I seem to remember one of those rappers the kids are listening to these days...he made a video with a song of his, remixed to Daft Punk, and said video bore striking resemblance to the movie, Akira. 30 Seconds to Mars made a video based on Stanley Kubrik's, "The Shining." These IP owners did not sue, they probably just sat back and enjoyed the compliment—if they even noticed at all.
The problem is the video didn't mock, joke, or poke fun at FFVII AC, so it isn't a parody. It completely rips off that entire scene, pretty much shot for shot. Square-Enix is in their right to sue. Could it be perceived as a bad press move on SE's part? Well, the pop star will survive & the production company should have known better. That's the way I see it. Though the "Chrono Trigger" incident just feels wrong for some reason.
This is fucking ironic because she left JYP and signed with Lee Soo Young's label. Lee Soo Young made a whole music video and a song based around cutscenes of Final Fantasy 10. I guess Square Enix recognizes talent. Lee Soo Young is a phenomenal singer, Ivy is just garbage with big tits.
There you go, awkward Japan...Korea. Just like my icon... get it?
@wazzzup16: Heh, SM entertainment taking over China and Philippines, JYP is going for the the arteries in the US of A.
It looks like Wonder Girls are blowing up in the Statesl. I don't know what happened to R.Kelly and JYP's relationship, but I guess it all went down the "pisser".
@bean is all work and no play: Yes, but I guess it was ok to use SE assets as they please since she sang a marquee song.
On another note, I realize that USA is a big country but isn't it amazing how an "artist" can get so big just by dropping a name at a club and having their videos catapult them to the top?.
I don't know about Japan, but EVERY Korean mainstream and indie musicians/artists/ have to perform at least three live shows EVERY weekend on major network channels and let their fate decided by viewers. From veterans to the noobies, from hip hop to ballad to rock to dance and so on.
Can you imagine Britney Spears doing three live shows every weekend for few months?, she will booed off the stage faster then her ex husband.
@That mop mutant from NES.: I'm not sure what you mean when you mention Lee Soo Young. But, uh... Lee Soo Young was the official singer of the Korean version of FFX. When I was in Korea at that time, there were commercials of FFX everywhere with "suteki da ne"/"eolmana joeulgga" sung by her. So, she didn't just choose to take the song and claim it as her own. She was chosen to sing for the Korean FFX by Square's Korean branch. Ivy, on the other hand, had nothing to do with Square Enix.
This is a big difference from shutting down Crimson Echoes or stifling fair use.
Fantom literally did a scene-for-scene reshoot (not a reference, homage, or parody) of SQEX IP and (here's the important part) charged money for it via digital distribution.
@bvfreund: The money part is less important than you think. Square Enix couldn't give less of a damn about some pop star's music video profits. Money does play a large part of it (and is of course, the be all and end all of everything in business at its core), but more importantly, SE can't have people going around pretending that they are somehow endorsed by SE. It's why they canned the 3d crono fanmake and it's why they went to court with this pop star. You've got a right to control associations with your property worldwide. And yes, that is in the interest of money.
Say the next time someone gets risky with their pop video and goes a llittle strong on the sex appeal, and as a result moms don't buy their kids FF7 Advent Children based on its association with said pop star. O say that the crono remake was buggy as hell and people refused to buy square games until something was done about it. SE doesn't have to be dragged down by others riding their coattails.
To make a musical analogy, SE has a legal and fundamental right to keep people from jumping up on the stage during their set.
@SuperSonik: While they have a legal and fundamental right to prevent people from profiting off their creations, they don't have the right to "keep people from jumping up on the stage during their set." That's where fair use comes in.
The Robot Chicken skit, for example, was fair use even if it affects "associations with their property worldwide" (even though they charge for DVDs, they created something original using FF as inspiration). And if I want to make an erotic comic starring Cloud and Aerith and post it on my website, I can do that.
I can do anything I want with their IP. I just can't simply copy it or charge for it.
But point made that Crimson Echoes looked too much like a SQEX product despite the originality in other areas. I guess it's not such a different situation when you look at it like that.
