@Tye-The-Czar: The newest 32 and 64GB iPods have the equivalent processor, ram and GPU than the 3gS, so yup, stay away from the 8 and 16GB ones though. #iphone3gs
As an owner of an iPhone 3gs I must say that I don't particularly mind if it's power isn't fully utilised. My favourite games are most often the most simple (in both graphics and gameplay) and made by smaller developers. And whilst I respect companies like gameloft for putting so much effort into iPhone development and pushing the boundaries with 3d graphics and console mimicing gameplay experiences I can't help but feel they should better utilise controls and such other crucial elements.
However not everyone is like me and you can see this in the high sales of 'pretty' 3d yet bland console game clones which pop up on the app store. Gamelofts new feature will indeed help with one of the main jobs of the iPhone (as a status symbol) and people can show of their more detailed textures to jealous eyes, of course until apple decides to paint each new model in a distinctive neon colour which can be seen from miles away. #iphone3gs
I remember them [ngmoco in particular I think] talking about how they would use PC/console like programming to have texture streaming on the fly based on the hardware and its performance
But this is by far the easiest solution... #iphone3gs
I don't understand why would people think that having better specs on the same architecture is a bad thing to do over time, when we've been dealing with the exact same problem since forever with PC software.
As long as the developer puts the effort it can be done.
@Falsoman: I agree in principle, but a PC is very different from an iPod.
A PC you can tune yourself over time. You can modify it, customize it, whatever you want.
An iPod is whatever it was the day you bought it. And that's pretty much it, pending software updates. So in a sense developers HAD to deal with that problem on PC.
Things are a bit less straightforward when factoring for multiple platforms. The solution from this post is really a "dumbed-down" version. It's most definitely not an efficient solution or a proper one. But it will get the job done.
Honestly the biggest flaw with the App store is the amount of garbage that shows up in it. Like you said, "As long as the developer puts the effort it can be done." But since a lot of developers WON'T do that, maybe we'll see the worse developers weeded out of the App store marketplace a bit? The side effect being a couple of decent indie developments might not show up... #iphone3gs
@Falsoman: ...which is a problem on the iPhone, when the most expensive game that will actually sell is only $10, most developers can't afford to put the effort in. #iphone3gs
@TuxBobble: and @Dreamwriter: Thanks for your responses. I think you do have somewhat valid points but are a bit incomplete.
@TuxBobble: Thanks, I read again the article and I agree, the solution gameloft is implementing doesn't sound ideal, however I disagree in the part of that in the PC market is valid and the iPhone/iPod market is not. It's even less of a trouble on the iPod because there's really just two different targets for graphics... the ones with the old devices and the ones that want to do the fancy graphics. And a developer can choose to catter to the lower common denominator and have their app working on everything, or do extra work for the fancy graphics and detect the hardware and load assets accordingly.
On your point of the Appstore having too much crap, it's a valid point but still not sure what has to do with the graphics handling. There's as much or more crap software going on on PCs, that doesn't diminish the fact that there's great software for any device. The real problem is the fact of having it all on the same place, i agree, and Apple should develop a better way of sorting their lists according to "quality".
On your third point, and this also goes @Dreamwriter: Yes most developers will not make the effort, be it for budget, technical skills or simply lack of effort, but if you've been paying atention it's comming to a point where a lot of quality games are starting to show on the appstore and outshine the other ones... so the standards are growing and the effort is going to have to be made in order to sell your software.
For the price argument. That is a really valid argument and yes, there's gonna have to happen. However, it comes back to the point of: If a developer cannot afford to make a version taking advantage of the fancy graphics, they can still make great games using lesser ones that work in all of the devices.
Now ths was a long ass post and i'm gonna stop now! #iphone3gs
And this is why Apple shouldn't make a drive into console land.
