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Denver, 1:14 AM
Sat Dec 19
65 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/09/09
HOWEVER....
this is one of the most poorly designed surveys I've ever seen. What kind of survey these days only lets you pick one choice for race? How is "casual" vs. "hardcore" the exact same axis as how much "experience" you have with games? I know people who have been playing casual games, or the closest equivalent thereof, for longer than a lot of noobish hardcore gamers have been alive. I could go on complaining, but there's no point... this is just a pretty amateurish effort at a survey. I know it's done by a student, but c'mon, look at some good examples first.
10/08/09
Notice I separated relationships from sexuality. Being gay is not just reduced to sex. Believe it or not, sexual orientation manifests itself in daily life outside of the bedroom. There are gay people in relationships, even families! Who'd've thunk it?! There's even something called romance, which need not be sexual. Please don't try to argue that games don't have romances.
I personally do want developers to cater to me in addition to the minimum of recognizing that homosexuality exists. It is honestly getting hard to suspend my disbelief as I play all these games where it just so happens that none of the hundreds of characters we see are gay in any recognizable non-stereotypical way. And you know what? I would like to be catered to occasionally. I do want some hot man-action. I don't think that's too much to ask for, because hetero-action is in a ton of games.
But I'm sorry, that's just not marketable. What a fucking disappointment. Forget art, the games industry always comes down to business.
10/08/09
10/08/09
(Hell, and I'm straight.)
10/08/09
I do not feel that a gay NPC would be relevant to any storyline unless the story is somehow sexually oriented.
What are they supposed to say? "Oh hi, I'm gay."? I don't see how it would be any more relevant than something like "Oh hi, I'm still working on my invention to turn boiled eggs raw again!"
The latter isn't any more productive, but at least it's entertaining.
10/08/09
10/08/09
It's not difficult to setup a household of of a same-sex couple without them having to explicitly say that they're gay.. There are -tons- of NPC households in RPG's with a mom, dad, and kids in them.. would it really be that weird to have two dads in one home or two moms in another? Or have a same-sex couple sitting on a bench somewhere in town that are cuddled up and which shoo you away if you try to talk to them? This is already done in many RPG's for straight couples, so why not gay?
It doesn't have to be as complicated as or awkward as you make it sound.. And it doesn't need to be 'relevantly gay' either - the point isn't to promote gays so much as it is to acknowledge they exist! People tend to forget that "Gayness" isn't something new to our culture, it goes back to the early years of our history.. In that sense, why would we never see them in a game where we usually explore the whole world or an entire country (regardless of time period) therein of it? It's only realistic.. and at worst it only adds more depth to the world itself..
10/08/09
I really like games that give you the choice, and then respect that choice in subtle ways. Bully, Fable 2, and others are all great examples of this. Having in-game gay characters, however temporary, makes me feel recognized. Whether it be in Indigo Prophecy, Persona, Omikron (Bowie's character is not exactly subtle in his gender queerness), etc.
Every time there is a game coming out that is very story/character-driven, I ask other players before I buy it to see if it has any gay characters. If it doesn't, I will sometimes pass. (I still haven't played Uncharted, for instance.)
I'm sincerely hoping that Heavy Rain, Brutal Legend, Uncharted 2, or the next season from Telltale includes some kind of inclusion of non-stereotypical queer characters or culture. I've used Twitter, blogs comments, Facebook messages, and I still haven't gotten any comment from ANY of those developers on this question.
The lack of answers makes me sadder than the lack of inclusion.
10/08/09
We're not fully accepted yet, so our inclusion in media is often poorly executed when it very rarely -is- there at all.. It's sad, but that's probably all there is to it.
Mind you, we should still push for better representation in games.. I very much agree with how you feel, it's nice to be recognized in a game and have the choice of reflecting yourself onto the leading character of whatever it is you're playing.. or otherwise, it's just plain nice to have the choice at all, as more options are never a bad thing in a game. But at the same time.. a game should not be focused on these things. A game market intended to cater to gays is just as asinine as the pony games are for girls.. We don't need our own games, we just need to be acknowledged in the current media a bit better..
