NFL 2k is solely missed. I haven't played a NFL football game since 2k5. Madden's exclusive NFL license is one of the worse things to happen to video games since the deal was made. It proves that EA has an inferior product and didn't like the competition.
I won't be playing an NFL title again until Visual Concepts gets the license back. To hell with madden. #sports
@Striderhayasa - Can we get some damn m/kb support?!: for a while, I was one of those people that didn't believe, but I played NFL 2K5 recently, and I was amazed at how much better the gameplay is than Madden.
Do people still update and download rosters for 2K5? I might go re-buy it, as I had Madden 10 and after playing it for two weeks returned it. It's a broken game. #sports
@casmith07: there was a friend of mine that kept up with the updated rosters but that was a couple of years ago. I don't know if he does it now. Check google. There might be someone around doing it. #sports
@Striderhayasa - Can we get some damn m/kb support?!: there's some kind of editor out there, but nothing terribly concrete...would love to see that game reconstructed. I think the NFL's exclusive license is close to being up with EA Sports too. #sports
I definitely agree. NFL 2k5 is my favorite sports game possibly of all time. It's just a shame that the force that is EA Sports basically canned this franchise. Such a shame.
There needs to be some form of anti-trust action taken for this sort of stuff, lol. #sports
@P3nnst8r: The logical follow-up to that is "everyone should be allowed to make Batman movies"... I'm generally a super-liberal, anti-business pro-regulatory-body commie, but I'm not convinced that preventing IP holders from signing exclusive agreements is a solution to any pressing problem.
Still, I understand your frustration with a predatory business deal that has diminished the quality and quantity of selection. #sports
@Brett Benedict: Well, the big thing that hurt 2K5's gameplay was running with the QB was too effective, even with a spy put on him. I'm sure 2K6 would had fixed that one nagging issue. Too bad Visual Concepts never got the chance. :^( #sports
I think the most analogous situation to a sports game winning a GOTY award would be a documentary winning the Oscar for best picture. There's no reason a documentary couldn't win best picture; they're certainly not barred from the category. But the form just isn't one that critics and voters consider appropriate for an overall "best of" category.
And I think you're right, Owen, in that it has something to do with storytelling-- we consider that an essential criterion for a game that could win GOTY. Sports games simply don't tell stories; they create structures in which the gamer can tell a story. That, of course, brings us back to NFL 2k5, which used the ESPN format to come closer than any other football title to telling a story. It gets my nod as Sports Game of the Decade.
"Criticism of video games is increasingly considerate of a game's narrative, and a sports simulation fundamentally has none."
This isn't necessarily true. Real sports certainly do have narratives - multiple ones at any given time - and I would *love it* if any sports game really tried to model this in both a realistic (ie. non-cheesy) and in-depth way. Some EA games have started to do it; the whole "player happiness" and "media reaction" things are *parts* of the real-life narrative of sports, but these are basically just treated as score modifiers right now in most sports games.
It would be great if sports games had real, multiple storylines that ran throughout your career (so you could really get to "know" the players involved over the years), that changed depending on your actions, that affected gameplay and were an integral part of the game rather than an afterthought. Like, I want to see players shooting themselves in the leg at nightclubs in the off-season. Or deciding to retire, then un-retire, then retire again, then un-retire again. Throw some wrinkles like that into your team management!
This is probably the last frontier in sports games - everything else has been done. I feel like all EA's doing in all their sports games anymore is improving the graphics and adding a new move or two each year that just makes the controls more complex. #sports
@badasscat: Well, Blitz: The League took that approach. The problem there is that 1) sports gamers by and large want to see real players in their games and 2) the licenses people buy into would never allow such tinkering with their product. Could you imagine the Cable story playing out in a game or the recent Volunteers' players' robbery? I can, but it'll never happen. #sports
I've played a bunch of NFL 2k5 and didn't see why it stood out in any way over Madden 2005. It's a good game of football, but not a perfect game like the hype suggested to me. #sports
@gordiehowe5: No game is perfect, but I do think it did so many things right in so many different areas that overall, it may be one of the better football games ever released.
People will have differing opinions on THE best football title but I think even Madden fanatics have to admit that 2K5 did things 5 years ago that Madden 10 finally implemented. So at the very least, it was a game ahead of it's time. #sports
I notice he didn't play up the first-person football experience/camera. Almost a good idea.
2K5 was a great product at an even better price point, but it seems to me a lot of people are looking at the title with rose-tinted glasses because of their distaste for Madden exclusively adopting the NFL license. 2K5 was great, but it still was pretty arcadey because of not having momentum/physics built into the players -- you could practically spin in a circle. Still a great game, still had an unbelievably rich set of features, but I still prefer Madden 10, personally. #sports
@Strangelove: Here's the thing, if a 2K6 ever did come out and build upon what 2K5 established, it would have likely addressed it's problems (running game, lack of momentum physics, etc.).
My opinion should be taken lightly as I'm a casual football fan, but I too like Madden 10 and I think it is better than 2K5. But I have to say that it took EA years to get it right, and we are effectively comparing a game made 5 years ago to one made this year.