Just imagine if the Ps3 slim had an upgraded Cell n RSX, and you'd go out n buy games that would then check if you have the old model then play that, and the PS3 Slim gets it running slightly better, then in a year most folks will be developing Slim only games, oh and the PS3 Speedy is out and that gets two versions made for it too.
The DSi n PSP 2000+ have faster hardware inside, but its locked down so the game works the same across all platforms.
And we all know that in a year the iPhone 4G or whatever they decide to call it will be out, and that too will have faster games.
Yeah you get the advantage of better looking games if you can afford to upgrade each year, but the developers need to make 2 versions of each game, and wel,l you need to get a new device each year. #iphone3gs
@deanbmmv: First of all, the iPhone/iPod Touch isn't a game console, so it's not really fair to compare them to those products. If anything, they should be compared to cellphones, which also deal with changing specs that block older phone owners from being able to play the newest games. Even if they always buy the newest model of the same phone.
Second of all, having to deal with a range of specs is no different than what PC developers and users have had to do since the dawn of PC gaming. So personally, I don't see a problem here. #iphone3gs
@Communist Pope: Well I'm pretty sure the keynote n the emails they carry on sending me (how the hell do they have me email address) carry on telling me how great it is for gaming. heck if it wasn't a game console why would they compare it to NDS n PSP instead of other phones?
Apple are currently marketing it as a handheld console, so I shall treat it as if that's what it is.
Most 'older ' phones run off Java and aren't marketed as gaming devices but phones.
and its not a PC, it isn't modular. So a range of specs shouldn't be expected.
Apple want to market it as a gaming device, they treat it as a gaming device. #iphone3gs
@deanbmmv: But why shouldn't be expected that the device gets better models over time?
Yes, it's not the ideal for a gaming console, however it IS the same as PC gaming and developers don't seem to have a problem with it. Also, consoles mantain an inflated price over time, wich is kind of ironic since we are talking about an Apple product, but then again, the ipods have been getting cheaper AND getting better specs, but that's besides the point.
I just don't see the big problem many people are seeing. There are three different processor speeds on the iphone/ipod AND two different ammounts of ram, but it's the exact same architecture and a program developed for one should work with all of the devices. The only problem here is that if you want to do great graphics for the new devices you also have to put a checker so assets are handled differeny from any of the three devices. Wich is what people have been doing with handheld PCs and PCs for ever.
If a developer cannot afford it he can develop software for the lowest common denominator and leave it at that. It will work on all devices. #iphone3gs
@deanbmmv: Yes, they market its gaming capabilities but they don't market it solely as a handheld console -- that's just one of the many factors they tout (hence the much more prominent "there's an app for that" campaign). It's kind of like saying that the Xbox 360 is primarily a social networking device, because Microsoft markets the console's social networking capabilities. It's not as though stores stock the iPhone right next to the PSPs and DSes.
@Marcelo Riberti Fanfa: lol.. the 32x cd, sega cd, and 32x (which were almost the same platform considering there was less than a handful of games released for the 32x cd) were pretty much dead by the time the saturn dropped (in NA).
the genesis and the saturn co-existing was no big deal, but the genesis add-ons were atrocious, especially the 32x. the sega cd (especially with the jrpgs we never saw here), was a decent addition to a genesis owners library in its prime.
but basically, the sega cd was to the genesis what natal and the ps3 wand are to 360 and ps3. im sure there will still be ps3 games and ps3 wand games (unless its a HUGE flop) co-existing with ps4 shelfspace. #iphone3gs
More games should start to do this. I personally find it dumb that developers are putting out two versions of their games to appease both audiences. #iphone3gs
@NDN_Shadow: And if you have them bundled in the same purchase, if you upgrade your device you reap the benefits without having to purchase another binary.
What we should worry over is how much bloat is being added to support alternate hardware configurations. #iphone3gs
"...which is bad news for the 40 million people in possession of an iPhone, iPhone 3G..."
