Whatever scent Square Enix thinks Lightning will emit, I wanna smell it ALL DAY LONG. Maybe mixed with Fang, perhaps? That's a good smell. I just know it.
Know who I don't wanna smell? Hope. Seriously, ever smell a kid who just got off a school bus? Being packed in tightly with other grody children doesn't exactly make you smell fresh.
I finally figured out what it is about FFXIII I dislike.
Don't get me wrong. I want this game, I want it bad. I'll buy it the day it lands, and play the hell out of it. But it's too sterile. Everything about it, the world, the characters, lack any sort of grit at all. FFX was like this and FFXII kind of slid back that world was a little 'dirty' in parts.
Yet everything I see about FFXIII makes me think of labs, hospitals, and places where a germ wouldn't be seen... ever. I don't like that and I think that's kind of why I liked FFVII and FFVI so much.
Those worlds had grit and grime and death and decay and you could see it, you could feel it.
Nothing about FFXIII looks like that to me. It's as if the whole of the world was made in a test tube and carefully laid out--no touching!--to be seen.
@Friedhamster: trust me, hospitals are quite the opposite of 'sterile'....MRSA, VRE, and my personal favorite C. difficile are rampant everywhere in hospitals...maybe some parts are sterile (ideally) like the OR, but anywhere else is fair game.
@Friedhamster: I haven't seen too much of the game but as I understand it a lot of what we've seen takes place in the city that was designed to be a safe haven from the wilds found below. I see this as bit of a utopian society, so it would make sense that it would seem sterile. Maybe the outer world is more gritty. Then again maybe not.
@Friedhamster: That's why I liked FFVIII. Everybody looked so clean, streets looked like they were regularly swept, and had a very sterile sci-fi vibe going on in a good number of areas.
I'm a fan of hygiene, you see.
And yes, I liked hygiene before it sold out and you could buy their fucking shirts at Hot Pocket.
@Rachel Fogg: Even in FFXII the sewers looked nice. It was like, I don't know, artificial maybe. As if I was playing in the Enterprise's Halodeck. Like the dirt that was there had been placed, bit by bit, by some God.
VI and VII and even those before had a more rugged feel. Compare Chono Trigger to Chrono Cross and you'll see what I mean. Or Vagrant Story to FFVIII
The first thing that made me go, 'Wow' when I played Resident Evil 2 wasn't anything other than the city. The city looked real. It looked like a city would look if zombies had hit a small city. Newspapers strewn across streets, the boards over windows were splintered from zombie attacks, glass bits were on sidewalks, the city looked like a riot had taken place. It didn't look like a perfectly rendered city that had junk dumped into it.
Obviously the Sci-Fi look is what Squenix wants and so be it, but this is the very reason I like Star Wars over Star Trek.
Compare Piccard to Obi-Wan (any movie.) Compare the rebels to the Federation. You see what I mean?
@Friedhamster: But if you think about it, the grit in grime for those games was only there to go along with the storyline. XIII is clean because most of it takes place in a city that's meant to be a utopia. It shouldn't have grit and grime. But you never know, I think some of the game actually takes place on the surface, in which case there might be some filth.
@Friedhamster: Yes, I read right. I should have put more emphasis on the word "like" in my post (e.g., "I like the game for the same reason you dislike it").
@CynicalNinja: No, I was in error. I misread. I thought you were saying that you, like me, liked the game. In which case I thought you'd taken what I said to mean I liked it.
Like I said, I'm very much looking forward to playing the next Final Fantasy installment but... I just wish it was dirtier.
@Bouchart: The "day zero" consumers who will end up playing the game for about 17 hours straight. They need something to splash on themselves before going on a cheetos run!
@Rachel Fogg: I don't understand the hate for this game, especially when people haven't played it. What's so different about this Final Fantasy from all the other Final Fantasies?
Well I can't speak for other people, but I can say that honestly for me...truthfully?
I was burned by the godawfulness of XII, so when I saw XIII I was filled with hope. Then I saw vXIII and immediately began to care more for that then this.
I was one of the PS3 fans that were a little miffed by SE's treatment to the system...then when they made it mulitplatform I will admit..I was pissed. Now..not so much, in fact I'm happy about it now.
Then as I watch for like...3 years, I noticed something progress...there was NO progress in XIII. They kept showing the SAME shit for like 2 E3s/TGS....
Meanwhile vXIII looked more and more and more intriguing. SE revealed more in the less of vXIII then the entirety of XIIIs trailers.
Then more games came out and XIII became less and less.
The final nail in my overall meh toward XIII was the knowledge that Lightning is NOT the main character anymore...there is NO lead in the game...it's kinda like VI....which wouldn't be so bad if I thought SE was still at that 'caliber' of story/character crafting anymore.
