So based on this, can we safely assume that Mad Max 4 will suck donkey balls? I mean, consider how many people skip the cutscenes in video games, and now translate that to a 2-hour long "cutscene" that has no game built in.
This might be totally off-topic, but something else that I really don't get is Cake... I mean, everybody keep talking about frosting, but it's really the cake that is the important part, right? I mean frosting is tasty and all, but it totally needs cake. I've eaten plenty of cakes that are totally delicious without frosting, but who ever heard of a frosting without a cake? It's stupid! I don't know why bakers even bow to popular opinion that everything needs frosting when they know perfectly well that it's the cake that's important. Ergo, Frosting is totally unimportant.
@cb_32: I wouldn't say MGS2 surpassed movies... It surpassed many movies, but it was in desperate need of some dialogue distillation. As is every Metal Gear Game... As is most Japanese media.
This is coming from a serious anime fan, so don't start railing on me for this. MGS4 is the best game ever made, but that doesn't mean I can't see its flaws.
Some will say that games can't compete with text in telling stories. Others, as above, retort that games have exceeded text in storytelling. But aren't both of these views equally mistaken?
I think it's safe to say that film has become accepted as a medium that's worth critical attention, a medium fully capable of telling stories. Yet aside from text to movie adaptations (or vice versa), does anyone now really think that one of these two mediums is simply better at telling stories than the other? Clearly both mediums are capable of conveying stories. But the way in which they do so differs to such a degree that it's illogical to compare them 1:1 or assume that they should be judged by the same merits. The same is true of videogames.
Why should videogames have to surpass text or film? Why bother with a direct comparison at all? Videogames will never tell stories... as a book would. This is also true of film, live acting, etc.
Consider what makes videogames unique in their abilities to tell stories. I don't pretend to know the entirety of what that might be; the genre is very much in its infancy. But I'm convinced that this uniqueness is what will eventually lead to the same acceptance and critical attention that is now afforded to film, far more so than any attempt to outright surpass genres that videogames are not.
But.. the point he was making probably was that if you're writing a video- game, you can engage the player more directly than you can in a film. While it's possible to smuggle in the story- telling you would rely on in a novel.
So.. seems to me you have the "it's own voice" right there.
Give me a Mad Max sand box with all the fixings and I'll personally give you head... AND SWALLOW!
I've been waiting for that game for 20 years and resigned myself to it never being made. I mean... a little Fallout, a little Fuel, a little rage, the size of Oblivion (or maybe 10X larger), the realism of FarCry two and/or Crysis, AI of Halo 3 on legendary, the resource scarcity of Resident Evil and the depth of roll playing as an Ultima underworld game.
I'm not asking for a lot hear... I even offered head... I swear I'll do it. I will ho myself out for someone to make this game!!!
If you ask me, the only thing missing from Fallout 3 were vehicles and long stretches of road. The entire Fallout series is a shout-out to The Road Warrior.
Duh. games have been a superior medium for a very long time now, its just that these days people aren't writing video games off as nothing more then "shoot the enemy, get the powerup, win the game."
I like to imagine that when Barlog was first approached by Miller about doing a game tie-in, to the next Mad Max film, his response went something like this.
Barlog: Two years ago I designed a game big enough to serve as an adequate sequel to a well established game franchise. You wanna make a good video game? Talk to me.
@GunSavior: I find it amusing that someone who sees the potential of games as a storytelling medium, would want to get involved with the people who made God of War...
@Zolbrod: God of War is a good example of a game being both story and gameplay driven. I think people forget that excitement and awe are also emotions; a game/movie/book doesn't have to make someone cry to have a good story. God of War beat every action movie I've seen or book I've read in terms of excitement. That entire game was a huge adrenaline rush. The point of the game was to make the player feel epic, and God of War succeeded with gameplay, story, and music hand in hand.
Please don't flip on me for doing a gaming a great disservice up until now but I finally started Half Life 2 last night. As far as story telling goes, that's all I'm going to say. It's genius. GTA IV had better scriptwriting then a lot of movies out too. MGS series is so complex I had to take some notes to do it. The third game is a prequel tying in events? It's brilliant.
