Politics, if we take the word seriously, refers to the actual executive and legislative effort that our elected officials partake in to alter and update the rules of our society. In an ideal representative democracy, the one leads to the other, but in contemporary society the two are orthogonal.

Ironically, this is exactly where video games would find their most natural connection to political speech.

When we make video games, we construct simulated worlds in which different rules apply.

To play games involves taking on roles in those worlds, making decisions within the constraints they impose, and then forming judgments about living in them.

Video games can synthesize the raw materials of civic life and help us pose the fundamental political question, What should be the rules by which we live?

It's a nice roundup of the spectrum of election- and politics-related games, and Bogost has some interesting thoughts on where the 'serious games' industry could perhaps head next.

Persuasive Games: The Birth and Death of the Election Game [Gamasutra]

Much of the rhetoric surrounding these game creation and distribution sites relies on accessibility: they are supposed to make game development easy. But the truth is, simplified creation tools don't necessarily make creativity easier or harder, they just impose different constraints.

Honorarium [Sims Carnival via Ian Bogost]

When we acknowledge videogames as a medium, the notion of a monolithic games industry, which creates a few kinds of games for a few kinds of players, stops making any sense. As does the idea of a demographic category called “gamers” who are the ones who play these games.

The point is not whether games qualify as art or not. Nor whether games are useful tools or not. Rather, the point is that there are lots of other things people can and do accomplish with videogames. Some are well-established, like entertainment, and some are emerging, like meditation. No matter, all of those uses taken together make the medium stronger and give it greater longevity.

I'd quibble with some of his assertions on books (We don't distinguish between 'serious' and 'entertaining' books? C'mon Ian, you can't possibly believe that — and if you do, I've got a couple of bookshelves I'd like you to see), but it's an interesting essay on the wide and varied uses of games — and what that may mean for the industry.

The End of Gamers [Edge Online via Water Cooler Games]

SoftWhere 2008 videos [Grand Text Auto]

When you take or teach courses called, for example, Game Studies 101; when you hold a degree in "new media studies" (wink, wink); when you publish your research in a journal called Game Studies; or when you actually are a professor of game studies, you end up feeling like you know what games do - and what they should do.

That wouldn't be so bad - it's business-as-usual for academics, in fact - if game studies didn't harbor what amounts to a desperate need to lay claim to ownership of game design as well as theory. It turns out that they don't just want to write articles and grant Ph.D.'s - they want to design our games, too.

Well, Ian Bogost — one of those people Travis is referring to — fired back

A considerable portion of my first book and my other writings object to the very idea that game studies stands alone. You cite a three-year-old prolegomenon by Aarseth, one meant as a provocation (something he's known for), and decide to attribute it to all game scholars. You make a "plea to gamers to turn the tables on Aarseth and other doyens of game studies" (myself included). Many (most?) of us already have done work to turn those very tables. Do you actually read any game studies scholarship?

Oh, snap. I consider myself lucky to be in a field that doesn't really suffer from a 'real world' vs. 'academic' split — we have enough drama amongst ourselves. The debate continues in the comment sections of both pieces, and is worth paging through if you have the time.

Quibus Lusoribus Bono? Who is Game Studies Good For? [Escapist] & A Response to Roger Travis [Ian Bogost] [both via GrandTextAuto]

... the potential is great. We craft every aspect of videogame worlds in excruciating detail: the marbled, diffracted surfaces of water, the filthy grit of alleyways, the splintered grain of bombed-out church rafters.

We render the visual and aural aspects of these worlds in startling vividness and at great expense. But those worlds remain imprisoned behind the glass of our televisions and our monitors. Rez shows us that as far as texture is concerned, games can be as much like food as they are like film.

He's clearly not advocating that all games can — or should — be Rez, but it's just another aspect we should be paying attention to. And, unlike a lot of ideas that get floated about improving the gamer-game interaction, ramping up the tactile factor when warranted seems easy enough to do.

Persuasive Games: Texture [Gamasutra]

This untapped potential of games upsets the very foundation of advertising as we know it. Instead of surrounding us with images that reflect lives unlived, games can allow us to try out hypothetical lives with new products, people and ideas. To realise this potential, advertisers of both goods and viewpoints must stop blindly inserting their billboards into games or creating feeble copies of the cornerstones of videogame pop culture. Instead, they must start simulating the products, public policy positions, charitable interventions and other worldly ideas in new games - games worthy of our attention.

I'm not sure I want to see advergames all over the place, but if we have to put up with in-game advertising, a little more sophistication would be welcomed.

Advertisers have yet to unlock the power of play [The Guardian]

... The observation that surprised me the most was how people totally unfamiliar with Spore reacted to the very idea of a creature editor. From my perspective, it's a brilliantly engineered, elegantly constructed content authoring tool. But from theirs, it's an unfamiliar interface to an almost deviant act.

... Among the newbies, there was a significant amount of uncertainty and performance anxiety. People weren't sure they would be able to build something, even with encouragement and example. One even said, over my shoulder, "I'm not sure I'm creative in that way." I found this reaction fascinating.

Is Spore 'For Everyone'? [GameSetWatch]

Eric Marcoullier and I were tonight embroiled in a riveting, yet wistful conversation about 70s/80s pop duo Hall and Oates. After reviewing classics such as this music video for the #1 hit title track of the 1981 album Private Eyes, it occurred to me:

Daryl Hall and John Oates look exactly like Kotaku editors Brian Ashcraft and Brian Crecente. See above, if you can imagine one pair smiling, or not smiling. Coincidence? Probably, but that's not enough of a reason for the two to form a cover band. Where's Rock & Soul Hero when you need it? I suppose it would have to include a peripheral moustache and hair extensions.