A lot of people who bought the iPhone and skipped the 3G are buying the 3GS. And a lot of people who bought the 3G are upgrading to the 3GS. So, a very large number of people will actually switch to the 3GS and, soon, it'll make sense to have applications that take advantage of the extra power and, of course, OpenGL ES 2.0.
that's what i did, i still use my first gen launch iphone and skipped the 3g version. now with the 3gs and it's added features, along with the carryover 3g features, it's worth an upgrade for me. plus my iphone is now 2 years old, but still selling well on ebay, so that's probably where my old one (unlocked) will end up.
@kneehighspy: yeah, I'm also going for the 2-year plan.
I only upgraded from the v1 to the 3G because in the end, I "won" 100 euros due to various promotions. The 3GS doesn't offer enough to justify a change, but the 3GS++ next June will be perfect (end of my operator's contract == huuuuge promotions to keep me as a client).
OHHH, I can't wait to try this, definitely an inventive use of technology, you know someone will still take the time to run around to spell dirty words though.
This is the first I've actually seen of gaming on the iPhone. It looks like it has the power to be a good system, but using the touch screen for everything would drive me insane. Both having my hand constantly going in my view to click little things and smudges it could leave.
Also not sure I like the idea of upgrading the hardware when so many people have already bought into the older model. Seems like it could cause a pretty big rift if they continue to do so.
I've never been able to see what's so good about either the iPhone or the iPod Touch, but then again, I've never used one for long.
I mean, I've got an indestructible old Nokia cell (flashlight and everything!), my cheap 3Gb Sony MP3 player, and my laptop for everything... and I'm not one to be doing things such as chatting in a public space (maybe because I'm in México and I don't trust anyone looking at me holding expensive electronic devices).
@Juan José Méndez Gallardo: For me, it's not lugging all that crap around while I'm going everywhere. I like having the ability to have all this information in my pocket without it taking up a huge amount of space, and some of the apps are rather handy (aside from gaming, I can check for wireless hotspots without firing up a PC, stream audio and video in my car from my home PC, and look at my bank balance without visiting an ATM).
Not going to knock those who don't want it, if what you use works for you then go ahead. I just like having the peace of mind that I can consolidate all of this hardware into an all-in-one (not to mention the fact that I used to miss tons of calls while walking with my MP3 player blaring music because I couldn't hear the ringer or feel the vibrating of the phone itself, lol).
@Tenshigure: Do the letters TCO mean anything to you?
@Juan José Méndez Gallardo: I've seen ones with completely busted screens that still work perfectly. I do have a case for mine, but I'm not currently using it. I'd have to drop it to find out, and I'm not doing that...sorry.
@Azraeus: Only if the letters RD mean anything to you...
@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > zerg rush: Wait, what? You detest the iPhone due to losing your sense of touch...and yet you like the iPod Touch? That makes zero sense! They use the exact same interface, but the iPhone can make PHONE CALLS! O.o;;
Also, although Az already covered this, AT&T doesn't charge for calling other AT&T customers...and, newsflash, Verizon charges for incoming text messages as well.
I'm no AT&T fanboy (more of a T-Mobile guy myself), but call a Spade a Spade, don't be blind about your own 'features'!
I really wish the iPod Touch would get mentioned as well. Bad enough we're being asked to fork over $10 for a firmware update. I'd gladly do it if Apple would promise not to moderate the App Store.
The fact you have to pay for firmware upgrades should nullify any talk of anyone using this device for any reason, games, music, or otherwise. That's flat out absurd, and it churns my stomach every time I'm reminded of it.
What kind of customer do you have to be to bend over for service like that?
10/22/09
I don't want to have to deal with the devil that is AT&T. #iphone3gs
10/22/09
10/22/09
However not everyone is like me and you can see this in the high sales of 'pretty' 3d yet bland console game clones which pop up on the app store. Gamelofts new feature will indeed help with one of the main jobs of the iPhone (as a status symbol) and people can show of their more detailed textures to jealous eyes, of course until apple decides to paint each new model in a distinctive neon colour which can be seen from miles away. #iphone3gs
10/22/09
But this is by far the easiest solution... #iphone3gs
10/22/09
I don't understand why would people think that having better specs on the same architecture is a bad thing to do over time, when we've been dealing with the exact same problem since forever with PC software.