Just imagine us comparing Madden 2000 to Joe Montana's Sports Talk Football on the Genesis (still a fun game IMO). There's a world of a difference and for good reason. I can't say there is a world of a difference between Madden 10 and 2K5, though I do agree Madden 10 is better. #sports
@Strangelove: Please give up the myth about it being arcadey. You didn't play the game at all. Do a youtube search on 2K5 and see what is said about it's physics and momentum compared to anything else on the market. Even now. You did not play 2K5 - that's clear based on you being 100% wrong about spinning in circles. That was the criticism of the 2K early on. But they added momentum in 2K3. You using a dated argument. 2K5 had leans, jump cuts, all that. Everything in movement that Madden had and then some. #sports
Of course, there is serious speculation about the relative value of Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo 3, as well as that of GTA: Vice City versus GTA 4, not to mention the near consensus that Super Mario Bros. 3 is superior to Super Mario Galaxy. But great article, great points, and man, was that a great game. I think the Tony Hawk games in their prime came the closest to being named GOTY, but then they didn't face a lot of the restrictions faced by other sports games. I would love to see full games made every other year, with roster updates and maybe a few tweaks in between by DLC. Then there might be breathing room to truly innovate. But that won't happen. #sports
@buddhathing: Do you think that, because these games are a lot of times designed for spots fans who are also gamers, that hurts their chances at getting GOTY awards? I'm not really a sports fan so if I had a vote it wouldn't even cross my mind to cast it for a football\baseball\etc. game, no matter how incredible they may have been. #sports
@buddhathing: Strongly agree with the last two sentences. Sports games would absolutely benefit from having a 2 or even 3 year cycle instead of the current yearly one. Yearly games hurt the developers, the games themselves, and the perception of them, regardless of how good/bad they are.
I figure the games, or at least Madden, sell too well for this to even be considered, but we can dream I guess. It's a shame because given the extra time to sit in the oven, I can imagine these games being really amazing every time. #sports
@jayislost: I think the developer that Owen interviewed has it right. It's a cultural issue. Sports games are a cash cow, and a lot of people not only play them, but buy a new iteration yearly, without giving it a second thought. But for a lot of these people, playing these games is more an extension of their sports fandom than of a video game obsession. Sure, they might also play Modern Warfare, and their kid has a Wii. But in my experience (and this seems more true now than it was back in the beginning of the decade), these gamers (and I have friends like this) tend to focus on games that are more realistic, and see more fantastic games, or cel-shaded graphics, as being childish.
There is a smaller group of gamers that play sports games that play all sorts of games. I used to be like that, but I don't play sports games that much anymore. There are many more otherwise well-rounded gamers that don't play sports games. People that have votes at magazines, on blogs, etc. for Game of the Year tend to be mostly the from the second grouping mentioned in this paragraph, and somewhat from the first. But the type of gamer that I mentioned in the previous paragraph is not likely to work for a gaming blog or magazine. So when it comes time to nominate, and then vote, sports games are going to be left out. Hopefully, a truly groundbreaking sports game that rethought the purpose (moving away from a telecast simulation, say) or completely rethought the mechanics (like SKATE did) could at least get nominated.
One solution I've seen that overcomes the groupthink that inherently results is to let individual writers and editors also publish their personal top ten, in addition to the collaborative list. #sports
@Chalkdust: Maybe having twoalternating sets of developers, as on the Call of Duty series, would help, both by lengthening the development cycle and by bringing a sense of competition back into play. #sports
Hells yes I loved NFL 2K5. I think my favorite feature was the complete customization option for in-game music (if you had it on an original Xbox). My Miami Dolphins always stormed into the stadium to the soothing sounds of the Beatles' "Octopus' Garden." #sports
@D-K, stubbed his toe..*swears*: It's buddha thing, as in 'all things are buddha things', meaning that, as John Lennon said, "I am he as you are me and we are all together", but extended to things besides people as well. All composed of and composing the same substance. #sports
You know what this means, right? THE CONSOLE WARS ARE OVER! 360 wins!
I notice a lot of people are asking why there's no Wii love. If you ask me, Wii had quite a lackluster year among mainstream gamers, perhaps with the exception of Wii Fit. 2009 will hopefully be more interesting with games like The Conduit, Wii Sports 2, and, dare I say it? - Sonic and the Black Knight (the first one was half decent).
But putting "You Have To Burn The Rope" on the list? That took balls, Brian.
It's not popular with gamers to go with GTA IV, but nevertheless it's still one of 2008's best. Whether it's #1 is a matter of taste, opinion. The game has a lot of flaws, the relationship babysitting was overdone, and it seems like with most people the game either needed more San Andreas in a game not called San Andreas, or the storyline wasn't good enough. Hopefully Rockstar can find some way to satisfy more people next time without abandoning the great things they did in IV.