... I can see it. A little. I'm just amazed this came to Ian in a flash, since I'm not sure I would've made the nostalgic connection between our fearless leader, the second in command and 70s/80s pop icons. "You think Ashcraft has one of those grey leopard-y shirts?" he asked me. I'm not sure, but I'm sure we could rustle up one somewhere.

PRIVATE EYES / THEY'RE BLOGGING YOU ... blogging you blogging you blogging you [Ian Bogost]

First up was Wendy Goldner who spoke about her game, Wild Divine's Healing Rhythms which was created to help with stress management. Through the use of some little leads, the player's heart rate and breathing are monitored and become used in the "gameplay." Its execution was a little hippy-dippy for my taste, something along the lines of scented candles in the bathroom and sage smudges. Various self help gurus such as Deepak Chopra appear and talk the player through various relaxation exercises like breathing in time to the pulsating graphic of a tree. Once the proper breath rate was achieved, things would happen with the graphics like magical bridges, rainbows and butterflies appearing. I'm sure it's a very helpful program for some and certainly a great concept, but not quite my cup of tea.

Persuasive Games' Ian Bogost was also on hand showing off a great little old-school style game to relax with, Guru Meditation. Using an old Amiga JoyPad hooked up to an Atari 2600, the player basically sits on the JoyBoard and doesn't move, causing an on-screen 8-bit counterpart to float above his little pixelated yoga mat. You essentially play by not playing. If this sounds familiar to you it's because it's the same basic concept as the Wii Fit Balance Board and its meditation program.

"I'd say Nintendo stole it from me if I hadn't already stolen it from Amiga," Bogost joked.

Finally, USC's Tracy Fullerton took the mic and spoke a bit about one of the games developed at USC's Experimental Game Lab, The Night Journey. I had heard Fullerton talk about this game before at last year's Serious Games Summit in Atlanta. Based on and using the works of Video Artist Bill Viola, The Night Journey isn't a game about reaching a certain destination, but more about the journey. A virtual "journey of enlightenment" that takes players through dreamy landscapes and promotes pausing and reflecting on one's surroundings. Stopping and reflecting at any given area will cause landscape to morph and change.

It was interesting to see the three very different takes on the "relaxation in games" theme. Especially given that with the exception of the burgeoning casual games market, many games these days aren't designed with relaxation in mind. So just remember to always take some time to stop and smell the 8-bit roses.

Hush offers a glimpse, as it were, of how vignette might be used successfully in games. As an exploration of the potential of the style, the game is a success. And as a vignette of a situation in mid-90s civil war-torn Rwanda, the game is compelling, if perhaps simplistic and overly mawkish.

The anxiety of literal death contradicts the core mechanic's demand for calm, but in a surprising and satisfying way, like chili in chocolate. The increasingly harsh sound of a baby's cry that comes with failure attenuates the player's anxiety, further underscoring the tension at work in this grave scenario.

The game itself is very short, somewhat successful (Bogost wonders if the designers had ever rocked a child to sleep, since the actual game mechanic can be somewhat jerky and on the opposite end of the spectrum from the soothing activity of singing and rocking a child to sleep), but interesting — they are successful in conveying a sense of rising panic with the need to stay calm. The game is available for download in Windows and Mac formats.

Videogame Vignette [Gamasutra] & Hush [Jamie Antonisse]

By choosing your character's dietary and exercise habits, you can experiment with the constraints of nutrition and economics as they affect your character's general health. Will it be wheatgrass and soy? Or fried chicken at every meal? How much can you afford to spend on food, and how does that affect your general health? Characters who eat poorly will get fat. Characters who don't exercise will move around the world more laboriously. Disease and death will eventually ravage players with poor health, while those with good health will live to a ripe age.

Sounds ... weighty, on a number of levels. We'll see what public reception is like in a few days.

Prepare to Fatten [Water Cooler Games]

It's a fantastic question, I think, as Hollywood has no fear trotting out the cinematic goods that have a very brief window of appropriateness. Right now, three holiday films—Fred Claus, This Christmas and The Perfect Holiday—are currently showing in the US top ten box office, but there's not much beyond timed events, downloadable clothing and quests that are holiday specific in games these days. Holiday era re-issues on titles that underperformed or could appeal to the pre-order shy might be something the industry should think about.

We're just about up to our eyeballs in Christmas cards from developers, but what about demos for already released games with a candy cane or two thrown in? One might think that with all that downloadable content out there, whether free or pay-to-play, it might make financial sense to toss in an elf or Hannukah Harry.

Actually, I won't be surprised to see 2K or Midway ship a Wii minigame collection next November. Any games that you can think of that would benefit from a holiday re-skin?

Persuasive Games: The Holly and the Ivy [Gamasutra]

... the most Zen gardening in a video game by far is in Harvest Moon. The daily reaping, milking, chicken lifting, and related chores require precision, duty, and calm. The crop watering is my pick for the most calming, especially on the Game Boy or DS where the tile-based graphics more explicitly frame which square is which.

Harvest Moon emphasizes the repetition of simple tasks as much as, if not more than, their outcomes. Animal Crossing and Harvest Moon are games that invite the player to complete these tasks independent of the long-term goals they facilitate. Both are games one might boot up late at night, before bed, to wind down.

