To be honest, someone who boasts about being gay in their Gamertag or profile and then complains about the negative attention is like a woman who makes her tag "HotChick4U_87" and then whines because of the negative attention she receives.
They don't deserve that kind of attention, of course. But you have to be responsible and take care of yourself. Also, grow a thicker skin. If all you truely have to be concerned about is hearing someone say "that's gay" online, you have it pretty darn good.
Peter David's last comment at the end rather cheeses me off.
First off, don't try to pretend you're claiming the moral high ground by telling someone to buy your product. Secondly, there is a difference between being tolerant of someone who is trying to limit the civil rights of their fellow human beings because of an arbitrary religious edict, and being tolerant of people who want nothing more or less but the same legal rights that other citizens enjoy.
Tolerance is not some hollow buzzword concept that must be applied equally to all. We should not tolerate murderers, or theives, we should not tolerate tyranny, or abuse. And it is not hyprocritical to refuse to tolerate the intolerant. It's a question of using reason and judgement to determine what is fair and right.
I won't be buying Shadow Complex, or doing anything else to support the endeavors of OSC, or anybody who would publically associate with him, or anybody else who publically espouses views like his. Other people are free to make their own decisions about where their priorities are, but I'm with Kim Wong.
on topic with football, has anyone else noticed the McDonald's add, in Madden 10, during gameplay, above the score bar, when your players run up to the line.
that is the most fucking stupidest idea i have ever seen. 1st of all im okay with ad's in games, if they work/fit in with the environment, (billboards, soda machines, ad's in sporting activities, in specific areas, ex, hockey), but popping up above the score bar, while making an audible, is kinda ridiculous.
Remember the days when most games were released without the need of patches? Sure some games would have been beneficial to have patches, but back then games seemed so simple. Just put in and play.
Those days sure were some fun, nostalgic and XXXX old times :(
@(Zombie) Goldwings: Well, that's usually because games used simpler (and less) code to achieve their simpler (and less in content and behind-the-scenes programming goodness) results.
Sure, Tetris might be insanely stable and doesn't require patches, but it can be ported to graphing calculators.
Often, game glitches back then became the norm. Once you found out that every object in the game blows up, then it's normal and not considered a real glitch anymore.
My point is that we live in different times, with different expectations, with absolutely gargantuan and ambitious games. This obviously requires more code, and that obviously causes more glitches. Simple.
@(Zombie) Goldwings: id have to agree with you, but there are some old games that just didnt work, and were beyond broke, but most of them, most of them were fine.
The 'gay' thing on XBL is an interesting issue. I have yet to hear of one solution that works for everyone. Does anyone actually have any idea of some system that can be implemented on services like XBL that don't cause an issue for both sides? I'd be interested in hearing those ideas.
I can't think of a resolution. Either you allow the word and it's used for both harmful (and R rated, since XBL has to try and stay as family friendly as possible) uses as well as legitimate uses, or you disallow it. Where's the middle ground, Kotakuites?
I agree.
My brother, age 22, trash talks more than anyone I know.
He picks on women in Halo 3, and acts like a complete douchebag.
He betrays everyone, making the game less enjoyable.
I think the current solution is probably the best one. Just because somebody can't use the word "gay" in their gamertag doesn't necessarily mean they can't be gay or a homophobe in real life, it just means they can't broadcast it on XBL.
More to the point, why are we allowing him to have all of the attention while the programmers, the designers, the coders, all of the people who actually put sweat, blood and tears into the final product go anonymous? Such is the perils of game creation- very few if any (save for Dude Huge, Kojima, Wright, Miyamoto) actually get recognized. I say pick up the game, if not for him then for the people whose work this product actually reflects. Don't punish the dev team because you hate the creator of a work the game is loosely based on.
@UltimatePancakeSensation: Hey now, don't let a few rotten apples ruin the bunch; not all molesters are religious, in fact, I've met some very nice people in my day.
Way I've always looked at it is, if the auteur can separate his art from his politics, so can I.
I can disagree with someone politically and still enjoy the results of their labor.
But when I find someone's politics abhorrent and those beliefs bleed into their art, well...that's their right to create such art.
Just as it's my prerogative not to support that endeavor. Such work just ends up being the intellectual equivalent of smearing dog crap on a canvas and calling it art.
Considering O.S. Card had nothing to do with the creation of the game, it would make a whole hell of a lot more sense not to buy his books than to boycott the game. Shadow Complex is something that should be praised: a game that blows all convention out of the water by proving that it's possible to make a quality title for an online distribution platform that goes way beyond the confines of it's price tag. To hell with Card, go buy "SC" and support good video games.
