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Denver, 4:52 AM
Wed Nov 25
53 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/12/09
I was so disappointed when they showed bikes for GTHD and then there was nothing in GT5P... it's so fun running a ZX-10R around the Nurburgring Nordschleife. #gt5
11/12/09
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As for DLC, I have a suspicion we'll see next to nothing. They'll humor us with some holiday version of existing vehicles and that's about it. Instead they'll hoard everything for GT6 which should be done in time for the PS4 Slim. It's either that or GT5 is only going to make available a percentage of the claimed 1000 cars and we'll have to pay for the keys to unlock everything already on the disc. They have to recoup their $60 million investment somehow. #gt5
11/12/09
Most racing/driving simulators that are exclusive have redeeming features that make it good for its fanbase and GT is usually quite good at that too.
You don't have to post something negative about GT5 each time there's a new post about it you know, Optimus Prime would be ashamed :P #gt5
11/12/09
The claim was made that the GT4 engine was completely scrapped for GT5 which I don't buy at all. It's an inefficient way to work. I'm sure they had to dump a lot for the sake of the PS2 to PS3 transition but otherwise the basic physics engine should be the same. And in fact, it does feel pretty much the same. Otherwise they went and scrapped the previous engine but then were still unable to properly handle collisions or rollovers?
I suspect most of the money spent went into modeling all those cars, not building the physics engine. Prologue has 60 cars and 6 tracks. GT5 has nearly 1000 cars and 20 distinct tracks. Given the mount of work Digital Polyphony has shown going into modeling each car and track that's where you're money is going and Prologue isn't going to be much help. And don't forget the features that have been added since Prologue.
I think the GT series is excellent. And they've certainly pioneered the driving game with huge car libraries. On the other hand, the GT series is a perfect example of diminishing returns. All this time and money spent and GT5 likely won't be much better than the competition. It will certainly be good, it had damn well be given everything that's gone into it, but I'm hard-pressed to see that all the effort expended was justified. Then there's the fact that Sony loves trumpeting this game as the ultimate in realism, and they can't get things like collisions right. But it doesn't end there, I've never found the handling characteristics to be totally convincing. Forza feels more convincing to me. And even better is the simulator Live for Speed; they've even modeled tire flex in that game. Unfortunately the graphics in that game are lacking and the car list is worse. Those are the two areas where GT5 will decisively beat the competition. #gt5
11/12/09
Getting back to what you've just said. I'm not entirely sure how they coded GT4 and if GT5 is coded differently. I mean for instance why Naughty Dog had to rebuild their entire engine from scratch was because they used to use LISP and believe me when I say this sometimes it is actually cost effective to build a new engine from scratch than to tweak it to a newer system. That would be far more time-consuming than to start fresh.
With that said, it is quite likely that they are using assets from the previous games and some codes but really I don't work there so I wouldn't know. I agree that basic physics engine could be the same. Or they might have begun with porting and then realized that it would be effective to just change most of it. It could explain why they took so long. Regardless I do feel that they must be getting some money from car companies for the idents. Car companies are notoriously lavish with their budgets for advertising (I know this from personal experience), if they see advertising through GT as good as regular advertising then they would've given them quite a large sum of money which also would've helped the budget. I doubt that they'd have to use the entire money to make a new ident when they have reusable assets and such in the game.
I wouldn't say about diminishing returns so strongly, I mean it's the fifth game in the series albeit the first for the current generation of consoles. There would be a strong reduction as people now see with the Guitar Hero Franchise (I think when I said it peaked with 4 someone argued but the sales of 5 show it did indeed peak with 4, granted that it's not been out long but the sales are definitely less in a week by week comparison in a few territories at the least) but considering this is the first one for the current generation there would also be a surge. It's very hard to say because of several factors. It will be less perhaps due to the userbase being smaller but also it could be higher if the userbase expands on the basis of the ip, plus I'm sure TV shows will promote this. Shows like Top Gear really do promote this game over any other and that gets a whole different audience into the game.
Handling I guess isn't totally convincing but to be very honest I've never felt a game's handling for cars to be that convincing even with a wheel and other peripherals. Motorbike games on the other hand yes. It's strange but perhaps something to do with perception of space maybe.