Nothing like infinitely repeating tasks that includes flinging chickens around the barnyard to make for a soothing play experience. It's a nice little article and a shift from the usual Bogost fare, and he makes some interesting points on the nature of relaxing games.

Persuasive Games: Video Game Zen [Gamasutra]

About me: I'm a professor of digital media at The Georgia Institute of Technology, and I'm the co-founder of Persuasive Games, a small independent game studio that makes games about social and political issues. I've written two books about games and culture, and I'm just finishing another one up literally this week. I also write about games in a few other places. As a designer, I make mostly strange games about airport security and copy stores and nutrition and oil and stuff.

In addition to the usual fare, I've got a few things planned for each day I'm here, hoping to break up the eternal nowness of games coverage with some looks back into unusual games and game-related curiosities of yore. You know, like, there were games before the PS2 and stuff.

Ian Bogost - official site [bogost.com]

No, [games] will only be important when — and if — others can point to our medium — to particular examples of it — and locate moments of individual insight that mattered in their lives. This is a charge for which we have only indirect control. We cannot insure it with transistors and pixel shaders. We cannot will it, we cannot even expect it ... [A]ll we can do is record those flaws, confusions, grievances, shocks, joys, surprises, and hopes.

We might choose to do so in videogames because they are a medium uniquely built for simulating life, for constraining actions, for creating roles others can embody. We might choose to do so in videogames because they are a medium of our moment in history. We might choose to do in videogames so because it is hard to do, because unlike the lyric poem they are a medium with more raw potential than proven triumph.

And then we can hope that history may preserve them, so that later — next week, next year, next century, next millennium — someone much like us might encounter them, and see a part of our lives in theirs.

Awww. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I think Bogost makes some interesting points (there's a sense of immediacy about trying to prove that games are relevant, that they must prove their worth right now) - and it's certainly framed in a way we don't see often. Archilocus? Baudelaire? Bukowski? If only he'd thrown in some Rexroth or Prévert!

Videogames: Can They Be Important? [Ian Bogost via Sexy Videogameland]

Most game developers are "core gamers", well versed in the complex logics of resource allocation. We tend to privilege simplicity and emergence in games, favoring sophisticated experiences that create new challenges each time we play. And perhaps one well-balanced, mastery-style casual game is less financially risky than many throwaway experiences. But such an attitude ignores the pleasures of the fleeting, the transitory, the impermanent. Casual games, perhaps, can do more by doing less.

It's an interesting take on things, but I'm not sure I can see any companies interested in turning a profit finding the one night stands of casual gaming a safe proposition.

Persuasive Games: Casual As In Sex, Not Casual As In Friday [Gamasutra]

OK, time to kick off the final discussion for Mr. Robot. Hit up the link below to join in the campfire. Remember this time around we are discussing the game up to the end of the cryo room. Joining us today is Georgia Tech professor Ian Bogost, the author of Persuasive Games: The Expressive Power of Videogames and a recent guest on the Cobert Report. So get your questions ready and hop on the link. If the room is full please follow along here, I'll be keeping an eye on the discussion and trying to post questions from here into the room.

