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Denver, 6:23 AM
Tue Dec 22
57 posts in the last 24 hours
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12/15/09
Since i think i'm going to be fairly reasonable, i hope i do not get disemvoweled for what follows.
I rarely enjoy AJ's articles because of the sophomoric writing; Kotaku is ultimately a blog, but there's still an expectation given its role on the frontline of game journalism. But hey, they hired her; i'm hoping she'll find her voice and hone her craft.
With that in mind, this article is sexist, or at least un-feminist. I have no problem with personal anecdotes describing her and her friends' reactions to MW2 -- that's par for the course on opinion pieces.
But a self-identified feminist suggesting that all of the girly things are inherently not feminist, and that being aggressive or warlike is a typical male(-only) fantasy? It's just flawed, and seems to come from a lack of insight into feminism, male/female sex and gender dynamics and individuality -- all of which are implicitly if not explicitly invoked in the article; if you're going to touch on something so inflammatory, i expect some research. One result is a lot of commenters decrying feminism, so this addresses that, as well.
It's partly a case of trying to tar Infinity Ward with intentional sexism when it's instead institutional sexism: the developers aren't trying to exclude women, they simply neglected to include them. This has its own flaws, but it's not "grr womens, they dumb!"; presumably, it's because they failed to perceive women as part of their audience, or thought them to be a quiet minority.
To claim that the bit with the female pilot is sexist is to muddy the still very real issues of sexism, and is misappropriating feminist ideals; AJ has a better point with the total lack of women in the second game, but i don't think she really 'gets' feminism, given the debate about "failing" as feminists. i think she does fail, but not for loving MW2.
"Feminism" is no longer a really accurate term given its purpose; the core tenet of feminism is equality -- not oppressing men, not forcing women into roles they don't want (including in the workplace, if they want to be homebodies), and certainly not defining what it means to be a man or woman.
Female or male is simply determined by biology, while masculine or feminine refers to gender roles or stereotypes which are flexible; not everyone will switch between masculine and feminine appearance or persona, but very few of us go to the extremes of our sexes' stereotypes. To say that women, by definition, are not butch is to completely disregard the progression of feminism. To say that "women are..." anything other than genetically female is missing the point.
I think most would agree that people should not be oppressed, especially by circumstances of their birth; feminists believe this includes people being forced into gender roles that do not suit them. Historically, this justified the movement for suffrage, representation in the workforce, equal pay for equal work, birth control legislation and so on. It's also the reason that feminists were and are heavily involved in the civil rights movements for blacks and gays, beyond their personal overlap.
People who think that feminists are anti-pink things, ponies, men, fun, whatever, are short-sighted. As with any group (Democrats/Republicans, environmental activists, PETA, lawyers, etc.) there are uninformed and outright insane members on the fringes. They might be the most visible (noisy) component of the movement, but they are by no means representative; feminism is not sexism aimed at males, and it's not trying to define 'feminine'. It's a movement aimed at allowing an individual's strengths to shine.
Sometimes, i'm sexist -- i'm not proud of it, but it's a learning process. But otherwise, i think i'm a fair advocate for feminism. I love my kitties, i knit and make jewelry, family is important to me, i like fashion and getting dressed up -- i also know 'manly' men who would say the same. I play WoW, which (surprise!) isn't a boy's club, despite what some apparently think; when i PVP, i'm ruthless. I also enjoy the occasional Halo 2, BlazBlue and Assassin's Creed, along with Audiosurf, the PixelJunk games, drinking and sundry other activities. Point being, i like what i like -- i don't pay attention to what i "should" like because i'm female; i'm sure plenty of lesbians would relate to that. This is what feminism is about -- having the ability to choose.
If you want to be feminist, when you want to be included in something, convey that to the people capable of including you; it means being informed and making an effort to change perceptions, but also picking your fights wisely. Stereotypes exist, and likely will continue to do so; if you don't fit them, say something. AJ, your stereotype of feminists obviously doesn't include being girly, but you seem to consider yourself both these things -- i find that kind of odd.
If you are female and you love MW2, tell people; tell your gaming friends, tell Infinity Ward, tell game retailers. Despite any lofty goals or closely-held ideals, most developers (i.e. companies) ultimately speak in dollars -- convince them that they'll make more money by adding your druthers to a game.
looooong post is long, but i hope it clears up a few things.