I will say however that both games have redeeming features to make them good simulators and enjoyable and believe that when the product is finally out we can truly judge how good it actually is. Till then we've just got GT5p and the words of people. #gt5
11/11/09
thanks Luke for being the voice of reason. #gt5
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If GT5 were released right now I would buy it, but I wouldn't be able to play it let alone enjoy it as it should. GoW3 and MAG in Q1, GT5 and WKC in the summer and Last Guardian and some other blockbusters in the Fall would be perfect. #granturismo5
11/09/09
But I digress, my bets are that they're working on pushing a huge marketing campaign over in NA and a smaller one here in Europe since it's always sold so well over here and getting preorder numbers up before launching during the summer. #granturismo5
11/09/09
Not to mention, there's also MLB 10 and Heavy Rain both slated to be out around the same time as well as big multiplat releases like FFXIII which would have already been released in Japan. I'm sure GT5 will do fine no matter what, but why cut into sales of your own games when you can just drop it in the summer months when there's nothing else to compete with? #granturismo5
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There's only so much RUF I can take -_- #granturismo5
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I can see delaying a shooter game because CoD:MW2 is coming out, but I can't see delaying a sim racer becuase an action game is coming out.
Marketing budgets are another thing entirely of course. But I would think Sony would spend alot on each of these games no matter when they came out.
Of course I'm not in marketing so you may be right. I've waited years for GT5, I can wait another 6 months. #granturismo5
11/09/09
11/09/09
They can also spread out the amount of money coming in and amount of shelf space they can get while spending less money on marketing all at once. If God of War 3 hits one quarter, then Gran Turismo the next quarter, that's two quarters with a high profile Sony release that are guaranteed to make a crap load of money.
In the spring you also have FFXIII launching in the States as well as Battlefield: Bad Company 2. Despite the genre differences, they're all competing for the same time and money. #granturismo5
11/09/09
11/09/09
I finally got to play Forza 3 this weekend and it makes me even more frustrated about the never-ending delays and overwrought nature of GT5.
GT5 may have the edge in graphics and detail, but Forza 3 is far and away the better game. More exhilarating to play, the cars sound better the pace is more exciting, like I imagine it would feel sitting in these cars and they handle more convincingly. Cars feel more distinct in their characteristics than they do in GT5. And when I hit another car they actually slide around, unlike GT5 where it feels like I'm bumping up against moving brick walls. And then Sony has the audacity to tout GT5 as some kind of pinnacle of realism in driving games.
I wouldn't buy an Xbox360 just for Forza 3 but I do wish I owned the game. And I wouldn't miss GT5 much at all. #granturismo5
11/09/09
11/09/09
And judging by gameplay clips of GT5 I see no fundamental difference from that to prologue. Watch the "car damage" video and you'll see how cars still look awkward when they bump into barriers.
Development has dragged on so long because of the sheer number of cars Digital Polyphony has decided they needed to render. I'm sure they've spent a lot of time on some periphery features but I don't think I'll be proven wrong about the core mechanics being largely unchanged. #granturismo5
11/09/09
But I'm sure they would have rather released prior to December than March in the US. What else is coming out around March that makes them pause? #granturismo5
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11/09/09
It would mostly be May -July I'm guessing. Not that they won't release it before but I think they'd want their new ips to have some breathing space (despite being totally different genres) and avoid intercompetition as well. #granturismo5
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Also consider the notion that any multi-platform owner, myself included, love racing in general. So I am more than happy to pick up both games and enjoy the variety that they offer.
So to answer your question, yes. #granturismo5
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I enjoy both series very much. However my preference is more for the GT franchise. Just keep in mind that when you start talking sales figures there are many variables to the numbers. For instance the GT series has been around far longer thus building upon it's reputation as a good racer. Let's not forget too that it was THE racing game on the original PS and PS2. Which were the (by far) dominating systems of past generations. #granturismo5
11/09/09
If I ended up getting an Xbox360 I'd get Forza3, without question. And despite owning a PS3 on principle I wouldn't get GT5.
If Forza were available for the PS3 Digital Polyphony sure as hell couldn't get away with this. GT5 sales would be completely decimated. #granturismo5