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Denver, 6:00 AM
Sat Nov 21
50 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/06/09
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However giving an excuse that dedicated servers are relics as the reason is pretty lame. They should just come out and be honest that they don't think it's going to be financially viable for them to add the extra code. At least they wouldn't be looking like IW at the moment. #idsoftware
11/06/09
On the other hand, I'm still pretty trusting that whatever Carmack does will work. He might not be the most original when it comes to story etc, but he is usually pretty anal about making it work. #idsoftware
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So no, they aren't lazy. They might have misjudged the value of the things they prioritized, but it's not like they're taking a couple of extra weeks vacation because they're not including a certain feature.
If you think people can get jobs at top-tier developers and be lazy, you're welcome to try. The competition for joining this kind of developer is insane. #idsoftware
11/06/09
"We'll see how it works out for everyone else.
If you don't give a fuck about your player base - works out great!! That much is clear already!! :D #idsoftware
11/06/09
@avconsumer2: Out of interest, though I know of the original origin of "Et tu Brute?" but theres been a recent surge of it's use in the IWnet n id articles, and I'm just wondering if this image was the one that's spawned it's resurgence. #idsoftware
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That image is made be me. Nice to know I sparked a trend :P #idsoftware
11/06/09
Though I hadn't seen it yet (and upon scrolling down, was already used), the phrase occurred to me originally at the beginning of the IW fiasco. #idsoftware
11/06/09
Oh and why hadn't I hearted you yet, I've seen you commenting alot championing the PC cause. #idsoftware
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Bioware churning in mega bucks on PC, EA too, which they learnt with Spore that PC users bite back, Bioware, Valve, Betsheda etc etc So really ATVI shouldn't expect much if they carry on fucking over PC users.
And good riddance tbh, ATVI really need a major financial kick up the ass. #idsoftware
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11/06/09
I just cannot come up with a compelling argument how p2p is better than a dedicated server experience.
Just curious. Now's you chance - CONVINCE ME. Seriously I want to know how p2p is better than a dedicated server.
I should qualify my post - how is it better for me the gamer and not just you the dev/publisher.
11/06/09
I should ad that in THIS case, I think Carmack gets the benefit of the doubt.
We all know ActiBlizzard is in it to monetize every time you think about a video game. #idsoftware
11/06/09
Whereas with P2P matchmaking they do need a server running the service to match makes folks n tie em off with each other. And once they no longer feel like running the mathcmaking service, they turn off the servers and Rage's online no longer works. Whereas I'd wager Quake III still has a fair few servers up n running and that game is 10 years old. Some dedicated servers outlive the companies that made them. #idsoftware
11/06/09
I read this as iD won't be running any servers. i do admit that it should be optional for people who want to have their own.
And running a matchmaking server akes even less horsepower than a dedicated server, so I won't even go into that argument. #idsoftware
11/06/09
They have to keep it running, code the algorithm, put up with complaints for when it goes down.
As soon as IWnet goes down for just a few hours, IW will get torn apart.
But yes, all issues would be solved if they just allowed the choice. COD4 you had the choice of playing matchmaking on consoles, or dedicated on PC, now its matchmaking on console or matchmaking on PC.
It'd be like going into a voting booth last November n having
[] McCain
[] McCain #idsoftware
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Now its a dictatorship where we are told how to play our games and that we will like them. #idsoftware
11/06/09
We all know this is probably one of the very few franchises that can dictate to gamers, instead of the other way around. #idsoftware
11/06/09
If the numbers are drastically less for MW2, then the PC masses have spoken. #idsoftware
11/06/09
I know it's a shitty thing to say, but at this point PC gamers are lucky they are still thrown a bone.
I'm not saying it's fair. Just the reality. #idsoftware
11/06/09
500,000 is alot. that's $25million+ just on retail units alone.
(bear in mind my numbers are form an article 4 months after MW's release, been a year on top of that)
It's not lucky that PC gamers are being thrown a bone, its a fucking disgrace. #idsoftware
11/06/09
And the consoles combined for what...last I looked it was like 9.5 million.
So the PC accounted fora half a percent.
The writing has been on the wall for a while. #idsoftware
11/06/09
The writing on the wall says you may want to look to your calculator again.
Also just because consoles outsell PC doesn't mean PC is over. Just means that consoles are getting more folks on em. Which has been happening since 5th gen when PS1 broke the 100million barrier.