I played the demo and I was unimpressed, the summons look awful, the characters while not completely crazy looking now look rather bland.
There's frankly nothing remotely interesting about XIII for me anymore.
But I'm getting the game because I want to support SE for the sole completion of vXIII, BbS and KH3.
The overall mood at SE is toxic and depressing; XIII compliation is a money pit at the moment, SE's rep is in the toilet and this game somewhat shows it, I can't explain it...but it does.
And really...they only have themself or rather...Wada to blame for this.
That's the God's truth right there. Now I would LOVE to be proven wrong about XIII.
If you're looking forward to it then no amount of piss and vinegar is going to make you think otherwise unless deep down in the pit of your stomach...you feel the same too.
If not, then don't concern yourself with my opinion...look to the game with glee! LOL! ^-^
LOL! I'm just saying what I feel about the game...I know I'm not the only one and I'm sure others have different reasons from me.
But honestly...that's what happened. I mean Uncharted 2 has spoiled everything...
I'm not even badmouthing MS...they threw money, SE is a whore like most companies and that's that...
But the quality of SEs games as of late on the consoles have been less then stellar. XIII will sell...but it won't be for the reasons most think...it'll sell because we waited SO LONG for it, it will make the grades because it'll be the best JRPG out on the systems at the moment because frankly it's the ONLY JRPG on the systems at the moment (excluding previous JRPGs).
XIII just looks tired, it looks defeated and much like a has-been pop singer...she'll twirl around and sing familiar songs that we love..
But she's dead inside....
That's what XIII is to me right now and it breaks my heart.
@Rachel Fogg: I think we need a "Disappointed Fans of Final Fantasy" support group or something.
I've been thinking everything you mentioned (except the uncharted 2 bit, since I haven't played the game). In fact, I find myself unconvinced of even purchasing the game. My biggest motivation for it at the moment is "Well, the story and world will be somehow connected to Versus... so that will be good to know."
But who knows, maybe we'll be wrong, and XIII will surprise us with goodness. It just seems to me like the game is taking the genre a step backwards, instead of forward. Which is completely the opposite of what we've come to expect from the series. *sigh*
LOL! If we made such a group we would number in the millions. Everyone has their favourite and least favourite FF. Oldschoolers against Newschoolers etc.
But XIII is different because it looks almost unanimously whether you're a new fan or old....it's looking rather bad at the moment.
As I said before with XIII it just looks tired...it doesn't look like any sort of love or consideration was placed it in.
vXIII LOOKS to be the opposite....
I'm not saying that vXIII will be completely better then XIII, I'm simply saying from the outset that's how it appears. I could be wrong and XIII is better...I dunno.
All I know is that my expectation for XIII is SO LOW that it can't possibly fail to impress me at this point when I play it.
@Rachel Fogg: The pop singer bit is a good analogy. Who knows though, maybe this pop star will make a comeback and be bigger than ever, just like...... for the life of me I can't think of anyone who has really pulled that off correctly before.
So I see that Oerba Yun Fang will be one of the main characters. And I see a lance of sorts, which means she'll easily become my favorite character in the game. #finalfantasyxii
Like...months/a year ago. I dunno where they said it but they first said that Lightning was the main, then that she and Snow were the main to just everybody's in the forefront.
Which I don't like...at all...I'm not making this up I swear.
I was hoping that Lightning was the lead because FINALLY we had a badass female lead that wasn't a pussy white mage/summoner chick (sorry...I don't like pure magic users. Especially if they're female, it's so cliche...)
But that's what I heard, unless they changed it again. I wouldn't be surprised. #finalfantasyxii
@Rachel Fogg:
I never really assumed she wasn't the main character, all the major plot points seem to be related to her mostly, I don't mind the characters "sharing the fame" so to speak, as long as they don't skimp out of a main character like XII.
I would say Terra was a badass female lead, she transformed into a half Esper bag of awesomeness, what more can you ask for! :P #finalfantasyxii
@Rachel Fogg: I like the ensemble set up more than when someone is a clear cut "leader." It makes the game feel more genuine and more like an actual group of people. FFVI is my favorite in the series and it pulled off the ensemble thing perfectly. If nobody is the lead character, and Lightning is still a bad ass, isn't that just as good? #finalfantasyxii
Nah, I never liked Terra...EVER. I was a Celes girl. LOL! It's the same way about Aerith, I loved Tifa more.
But for Lightning, that's what it was eluded to, that she was the main...I'll try to find where I read that she wasn't. I swear I wasn't making it up.
To me, I don't want shared fame...that can lead to disaster like in XII, Vaan and Ashe were SORTA the leads but you spent time like 'caring' about everyone else.
So far from what I see, the only person that seems to have 'depth' is Sazh....