Campfire

Brian C.
Alright folks lets get this party started. Settle down and no more talking with out the OK.
Ian B.
I'm usually pretty chill about that
shodanjr_gr
kk, ill shut up now
Brian C.
As a reminder our special guest tonight is Georgia Tech professor Ian Bogost, the author of Persuasive Games: The Expressive Power of Videogames and a recent guest on the Cobert Report.
Brian C.
if you want to ask a question or make a comment, just aim kotakugameclub
Brian C.
Just to get everyone up to speed. This is the last discussion of Mr. Robot. So you should have, thought might not have, finished the game.
Brian C.
Go ahead and AIM if you have any questions to start out with
Brian C.
Let's talk about the moral dilemma Asimov faces in the game. Should he put his faith in the bodyless human and potentially lose his chance at being truly alive, or should he just kill the crew?
Paul C.
has left the room
Brian C.
Ian, I'd like to ask if you think that a puzzle game, which is what this essentially is, has the ability to teach moral lessons
Brent
has entered the room
Brian C.
Ian has the floor
dghdfh
has entered the room
Ian B.
There is a famous conflict in game studies about that very question
Aug 16
9:50 PM
Moose
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Ian B.
Janet Murray, one of my colleagues at Georgia Tech, once suggested that Tetris represents the ethics of work in contemporary society. Always sorting, moving tasks, papers, calls, whatever, and still more come.
Ian B.
So, she saw it as a kind of allegory for what work is all about.
FloatingWorld
has entered the room
Ian B.
This really riled up a Finnish researcher named Markku Eskelinen, who thought that Murray's suggestion was absurd
Ian B.
But I think puzzles can abstractly represent real human experience, including moral dilemmas
datafox
With respect to the first question I think it is interesting how much faith is going on in the mind of Asimov. The only two humans you know are Zasamova and the Engineer. So you do not get a range of human personalities to draw from. Asimov is putting a lot of faith in the best of humanity.
Brian C.
As a reminder please if you want to ask a question or make a comment, just aim kotakugameclub
Brian C.
Atomicvege has the floor
Atomicvege
on that topic, how many people actually wiped the crew and how many left them alone? Personally, i didn't feel right doing that as a player so continued on
Lawinator
has left the room
fuck y.
has entered the room
Aug 16
9:55 PM
fuck y.
hello
Brian C.
I wonder if in this case the inclusion of a story actually got in the way of the lesson the game was trying to teach. Or was it trying to teach a question
Brian C.
As a reminder please if you want to ask a question or make a comment, just aim kotakugameclub
Brian C.
ian has the floor
Ian B.
I was listening to a recording of a GDC talk today, a Harmonix talk
Ian B.
I was listening to a recording of a GDC talk today, a Harmonix talk
Ian B.
and they were talking about the differences between Frequency and, say, Guitar Hero
Ian B.
and the importance of coupling the mechanics of music creation (in their case) to a specific context... this being one of the reasons Frequency and Amplitude were critical successes but commercial failures
Ian B.
Back to Tetris, with this in mind:
Ian B.
right, so
Ian B.
If you wanted to argue that Tetris is an allegory for work, you could do that by telling a story between or beside each level, right? This is what a lot of games do
Aug 16
Ian B.
But it's less tightly coupled to the mechanics than other ways of contextualizing meaning. For example, the Boss Key
ezrid
has entered the room
ezrid
Woa
Ian B.
in Tetris, brought up this fake spreadsheet in case you got caught playing while you were at work.
Brian C.
As a reminder please if you want to ask a question or make a comment, just aim kotakugameclub
Ian B.
And for me, that's a much more compelling reason to talk about the puzzle mechanic of the game as relating to work than if we had some capitalist storyline running through it
Brian C.
datafox has the floor
datafox
I think the game left out a lot of story for you to make judgements on the humans. You are asked if you want them to live or die but you do not have much interation with people. If it was more like System Shock 2 with e-mails or logs it would be more interesting since you can decide how humans thought of robots.
datafox
I did save the people.
Brian C.
dilan manatunga has the floor
Dilan M.
In response to Ian, his comments about Markuu remind me of why I really couldn't stand English class. At some point, I thought a poem was just a poem and the author really didn't intend to make some grand metaphor on the passage of life (not to say they don't ever mean to make a point). But then I realized, what's not important is what the author/creator means with his creation, but what you as a person gets out of it. For me, the story is what brought out the whole abstraction of what makes us people, or better put, sentient beings that have certain unalienable rights. The puzzle aspects, on the other hand, I'm really not sure what to get out of it though. Sorta like staring at a piece of abstract art. You feel like you should be getting something out of the piece of art, but you are not sure what. Hence, I really appreciate the story since it guides you in a way.
Aug 16
10:05 PM
Brian C.
MTVernon has the floor
MTVERNON
I wiped the crew. I find it interesting that [whoever it was, sorry] "didn't feel right doing that as a player." I felt obligated. Maybe that's a consequence of the way games have taught me to play: there are rewards all over the place, so leave no stone unturned. I'm still moments from finishing the game, though. It's possible I'm going to regret my decision. (PS - Don't worry about spoiling anything...)
Brian C.
ataomicvege has the floor
Atomicvege
In response to Ian: but argument aside, tetris doesn't have an obvious narrative implied by the designer. Mr. Robot does have such a narrative, but in that game particularly i found it was the story pushing me through, and the rooms that made great use of the puzzle mechanics of the game were far and few between, at leat for my liking
Brian C.
Ian has the floor
Ian B.
So, here's a maybe strange question that follows these good responses: how much story do you think is needed or useful to contextualize the meaning of the puzzles? For example: structurally, poems are much more like puzzles than prose is — do you think a more abstract narrative would have been more or less convincing in this case?
Brian C.
baseballt682 has the floor
tyler-LORDofDANCE
I don't think that the puzzles were meant to symbolize anything. They were just a means to deliver the story and to provide gameplay. Personally, I was extremely disappointed by the story. I thought there was a chance for a great one, but the opportunity was lost.
Brian C.
Interesting point Ian. This all goes back to the basic argument against deconstructionism, which seems to imply that it doesn't matter what the creator of the work had in mind when the wrote the book, the song, the video game, all that matters is what the user or reader or the listener gets out of it.
Brian C.
Putting aside that issue for a moment. What did everyone think of the game as a whole? Was it fun? Was it thought provoking? Was it both? Was it neither?
Brian C.
ian has the floor
Ian B.
So, here's a maybe strange question that follows these good responses: how much story do you think is needed or useful to contextualize the meaning of the puzzles? For example: structurally, poems are much more like puzzles than prose is — do you think a more abstract narrative would have been more or less convincing in this case?
Brian C.
baseballt682 has the floor
tyler-LORDofDANCE
I don't think that the puzzles were meant to symbolize anything. They were just a means to deliver the story and to provide gameplay. Personally, I was extremely disappointed by the story. I thought there was a chance for a great one, but the opportunity was lost.