@SuperSonik: The money part is less important?? Excuse me, but the fact that they (Fantom, or whoever they are) charged money for something that infringed on Square's IP sets the precedent for legal action. If in fact it was a 'parody' and they didn't charge or make a single dollar off of it then I'm pretty sure Square Enix would have still won favour with the courts albeit at a (heavily) reduced penalty to the infringer. It has PLENTY to do with money, and less to do with their image being tainted by tasteless imitations (which I believe is your point, hard to tell, was quite convoluted imo).
@Scottaholic: "I can do anything I want with their IP. I just can't simply copy it or charge for it."
That's not at all the case. Robot Chicken is fine because it is parody. It's a comment/critique on the IP, not a mere derivative. Your comic, on the other hand, sounds merely like a side-story or sequel; courts have found that such is not fair use. See, for example, the recent case regarding the "sequel" to Catcher in the Rye.
Generally, you're in the clear if you're working on something that is primarily "criticism, comment, scholarship, research, news reporting or teaching".
@Scottaholic: I'm not saying no 10-year-olds are allowed to draw cloud with crayons. That falls in with your webcomic. But if they painted it on a city billboard without SE's permission, that's not fair use of their IP and they could have it destroyed if they wanted to.
I guess the nitty gritty specifics of it we can argue about all day is what makes copyright law so damn complicated. No wonder no one knows where to draw the line...
@mrWest: It is, in fact, all about money in the end. Just not the profits of a lousy pop star. She just can't pretend to be endorsed by SE. SE protects their company, which protects their shareholders and their profits.
I do understand what you mean about the legal precedent though. At its ultimate application, there's a very good reason Nintendo can't put cloud in their next game.
@Archaotic: Yeah I didn't know what they were thinking. This clearly goes above and beyond would could be considered fair use rights i.e. parody. The producer should have really consulted a legal team before green-lighting something like this. In this case you can't really put blame on SE for being uptight.
(DEAD) Goldwings - Remembered for his bravery and heroism... xD was starred
(DEAD) Goldwings - Remembered for his bravery and heroism... xD was unstarred
With all this (dick)moves Square is pulling recently about their IP´s im surprised that they didnt touch Dead Fantasy yet.
Yes Im still bitter about Crimson Echoes.
@Chibirazi: It would be sad if they did, only because those videos are so damn awesome! Maybe SE figures dead fantasy has some sort of grassroots buzz they think is helping them out for the time being. He's really at their mercy. If they take him to court, he'll lose even if he didn't make money from sales of anything related to the videos. He'd lose a cut of anything gained from his rise to stardom as a result of using the likenesses of final fantasy characters in the videos.
@Turambar: B> Selvaria Body Pillow: How much of it he took is almost entirely irrelevant. If he profited from their image, he'd own them if they decided to go after him.
Well with how long it actually takes Square to even make a game these days, they have to get paid somehow. We're how many years into this new generation and Squeen has made how many games? Amazing considering the economic recession.
Although I'm sure DQIX made them a pretty penny.
@VileMethoD: Your joking right?
Even though they may not have released a new numbered FF they've released plenty of DS games, Crisis Core, Dissidia, a few 360 games.
They do other things besides Roman numerals.
@Masonvrocks: Damn you half Japanese girls: A bunch of half-assed remakes for the DS, along with a terrible console game that has a 6.2 meta average and a few games they published but didn't develop.
I did enjoy Crisis Core as repetitive and random as it was though. Dissida... Well I get the feeling it's not going to fair so well.
@DTownsu: You mean the game for a hand held that came out over two-years-ago. Yeah, good example. It's amazing how Squeenix themselves can admit they take too long, yet fanboys are still in denial.
@Edairu wants a Phantom Dust 2!: I'm not down with South Korea's judicial system so I don't really know what I'm talking about, but it's possible the punishment itself wasn't increased, but rather some portion of the punishment another court got rid of, the higher court reinstated. It's a possible gamble with some appeals that the court might change something you like out of the decision as well.
@Slatz_Grobnik: The NFL is gambling in this manner to try and get itself what amount to a huge anti-trust exemption from the US Supreme Court. Sometime you can make out a lot better than you would have before by ALLOWING the appeal to actually happen.