@Rachel Fogg: What about Terra? I mean sure she could use magic and was a confused softy but...
Hey! Celes wasn't some love starved twit. She was a high ranking official in an army and stabbed a crazy guy. I think that makes her a BAMF. #finalfantasyxii
@Rachel Fogg:
I don't doubt that you're being honest haha, I just wasn't aware they were going in that direction.
Hmm, I'd have to say my favourite females from the series are Rydia, Faris, Terra, Tifa, Freya and Fran, I have a feeling Miss black haired Dragoon up there will join those ranks soon though, she seems pretty awesome. #finalfantasyxii
Not to me, because I was hyped for Lightning to BE the lead...it was important to me. Not life or death important but it was something I ALWAYS wanted to see in a FF.
Not an unsure girl with hidden powers. Not a shy summoner or a bitch princess.
Lightning looked to be that one girl to break the mold. Having equal time for people would be AWESOME if I knew SE could do it....they haven't exactly garnered faith in me as of late of handling a story such as that.
From what I've seen of XIII everyone has a story, but CLEARLY the focus is on Lightning, her sister and whatever she is, the bad dude's after her, Snow and her have a history....I mean, all signs point to her and they are just going to have her take turns.
The problem is, someone's story is going to be slighted....if not done correctly.
It's just my thoughts on the matter, I don't like it...I wanted Lightning to be the lead but I'm willing to give SE the benefit of the doubt that they pushed her aside and added the other characters for a reason. #finalfantasyxii
@Rachel Fogg: I was responding to your 10:17 post but got momentarily "sidetracked" jotting down a few ideas for a paper.
As for the love starved twit, it is a reference to something Celes says to... Terra? but I could be wrong. The fact that I can't remember who she says that line to is a testament to my need to replay that game for probably the 10th or 11th time. #finalfantasyxii
I can't recall, it's been ages since I've played VI. Terra just...pisses me off. Playing Dissidia only confirmed my dislike for her. There's only one FF Female I hate with unfathomable hate filled hate and that's Rinoa.
Give her all the powers in the world and would still throw her in front of a bus given a chance LOL! j/k #finalfantasyxii
@Rachel Fogg: I think it's more of a "everybody here is important, and an important and main part of the story" type of thing. In fact, aren't your party members basically the main characters? :P
Though I can see why they are probably they are advertising Lightning and Snow (OK, just Lightning) more. They both are prominent and recognizable icons of FFXIII, and looks like Square is only trying to capitalize on that. Though advertising Lightning more could be based on… "marketing choices in that region" (you know what I'm talking about).
Anyways, don't ever buy these drinks as collectibles (except for bottle caps, whee~), only as drinks. Hopefully this won't end up tasting like cheap sake, though. :p #finalfantasyxii
@Rachel Fogg: You were expecting a female not named Motoko Kusanagi to be a baddass female lead? This is Japan, not a Whedon series. When is the last time a baddass woman has been in anything Japanese and not over sexualized or moe-ized?
FFXIII is an anime cliche drama. To complete that circle they need an ice queen that'll fall head over heels for some guy except shoujo drama, he's dating her sister.
Don't be surprised if super sentai soldiers show up a quarter through the game considering the director and the writer. #finalfantasyxii
@Black-Dog-Howls: When is the last time a baddass woman has been in anything Japanese and not over sexualized or moe-ized?
Seth from Lost Odyssey, Lin from Breath of Fire V, Karin from Shadow Hearts: Covenant, Monica from Dark Cloud 2, Shiki from Samurai Showdown, Sara from Samurai Champloo, to name a few. There aren't many examples, but you get the occasional gem. #finalfantasyxii
@Muckamuck: Now how many of those were largely successful? Champloo itself was canceled once halfway through before being aired on another network and really didn't see a huge following until it came to the US. The only reason GiTS even gets away with Motoko is because it's Ghost in the Shell, a cyber punk legacy.
Let's face it, girls that are strong and not fan service don't sell. I mean, yeah, the girls of Uncharted are great, I love them, but most of us picked up Uncharted 2 to continue Drake's adventure.
The majority of girls that buy FF(majority of girls being important) don't care about female characters. It's the same with manga/anime. They like the boys, they tend to hate the girls. Look at Gintama - there are tons of strong females in it, but all the fan fare goes to the boys because the female fans are the vocal fanbase and they love the slash and the pretty. Second facing it, the vocal FF community is girls. Vaan was dumped into FFXII instead of Basch being the lead because of the female fandom.
Then you have the sad fact that strong women are "intimidating" to the male populace which helped strengthen the moe subculture and taste for subservient girls making characters like Hinata and Hinamori from Naruto and Bleach so popular.