At least for now we have a few good games that don't ignore us, and that's a step in the right direction..
10/08/09
And why would you? Why would anyone?
So gay people are attracted to people of the same sex... Unless we're talking about dating sims here, I don't see how this would be relevant to videogames. Do gay people only watch gay movies, read gay books and listen to gay music?
Sometimes it seems as if Americans have some sort of obsession with categorizing every minority on the planet. Even if it is with the best intentions sometimes (like here).
10/08/09
10/08/09
I mean cuz otherwise...
So people not from America have opinions just like those who are from America. I don't see how this makes a blanket statement about Americans relevant. Do people outside of America never make mistakes, try too hard to do the right thing or have pride justified or not in their own Country's efforts?
Sometimes it seems as if people who live outside of America have some sort of obsession with labeling every comment or action made by even one single person as the opinion of or having the support of the entire nation of the U.S (like here).
Not trying to attack you and I'm sure you had no malicious intent. Still, please don't presume to know anything at all about 99% of any nation's citizens based solely on popular opinion, the word on the street, or what they say on television.
10/08/09
In short: No harm was intended with my comment.
10/08/09
A lot of games don't need this kind of representation to them, so yea.. to some degree it is true that it isn't that big of a deal. But what about all the big RPG's out there? Those games where you travel the whole freaking world and never once encounter a single person who isn't 110% straight? Isn't it a little odd to anyone that we're not even considered enough to be among the standard no-name NPC's? Likewise, we see so many androgynous boyish heroes with high pitched voices and bigass swords, and who do they always end up with? The airheaded princess or damsel in distress.. Why can't we have a leading character like that whom ends up with someone of the same gender? Wouldn't it make more sense anyway for an androgynous leading character to be gay than straight anyway? (I don't know too many straight guys that go for that kind of look, or are even remotely comfortable with it.)
This is one of the reasons I loved Persona 2: Innocent Sin.. The main character is actually given a choice of who he falls in love with, and the choice includes someone from both genders.. ultimately the decision doesn't matter, or even change much of anything.. But the choice is THERE, and I appreciated that. The reaction from making that choice from your other party members is quite realistic too - they act shocked, but are supportive of it as any good friend would be. Gameplay-wise very little changes.. You're granted a special "contact" ability with whomever you fall in love with, and that's about it. It is amusing (and fairly accurate) how the gay contact works too, the reaction from enemies varies wildly as one would expect. (From positive to negative results..)
So.. I think more representation in story-heavy games (especially involving the leading character) would be a GREAT thing.. but basing a game solely around our orientation? That's just silly..
10/08/09
Just kidding. It is a little odd that there are never any gay characters in any games, at least not any openly gay ones. I mean, there is that one dude at the Wall Market in FF7. But he's not so much gay as he is fucking creepy.
There probably aren't a lot of gay characters for the same reason everybody is up in arms about the stupid Washington DC thing in Modern Warfare 2. It makes them uncomfortable. It's ridiculous, but it's the way people are. I'm pretty sure in time people will lighten up and pull their heads out of their asses and it will no longer be a big deal. I think it's just a waiting game.
10/08/09
I mean that game was a great example of how to do it too.. The character wasn't obviously swinging one way or the other, and the game purposely makes it ambiguous and leaves the entire thing up to the players interpretation. I think that's perfect.. It adds a little extra depth to the character and allows you to make the decision you're most comfortable with or what you feel best represents you and the character you're playing.
I don't like being forced into being straight in every game I play - not that it really nags at me either though.. it's just kind of eh to me to constantly have to woo over the girl and build a relationship with her when it's just overly transparent to the degree that I probably wouldn't date even if I -was- straight.. For the same reason, I don't think gay stuff should be forced either, it should always be left as a choice of the player or something in the background. (There are so many optional and worthless NPC's in most RPG's that I don't see the big deal in a few of them being a bit more diverse in their nature..)
