 'merged' with their rivals Enix and shit hasn't been right since.
Kojima doesn't want to do MGS but he sure as hell doesn't seem to keep his fine ass from the meetings about his game. MG is his baby and Konami has given him all the free range he wants. If Kojima EVER left Konami, what does that company have left to bargain with?
Castlevania? Winning Eleven? yeah....
But Sakaguchi went on to Mistwalker which led to making LO (and hopefully LO2..) and Kojima has his production company. But still SE has the Final Fantasy name and Konami has MGS.
These two guys was and are the crux of their companies and the games that they make are MASSIVE, I'm not saying they should stop because that's not profitable for either of them. But Japanese companies are notorious for keeping in the old heads at the top and NOT allowing any new ideas or people in.
It's like if Nomura EVER left SE, SE wouldn't really crumble but they'll take a hit. He has his OWN MASSIVE following and since FFXIII is his last FF, for me, FF is dead after vXIII...if FFXII was any indication on future FFs...and I know I'm not the only one that feels it much like VII was some gamers last FF because Amano wasn't on it.
If SE want to keep Nomura and find his replacement, they'll have to give him his own studio but since he's dead set on KH, they have him for a while. Whoever's manning FFXV has ALOT to prove.
But see, there's the hope right there, at least SE will have to find someone in Nomura's absence. That's more then I can say with Kojima and MGS5.
09/26/09
09/26/09
I'm a little confused by your comment, gimme a sec...
Oh, okay, to you that might lack imagination but to people who never played a game before the Wii, it's simply wonderful.
But you're still right and the Wii has suffered for it, maybe not financially but the Ninty name has been taking hits.
There are small risks and there are HUGE risks but there's also medium risks, Japan does either SMALL or HUGE but never medium and as long as they play it either safe or full on reckless...they'll never get it together.
09/26/09
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09/26/09
And Onimusha, and VJ and.... yeah, for someone who thinks that the Japanese industry is finished, he's not pushing for anything that makes it stand out.
Western game clones (enjoyable or not) aren't the answer.
Rather funny though, considering that no show this year has impressed on any level. E3 stunk and so did the TGS.
09/26/09
And yeah, this year hasn't been good for the industry on ANY count. Nothing truly unique or interesting is coming. Everything I'm looking forward to is a sequel, which is just weird.
09/26/09
So true. Inafune was apparently up in arms when RE4 was revamped and thought of the final version a huge risk. It paid off, really well.
Had it been for him, the answer would've probably been giving it to a western developer or a celebrity guest protagonist.
09/27/09
09/26/09
i think what's changed is the mentality that Japanese developers need to make games for the western audience. i don't buy it.
Capcom has seen success in the west with new titles like dead rising and lost planet- but their biggest hits are still their tried and true classic franchises like devil may cry and resident evil and street fighter.
i think what those above listed games all have in common is that they are representative of what their respective developers do best: make great games that they love for an audience that will love them. not all of Capcom's western games have been successful. Bionic Commando was dead on arrival and Dark Void looks to be caught between 2 genres- with an untested new IP, and is likely going to be a cult hit, at best.
Microsoft really shook things up this gen- for better and worse. dividing the Japanese fanbase on the homefront- with exclusive releases from popular franchises going to the xbox- in an attempt to gain a foothold in Japanese homes (while at the same time providing an easier entryway into next-gen development) hurt the japanese industry by forcing the fans to either buy a machine they really didn't want- or (more often) turn to the portables which began to see a flood of half-assed drivel and an endless stream of re-issues of classic RPG's. as we can see- the plan hasn't really worked out for microsoft- and sony's overpriced console was certainly not helping the situation. as a result- we got a lot of JRPG's that were also made as an experiment to expand the genre into the western market- which judging by sales of Lost Odyssey, Tales of Vesperia, Star Ocean 4, and Last Remnant- hasn't worked out in the west, either.
i think the Japanese need to go back to what they have always done- making great games for their primary market. if the game is awesome- it will sell in Japan- and chances are: it will sell in the west also. Putting a flagship franchise exclusively on the Xbox is not leading the fanbase to rally around the xbox- it is making them resentful of the publishers. and in the west- where the xbox brand is stronger- they are seeing disinterest in these same titles. making these games for the wii doesn't appear to be pleasing the fans either- the gaming world has spoken: they have decided that the Wii is for Nintendo titles only- they want to see blockbuster titles return to the Playstation- and now that the system is finally affordable- we may see this happen. but it could be too late- and maybe Inafune is right. maybe the future of Japanese development is on the portables and we should just get used to the idea- but i hope he's wrong...
09/26/09
Street Fighter IV - remake.