One of my favorite anime series was Witch Hunter Robin. Sure, Robin wasn't some super baddass beat the shit out of everyone and be in charge chick, but she was a good character and not blatantly sexualized through large assets and fan service outfits and by the end of the series she was more than capable and a strong girl. Oh wait, that series failed.
@EvilMetsFan: still a Mets fan.: Both have taken a back seat to the male cast, Jill was given a Mini-skirt and a tube top then turned into a latex fetish blonde.
Oh, and before anything brings up Samus - Zero Suit. #finalfantasyxii
@Black-Dog-Howls: Samurai Champloo was forgive me but a horrible anime series, it had style and everything and the few episodes where they had something of substance kinda dragged.
Ghost in the Shell got popular because Makoto was naked the first time you saw her and the animation was done by the same studio that did the legendary Akira.
Uncharted 2 was about Drake, Elena and Chloe as awesome as they were, were merely plot drivers. They were great but that's essentially what they were. Your focus was NEVER on Elena and Chloe, you were happy to see them but your focus was solely on Drake's adventure so I'm not sure what you're getting at with this. Not a diss at all...just saying.
And you're right, the vast majority of girls NOW buy FF for the boy candy, I wasn't one of them and I'm sure there are plenty of girls that are like me. Hell even when they placed Vaan in XII it didn't do jack shit because all the girls that I KNOW wanted Basch and Balthier...hell even LARSA over Vaan. Vaan was just unlikable to both sexes.
I know nothing of Gitama so I can't help you there, I like Hinata because she's cute, I hate Hinamori because she's useless, just like half the women in Bleach and Naruto saved your Yuroichi and Temari.
And no, having stronger women isn't always intimidating, it depends on WHERE you place them. Putting stronger women in a shounen is generally a bad idea unless you know what you're doing. (Hell, putting women in Shounen that will outshine the boys is worse.....)
And Witch Hunter Robin failed because it was boring as ALL HELL...character designs were boring, far too dark. But I understand why people might have liked it.
You can have all the strong women in the world and it don't mean jack shit if the story and character sucks. I don't care about the fan service if the characters and story good, I'm in the stage of womanhood were so what if the girl's showing skin...can she kick ass? Great!
But if she can just kick ass and have no substance to herself well...we have a problem. I don't think that's Lightning's problem, I think she can kick ass and grow as a character. I don't think her being the lead would be a problem selling the game. Girls like her, Guys like her. SE just needs to know how to sell the game, which they're doing.
I personally just see it as a missed chance. Guys rail on FF for the yaoification, well, a female lead might have helped skew that a little.
Again, these are my opinions on the matter but I agree with the most of what you're saying.
@Rachel Fogg: I disagree with your sentiments on Motoko. Fact of the matter is the GiTS fandom by large is closer to being pretentious than sexually driven. Plus Oshii's adaptation of the source material diverged quite a bit from Masamune's more playful Motoko which came back in the I.G. Stand Alone Complex series. It also used the "fan service" as a measure of how much Motoko cared about herself since, as you might have noticed or not, as the series progressed she increasingly took care of herself and covered up more.
As for Witch Hunter Robin, it failed because people didn't give it a chance. From a writing standpoint it was a spectacular character driven story that built up slowly and then exploded towards the end. It was a mystery shown as a supernatural police narrative.
I can also prove how Moe and over sexualizing a series is more important than strong leads by using a series that's pretty much Witch Hunter Robin tweaked: Darker than Black.
Also, Yoruichi is always sexualized in Bleach. Always. There's rarely a time where she isn't, just like Matsumoto. Yeah, sure, she's strong, and half the time she's half naked.
Besides, a female lead in FF wouldn't skew anything. In fact, it would create a situation where people are even more critical of the character to the point where she could have nothing wrong with her and she'd be bashed. The yaoification of FF precedes the "now" as it got big with FF7. Female leads do nothing to change that and never has.
Lightning by herself can't sell a game. It doesn't hit any real market. The fact that people were making fun of her for looking like Cloud says more than enough. #finalfantasyxii
Nevertheless with Makoto that one scene and the other are frequently used and displayed when talking about GiTS. Being sexualized and being strong AREN'T always bad. Men are just the same...hell one can say now with anime/manga, mangaka are getting the hint about the men and giving more eye candy to the female audience then EVER before, after DECADES of male fanservice...
I don't mind the nakedness or the sexy, as long as the girl can back herself up, Yoroichi can. Not EVERY female character needs to be covered up like a nun, Yoro likes her body and likes to show it off...there's no shame in that. I'd rather have her in Bleach more then Rangiku...and I LIKE Rangiku!
And Bleach gives more fanservice then just about any anime I've seen in YEARS both to males and females....
As for Witch Hunter Robin, there was no selling point, it sucks but it's true...there was nothing in the show that stuck out save Robin's hair. Perhaps if WHR came out later then it did it might have fared better.