As long as the developer puts the effort it can be done.
10/22/09
A PC you can tune yourself over time. You can modify it, customize it, whatever you want.
An iPod is whatever it was the day you bought it. And that's pretty much it, pending software updates. So in a sense developers HAD to deal with that problem on PC.
Things are a bit less straightforward when factoring for multiple platforms. The solution from this post is really a "dumbed-down" version. It's most definitely not an efficient solution or a proper one. But it will get the job done.
Honestly the biggest flaw with the App store is the amount of garbage that shows up in it. Like you said, "As long as the developer puts the effort it can be done." But since a lot of developers WON'T do that, maybe we'll see the worse developers weeded out of the App store marketplace a bit? The side effect being a couple of decent indie developments might not show up... #iphone3gs
10/22/09
10/22/09
@TuxBobble: Thanks, I read again the article and I agree, the solution gameloft is implementing doesn't sound ideal, however I disagree in the part of that in the PC market is valid and the iPhone/iPod market is not. It's even less of a trouble on the iPod because there's really just two different targets for graphics... the ones with the old devices and the ones that want to do the fancy graphics. And a developer can choose to catter to the lower common denominator and have their app working on everything, or do extra work for the fancy graphics and detect the hardware and load assets accordingly.
On your point of the Appstore having too much crap, it's a valid point but still not sure what has to do with the graphics handling. There's as much or more crap software going on on PCs, that doesn't diminish the fact that there's great software for any device. The real problem is the fact of having it all on the same place, i agree, and Apple should develop a better way of sorting their lists according to "quality".
On your third point, and this also goes @Dreamwriter: Yes most developers will not make the effort, be it for budget, technical skills or simply lack of effort, but if you've been paying atention it's comming to a point where a lot of quality games are starting to show on the appstore and outshine the other ones... so the standards are growing and the effort is going to have to be made in order to sell your software.
For the price argument. That is a really valid argument and yes, there's gonna have to happen. However, it comes back to the point of: If a developer cannot afford to make a version taking advantage of the fancy graphics, they can still make great games using lesser ones that work in all of the devices.
Now ths was a long ass post and i'm gonna stop now! #iphone3gs
10/22/09
Just imagine if the Ps3 slim had an upgraded Cell n RSX, and you'd go out n buy games that would then check if you have the old model then play that, and the PS3 Slim gets it running slightly better, then in a year most folks will be developing Slim only games, oh and the PS3 Speedy is out and that gets two versions made for it too.
The DSi n PSP 2000+ have faster hardware inside, but its locked down so the game works the same across all platforms.
And we all know that in a year the iPhone 4G or whatever they decide to call it will be out, and that too will have faster games.
Yeah you get the advantage of better looking games if you can afford to upgrade each year, but the developers need to make 2 versions of each game, and wel,l you need to get a new device each year. #iphone3gs
10/22/09
Second of all, having to deal with a range of specs is no different than what PC developers and users have had to do since the dawn of PC gaming. So personally, I don't see a problem here. #iphone3gs
10/22/09
Apple are currently marketing it as a handheld console, so I shall treat it as if that's what it is.
Most 'older ' phones run off Java and aren't marketed as gaming devices but phones.
and its not a PC, it isn't modular. So a range of specs shouldn't be expected.
Apple want to market it as a gaming device, they treat it as a gaming device. #iphone3gs
10/22/09
Yes, it's not the ideal for a gaming console, however it IS the same as PC gaming and developers don't seem to have a problem with it. Also, consoles mantain an inflated price over time, wich is kind of ironic since we are talking about an Apple product, but then again, the ipods have been getting cheaper AND getting better specs, but that's besides the point.