When PC games start selling sub-20K units for AAA games, then come back n tell me the PC industry is dead. #idsoftware
11/06/09
See the money angle still doesn't make sense. Even from the dev publisher side. Unless they are afraid of not getting a basic return on the investment it would take for the PC version. (ie piracy)
If they have a match making service in place, they have to pay to run that infrastructure that all the players will be tied to. That takes money every month to pay for. It's not like this game is a subscription based games like WoW. If they keep the game running for years it might actually cost them MORE than developing a dedicated server.
11/06/09
Also, good points...I don't play these games on the PC but as a independent developer I am seeing the market being segmented between the folks that are active PC supporters and those who could really care less and just want to shoot stuff.
In your estimation, do you see these companies hearing the cries of the people and doing something about it? Sorry you folks are dealing with this blasphemy!! #idsoftware
11/06/09
I'm thinking ATVI won't listen.
The fact that as the petion ticks over to 180K pc gamers wanting dedicated servers on MW2 Bowling boasts that they could turn to 60K twitter subscribers to ask what they wanted in the game just shows that they have stuck their fingers in their ears to PC.
However there are still many developers n publishers that support PC.
And they will listen to PC users, it's such a flexible platform that they can try out so many things that get suggested. And thankfully developers recognise that. I think id will probs change their mind on the dedicated servers, I'm hoping they are saying its great IW are going first beacuase they want to see the sales figures n see hopw mch non-dedi's affects it. #idsoftware
11/06/09
In my estimation, and like I had said before, it appears the market is turning to the "casual" audience. It's a severe underestimation of how the PC gamer works, being that most of the time they do a lot of work with the game and figure out glitches, easter eggs, work arounds, etc. All that is sort of besides the point at hand, but still relevant for limiting them the choice of simply using a prefered "friendly" server of their liking. I appreciate the fact that the PC gamers are so vigorous with this whereas in my case I can't worry too much about that stuff, as the console gaming environment is pretty much pre-determined by the service provider (Microsoft in my case).
I strongly believe that with a relatively open platform like the PC it should be the end user that dictates how the game will be played. This is a huge step backwards by not allowing the PC users to interface as they normally would with dedicated servers. Thanks for your input and the comment was well said on your part. Good luck to the petitioners :) #idsoftware
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How is waiting 5 minutes between each match an improvement? Especially when there's a risk you'll end up with somebody with crap ping, or on a map that you hate. #idsoftware
11/06/09
There are many relics related to PC Gaming but dedicated servers are not one of the negatives. It now seems like John Carmack is a relic of pcgaming who no longer understands his audience.
We can still enjoy ancient (relic) ID games because of dedicated servers and community support and only the die hards pay to keep these up for us. How much longevity will Rage have without the pc gaming community propping it up?
Anyway, enough ranting, anyone fancy a game of Q3: Urban Terror on a dedi?
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Also means you can have long tail sales. #idsoftware
11/06/09
"The great thing is we won’t have to be a pioneer on that"
That's not great id.... #idsoftware
11/06/09
Well, Id hasn't inovated in a very, very long time. So it's comfortable ground for them. #idsoftware
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I look forward to seeing their choice platform die a slow, agonizing death. #idsoftware
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copy+paste=fail. #idsoftware
11/05/09
but lets face it, both as a developer and as a publisher id have not released a good game in years.... i have zero interest in "Rage"... hell i didnt even know it had multiplayer. likely wouldn't have bought it anyway but this is still saddening news as a whole
why the hell haven't dev's other than DICE come out and said they will keep doing dedicated servers (im talking to you Valve!) #idsoftware
11/06/09
It's sad to say, but it may be that Team Fortress 2 was the last great FPS to play in the traditional way from Valve. #idsoftware
11/06/09
i really don't see why the two can't co-exist. A "Quick match" option in menu for matchmaking, and an "Advanced" option in menu to pull up a server browser - not really rocket science... i think if they did that though they'd realise that the huge % of PC players just want the advanced option #idsoftware
11/06/09
11/05/09
We're not a bunch of loons; we know how the back end of gaming works on a technical level. Often times the users, through various tweaks, make changes that ultimately makes the game better and that gets adopted officially. It's one thing to piss off an idiot; it's another thing to piss off someone that's in the know.