I don't necessarily see FF not getting improved because of Lightning or failing because of it. FFVII didn't START getting yaoi-hits for about a year after it came out (everything has yaoi in it just like hentai...) SE saw the doujinshi and the fanfics and ran with it....which oddly enough, was a good marketing choice. (SE loves MONEY!)
And Lightning's design was made to be a female version of Cloud...which I can see. And mostly, the people who rail on her mostly rail because they hate VII...I've even seen Lightning designs 'based' after Squall because of her Gunblade, it's the good old fashion oldschool versus newschool all over again. IMO
The truth is, until we know or play the game, we can't really decided on if we like Lightning or not, hell I played VIII with all the intentions of liking Squall....that failed miserably because I like Seifer more. LOL!
I see it as a chance, you don't....agree to disagree. Like, I agree with most of what you're saying...believe me, but to me, personally, I would've liked to seen it. That's all. #finalfantasyxii
@Black-Dog-Howls: I wasn't concerned with popularity, but that makes sense. I guess if you want to get into popularity, Sengoku Basara is also huge in Japan, and every female character in the series (except for Kasuga, and to a lesser extent, Nohime) fits. Nana is a shoujo series, but Nana Osaki is probably the strongest woman there. Then you've got Bubblegum Crisis and Appleseed.
The more requirements you throw in, the harder it is to narrow down though. But that really says something. #finalfantasyxii
11/28/09
11/28/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
Know who I don't wanna smell? Hope. Seriously, ever smell a kid who just got off a school bus? Being packed in tightly with other grody children doesn't exactly make you smell fresh.
11/27/09
Don't get me wrong. I want this game, I want it bad. I'll buy it the day it lands, and play the hell out of it. But it's too sterile. Everything about it, the world, the characters, lack any sort of grit at all. FFX was like this and FFXII kind of slid back that world was a little 'dirty' in parts.
Yet everything I see about FFXIII makes me think of labs, hospitals, and places where a germ wouldn't be seen... ever. I don't like that and I think that's kind of why I liked FFVII and FFVI so much.
Those worlds had grit and grime and death and decay and you could see it, you could feel it.
Nothing about FFXIII looks like that to me. It's as if the whole of the world was made in a test tube and carefully laid out--no touching!--to be seen.
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
Holy shit...dude...you're...right. XIII is so freaking clean..
XII had dirt...but it was in the form of badly rendered man chests.
11/27/09
I'm a fan of hygiene, you see.
And yes, I liked hygiene before it sold out and you could buy their fucking shirts at Hot Pocket.
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
VI and VII and even those before had a more rugged feel. Compare Chono Trigger to Chrono Cross and you'll see what I mean. Or Vagrant Story to FFVIII
The first thing that made me go, 'Wow' when I played Resident Evil 2 wasn't anything other than the city. The city looked real. It looked like a city would look if zombies had hit a small city. Newspapers strewn across streets, the boards over windows were splintered from zombie attacks, glass bits were on sidewalks, the city looked like a riot had taken place. It didn't look like a perfectly rendered city that had junk dumped into it.
Obviously the Sci-Fi look is what Squenix wants and so be it, but this is the very reason I like Star Wars over Star Trek.
Compare Piccard to Obi-Wan (any movie.) Compare the rebels to the Federation. You see what I mean?
11/27/09
11/28/09
11/28/09
11/28/09
Like I said, I'm very much looking forward to playing the next Final Fantasy installment but... I just wish it was dirtier.
11/27/09
What the hell?
11/27/09
11/27/09
Top: Yellow Peach, Citrus, Aqua Leaf Green
Middle: Lilac, Sweet Rose, Geranium, Mild Jasmin, Mild Gardenia
Last: Sweet Musk, Mild Amber, Mild Woody
11/27/09
11/28/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
...seriously, what is the market for this?
11/27/09
(I kid!)
11/27/09
Well, saying the game will be crap would be too easy...perhaps SE is preparing us?
Maybe this is there way of saying sorry....?
I kid SE, I kid....
kinda.
11/27/09
/Simpsons reference
11/27/09
Fantastic....just perfect. At this point, I can't think of any reference that would be more appropriate then this.
11/27/09
11/27/09
Hmmm...
Well I can't speak for other people, but I can say that honestly for me...truthfully?
I was burned by the godawfulness of XII, so when I saw XIII I was filled with hope. Then I saw vXIII and immediately began to care more for that then this.
I was one of the PS3 fans that were a little miffed by SE's treatment to the system...then when they made it mulitplatform I will admit..I was pissed. Now..not so much, in fact I'm happy about it now.
Then as I watch for like...3 years, I noticed something progress...there was NO progress in XIII. They kept showing the SAME shit for like 2 E3s/TGS....