12/15/09
We've talked about the liking the playing what you like aspect and I agree - I think the media likes to focus on some of them being very gender-specific. I think what most people forget is that feminism was about having the choice to do what you wanted in a society that wasn't exactly equal. Not imposing things upon any sex. Roles can be interchanged easily, it's just I guess some people lost the plot.
It happens with every movement I guess, (e.g. otherwise Nationalism wouldn't have become Chauvinism and then Fascism) but I am glad there is a growing number of men and women who realize this these days, perhaps not through media outlets but definitely through their own personal interactions.
12/15/09
You got it completely spot on with this:
"with intentional sexism when it's instead institutional sexism: the developers aren't trying to exclude women, they simply neglected to include them."
There is only one part I would disagree with: being able to vote with your dollars (or other currency!). Unfortunately, many industries still operate under the assumptions that women don't have disposable income to spend. Advertisers pay more money for slots when it is assumed that the main audience is male. If lots of women go to see a particular film then it is often described as a "surprise" or a "one-off". Women are regarded as a niche audience for most forms of media (despite being half the damn population!). Video games are no different. I work in a marketing capacity with quite a few major video game developers and I can assure you that you need to remind them constantly that there might be a female audience for their games! Most of the time they just forget us (like you said, institutional sexism). And they don't count our money as being as valuable as a man's. So ultimately, no matter how much money women spend no-one really takes a blind bit of notice, or they dismiss it entirely - which makes voting with your wallet kinda hard. So sometimes I think we have to make a bit of noise if we want concerns recognised.
12/15/09
i grant i could have been more tactful, but i think my biggest issue with the article is the writing, and i'm not sure how to address that less bluntly.
the article suffers from what i perceive as intellectual laziness or inexperience. AJ doesn't seem to have a handle on a style, and she hasn't earned the leeway that the other Kotaku contributors have; i tend to get the feeling of reading someone's first blog instead of Kotaku.
i'm not saying she can't or won't get better, but both my beau and i get irksome whenever we read one of her pieces, and i am less forgiving than he (due to pickiness or the English degree -- hard to split hairs, there.) frankly, i'm just baffled, given the other writers, and her degrees.
i don't care for Luke's articles since he always seems super-bitter and snarky, but i'll still read them because i feel like he's done the legwork. i particularly like Owen's stuff, as he seems to balance a goofy persona with solid observations. AJ just doesn't strike me as having a strong writer's voice or good blog-reporting skills yet, but we can just chalk it up to my pet peeves regarding style; maybe it's just the different approaches of prose and journalism. there are certainly many others who like her writing.
to be honest, i'm unfairly comparing her to the other, definitely more experienced writers. specifically, Maggie Greene, as we started noticing her stuff shortly after Maggie left; i'll just leave it at that.
it is interesting how often people say, "don't mess with things" or "you're being too critical" -- a lot of good changes only came about because people decided they weren't going to allow the status quo to continue. it's a delicate balance to both remember where we've been in history, and know when a particular struggle has ended.
@JenJenRobot: i bow to your superior knowledge of marketing and such, but my point in the final paragraph was to encourage visibly (figuratively) waving your money at the developers, and maybe that'll get results -- along the lines of "put your money where you mouth is." which you also seem to say in your final sentence. :)
i suppose, like television and porn, it will take over-representation and/or largely-feministic production teams to make the diversity of women more visible in games and gaming.
12/15/09
just letting you know i replied; see above. ;)
12/15/09
I agree looking back I do miss Ms Greene's articles. Some of the sites that were linked and all the stuff there was quite informative (Maybe it's because I like to know about stuff even if it isn't directly useful to me I dunno, I like to read and be informed).
Of course, status quos have to be challenged - pretty much most of the time. How boring would it be, if no one tried to change the way things were (unless it were totally perfect, which I believe isn't possible for humans really). I think we'll hit stability at some point sooner than we think.
12/15/09
since people seem unruffled by the length of the earlier post, i'd like to say one more thing about the article.
as i mentioned above, the female pilot getting shot down in MW is hardly an instance of sexism. if anything, it argues for female soldiers as equal to their comrades-at-arms; she is not the first or the last pilot to have her vehicle shot down in these games, and it's just ignorant (and unintentionally sexist and disrespectful) to state that going to her rescue first evokes anything other than the common military ethos of "no [soldier] left behind." you trust these people with your life, and know that at the very least, your family will have a dog tag if you don't make it back. it's been awhile since i've played MW (and i haven't played MW2), but i would assume it is that duty which is being referenced, not sexism.
i fear that i've made it sound like feminism is only by women, for women; if i have, put it down to the 'flavor' of personal perspective. but i hope it comes across that the ideals of feminism are just as applicable to men; stereotypes can be unpleasant, no matter who you are. i'm also pretty sure the first feminist i knew was my Dad. :)
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12/15/09
If a game only had 1 black guy in it, is it raicist?