Who knows though, maybe it's all just a ploy to kill PC gaming once and for all? None of this will affect piracy. There is a good chance piracy will jump on PC because the users that hadn't given in feel cheated by the developers. Users will crack the game and build their own dedicated servers separate from whatever service is put in place complete with every feature that they're saying you could only get with their system.
Jeez. Way to encourage piracy industry. #idsoftware
11/05/09
11/05/09
IW's response really do read like an insult to any even semi-tech savvy gamer. When you're touting K+M controls, graphics options, and in-game text chat as what defines the PC version and makes it something other than a port, you're an idiot. Yet that's all the devs could give us.
PC gamers know how to tweak their games of choice in order to improve them, and we already understand the systems their trying to put it. We know what matchmaking is, we used that in the 90s for God's sake. This isn't a progression, it's straight up regression. If you're doing this because it gives you a way to force DLC charges, future game migrations/transitions, or curb pirate population online, then say so. Don't try to feed us obvious lies. Have the balls to tell us like it is. We'll still hate you for your decisions, but at the very least we'll still be able to respect you for being honest with us. #idsoftware
11/05/09
<3
Also Mamba, I think you misunderstood what the poor guy was saying lol. Re-think about that a bit. #idsoftware
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Why are you defending a company for stripping features away? I can't even begin to understand this. In IW's case, these are all features in the original MW that they went OUT OF THEIR WAY to remove, despite the fact they knew we'd be unhappy with these changes. They even stated that developing IWnet cost them quite a bit, so money wasn't an issue.
At this rate they might as well not make it for the PC. They're already saying they'll provide minimal support for it, so why go out of your way to piss off your customers?
And finally: "why should they be honest to you?"
Really. Why should a company be honest with us. That makes you sound like a complete sheep. It's okay, lie to us, I'll buy your product anyways and love you for lying to us! #idsoftware
11/06/09
11/05/09
were consoles in the base. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years.
His warnings to PC Gamers were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late
for now, anyway.
John was a programmer for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the
spaceships and he said to dad "I want to program the games daddy."
Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY CONSOLES"
There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in
the convention floor of the E3 he knew there were consoles.
"This is PC Gamers" the radio crackered. "You must fight the consoles!"
So John gotted his compiler and wrote up the Rage engine.
"HE GOING TO KILL US" said the consoles.
"I will shoot at him" said the 360 and he fired the RROD missiles. John
compiled at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were
trapped and not able to compete.
"No! I must kill the consoles" he shouted
The radio said "No, John. You are the consoles"
And then John was ditching dedicated servers. #idsoftware
11/05/09
And Mr. Carmack, while I do respect what you have done for the PC community as a whole and your skills it is quite apparent that you have lost touch with the community that paid for the seat you are sitting in. Calling dedicated server support "a relic of PC gaming's early days" while you gush over P2P hosting in the face of bandwith caps and other restrictions from ISP's shows what crowd you are kissing up to.
As for the rest of you who use consoles I really do not have any anger for you. If anything, I'd like to say I'm sorry that the PC community did not support you at the beginning when they started to force you to accept to pay for content. I'm even more sorry for the fact that none of you will ever know what online multiplayer was like, and how fun it was to hang out with friends and test your skills against strangers, before things like Xbox Live even existed.
Heck, maybe you're right in that it's time for gamers like us who lives in those days to give it up and shut up. But for us it's hard to see something that we enjoyed for a long time, heck longer than even some of you have been on this Earth, just slowly go from a community full of modders who spent hours diving into various servers into a lobotomized chatroom that happens to also let you play a game. #idsoftware
11/05/09
what's the difference between a dedicated server and an undedicated server?
did the undedicated server just drop out of school or something? #idsoftware
11/05/09
It means significantly less lag, less chance of getting booted from a game because of a timeout, less chance of a server crash. Additionally, these servers cost next to nothing to developers/publishers beyond developing the server software and maybe running a handful as most are run by players who rent one off somewhere like Typefrag.com
It also leads to (generally) better moderation and cheat prevention as cheats/exploits/hacks that are (currently) undetectable by automated software can be detected by a human moderator. #idsoftware
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A non-dedicated server is basically what you have going on in the PC version of CoD4, Gears of War, or Halo 3. It's the system that has become profitable and successful on console. We don't want it. #idsoftware
11/05/09
[www.youtube.com]
"This is just the beginning. Soon other Games will follow suit..." -Hitler #idsoftware