Meanwhile vXIII looked more and more and more intriguing. SE revealed more in the less of vXIII then the entirety of XIIIs trailers.
Then more games came out and XIII became less and less.
The final nail in my overall meh toward XIII was the knowledge that Lightning is NOT the main character anymore...there is NO lead in the game...it's kinda like VI....which wouldn't be so bad if I thought SE was still at that 'caliber' of story/character crafting anymore.
I played the demo and I was unimpressed, the summons look awful, the characters while not completely crazy looking now look rather bland.
There's frankly nothing remotely interesting about XIII for me anymore.
But I'm getting the game because I want to support SE for the sole completion of vXIII, BbS and KH3.
The overall mood at SE is toxic and depressing; XIII compliation is a money pit at the moment, SE's rep is in the toilet and this game somewhat shows it, I can't explain it...but it does.
And really...they only have themself or rather...Wada to blame for this.
That's the God's truth right there. Now I would LOVE to be proven wrong about XIII.
If you're looking forward to it then no amount of piss and vinegar is going to make you think otherwise unless deep down in the pit of your stomach...you feel the same too.
If not, then don't concern yourself with my opinion...look to the game with glee! LOL! ^-^
11/27/09
11/27/09
LOL! I'm just saying what I feel about the game...I know I'm not the only one and I'm sure others have different reasons from me.
But honestly...that's what happened. I mean Uncharted 2 has spoiled everything...
I'm not even badmouthing MS...they threw money, SE is a whore like most companies and that's that...
But the quality of SEs games as of late on the consoles have been less then stellar. XIII will sell...but it won't be for the reasons most think...it'll sell because we waited SO LONG for it, it will make the grades because it'll be the best JRPG out on the systems at the moment because frankly it's the ONLY JRPG on the systems at the moment (excluding previous JRPGs).
XIII just looks tired, it looks defeated and much like a has-been pop singer...she'll twirl around and sing familiar songs that we love..
But she's dead inside....
That's what XIII is to me right now and it breaks my heart.
11/27/09
I've been thinking everything you mentioned (except the uncharted 2 bit, since I haven't played the game). In fact, I find myself unconvinced of even purchasing the game. My biggest motivation for it at the moment is "Well, the story and world will be somehow connected to Versus... so that will be good to know."
But who knows, maybe we'll be wrong, and XIII will surprise us with goodness. It just seems to me like the game is taking the genre a step backwards, instead of forward. Which is completely the opposite of what we've come to expect from the series. *sigh*
11/27/09
LOL! If we made such a group we would number in the millions. Everyone has their favourite and least favourite FF. Oldschoolers against Newschoolers etc.
But XIII is different because it looks almost unanimously whether you're a new fan or old....it's looking rather bad at the moment.
As I said before with XIII it just looks tired...it doesn't look like any sort of love or consideration was placed it in.
vXIII LOOKS to be the opposite....
I'm not saying that vXIII will be completely better then XIII, I'm simply saying from the outset that's how it appears. I could be wrong and XIII is better...I dunno.
All I know is that my expectation for XIII is SO LOW that it can't possibly fail to impress me at this point when I play it.
11/27/09
Well there goes my last shred of optimism.
10/23/09
*runs* #finalfantasyxii
10/23/09
10/22/09
Really SE? Really?....
Anyhoo, those things were disgusting when I drunk some last year, I don't know what flavor it was but it was diabetes sweet.
Here's hoping for a better drink y'all! #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
When did they say Lightning wasn't the main character? #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
Like...months/a year ago. I dunno where they said it but they first said that Lightning was the main, then that she and Snow were the main to just everybody's in the forefront.
Which I don't like...at all...I'm not making this up I swear.
I was hoping that Lightning was the lead because FINALLY we had a badass female lead that wasn't a pussy white mage/summoner chick (sorry...I don't like pure magic users. Especially if they're female, it's so cliche...)
But that's what I heard, unless they changed it again. I wouldn't be surprised. #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
I never really assumed she wasn't the main character, all the major plot points seem to be related to her mostly, I don't mind the characters "sharing the fame" so to speak, as long as they don't skimp out of a main character like XII.
I would say Terra was a badass female lead, she transformed into a half Esper bag of awesomeness, what more can you ask for! :P #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
Nah, I never liked Terra...EVER. I was a Celes girl. LOL! It's the same way about Aerith, I loved Tifa more.
But for Lightning, that's what it was eluded to, that she was the main...I'll try to find where I read that she wasn't. I swear I wasn't making it up.
To me, I don't want shared fame...that can lead to disaster like in XII, Vaan and Ashe were SORTA the leads but you spent time like 'caring' about everyone else.
So far from what I see, the only person that seems to have 'depth' is Sazh....