I just don't see the big problem many people are seeing. There are three different processor speeds on the iphone/ipod AND two different ammounts of ram, but it's the exact same architecture and a program developed for one should work with all of the devices. The only problem here is that if you want to do great graphics for the new devices you also have to put a checker so assets are handled differeny from any of the three devices. Wich is what people have been doing with handheld PCs and PCs for ever.
If a developer cannot afford it he can develop software for the lowest common denominator and leave it at that. It will work on all devices. #iphone3gs
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
the genesis and the saturn co-existing was no big deal, but the genesis add-ons were atrocious, especially the 32x. the sega cd (especially with the jrpgs we never saw here), was a decent addition to a genesis owners library in its prime.
but basically, the sega cd was to the genesis what natal and the ps3 wand are to 360 and ps3. im sure there will still be ps3 games and ps3 wand games (unless its a HUGE flop) co-existing with ps4 shelfspace. #iphone3gs
10/22/09
10/22/09
What we should worry over is how much bloat is being added to support alternate hardware configurations. #iphone3gs
07/09/09
07/09/09
07/09/09
A lot of people who bought the iPhone and skipped the 3G are buying the 3GS. And a lot of people who bought the 3G are upgrading to the 3GS. So, a very large number of people will actually switch to the 3GS and, soon, it'll make sense to have applications that take advantage of the extra power and, of course, OpenGL ES 2.0.
07/09/09
that's what i did, i still use my first gen launch iphone and skipped the 3g version. now with the 3gs and it's added features, along with the carryover 3g features, it's worth an upgrade for me. plus my iphone is now 2 years old, but still selling well on ebay, so that's probably where my old one (unlocked) will end up.
07/09/09
I only upgraded from the v1 to the 3G because in the end, I "won" 100 euros due to various promotions. The 3GS doesn't offer enough to justify a change, but the 3GS++ next June will be perfect (end of my operator's contract == huuuuge promotions to keep me as a client).
07/09/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
06/26/09
06/26/09
Releasing that model next month hardly fits with Apple's incrementalist business model.
06/26/09
06/26/09
Also not sure I like the idea of upgrading the hardware when so many people have already bought into the older model. Seems like it could cause a pretty big rift if they continue to do so.
06/26/09
I mean, I've got an indestructible old Nokia cell (flashlight and everything!), my cheap 3Gb Sony MP3 player, and my laptop for everything... and I'm not one to be doing things such as chatting in a public space (maybe because I'm in México and I don't trust anyone looking at me holding expensive electronic devices).
So, what's so good about them?
06/26/09
Not going to knock those who don't want it, if what you use works for you then go ahead. I just like having the peace of mind that I can consolidate all of this hardware into an all-in-one (not to mention the fact that I used to miss tons of calls while walking with my MP3 player blaring music because I couldn't hear the ringer or feel the vibrating of the phone itself, lol).
06/26/09
@Juan José Méndez Gallardo: I've seen ones with completely busted screens that still work perfectly. I do have a case for mine, but I'm not currently using it. I'd have to drop it to find out, and I'm not doing that...sorry.
06/26/09
@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > zerg rush: Wait, what? You detest the iPhone due to losing your sense of touch...and yet you like the iPod Touch? That makes zero sense! They use the exact same interface, but the iPhone can make PHONE CALLS! O.o;;
Also, although Az already covered this, AT&T doesn't charge for calling other AT&T customers...and, newsflash, Verizon charges for incoming text messages as well.
I'm no AT&T fanboy (more of a T-Mobile guy myself), but call a Spade a Spade, don't be blind about your own 'features'!
06/26/09
06/26/09
The fact you have to pay for firmware upgrades should nullify any talk of anyone using this device for any reason, games, music, or otherwise. That's flat out absurd, and it churns my stomach every time I'm reminded of it.
What kind of customer do you have to be to bend over for service like that?