Does releasing a shit product for one platform and then using the complaints on that as a basis for fixing it for another platform fall under this "Expandable Experience" paradigm?
Piracy has obviously warped the software industries views on the matter. Ever wonder why the public is willing to shell out 50 bucks for a packaged video game? Publishers seem to feel that the consumer is gauging that the will be getting at least $50 worth of entertainment from the game. Well, it's not that simple.
We pay a premium on top of the entertainment value because the product is a durable good. It has a store of value, a lasting value beyond the time we spend consuming it. Look at it this way, you wouldn't pay $50 for access to play a game for 200 hours. Why not, you're not likely to play any game for over 200 hours, so the entertainment value per dollar hasn't changed at all. The only thing that has changed is the store of value.
Software publishers seem to be the only industry that shuns this asset of their products. Look at car manufacturers, they advertise the resale value of their products.
They don't realize it, but the fact that these games can be traded in or passed along works in the publisher's favor. We pay more because we can resell, even though most of us don't.
I've been gaming since the days of the Commodore 64.
I never know when I might want to pick a game back up and play it again so I don't get rid of them. Also resale values are so low that it makes my head hurt. I'd rather keep it than sell it for 20% of what I paid for it.
But I'm not normal, I realize that. I can also see the logic in making a game fun so people want to keep it.
@Slothboy: same. I keep all my games ,even the bad ones. I still have Mighty Max for Genesis. Horrible game but to trade it in would have given me a couple cents. Not worth it. But I am happy that other people sell their games. I like buying games used than new all the time. When you have 6 or more AAA titles that all look good then the price starts to add up.
I for one do not buy this argument that you just have to make a game with more "community features." That will basically spell the end of single player games. No more God of War, Prince of Persia, any RPG's (Final Fantasy, Tales of (whatever), Kingdom Hearts, Mass Effect, etc.). Now I enjoy my battle.net as much as the next guy, but I'm also a huge fan of single player adventures and I don't want to see a store shelf full of games that are built around multiplayer with a single player experience tacked on as an after thought. I agree that game developers have to change tactics if they want to prevent resales, but demanding that all games incorporate some form of MMO experience is not it.
@Keleron: community features don't need to mean a multiplayer experience. Extremely tough tertiary objectives for players to accomplish, debates on unsolved loose ends of the plot, character preferences, etc can all create a topic of discussion for a 'community' if such a thing exists.
Whether I'd want to join the hordes of fanboys and naysayers that's almost guaranteed to pop up on an 'official' board is another story...
What about those amazing music levels where someone has painstaking set it up so that the sounds play songs as you drive past? There was a Zelda one, a Terra one and a Wind man one from Mega Man, where at the end of that level you got a lovingly crafted Wind man statue, which looks amazing, and it wasn't created with any photo stickers. What happens to those?
This doesn't seem like a good thing in the long run.
and hopefully MM will fix the horrible tag system, so you can do your own ones!
Why doesn't Sony create different "channels"? Have an "E for Everyone Channel" and an "Adult Channel" tied to the parental settings on the PSN account and the PS3? Then at least some busy-body can't report a level called "Welcome to Hell" because their Puritan eyes are too delicate for such language.
For those of you claiming that the republishing of copyrighted content constitutes "fair use", I can only say: NO-O-O-O-O-O, no it doesn't.
Fair use rules say that you can make one (1) copy of copyrighted material FOR YOUR OWN ARCHIVAL PURPOSES, not post them to a commercially-owned server for everyone in the world to access.
Sony owns the LBP servers. If material appears there whose copyright is owned by other parties, then a legal conflict exists - a conflict that Sony is completely within their rights to attempt to avoid.
For Sony to ban copyrighted content from their servers makes complete sense to this observer, and should to you, too.
Actually, across North America I believe that unless your level could decieve people into thinking it was the thing it was copying, as long as your art assets were DERIVED and not copied straight across, it would qualify as a work of parody.
But my forte is more on the tech side, so any legal experts please chip in!
You are right about Sony needing to be proactive on it just to be safe - and the levels on their servers belong to them so they can technically do whatever they want to them.
I realize this comment will probably be lost in a sea of comments, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.
I was not enthusiastic about this game at all and I really didn't understand why people were so excited. However, genuinely original content is sounding better and better the more I think about it. I still won't pick it up, though. There's no way I'll invest any amount of time in creating a level (ADD, i suppose) and there are quite a few free games that are platformers that pretty much anyone can create. (Flash games are quite common and some are really good)
IMO ideally they'd lock the level and slap a little note on it, and you could revise it and appeal. This would require some coding and a patch at this point, but it should be well doable in terms of manpower with the system they're using for moderation/griefer reporting.