:sigh: I dunno.... #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
Hey! Celes wasn't some love starved twit. She was a high ranking official in an army and stabbed a crazy guy. I think that makes her a BAMF. #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
I don't doubt that you're being honest haha, I just wasn't aware they were going in that direction.
Hmm, I'd have to say my favourite females from the series are Rydia, Faris, Terra, Tifa, Freya and Fran, I have a feeling Miss black haired Dragoon up there will join those ranks soon though, she seems pretty awesome. #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
Not to me, because I was hyped for Lightning to BE the lead...it was important to me. Not life or death important but it was something I ALWAYS wanted to see in a FF.
Not an unsure girl with hidden powers. Not a shy summoner or a bitch princess.
Lightning looked to be that one girl to break the mold. Having equal time for people would be AWESOME if I knew SE could do it....they haven't exactly garnered faith in me as of late of handling a story such as that.
From what I've seen of XIII everyone has a story, but CLEARLY the focus is on Lightning, her sister and whatever she is, the bad dude's after her, Snow and her have a history....I mean, all signs point to her and they are just going to have her take turns.
The problem is, someone's story is going to be slighted....if not done correctly.
It's just my thoughts on the matter, I don't like it...I wanted Lightning to be the lead but I'm willing to give SE the benefit of the doubt that they pushed her aside and added the other characters for a reason. #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
What? Did...you read what I said? I SAID I love Celes OVER Terra....LOL!
And who was the loved starved twit? #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
I liked Rydia too, she was adorable..mine were Rydia, Celes, Tifa, Quntis (mmmm) Beatrix, Freya, Lulu (until she became useless...) Paine and Fran.
I agree, I'm looking forward to Fang, having Lightning and Fang counterbalances the Loli bait of Vanille and Serah.
If SE does a good job...which I hope, I'll enjoy it regardless....I just really see it as a missed opportunity, y'know? #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
As for the love starved twit, it is a reference to something Celes says to... Terra? but I could be wrong. The fact that I can't remember who she says that line to is a testament to my need to replay that game for probably the 10th or 11th time. #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
No biggie, it happens....
I can't recall, it's been ages since I've played VI. Terra just...pisses me off. Playing Dissidia only confirmed my dislike for her. There's only one FF Female I hate with unfathomable hate filled hate and that's Rinoa.
Give her all the powers in the world and would still throw her in front of a bus given a chance LOL! j/k #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
Though I can see why they are probably they are advertising Lightning and Snow (OK, just Lightning) more. They both are prominent and recognizable icons of FFXIII, and looks like Square is only trying to capitalize on that. Though advertising Lightning more could be based on… "marketing choices in that region" (you know what I'm talking about).
Anyways, don't ever buy these drinks as collectibles (except for bottle caps, whee~), only as drinks. Hopefully this won't end up tasting like cheap sake, though. :p #finalfantasyxii
10/22/09
FFXIII is an anime cliche drama. To complete that circle they need an ice queen that'll fall head over heels for some guy except shoujo drama, he's dating her sister.
Don't be surprised if super sentai soldiers show up a quarter through the game considering the director and the writer. #finalfantasyxii
10/23/09
Seth from Lost Odyssey, Lin from Breath of Fire V, Karin from Shadow Hearts: Covenant, Monica from Dark Cloud 2, Shiki from Samurai Showdown, Sara from Samurai Champloo, to name a few. There aren't many examples, but you get the occasional gem. #finalfantasyxii
10/23/09
Let's face it, girls that are strong and not fan service don't sell. I mean, yeah, the girls of Uncharted are great, I love them, but most of us picked up Uncharted 2 to continue Drake's adventure.
The majority of girls that buy FF(majority of girls being important) don't care about female characters. It's the same with manga/anime. They like the boys, they tend to hate the girls. Look at Gintama - there are tons of strong females in it, but all the fan fare goes to the boys because the female fans are the vocal fanbase and they love the slash and the pretty. Second facing it, the vocal FF community is girls. Vaan was dumped into FFXII instead of Basch being the lead because of the female fandom.
Then you have the sad fact that strong women are "intimidating" to the male populace which helped strengthen the moe subculture and taste for subservient girls making characters like Hinata and Hinamori from Naruto and Bleach so popular.
One of my favorite anime series was Witch Hunter Robin. Sure, Robin wasn't some super baddass beat the shit out of everyone and be in charge chick, but she was a good character and not blatantly sexualized through large assets and fan service outfits and by the end of the series she was more than capable and a strong girl. Oh wait, that series failed.
10/23/09
10/23/09
Oh, and before anything brings up Samus - Zero Suit. #finalfantasyxii
10/23/09
Ghost in the Shell got popular because Makoto was naked the first time you saw her and the animation was done by the same studio that did the legendary Akira.