12/15/09
I prevented myself from using the word "F*m*n*z*" out of respect for AJ, but it's close enough to the truth.
As long as people pretend that there aren't differences between the genders, or try to force that on people, the divide they want to close will just get bigger and the troops guarding it will become more numerous.
Equality is not equivalence. Equality is how one is treated, equivalence means exactly the same - certain feminist sects tend to have selective amnesia about that fact.
I'm not saying that they should be treated different; we are all members of humanity, and all deserving of dignity and respect. But trying to veil one's eyes so as to not notice biological or other differences simply out of pure P.C. snobbishness?
That's a fallacy, and they ought to realize that.
12/14/09
It feels as if they are unable to capture the essence of human interaction between men and women. There are of course notable games, which seem to exceed that, in the case of Uncharted, Drake and Elena make a great on screen duo - unless the feminist pundits would think otherwise.
However, as a man I don't feel I can accurately comment on this issue. I can personally discern the depths of a typical plot and just pin it down to character to character, man or woman, or even man to man. I personally feel that roles are not as important as genuine story telling, an emphasis on recreating true interaction between the sexes.
I personally find it somewhat attractive when women seem to take on traditional roles with pride and strength, but also enjoy seeing them go beyond that. Basically a woman who can feel empowered by simply being a woman instead of constantly attempting to close the gap between masculine and feminine.
Women are beautiful the way they are, just because a she's a helicopter pilot in the Marines doesn't mean she should be just another "guy", there has to be a sense of duty and chivalry from the perspective of a man, not because she is weak, because that is totally not the case, but simply because I feel that it's the duty of a man.
Perhaps my feelings and beliefs might be misguided and foolish, but it's simply the way I was brought up, to show the out most respect to women at all times.
12/14/09
Firstly- and it's been addressed by this point already- you really can't take issue with that helicopter getting shot down. In video games, the helicopter almost always gets shot down. And the pilots are usually male. The men have a far worse track record on that account, I think. I see what you're getting at, though.
Also, as a female gamer, I don't want Infinity Ward to pander to me. I don't want developers to feel they have to do something "special" other than make a fun, engrossing game to appeal to me. I don't want them to put a woman in if she's not the result of their own creative process.
Sure MW2 is "male fantasy." Of course it is. Guns, explosions, competition, camaraderie. It's male fantasy like going buying shoes and drinking cosmos is female fantasy. Both fantasies are essentially cartoons and don't even begin to encompass what men and women are all about. MW2 is not a statement of fact or ideology or preference- it's an adrenaline blast, a thrill ride. Take it for what it is.
The idea that women and girls aren't interested in gaming is such a self-fulfilling prophecy. The idea persists that women are elusive and thus we get inundated with dress up and horsey riding and baby sitting shovelware. I almost wonder if crap like that sitting on the shelves doesn't enforce the idea for women (who don't play) that the "real" games are for the men... the truth is as a woman gamer I've never (at least while I'm actually playing a game) had to feel like I'm not allowed in the treehouse. The games that I played extensively over the last year- Fallout 3, Valkyria Chronicles, Uncharted 2, Demon's Souls, Mirror's Edge, LittleBigPlanet, Bioshock, Resident Evil 5 (on the PS3 alone)- all come to mind. These are all brilliant games that any human being can enjoy.
The way I see it, this stuff is already out there, and I just won't begrudge MW2 for being what it is. Sure, it probably sold as much as most of the above titles I named combined, but I didn't get upset at the scarcity of women in the ensemble casts of Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, and Apocalypse Now (even if MW2 isn't on the same artistic level as those films by a long shot)- and I won't take issue with the new Call of Duty for the same reasons. Really, we can exist within the "male fantasy" every time we pick up a controller and play Call of Duty, Gears or Killzone. No one's keeping us out of the VIP club, and it's not every game's job to represent all groups.
12/14/09
Mm, very good points. Maybe the self-fulfilling prophecy is the same for how "developed" games become as well. Very few games will be advertised on anything except being.. er .. young male fantasies (even if the games are different), after all..