@kylo4iskyle4: I'll go commit a greater atrocity and say that HL2 felt soulless to me. Without doubt the story telling is great, but the story itself is lacking.
@Sutekh_Slain: While we're committing the mortal sin of Half-Life 2 bashing, I'd like to add that I didn't get the feeling of immersion or of being Gordon Freeman everybody talks about. I just felt like a big hulking galoot who did whatever everybody else told him.
I posted this in the topic about the SO creator, but I will repost here because it still applies!
Games simply do not need stories. The best games have no stories, in past (Super Mario Kart -- what in the world would possess a plumber et al. to climb in go karts and go racing?) and present (CoD4 -- hell, most people don't play through the actually pretty good story mode). What the hell does it matter? Those games are fun.
I don't think this takes away from his point, though; as a medium, video games are very young and have not have their full potential seen. There have been recent games that have shocked players by their story. Two examples that jump out at me are Final Fantasy X and Bioshock. Bioshock was a masterful twist that calls into question everything a player does during a first-person shooter, essentially calling the player a sheep.
But what does it matter? Just about every other FPS on the market has a dime-a-dozen plot (Halo, Resistance, Gears of War) and sells even better because the game is fun. Why would a developer spend money on designers to work on a million dollar story when they already have a million dollar game?
I would love to see developers have something of a paradigm shift and gain an increased appreciation of storylines. I don't expect it too soon, though.
@Sutekh_Slain: But the subversive element of the story couldn't have succeeded without the gameplay -- it's not an either/or split, but a good example of how story completes the package. Take away the story, and Portal is just a pretty neat physics puzzler.
The way it messes with choice gives the narrative ludology folks a giant boner.
@onidavin: yeah there's that, but there are games that have no story, and a game without gameplay isn't a game. I agree that a story completes the package, (look at my PoP comment), I just question its relative importance.
"Portal is just a pretty neat physics puzzler." With or without the story that's all it is.
@vid3oman64: So you are saying that a story is useless in a game?? Well, id like to see you play a game without any voice over, text or anything else that can help the player to get into the game. Play a final fantasy game without text/VO and try to convince me that it was good. I doubt that, games needs a story. Not every game but most of them. Even FPS needs a story. It help with the immersion of the player into the game and it makes it more enjoyable.
@vid3oman64: I think Video Games really are starting to surpass movies, and that isn't a statement that video game story lines are getting any better. They aren't. They've been about as complicated as "Evil empire against a rag-tag group of rebels" for decades.
No, this is more of a statement that movies are just getting THAT DAMN LOW. For every "Coraline", there's at least 10 "Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li"s. When is the last time you drove by a movie theater and thought, "Hmm... that looks interesting! Let's pick up tickets!"? Every time I drive by the multiplex, it always ends in disappointment.
So, in short, Video Games and Movies are just about equally garbage.
MarioKart would have absolutely NO relevance if Super Mario Bros. (and I guess Mario Bros.) didn't come first, and THAT game, my friend, had a story. Weak as it is, you need to justify why Mario is chowing down on mushrooms to get r done. MarioKart then becomes an all-star game, which is part of its selling point. You already know where all those characters come from, and their relevance to the Nintendo universe before you pick up that game. Try picking up Super Bombad Racing and tell me it rocks - chances are, you'll say it won't, even though it's just a clone of MarioKart. Why? Because nobody cares about a big-headed Jar Jar Binks.
03/07/09
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03/07/09
This is coming from a serious anime fan, so don't start railing on me for this. MGS4 is the best game ever made, but that doesn't mean I can't see its flaws.
03/06/09
I think it's safe to say that film has become accepted as a medium that's worth critical attention, a medium fully capable of telling stories. Yet aside from text to movie adaptations (or vice versa), does anyone now really think that one of these two mediums is simply better at telling stories than the other? Clearly both mediums are capable of conveying stories. But the way in which they do so differs to such a degree that it's illogical to compare them 1:1 or assume that they should be judged by the same merits. The same is true of videogames.