Uncharted 2 was about Drake, Elena and Chloe as awesome as they were, were merely plot drivers. They were great but that's essentially what they were. Your focus was NEVER on Elena and Chloe, you were happy to see them but your focus was solely on Drake's adventure so I'm not sure what you're getting at with this. Not a diss at all...just saying.
And you're right, the vast majority of girls NOW buy FF for the boy candy, I wasn't one of them and I'm sure there are plenty of girls that are like me. Hell even when they placed Vaan in XII it didn't do jack shit because all the girls that I KNOW wanted Basch and Balthier...hell even LARSA over Vaan. Vaan was just unlikable to both sexes.
I know nothing of Gitama so I can't help you there, I like Hinata because she's cute, I hate Hinamori because she's useless, just like half the women in Bleach and Naruto saved your Yuroichi and Temari.
And no, having stronger women isn't always intimidating, it depends on WHERE you place them. Putting stronger women in a shounen is generally a bad idea unless you know what you're doing. (Hell, putting women in Shounen that will outshine the boys is worse.....)
And Witch Hunter Robin failed because it was boring as ALL HELL...character designs were boring, far too dark. But I understand why people might have liked it.
You can have all the strong women in the world and it don't mean jack shit if the story and character sucks. I don't care about the fan service if the characters and story good, I'm in the stage of womanhood were so what if the girl's showing skin...can she kick ass? Great!
But if she can just kick ass and have no substance to herself well...we have a problem. I don't think that's Lightning's problem, I think she can kick ass and grow as a character. I don't think her being the lead would be a problem selling the game. Girls like her, Guys like her. SE just needs to know how to sell the game, which they're doing.
I personally just see it as a missed chance. Guys rail on FF for the yaoification, well, a female lead might have helped skew that a little.
Again, these are my opinions on the matter but I agree with the most of what you're saying.
10/23/09
As for Witch Hunter Robin, it failed because people didn't give it a chance. From a writing standpoint it was a spectacular character driven story that built up slowly and then exploded towards the end. It was a mystery shown as a supernatural police narrative.
I can also prove how Moe and over sexualizing a series is more important than strong leads by using a series that's pretty much Witch Hunter Robin tweaked: Darker than Black.
Also, Yoruichi is always sexualized in Bleach. Always. There's rarely a time where she isn't, just like Matsumoto. Yeah, sure, she's strong, and half the time she's half naked.
Besides, a female lead in FF wouldn't skew anything. In fact, it would create a situation where people are even more critical of the character to the point where she could have nothing wrong with her and she'd be bashed. The yaoification of FF precedes the "now" as it got big with FF7. Female leads do nothing to change that and never has.
Lightning by herself can't sell a game. It doesn't hit any real market. The fact that people were making fun of her for looking like Cloud says more than enough. #finalfantasyxii
10/23/09
Nevertheless with Makoto that one scene and the other are frequently used and displayed when talking about GiTS. Being sexualized and being strong AREN'T always bad. Men are just the same...hell one can say now with anime/manga, mangaka are getting the hint about the men and giving more eye candy to the female audience then EVER before, after DECADES of male fanservice...
I don't mind the nakedness or the sexy, as long as the girl can back herself up, Yoroichi can. Not EVERY female character needs to be covered up like a nun, Yoro likes her body and likes to show it off...there's no shame in that. I'd rather have her in Bleach more then Rangiku...and I LIKE Rangiku!
And Bleach gives more fanservice then just about any anime I've seen in YEARS both to males and females....
As for Witch Hunter Robin, there was no selling point, it sucks but it's true...there was nothing in the show that stuck out save Robin's hair. Perhaps if WHR came out later then it did it might have fared better.
I don't necessarily see FF not getting improved because of Lightning or failing because of it. FFVII didn't START getting yaoi-hits for about a year after it came out (everything has yaoi in it just like hentai...) SE saw the doujinshi and the fanfics and ran with it....which oddly enough, was a good marketing choice. (SE loves MONEY!)
And Lightning's design was made to be a female version of Cloud...which I can see. And mostly, the people who rail on her mostly rail because they hate VII...I've even seen Lightning designs 'based' after Squall because of her Gunblade, it's the good old fashion oldschool versus newschool all over again. IMO
The truth is, until we know or play the game, we can't really decided on if we like Lightning or not, hell I played VIII with all the intentions of liking Squall....that failed miserably because I like Seifer more. LOL!
I see it as a chance, you don't....agree to disagree. Like, I agree with most of what you're saying...believe me, but to me, personally, I would've liked to seen it. That's all. #finalfantasyxii
10/23/09
The more requirements you throw in, the harder it is to narrow down though. But that really says something. #finalfantasyxii
10/23/09
10/22/09