And as far as that FFVII character went.. that was just creepy more than gay, yea. FFVII is a good example of poor representation though, as you'll note Barret is the -only- black guy in the whole world and acts as a parallel to Mr. T.. If that's really the best they can do, then yea, maybe it's better they don't bother at all.. But then I remember Persona 2 again, and think about how easy it is to implement without being obtrusive or blatant or forced.. and I wonder again why this is so hard for some to do in other games.
I guess perhaps we aren't ready for it, you might be right. While it's already been proven a tasteful implementation of two guys can work, I'll admit that two girls kind of scares me.. I fear it would only degenerate into some heterosexual fantasy of girl-on-girl action with the way women are already poorly portrayed in games today.. And that's just something I do not want to see happen.. Maybe in time things will work itself out, or so I can hope anyway..
10/08/09
10/08/09
10/08/09
10/08/09
Not that I play a game for the sexual scenes, but to exclude it after you had it in previous games only to add a Lesbian scene because Heterosexual males can dig that? Now that sounds a bit strange. :D.
If you don't like it, just don't hit on that guy haha.
But outside of equal treatment, I don't want games to change in anyway. Infact they are fine as they are.
10/08/09
I've struggled with this dilemma as a gay man myself - a distaste for feeling pandered to combined with not needing gay characters to relate to a story - but ultimately, there's no reason homosexual (or bisexual, or asexual, et cetera) themes and characters shouldn't be given a higher visability in the industry.
For one thing, to go back to what I said about not needing gay characters to relate to a story: why shouldn't the opposite be true? Why can't straight men relate to gay characters? Assuming they're fully fleshed-out characters and not stereotypes restricted to nothing but their sexuality, ultimately we're no different. We're just people with the same goals, feelings, and capacity for either greatness or lameness.
Additionally, it's easy to forget this if you're not in a minority - even I tend to forget it, since I've moved beyond this as I've grown up - but a positive portrayal of a gay character can mean a great deal to a young guy or girl questioning their sexuality. Nevermind video games, there's still a lack of gay role models in all media. It's changed a lot, but not enough to wash out the taste of what came before it, really not all that long ago, where being gay in a film (for example) was at best a death sentence. Usually not without having been a lecherous, despicable villain to begin with. (I'm looking at you, Hays Code.)
And beyond all that, there's a simple reason why it's a good thing: storytelling in games could use improvement across the board. Nuanced plot, characters, themes.. how many times can we see characters lifted straight out of the Gears of War mold? I don't mean that as a knock against that franchise, for which it works within the context in which it's presented; but game developers could stand to broaden their concepts to eschew falling into the same patterns, the same accepted tropes, and produce works which explore different ideas.
So, I guess my point is.. why shouldn't games be made with a potential gay audience in mind? Not necessarily targeted to them, but at least accommodating of them.
10/08/09
Take a game like Harvest Moon. You make a lot of choices in the game, including who you want as your beloved husband or wife... provided your character is the opposite sex. Why is there such a restriction? Taking away choice from the player is just frustrating.
Then you have games like Fable 2, Bully, and The Sims. It's a bit empowering to know that you can build such relationships. It's not imposing; no one is forced to take part in such things, but knowing that you can brings a sort of comfort. It's like your cell phone's camera. You might never use it, but it's nice to know you can in case you change your mind.
Games don't have to cater towards homosexuals, the same way games don't have to cater towards girl gamers. We don't need the token homosexual the same way we don't need a token black guy.
In fact, the existence of such a thing feels more insulting then leaving it out altogether. If it suits the game, if it suits the story, then go with it. But forcing such content into any form of media is awkward.
10/08/09
10/08/09
More homosexual representation in story-based games, not simply as an option in games like the Sims or Fable would be nice, but not necessary.
10/08/09
On the other hand, in things like shooters and platformers and other games that aren't really plot-driven, I find no need for gay content. For those kinds of games, the important thing is having a well-made, fun-to-play title.
Ideally, games could have gay content alongside straight content in places where it makes sense, just as a normal thing and not like it's a big deal or anything. We're not there yet, but maybe someday we will be.
10/08/09
You can start by stop calling them 'gaymers.' And I would assume what non-hetero gamers want out of their games is just as varied as what hetero gamers want out of their games. I find the entire premise of the survey offensive and ignorant.