Look up anything about the American Needle and the NFL to check this out. American Needle filed an anti-trust lawsuit against the NFL and lost, but the NFL wanted the appeal heard because they are betting the Supreme court will decide they are 30-something separate entities instead of one organization. The league owners will make a killing and the players and fans will get screwed, but that argument is better saved for deadspin.
@Edairu wants a Phantom Dust 2!: Not judging the specific case here, but I actually like that an increase on the value might happen.
Because there shure is tons of people out there who only appeals to gain more time.
What is the point? It's a damn awesome video, I don't understand why they'd really do this. Did they lose money? did people go and buy DVDs of this video instead of Advent Children? Making them pay all that money is jsut silly. I don't get it.
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There you go, awkward Japan...Korea. Just like my icon... get it?
LOL.
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It looks like Wonder Girls are blowing up in the Statesl. I don't know what happened to R.Kelly and JYP's relationship, but I guess it all went down the "pisser".
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On another note, I realize that USA is a big country but isn't it amazing how an "artist" can get so big just by dropping a name at a club and having their videos catapult them to the top?.
I don't know about Japan, but EVERY Korean mainstream and indie musicians/artists/ have to perform at least three live shows EVERY weekend on major network channels and let their fate decided by viewers. From veterans to the noobies, from hip hop to ballad to rock to dance and so on.
Can you imagine Britney Spears doing three live shows every weekend for few months?, she will booed off the stage faster then her ex husband.
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08/04/09
Fantom literally did a scene-for-scene reshoot (not a reference, homage, or parody) of SQEX IP and (here's the important part) charged money for it via digital distribution.
08/04/09
Say the next time someone gets risky with their pop video and goes a llittle strong on the sex appeal, and as a result moms don't buy their kids FF7 Advent Children based on its association with said pop star. O say that the crono remake was buggy as hell and people refused to buy square games until something was done about it. SE doesn't have to be dragged down by others riding their coattails.
To make a musical analogy, SE has a legal and fundamental right to keep people from jumping up on the stage during their set.
08/04/09
The Robot Chicken skit, for example, was fair use even if it affects "associations with their property worldwide" (even though they charge for DVDs, they created something original using FF as inspiration). And if I want to make an erotic comic starring Cloud and Aerith and post it on my website, I can do that.
I can do anything I want with their IP. I just can't simply copy it or charge for it.
But point made that Crimson Echoes looked too much like a SQEX product despite the originality in other areas. I guess it's not such a different situation when you look at it like that.
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That's not at all the case. Robot Chicken is fine because it is parody. It's a comment/critique on the IP, not a mere derivative. Your comic, on the other hand, sounds merely like a side-story or sequel; courts have found that such is not fair use. See, for example, the recent case regarding the "sequel" to Catcher in the Rye.
Generally, you're in the clear if you're working on something that is primarily "criticism, comment, scholarship, research, news reporting or teaching".
08/05/09
I guess the nitty gritty specifics of it we can argue about all day is what makes copyright law so damn complicated. No wonder no one knows where to draw the line...
08/05/09
I do understand what you mean about the legal precedent though. At its ultimate application, there's a very good reason Nintendo can't put cloud in their next game.
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Yes Im still bitter about Crimson Echoes.
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Although I'm sure DQIX made them a pretty penny.
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Even though they may not have released a new numbered FF they've released plenty of DS games, Crisis Core, Dissidia, a few 360 games.
They do other things besides Roman numerals.
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I did enjoy Crisis Core as repetitive and random as it was though. Dissida... Well I get the feeling it's not going to fair so well.
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If you need further reference:
[en.wikipedia.org]
[kotaku.com]
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I know the courts had made their decision and all, but just trying appeal that decision can increase the punishment's severity?
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Look up anything about the American Needle and the NFL to check this out. American Needle filed an anti-trust lawsuit against the NFL and lost, but the NFL wanted the appeal heard because they are betting the Supreme court will decide they are 30-something separate entities instead of one organization. The league owners will make a killing and the players and fans will get screwed, but that argument is better saved for deadspin.
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Because there shure is tons of people out there who only appeals to gain more time.
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