I dont see what the debate here is. You don't like the author, of the book that this game is based, and his views?
Don't buy it. Don't support.
And Wong go to hell. Get off down your high horse. Everyone is a bigot on the inside. Its natural we dont know that person we dont what they would do, so we fear that person. It's simply whether we can hold down the instinct to react in a negative manner. Some people cant. Some people can and people change.
and thing is about the whole "support" issue is that most other people provide a service. Such as managing the cashiers, mopping the floor you step on yet you pay them one way or another. Gonna stop living then?
You know, if I lived in a town where the guy who owned a particular gas station was a high-profile scumbag, I wouldn't buy gas there, and that would by my choice.
Sure, he probably wouldn't even notice the lack of business. And if he did, yeah, it might financially disadvantage his non-scumbag employees, too. But it would be my right not to do business a scumbag if I didn't want to.
Kim Wong has every right not to buy this game if it bothers his conscience. If it doesn't bother yours -- and I'm not saying it should -- go ahead and buy it, but stop hammering Wong for a legitimate personal decision.
The only "argument" he needs is that he doesn't simply want to buy a product associated with someone he thinks is a high-profile scumbag, and that's his choice.
@gigshaft: He's free to do what he wants, just as we're free to belittle him for making such a stupid decision and then parading it around on the internet. Sweet, sweet freedom.
Orson Scott Card is the only person who made this game. There were no other programmers, artists, or designers working on it. Those people (who didn't work on the game) did not work hard to make a game that people would enjoy, nor do they have families they wish to support. Most of them (who don't exist) did not share Card's inflammatory views.
Additionally, none of the games any of you have purchased over the years have had members of their development teams with views that disagree with yours or actively work against them.
...Had I known Gears of War was made by Canadians I wouldn't have bought it. You can't trust those sneaky canucks. Them and their damn hockey ninjas will be the death of us all!
"In a phone interview this week, Wong told me: "I decided I could not in good conscience support a product of a person whose views I find abhorrent and knowingly give him money. In my everyday life I probably give enough money unknowingly to bigots or at least to people whose personal and political views I find distasteful."
Oh please, these people need to grow up. While I think the statements Card made are shameful the holes in Wong's argument are numerous.
First, there is no indication that I have seen that the success of this game will influence Card's finances in any way.
Second, statements like the one quoted above are laughable. Sure, "support" numerous causes that are not our own by buying goods and services from people but many of us go a step further and buy goods and services from people we know have differing viewpoints. Every time we see a movie or buy music we are giving money to a person or group of people who may disagree with us on "key" issues... but are you going to skip the next album from your favorite band because their frontman came out and told the world that he was pro-life?
Third, Wong sets himself up to sit on a pillar drawing obscure lines connecting one issue to another (homophobia to shadow complex?) but tries to cover himself from being called a hypocrite by claiming he doesn't know where all his money goes. That's all fine and good but how can you really claim the moral high ground on something like this if you're not willing to do some sort of fact check on the people you make optional (games, movies, music) purchases from just to make sure you aren't funding causes you are against?
Cherry picking outrage is pathetic.
P.S. Oh by the way, sources on some of the homophobic Card statements would be nice.
08/27/09
They don't deserve that kind of attention, of course. But you have to be responsible and take care of yourself. Also, grow a thicker skin. If all you truely have to be concerned about is hearing someone say "that's gay" online, you have it pretty darn good.
08/26/09
First off, don't try to pretend you're claiming the moral high ground by telling someone to buy your product. Secondly, there is a difference between being tolerant of someone who is trying to limit the civil rights of their fellow human beings because of an arbitrary religious edict, and being tolerant of people who want nothing more or less but the same legal rights that other citizens enjoy.
Tolerance is not some hollow buzzword concept that must be applied equally to all. We should not tolerate murderers, or theives, we should not tolerate tyranny, or abuse. And it is not hyprocritical to refuse to tolerate the intolerant. It's a question of using reason and judgement to determine what is fair and right.
I won't be buying Shadow Complex, or doing anything else to support the endeavors of OSC, or anybody who would publically associate with him, or anybody else who publically espouses views like his. Other people are free to make their own decisions about where their priorities are, but I'm with Kim Wong.