Brian C.
Interesting point Ian. This all goes back to the basic argument against deconstructionism, which seems to imply that it doesn't matter what the creator of the work had in mind when the wrote the book, the song, the video game, all that matters is what the user or reader or the listener gets out of it.
rian C.
Putting aside that issue for a moment. What did everyone think of the game as a whole? Was it fun? Was it thought provoking? Was it both? Was it neither?
Brian C.
ian has the floor
Ian B.
Brian opened the door for us to get philosophical here. A lot of folks thing that deconstruction means that things can have any meaning we want, but the practice is really about the idea that meaning escapes its origins and integrates into new contexts in ways a creator could never anticipate or expect. So we can find new meaning in works, but those meanings are still emanating from the actual text — or in this case mechanics — that the creator fashioned.
Brian C.
So the creation is greater than the creator? (Or worse.)
Ian B.
Well, here's something to think about:
Ian B.
What does moving blocks around mean anyway?
Brian C.
Man's constant struggle with nature, himself. A reference to Sisyphus?
Brian C.
Floatingworld has the floor
FloatingWorld
Well for one, its monotonous. I imagine that you could strike a correlation between the robot's original reason for being created, without a true purpose. I would have to go out there and say that it wasn't moonpod's intention for this correlation to be made. Regardless, perhaps the entrance of the rpg element is symbolic of the robot's rise into some kind of meaning, a break from the monotony you could say?
Brian C.
atomicvege has the floor
Atomicvege
i have 2 comments, both for Ian.
Atomicvege
One is on the topic a little while ago of narrative
Atomicvege
it's that problem of the purpose of narrative of games isn't it. I just finished a paper on game and narrative and found that while its purpose is to push you through longer games, it is very easy for the story to overshadow the gameplay. I don't believe Mr. Robot had its gameplay overshadowed.
Dilan M.
The manipulation of our lives by some unknown source that has a greater plan intended. Or maybe the subjugation of supposedly lesser objects for the good of one overarching power, something which was happening to the robots.
Atomicvege
the other is in response to the blocks question
Atomicvege
Is the question in context of the game Mr. Robot or as a game mechanic?
Aug 16
Brian C.
ownageof night has the floor
datafox
I felt the game was ok. It had fun fighting aspects and some puzzles were novel but I was frustrated by the use of an isometric view point and jumping puzzles.
Brian C.
shaunomacx has the floor
datafox
With respect to moving blocks, it teaches you manual labor sucks no matter if you are in real life or on the computer.
shaunomacx
As a gamer, I'm curious to what was the intention with this title? Aside from recoup costs and turn a profit of course. People talk about EA throwing out the same stuff every year and not enough original IP just to keep the money flowing but as a relatively unknown developer what do you think the main and primary goal with Mr. Robot was? A question really moreso about the mindset of developers of original products in that there must be some sort of logical decision to make Mr Robot the way they did knowing or hoping rather that it would have had some sort of effect on the end user or result for the team who made it.
Brian C.
SemperDemens has the floor
Dilan M.
Sorry for putting this in earlier, (and SemperDemens is me so I am not going out of place again) but to me the moving blocks could mean: 1. The manipulation of our lives by some unknown source that has a greater plan intended. 2. the subjugation of supposedly lesser objects for the good of one overarching power, which is exactly what people are doing to robots.
Aug 16
10:25 PM
Brian C.
tyler-LORDofDANCE has the floor
tyler-LORDofDANCE
ok, I'm going to have some fun here. Asimov seems to rise in status and gain respect as the game goes on. This is to show the American Dream, and that with enough hard work anything is possible. The pushing of blocks is to symbolize the monotony of an everyday life and, as FloatingWorld stated, the RPG elements show the breaking of that monotony.
Brian C.
OK, we're about to run out of time. Let's hope back to the most important question: Was it worth it? Knowing what you know now do you think that you'd play Mr. Robot again?
tyler-LORDofDANCE has the floor
tyler-LORDofDANCE
Definitely. The first part was a little off putting, but the overall value of the game was great. For $15 dollars that is.
Brian C.
NYLatenite has the floor
NYLatenite
That's a negative - when I look at the time it took to finish the game, I think of all the other truly great titles I could have played. While it was a nice change of pace to try a game I normally would have overlooked, and the questions the game raised certainly are worthwhile, towards the end the gameplay (especially the JRPG style battles) had become so repetitive, all I wanted to do was get it over with.
Brian C.
SemperDemens has the floor
Dilan M.
No, for me, the story was left too unresolved. I wouldn't want to go through all the trouble again to be unsatisfied at the end. Especially since it was the story at the beginning that pushed me to beat the game, but now I know what happens, it is all sorta blah. And the platforming, puzzle, and rpg elements were just too repetitive and unoriginal for another play.
Brian C.
atomicvegetable has the floor
Aug 16
10:30 PM
JCtheMC
Are you still talking about Mr. Robot Dilan?
Atomicvege
there is a small urge to see what happens when you wipe the crew, but the gameplay frustrated me too much to make it worth my while. That being said, the length of the game and the discussion it caused made me not regret the purchase price.
Brian C.
I personally think it was worth it, not because the game was exceptionally good, but because it did provide a change of pace and I think buried down in the middle of a game that certainly has some flaws (I hate that static isometric view) I think there was a bit of chewy goodness.
Brian C.
FloatingWorld has the floor
oatingWorld
no, I wouldn't play it again, but I'd have to disagree Brian. I actually thought the isometric view was refreshing. Everything has a dynamic camera nowadays. Even though it was a pain when you were behind things, I liked that it kept the game simple. But I wouldn't play through again, because there wouldn't really be any other outcome
Brian C.
jpnance has the floor
jpnance
Although I thought the RPG segments were largely unbearable and they felt tacked on for the sake of having a little bit of everything, the platforming and puzzling really was a whole mess of fun once I got acquainted with the controls. I doubt I would play Mr. Robot again, but I would give a look to a game which borrowed the platforming/puzzling, dropped the RPG elements, and lasted a good 15-20 hours.
Aug 16
10:35 PM
Brian C.
shaunomacx has the floor
shaunomacx
I think the best thing at the minute would be to take all the feedback from the community and by extension and perhaps make a more expanded version of the game. For the price it certainly was worth the cash from the general consensus of the people who have took part in the discussion. If the title could resolve some issues such as viewpoint and length it took to achieve some tasks then in the future I think it would be worth a revisit as maybe an xbox live arcade/arcade for windows title albeit one slightly more polished. Refine Refine Refine.
shaunomacx
"and by extension these discussions" i meant to state
Brian C.