11/14/09
11/14/09
I won't be playing an NFL title again until Visual Concepts gets the license back. To hell with madden. #sports
11/14/09
11/15/09
Do people still update and download rosters for 2K5? I might go re-buy it, as I had Madden 10 and after playing it for two weeks returned it. It's a broken game. #sports
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
There needs to be some form of anti-trust action taken for this sort of stuff, lol. #sports
11/14/09
Still, I understand your frustration with a predatory business deal that has diminished the quality and quantity of selection. #sports
11/14/09
[www.nfl2k5rosters.com] #sports
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
And I think you're right, Owen, in that it has something to do with storytelling-- we consider that an essential criterion for a game that could win GOTY. Sports games simply don't tell stories; they create structures in which the gamer can tell a story. That, of course, brings us back to NFL 2k5, which used the ESPN format to come closer than any other football title to telling a story. It gets my nod as Sports Game of the Decade.
11/14/09
This isn't necessarily true. Real sports certainly do have narratives - multiple ones at any given time - and I would *love it* if any sports game really tried to model this in both a realistic (ie. non-cheesy) and in-depth way. Some EA games have started to do it; the whole "player happiness" and "media reaction" things are *parts* of the real-life narrative of sports, but these are basically just treated as score modifiers right now in most sports games.
It would be great if sports games had real, multiple storylines that ran throughout your career (so you could really get to "know" the players involved over the years), that changed depending on your actions, that affected gameplay and were an integral part of the game rather than an afterthought. Like, I want to see players shooting themselves in the leg at nightclubs in the off-season. Or deciding to retire, then un-retire, then retire again, then un-retire again. Throw some wrinkles like that into your team management!
This is probably the last frontier in sports games - everything else has been done. I feel like all EA's doing in all their sports games anymore is improving the graphics and adding a new move or two each year that just makes the controls more complex. #sports
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
People will have differing opinions on THE best football title but I think even Madden fanatics have to admit that 2K5 did things 5 years ago that Madden 10 finally implemented. So at the very least, it was a game ahead of it's time. #sports
11/14/09
2K5 was a great product at an even better price point, but it seems to me a lot of people are looking at the title with rose-tinted glasses because of their distaste for Madden exclusively adopting the NFL license. 2K5 was great, but it still was pretty arcadey because of not having momentum/physics built into the players -- you could practically spin in a circle. Still a great game, still had an unbelievably rich set of features, but I still prefer Madden 10, personally. #sports
11/14/09
My opinion should be taken lightly as I'm a casual football fan, but I too like Madden 10 and I think it is better than 2K5. But I have to say that it took EA years to get it right, and we are effectively comparing a game made 5 years ago to one made this year.
Just imagine us comparing Madden 2000 to Joe Montana's Sports Talk Football on the Genesis (still a fun game IMO). There's a world of a difference and for good reason. I can't say there is a world of a difference between Madden 10 and 2K5, though I do agree Madden 10 is better. #sports
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
I figure the games, or at least Madden, sell too well for this to even be considered, but we can dream I guess. It's a shame because given the extra time to sit in the oven, I can imagine these games being really amazing every time. #sports
11/14/09
There is a smaller group of gamers that play sports games that play all sorts of games. I used to be like that, but I don't play sports games that much anymore. There are many more otherwise well-rounded gamers that don't play sports games. People that have votes at magazines, on blogs, etc. for Game of the Year tend to be mostly the from the second grouping mentioned in this paragraph, and somewhat from the first. But the type of gamer that I mentioned in the previous paragraph is not likely to work for a gaming blog or magazine. So when it comes time to nominate, and then vote, sports games are going to be left out. Hopefully, a truly groundbreaking sports game that rethought the purpose (moving away from a telecast simulation, say) or completely rethought the mechanics (like SKATE did) could at least get nominated.
One solution I've seen that overcomes the groupthink that inherently results is to let individual writers and editors also publish their personal top ten, in addition to the collaborative list. #sports
11/14/09
11/14/09
Seriously, though, the thought you seem to have put into this is humbling. #sports
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
or is it "budd hating" in the sense that you hate budds?
Or is it "buddha thing" as in... well.. i wouldn't know as in what..
please clarify, it's driving me nuts #sports
11/14/09
11/14/09
I did the same thing with my custom soundtrack. Every time my team would sack the opposing quarterback the PA would play Tool's 'prison sex' track.
It was a double humiliation for my competition and it made me smile every damn time :) #sports
11/14/09
01/23/09
You know what this means, right? THE CONSOLE WARS ARE OVER! 360 wins!
I notice a lot of people are asking why there's no Wii love. If you ask me, Wii had quite a lackluster year among mainstream gamers, perhaps with the exception of Wii Fit. 2009 will hopefully be more interesting with games like The Conduit, Wii Sports 2, and, dare I say it? - Sonic and the Black Knight (the first one was half decent).
But putting "You Have To Burn The Rope" on the list? That took balls, Brian.
01/23/09
It's not popular with gamers to go with GTA IV, but nevertheless it's still one of 2008's best. Whether it's #1 is a matter of taste, opinion. The game has a lot of flaws, the relationship babysitting was overdone, and it seems like with most people the game either needed more San Andreas in a game not called San Andreas, or the storyline wasn't good enough. Hopefully Rockstar can find some way to satisfy more people next time without abandoning the great things they did in IV.