08/26/09
that is the most fucking stupidest idea i have ever seen. 1st of all im okay with ad's in games, if they work/fit in with the environment, (billboards, soda machines, ad's in sporting activities, in specific areas, ex, hockey), but popping up above the score bar, while making an audible, is kinda ridiculous.
08/26/09
08/26/09
Those days sure were some fun, nostalgic and XXXX old times :(
08/26/09
Sure, Tetris might be insanely stable and doesn't require patches, but it can be ported to graphing calculators.
Often, game glitches back then became the norm. Once you found out that every object in the game blows up, then it's normal and not considered a real glitch anymore.
My point is that we live in different times, with different expectations, with absolutely gargantuan and ambitious games. This obviously requires more code, and that obviously causes more glitches. Simple.
08/26/09
08/26/09
Thanks Owen,starting today that will be my favorite word ^_^
08/26/09
I've always been partial to "wriggle".
08/26/09
I can't think of a resolution. Either you allow the word and it's used for both harmful (and R rated, since XBL has to try and stay as family friendly as possible) uses as well as legitimate uses, or you disallow it. Where's the middle ground, Kotakuites?
08/26/09
08/26/09
08/26/09
I agree.
My brother, age 22, trash talks more than anyone I know.
He picks on women in Halo 3, and acts like a complete douchebag.
He betrays everyone, making the game less enjoyable.
Oh wait! I meant to say step-brother!
08/26/09
@Jimbodawg: Soooounds like a sequel....
08/26/09
I think the current solution is probably the best one. Just because somebody can't use the word "gay" in their gamertag doesn't necessarily mean they can't be gay or a homophobe in real life, it just means they can't broadcast it on XBL.
08/25/09
I hope everyone who decided that he has to boycott Shadow Empire, hasn't spent anything on Lucasarts' The Secret of Monkey Island and The Dig ...
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/24/09
I can disagree with someone politically and still enjoy the results of their labor.
But when I find someone's politics abhorrent and those beliefs bleed into their art, well...that's their right to create such art.
Just as it's my prerogative not to support that endeavor. Such work just ends up being the intellectual equivalent of smearing dog crap on a canvas and calling it art.
08/24/09
08/24/09
You want to buy the game? Do it then
You dont? Then don't.
I dont see what the debate here is. You don't like the author, of the book that this game is based, and his views?
Don't buy it. Don't support.
And Wong go to hell. Get off down your high horse. Everyone is a bigot on the inside. Its natural we dont know that person we dont what they would do, so we fear that person. It's simply whether we can hold down the instinct to react in a negative manner. Some people cant. Some people can and people change.
and thing is about the whole "support" issue is that most other people provide a service. Such as managing the cashiers, mopping the floor you step on yet you pay them one way or another. Gonna stop living then?
08/24/09
Sure, he probably wouldn't even notice the lack of business. And if he did, yeah, it might financially disadvantage his non-scumbag employees, too. But it would be my right not to do business a scumbag if I didn't want to.
Kim Wong has every right not to buy this game if it bothers his conscience. If it doesn't bother yours -- and I'm not saying it should -- go ahead and buy it, but stop hammering Wong for a legitimate personal decision.
The only "argument" he needs is that he doesn't simply want to buy a product associated with someone he thinks is a high-profile scumbag, and that's his choice.
08/25/09
08/24/09
Additionally, none of the games any of you have purchased over the years have had members of their development teams with views that disagree with yours or actively work against them.
08/24/09
08/24/09
Oh please, these people need to grow up. While I think the statements Card made are shameful the holes in Wong's argument are numerous.
First, there is no indication that I have seen that the success of this game will influence Card's finances in any way.
Second, statements like the one quoted above are laughable. Sure, "support" numerous causes that are not our own by buying goods and services from people but many of us go a step further and buy goods and services from people we know have differing viewpoints. Every time we see a movie or buy music we are giving money to a person or group of people who may disagree with us on "key" issues... but are you going to skip the next album from your favorite band because their frontman came out and told the world that he was pro-life?
Third, Wong sets himself up to sit on a pillar drawing obscure lines connecting one issue to another (homophobia to shadow complex?) but tries to cover himself from being called a hypocrite by claiming he doesn't know where all his money goes. That's all fine and good but how can you really claim the moral high ground on something like this if you're not willing to do some sort of fact check on the people you make optional (games, movies, music) purchases from just to make sure you aren't funding causes you are against?
Cherry picking outrage is pathetic.
P.S. Oh by the way, sources on some of the homophobic Card statements would be nice.
08/24/09