BlazBlue - 2D, stale genre.
Punch Out! - remake.
Muramasa - more 2D.
Valkyria Chronicles - no complaints.
Demon's Souls - have you even played this?
Super Mario Galaxy - yay, more Mario.
Metal Gear Solid 4 - sequel.
Final Fantasy XIII - sequel, stale genre.
Last Guardian - thank god for Team Ico.
IMO, Last Guardian and Valkyria Chronicles are the only truly innovative titles on that list. Even GT5, king of all racing games, seems inferior to Forza 3. Sony's finding it hard to sell consoles, or drive sales through the PlayStation Network. PS2 games are selling as well or better than next gen PS3 titles.
I'd say Inafune is onto something.
09/26/09
If your looking at it from the standpoint that the Japanese game industry is on a downwards spiral because of sequels, remakes, or stale genre's, then you might want to play some western devleped games. Because theres a limitless supply of remakes(Madden), sequels (COD), and stale genre's (FPS).
Inafune should be worried about Capcom's evil deeds, Clover Studios, before he comments on how the Japanese Game Industry is doomed.
09/26/09
09/26/09
Whoa whoa...Capcom's evil deeds to Clover? Are you serious?
Clover made great games that DIDN'T SELL, what the hell do you think Capcom was suppose to do with that? They plunked down huge amounts of money on that studio to have little returns.
You don't keep a slightly torn gangrenous arm because you're fond of the nail polish.
09/26/09
Core games don't like that, but it's true. It's by the sheer credit of Capcom that Okami is even getting a 2nd chance at life on the DS.
09/26/09
Double true, all this butthurt from Clover fans over Capcom's mercy killing needs to stop.
At least you guys get to SEE another Okami, there's a chance that hell will freeze over before we see another Shenmue.
09/26/09
Western Developers have started to realize this and that's why they are evolving, compared to Japanese developers who can't even change a tiny feature without the neckbeards getting on freaking 2 and 4chan and raging, then trolling Amazon and any rating system they can find. I look at Valve as a developer who will cater to it's core to a point, but will roll up the newspaper and smack them in the nose when it's called for.
Japanese devs need to take this into account. And core gamers need to start proving themselves worth the many money pits dug for them instead of discussing a game like it's fine art, but instead of buying it on launch day, waiting for it to hit the used game bin.
09/26/09
09/26/09
theres a lot to this topic, i'm sure we all know the points by now.
09/27/09
09/26/09
Instead of ingenuity that's distinctly Japanese, they're trying to marry the Western Style with Japanese style and that doesn't work...
Well, that's part of it, anyhow. I think they'll get the best results locally and worldwide if they stick to the ideas that they've come up with (and, you know, ALWAYS THINK of new ideas)
09/26/09
09/26/09
This just dawned on me. You know what it is? Development costs are too high to focus on a niche (used loosely) such as Japan. You need to sell to the world if you want to compete and recoup your costs.
This was fine for Japan ten years ago because it was the only game in town. Now, with the rise of Western developers creating games for a Western audience, Japan can't simply rely on being the big cheese and assume people will flock to its wares.
Remember that the original Metal Gear Solid was a dud in Japan. I'm exaggerating, sure, but it didn't do nearly as well there as it did abroad. Why? Because it's essentially a Western game. The same goes for Resident Evil. Nothing about either title screams "Nippon," but those two are the biggest games to come out of Japan this generation and have been consistently so in the past few years.
Japan needs to scale back. Cater to its niche fanbase. Look to XBLA/PSN as a means to keep costs down on the consoles, and focus on DS/PSP as it has been doing where it's still Japan or bust. Spread your costs among several smaller projects so that should something bomb you don't eat the losses, and just ride this out until you find your way.
09/26/09
That's not what the japanese are doing, though, they are trying to be the west.
I don't think there's anything wrong with Japan trying for an international appeal.
For example, Super Mario never felt "Japanese", it's usually an enjoyable game. Nintendo, a japanese company, created it. Yet I have no problem thinking that Sucker Punch or Insomniac would've been able to create something similar.
There's really no iron-wall of gaming separating us.
Coherent I am not.
09/27/09
"Copycats never surpass originals."
Pardon me but that's bullshit. There are tons of products, and entertainment that have surpassed the thing that inspired it.
See:
Star Wars
Raiders of the Lost Ark
The Ipod
Windows OS
I could go on for years. In fact the Japanese video game industry would not have existed if there was no Atari 2600 to pave the way.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to marry an existing successful idea with your own and trying to make something new.
To me this is just a transition period for the Japanese industry and they have to understand how other people do it in other territories. Being walled off and out of touch with the rest of the world is what got them to this point in the first place.