Why should videogames have to surpass text or film? Why bother with a direct comparison at all? Videogames will never tell stories... as a book would. This is also true of film, live acting, etc.
Consider what makes videogames unique in their abilities to tell stories. I don't pretend to know the entirety of what that might be; the genre is very much in its infancy. But I'm convinced that this uniqueness is what will eventually lead to the same acceptance and critical attention that is now afforded to film, far more so than any attempt to outright surpass genres that videogames are not.
03/08/09
But.. the point he was making probably was that if you're writing a video- game, you can engage the player more directly than you can in a film. While it's possible to smuggle in the story- telling you would rely on in a novel.
So.. seems to me you have the "it's own voice" right there.
03/06/09
I've been waiting for that game for 20 years and resigned myself to it never being made. I mean... a little Fallout, a little Fuel, a little rage, the size of Oblivion (or maybe 10X larger), the realism of FarCry two and/or Crysis, AI of Halo 3 on legendary, the resource scarcity of Resident Evil and the depth of roll playing as an Ultima underworld game.
I'm not asking for a lot hear... I even offered head... I swear I'll do it. I will ho myself out for someone to make this game!!!
03/06/09
"AI of Halo 3 on legendary"
Oh you mean the part where they take turns going at you in fear that too many attacking enemies would be too much to deal with on thumbsticks?
Surely there must be better examples than an AI built to take it easy on regenerating health.
03/06/09
03/07/09
If you ask me, the only thing missing from Fallout 3 were vehicles and long stretches of road. The entire Fallout series is a shout-out to The Road Warrior.
03/06/09
03/06/09
03/06/09
Barlog: Two years ago I designed a game big enough to serve as an adequate sequel to a well established game franchise. You wanna make a good video game? Talk to me.
03/06/09
03/07/09
03/06/09
03/06/09
03/07/09
03/06/09
Games simply do not need stories. The best games have no stories, in past (Super Mario Kart -- what in the world would possess a plumber et al. to climb in go karts and go racing?) and present (CoD4 -- hell, most people don't play through the actually pretty good story mode). What the hell does it matter? Those games are fun.
I don't think this takes away from his point, though; as a medium, video games are very young and have not have their full potential seen. There have been recent games that have shocked players by their story. Two examples that jump out at me are Final Fantasy X and Bioshock. Bioshock was a masterful twist that calls into question everything a player does during a first-person shooter, essentially calling the player a sheep.
But what does it matter? Just about every other FPS on the market has a dime-a-dozen plot (Halo, Resistance, Gears of War) and sells even better because the game is fun. Why would a developer spend money on designers to work on a million dollar story when they already have a million dollar game?
I would love to see developers have something of a paradigm shift and gain an increased appreciation of storylines. I don't expect it too soon, though.
03/06/09
03/06/09
03/06/09
The way it messes with choice gives the narrative ludology folks a giant boner.
03/06/09
"Portal is just a pretty neat physics puzzler." With or without the story that's all it is.
03/06/09
03/07/09
LEGO (insert IP name here).
03/07/09
No, this is more of a statement that movies are just getting THAT DAMN LOW. For every "Coraline", there's at least 10 "Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li"s. When is the last time you drove by a movie theater and thought, "Hmm... that looks interesting! Let's pick up tickets!"? Every time I drive by the multiplex, it always ends in disappointment.
So, in short, Video Games and Movies are just about equally garbage.
03/07/09
MarioKart would have absolutely NO relevance if Super Mario Bros. (and I guess Mario Bros.) didn't come first, and THAT game, my friend, had a story. Weak as it is, you need to justify why Mario is chowing down on mushrooms to get r done. MarioKart then becomes an all-star game, which is part of its selling point. You already know where all those characters come from, and their relevance to the Nintendo universe before you pick up that game. Try picking up Super Bombad Racing and tell me it rocks - chances are, you'll say it won't, even though it's just a clone of MarioKart. Why? Because nobody cares about a big-headed Jar Jar Binks.