Alright folks I think we're out of time. Thanks again for joining us for The Game Club Beta. The real question is, does this format work and do you enjoy Game Club?
Brian C.
feel free to talk now, btb
FloatingWorld
yes
FloatingWorld
very much so
FloatingWorld
I had my wife log on for my, to make sure I had a spot when I got home from work
FloatingWorld
er my=me
MTVERNON
I'd definitely play more Mr. Robot. If anyone's tried the level editor, lemme know.
Brian C.
lol
Atomicvege
i liked the discussion, and the ability to talk to guests who are in the industry in some way is great
shaunomacx
i think so, as long as the people who join while the chat is in progress dont interrupt with "hi, hows u everyone" etc
jpnance
yeah, i thought it worked pretty well
jpnance
if anything, the discussions are too short
ezrid
I was just watching, but it was entertaining enough that i'd love to be in on this next time. Bioshock, maybe?
jpnance
but i know we all "have lives"
MTVERNON
yeah, i had a great time with this stuff.
Dilan M.
indeed, works well
Atomicvege
the campfire discussion needs refining i believe (or at least the transcript on the page) :)
shaunomacx
i personally think it should be titles which we otherwise wouldnt play
brandon
yea, i definitely dig the concept.
Brian C.
my concern about doing a modern game is twofold
MTVERNON
i ordered pizza to the hotel room tonight so that i could be here
tyler-LORDofDANCE
i agree
jpnance
yeah, i completely agree
FloatingWorld
i want to stress like i have, multiplatform games are the best idea...because not everyone owns every single console
Dilan M.
is beyond good and evil the next game?
Brian C.
first i want to make this as accessible as possible, so multiplatform and cheap titles, second I dont want anyone ever concerned about advertising
Brian C.
somethign i have no control over
shaunomacx
true i had to install Windows on my Mac
tyler-LORDofDANCE
i think im going to skip the next game club. give others a shot
Brian C.
and I'd hate to do a current game and see advertising pop up on the site
ezrid
Oh, good points all around. Besides, I doubt I'm going to stop playing bioshock at any point to talk...
CheapyD
has entered the room
MTVERNON
no kidding.
MTVERNON
hmmm
Brian C.
CHEAPY!
tyler-LORDofDANCE
oh just rub it int
CheapyD
whats up guys
Brian C.
i think the next club will have to be somethign shortish
brandon
yo
shaunomacx
maybe a discussion on the relevance of the likes of Quake 3 and its place in modern gaming next time?
Atomicvege
if we're discussing some titles as art, or at least defining titles in the medium, it's enevitable that by avoiding major titles, even exclusives, we might hinder ourselves in the future... but then accessibility goes out the window =/
shaunomacx
CheapyD :D
MTVERNON
hey Cheapy.
Brian C.
bk i have to squeeze it in between leipzig and TGS
NYLatenite
The format works well - I originally expected the thing to turn out like the /ooc channel in a mmog pickup raid, but everyone actually followed the rules (must be that ginat banhammer behind your back) - I think one thing you may want to consider though is possibly talking to the developers of the next title to get some ideas on what to expect so people can perhaps have questions and comments ready for the next meeting -this way there's less of a chance of getting sidetracked and there's hopefully more time to actually discuss things
FloatingWorld
any ideas brian?
tyler-LORDofDANCE
I just want to add that Ian's ideas made my brain explode.
Ian B.
that's my job :)
brandon
yea short can be good for those who werent able to keep thru a 3-parter
CheapyD
looks like i missed most of the fun
jpnance
yeah, for the future, i would love to be able to see what the developers themselves have to say
bashcraft
cheapy, you LATE
Brian C.
yeah, sorry
ezrid
Question: Is the chat interface a bit slow for anyone else?
datafox
I think I would prefer IRC with voicing.
Aug 16
10:40 PM
Brian C.
thats another issue. People in other countries are sort of screwed
jpnance
or maybe how the developers respond to the criticism
shaunomacx
its 3.40am for me!
FloatingWorld
hes so cheap, he shows up late so he doesn't have to pay a fee at the door.
Brian C.
yeah, i need to look into IRC for the next one
Brian C.
lol
Brian C.
good lord
datafox
Yea I think it was slow too.
jpnance
i mean, you can't do anything about our international friends
brandon
can any other kotaku editors host gameclubs in other timezones ;)
Atomicvege
actually yeah, if the discussion could have more of a question/answer flow, with questions prepared ahead of time, it might work... but that limits back and forth on discussion. It's tricky
ezrid
Definitely.
tyler-LORDofDANCE
I wonder if splitting up into different groups would work.
jpnance
i wish i didn't have to wake up at 4 in the morning to watch the finals of the australian open, but i do
ezrid
IRC, or something not slowish...
Brian C.
thats an idea
shaunomacx
nope tyler def not
tyler-LORDofDANCE
Each editor takes a group of 10-15
datafox
That would be interesting to see it done that way.
shaunomacx
thats a better explanation dude :)
tyler-LORDofDANCE
lol
Brian C.
any suggestions for the next club?
Brian C.
how long is beyond good and evil?
datafox
For a game?
jpnance
is BG&E not definitely the next game?
Brian C.
or :) God Hand
Atomicvege
i think you should definitely give irc a go
Dilan M.
maybe we could have breaks inbetween games
Dilan M.
to discuss some game industry theme
shaunomacx
discuss violence in games? who knows maybe you can get some anti gaming people in a chat brian?
ezrid
BG&E... I've been meaning to play that.
datafox
That sounds fun.
Atomicvege
with voicing, you wouldn't have to keep repeating yourself about the rules
MTVERNON
wow. god hand would be fun
shaunomacx
like you know who...
JCtheMC
has left the room
Brian C.
well we wont have another game until i get back from leipzig
tyler-LORDofDANCE
Anti-game people don't like reason and sense
CheapyD
screw JT
Brian C.
so the first week in september
datafox
No Tetris?
NYLatenite
maybe something without a specific end but more of an experience - something where even if you couldn't finish it, you could still discuss it's finer points - like an arcadish title
FloatingWorld
no GC for 2 weeks?
Atomicvege
BG&E and Godhand, both fine titles :)
Brian C.
i actually have an idea about a Kotaku Town Hall
tyler-LORDofDANCE
pac-man?
Brian C.
but that's for down the line
Brian C.
;)
Atomicvege
maybe something a little older
MTVERNON
huh. like a forum you mean?
Brian C.
sorta
CheapyD
pac-man championship edition
shaunomacx
Thats a good break anyway, so we can hold a discussion on the I <3 Kotaku facebook page about the next one
CmdrKeen
has entered the room
Brian C.
with a guess speaker
NYLatenite
Pac-Man CE perhaps, but only if Namco fulfills my dream and actually removes the time :)
Atomicvege
how about Super Metroid? :)
NYLatenite
timer too
CheapyD
ah, the timer is the best part
MTVERNON
yeah; the guest thing has been really coll
FloatingWorld
yeah super metroid would be awesome
MTVERNON
cool
shaunomacx
we could always discuss the decline of Arcade gaming
Brian C.
id like to sort of rotate between retail/indie and modern and retro
datafox
I think games that take under 15 hours might be best since it could be broken up in an easier manner.
brandon
yea—except a lot of people have played it to death
brandon
and have well formed opinions
CheapyD
you can't remove the talking pie, the pie is the heart
Ginko
has entered the room
Brian C.
yeah, part of the idea of this is the concept of mutual discovery
Atomicvege
yeah... the last thing you need in a games discussion is "thing game has no flaws! you are stupid! lol".... but with worse typing skills =/
FloatingWorld
pyschonauts?
MTVERNON
i'd suggest a running list of upcoming titles (3-5 items long)
Brian C.
that we're experiencing the game together, in a sense
Brian C.
like those old NBC commercials
MTVERNON
people would use it to get the jump on what's next