I see this as growth in the LittleBigPlanet community. It was almost guaranteed that other IP would be copied at first. We're gamers, we have favorite games, we like to make homages. While it isn't the best, I am okay with Sony doing this. Sure, by policing, they run the risk of problems should their dragnet fail, but, by not policing, they run the risk of a suit there as well. In my mind Sony could win such a suit given the user-generated nature of the content, but, it is understandable why they wouldn't.
With any luck this will hurry the second stage of sandbox game creation; creative level design. Creation follows imitation, and it is only a matter of time before the old moderated levels are replaced with new, exciting works. Just look at the single player campaign levels in the game. The creativity of setting is already there, more people have to use it. I think we will be left with a community even better than the remake-filled one that we have now. It may be for the better.
This is kind of off-topic, but does anyone know if all the pre-built levels were built using the same engine? some seemed to cheat a little... but I'm not the best content creator, so I could just be wrong.
It's be nice for the levels to be able to be modded if there were built using the engine.
12/03/08
12/03/08
12/03/08
12/03/08
"We combat piracy and resales by making crappy games from the start! We invest so little in them that we can't possibly lose!"
12/03/08
12/03/08
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Koei says yes!
12/03/08
We pay a premium on top of the entertainment value because the product is a durable good. It has a store of value, a lasting value beyond the time we spend consuming it. Look at it this way, you wouldn't pay $50 for access to play a game for 200 hours. Why not, you're not likely to play any game for over 200 hours, so the entertainment value per dollar hasn't changed at all. The only thing that has changed is the store of value.
Software publishers seem to be the only industry that shuns this asset of their products. Look at car manufacturers, they advertise the resale value of their products.
They don't realize it, but the fact that these games can be traded in or passed along works in the publisher's favor. We pay more because we can resell, even though most of us don't.
12/03/08
I've been gaming since the days of the Commodore 64.
I never know when I might want to pick a game back up and play it again so I don't get rid of them. Also resale values are so low that it makes my head hurt. I'd rather keep it than sell it for 20% of what I paid for it.
But I'm not normal, I realize that. I can also see the logic in making a game fun so people want to keep it.
Duh?
12/03/08
12/03/08
12/03/08
Whether I'd want to join the hordes of fanboys and naysayers that's almost guaranteed to pop up on an 'official' board is another story...
12/03/08
I click on next/page number, and URL says it's on page two, but it's still page one. Is it just me?
12/03/08
11/13/08
Kind of like you have to get around the whole sprite by solving puzzles on each 'pixel' block (which are huge), working you way over the sprite.
Would that get pulled?
11/13/08
What about those amazing music levels where someone has painstaking set it up so that the sounds play songs as you drive past? There was a Zelda one, a Terra one and a Wind man one from Mega Man, where at the end of that level you got a lovingly crafted Wind man statue, which looks amazing, and it wasn't created with any photo stickers. What happens to those?
This doesn't seem like a good thing in the long run.
and hopefully MM will fix the horrible tag system, so you can do your own ones!
11/13/08
11/13/08
Welcome to HFIL.
Welcome to HADES.
11/13/08
Fair use rules say that you can make one (1) copy of copyrighted material FOR YOUR OWN ARCHIVAL PURPOSES, not post them to a commercially-owned server for everyone in the world to access.
Sony owns the LBP servers. If material appears there whose copyright is owned by other parties, then a legal conflict exists - a conflict that Sony is completely within their rights to attempt to avoid.
For Sony to ban copyrighted content from their servers makes complete sense to this observer, and should to you, too.
11/13/08
Actually, across North America I believe that unless your level could decieve people into thinking it was the thing it was copying, as long as your art assets were DERIVED and not copied straight across, it would qualify as a work of parody.
But my forte is more on the tech side, so any legal experts please chip in!
You are right about Sony needing to be proactive on it just to be safe - and the levels on their servers belong to them so they can technically do whatever they want to them.
11/13/08
I was not enthusiastic about this game at all and I really didn't understand why people were so excited. However, genuinely original content is sounding better and better the more I think about it. I still won't pick it up, though. There's no way I'll invest any amount of time in creating a level (ADD, i suppose) and there are quite a few free games that are platformers that pretty much anyone can create. (Flash games are quite common and some are really good)
11/13/08
11/13/08
With any luck this will hurry the second stage of sandbox game creation; creative level design. Creation follows imitation, and it is only a matter of time before the old moderated levels are replaced with new, exciting works. Just look at the single player campaign levels in the game. The creativity of setting is already there, more people have to use it. I think we will be left with a community even better than the remake-filled one that we have now. It may be for the better.
11/13/08
It's be nice for the levels to be able to be modded if there were built using the engine.