The major features of Frontlines, according to the website, are: Frontline System - a "focused combat" system that "inherently promotes teamwork"; an Open World Environment (you already know what that means); Next-Gen Firepower (w00t!); Customizable Soldiers ("character choices, weapon load-out, and role specialization"); and Advanced Team Play (everyone needs multiplayer). Anything here deal with peak oil? Not so much. I do find myself wondering, though, where all the fuel for so many motorized war vehicles comes from? Maybe the game will clarify that with an in-world fiction. Then again, maybe it won't.

I suppose fully integrating the concept of an oil crisis wouldn't make the game so fun ('Sorry, soldier, you're over your fuel limit for the week and will have to stay back at base playing tiddlywinks'), on the other hand - why bother with the premise at all? The mainstream may turn their noses up at the idea of 'serious games,' but there has to be some incentive for companies to at least try and pretend they're covering some serious topics in a meaningful (uh, in name at least) manner.

Skinning Politics [Water Cooler Games]

Watch the show tonight at 11:30 p.m. on Comedy Central if you want to see how he does... I'm sure well since he will be talking about his new book, Persuasive Games: The Expressive Power of Video Games, and, I'm sure, his gig with the New York Times which I find endlessly fascinating (Hey, it finally gives me a topic I can discuss with those non-gamers out there that I frequently bump into.)

Persuasive Games: Designing For Tragedy [Gamasutra]

It's a question that's been asked a million times and has sparked endless debate with the likes of Roger Ebert, who in my opinion has no room to talk about art after the travesty that is Beyond The Valley of the Dolls. Gamasutra writer Brian Ochalla (who is a terrific interviewer) rolls the count over to a million and one by posing this question again in his most recent feature story. The difference in this article, however, is that Brian goes right to the heart of the matter and interviews such industry giants as Ian Bogost, Tim Shafer and Peter Molyneux. And while all those interviewed initially met the question with much "here we go again" eye rolling, they do admit to the subjects pertinence to the future of gaming. It's a great read and well worth the time to check out.

Personally, I'm still on the fence about the whole subject. There are certainly plenty of games that have incredible art in them, but whether or not the game itself can be considered art is, as all things like it, in the eye of the beholder. Flynn De Marco

Are Games Art? (Here We Go Again...) [Gamasutra]

Ian Bogost writes that his studio, Persuasive Games, just released their latest newsgame, Bacteria Salad.

In Bacteria Salad you have to harvest mass amounts of cheap produce and sell it for as much profit as possible. As you run your agribusiness you have to look out for floods, animal waste and agroterrorists. Ian says they game, which is published by Addicting Games and Shockwave.com, does have some strategy built into it around the question of which is safer, small family farms or big industrial ones. Oh and there's tons of shit, so now you have to go play it. Brian Crecente

Persuasive Games Releases The Arcade Wire: Bacteria Salad [Watercooler Games]

I also managed to squeeze a few minutes out of Ian Bogost, of Watercooler Games, to talk about the game's connection to the shooting. Brian Crecente

Q: What was your reaction to the news that the gunman in Canada liked to play the Columbine game?

A: A tragedy like this saddens and disturbs us all. Like most people who learned about it, my thoughts were and remain with the victims and their families. It was clear from the start that the media would latch onto the games Gill played, rather than the problems that drove him to this disturbing act.

Q: Do you think this "proves" that the game shouldn't have been made?

A: Gill was clearly a disturbed man. Should "Braveheart" not have been made because Gill also watched it? The tragedy here lies in the unfortunate, sad, unhappy life of this man, not in something inherent to the media he consumed.

Q: In retrospect, do you think that the game should have been made differntly or perhaps come with some sort of notice or paper that explained the issues the game's creator was trying to raise?

A: The creator did write an artist's statement posted on his website that explained his reasons for making the game, but like any artifact those who encounter it can interpret it as they wish. Games are art, and art can be dangerous. We can't put disclaimers on our culture, but we can offer support to our friends and family in need of it. Clearly Gill needed help he did not get.

The New York TImes' Rob Walker put together a very interesting story that looks at subversive, anti-advergames. Yes, I know, that doesn't sound like that could be interesting, but Walker found a law professor who is writing a paper about people who subvert the messages of advertising to make them into negative messages. Fordham University law professor Sonia Katyal calls it semiotic disobedience.

As a term and a concept, semiotic disobedience is a riff on two earlier ideas. One, of course, is civil disobedience. The other is "semiotic democracy," a coinage of John Fiske, a media scholar whose 1987 book "Television Culture" described the ways in which audiences create their own interpretations of mass entertainment. Katyal's combination, then, refers to the reinvention or subversion of logos and other symbols of commercial persuasion as part of a battle to redefine their meaning in ways that are frankly oppositional. Her research, she told me, evolved out of her interest in the way certain artists alter billboards with antibrand or anticapitalist messages. While this practice (variously referred to as brandalism, subvertising, culture jamming, adbusting, etc.) has gone on for years, it's often dismissed as a nuisance, agitprop or, of course, a crime.

While Katyal's upcoming paper doesn't address video games, Walker does a good job of putting her ideas to work in explaining games like Ian Bogost's Disaffected. Brian Crecente

Gaming the System [NYT]

I just finished up a story for the Rocky about upcoming computer game Left Behind: Eternal Forces and how it fits into the whole Agenda Gaming movement.

Essentially, the game sort of falls in the grey area between game for fun and games that are designed to push an agenda. That's because while it does profess to have an ideology that it is pushing, it doesn't really go far enough to push it. For instance, the prayer in the game, which revive units' flagging "spirit", is essentially generic. Georgia Tech Prof. Ian Bogost explains it best:

"It could be Islamic or Judaic," he said. "Why didn't they make a game where you live that life (of an unbeliever) and then you discover at the Rapture what side you end up on? "The fear that I have is that they are confused about whether they are making a game about this perspective or if it's a game with a Christian skin." ... "My guess is that they didn't want to go over the top with the religion for fear people would reject the game," he said. "If there is an agenda piece inside the game it's the idea of spirit and the power of prayer. The mechanics of the game are trying to make an argument about the way the world works."

To make matters more complicated, the people behind the game are sort of backing away from classifying the game as a true agenda title.

"Do we have a full-blown political agenda? No. What we are really trying to do is make a fun game," said Left Behind Games associate producer Greg Bauman. "We are a for-profit company, but we have a ministry heart."

But no matter how you slice it, the game will likely be one of the first major computer or video game designed to push a specific agenda and whether you agree with the agenda or not, it can't help but lend some credibility to computer and video games as legitimate means of communicating about important issues. Brian Crecente

Video Game Evangalism [Rocky Mountain News]

Nerve put together a fun set of Q&As about sex, violence and the future of video games featuring a panel of seven well known gaming experts.

The panelists are Steven Johnson, Brenda Brathwaite, Ian Bogost, Eric Zimmerman, Henry Jenkins, Rob Levine and Katie Salen.

There are five questions that the group will discuss and it looks like that while the Qs are already up on the site, the As will be coming over the week. The first discussion is already there for all to read.

A taste of the goodness:

Question 1: Is the sexual and violent content of video games a legitimate social concern? Or are Hillary Clinton et. al. criticizing video games for easy political points? And why is there so much more violence than sex in games, anyway?

Henry Jenkins III
First, lets put the question in some historical perspective. As we look across the history of popular culture and new media in the twentieth century, we see the same pattern recurring: each new medium is embraced by young people who are seeking out experiences which they can call uniquely their own and are often drawn towards material which shocks and titilates; parents and adults express a growing dismay because this medium was not part of their own childhood experience and they do not know how to protect their young; some kind of incident occurs which can be loosely tied to the emerging medium and we enter an era of moral panic during which people seek to "do something even if it is wrong" and end up doing the wrong things; the medium withstands a storm of controversy and attempts at regulation which go counter this country's stated support for free expression. At the end of the cycle, the generation which grew up with this medium ends up looking back nostalgically at their misbegotted youths and take as given the place of that form of popular culture as the standard against which new media experiences will be judged and this cycle starts all over again.

Did I ever tell you Jenkins is my hero?

Voicebox [Nerve]