12/14/09
12/15/09
Did you think "wow the female soldiers are better than the guys" or did you not think anything on the issue?
I ask since 3 of my girlfriends have noticed this and have stated this factoid to me. They pretty have the same mindset as AJ's article :S
12/15/09
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12/14/09
he pulled a knife out of his chest!*
/SPOILER*
12/14/09
I do not put my mic on because I am tired of people being mean because I am a girl gamer who is new and learning this particular genre. I think its more important to prove that girl gamers are not like you in order for some of us to get some respect. I am tired of being treated like someone who will squeal over the hotness of a character.
i just want to play a fun game with people and be treated as an equal regardless of what my avatar happens to look like.
12/14/09
Secondly, some of your arguments involve several "leaps of faith" to seemingly support your games are sexist agenda.
It's a pretty far stretch to say that a game is sexist for not featuring any female just as it would be to say a game is racist for not featuring any minorities.
I can go on and on about this but its easier to say that your argument (no matter how well intended) bring shame to the cause you hope to support.
12/14/09
And that position is quite accurate, and not about to change any time soon.
For that matter, I'd also suggest that "sexist" is too restrictive a term (and WAY too prone to causing kneejerk reactions - as a glance at all the comments below us indicates). "Narrow Minded" makes more sense here, or perhaps "Short Sighted" if you're being optimistic. It's a problem endemic to the game industry as a whole, and the presence or lack of women is only a minor subset of that concern, all things considered.
On the other hand, I'm going to have to completely disagree with your analogy regarding a theoretical game not featuring any minorities. Assuming the game is set on a world stage like MW2, where you'd expect to see people of all backgrounds, this tactic is called whitewashing. And whitewashing is indeed a form of passive -often unintentional - racism.
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12/14/09
In which direction is this being sexist? The single assumption being made here is that man can't get over their masculine instincts long enough to follow orders and act with discipline.
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12/14/09
Here's the thing you're forgetting: Women have no choice but to exist in a world catered to men. Important point, when we ladies ask to be "catered to" (read: included) as AJ is here, you get all the bullshit sexist comments below saying she's "finding something to complain about" and etc. Way to make your argument guys. Thumbs up.
What I also find interesting is that the guys are getting all up in arms about the fact that these "art-school feminists" are sitting around chatting about "crushes on videogame protagonists" and claiming this is more damaging to women than any of the other obviously sexist examples AJ listed in this article.
What I believe these (you?) guys are not seeing here is that while these women were able to play and react to the game as humans (like, their genitals didn't prevent them from being immersed in game play) once out of gameplay, they related to the male-centric cast with lust instead of, I guess, taking on the accomplishments of their characters as their own, as a dude would? What should they have been talking about after finishing the game? From what I read here, they found the game immersive, the characters well written and developed, and they also happened to find them attractive (even though they couldn't see some of their faces--what does it mean?!). Are you suggesting they...should react to the game as a man would, too? Or that they not play the game at all, if that's what they're gonna talk about!
On this point, I'm confused, you see. Enlighten a girl.
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12/14/09
When I was doing army training a couple of years ago when one of the women called Sara begged our Sergant to let her do the training with the men. She told him that she had watched us do training and she could do it better. Our Sergant humored her and let her do one exercises
The exercise was we had to cary each other out of a "hot-zone". Sara was pumped she could do pushups,pullups,situps you name it for hours on end while I could hardly do any for 10 minites. She bragged that she would get the fastest time.
Anyway we put on our suits and lined up: I was told that I had to go first and drag my mate 350 feet
I did it quickly, very quickly it was much easier then I had anticipated
All the rest of us did it and we all did it quickly
until Sara
she was last and she had to drag me the 350 feet.
She started pulling me. She could hardly pull me 100 feet. This, the women who could do physical EXERCISE for hours could hardly pull me 100 feet.
I'm all for sexual equility but if me or my mate were under fire and my female Squad-mate couldn't pull me or him out of fire and get one or both of us killed then they have no business in the frontlines.
12/14/09
Well any soldier, male or female getting caught is a scary thought :S
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War, action, and awesome, on the other hand, aren't the domain of just one sex, much less one gender. I'd love to play a game based on some badass pants-wearing Russian partisan men and women.
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12/15/09
How can gender have little place if it's a tremendous masculine fantasy? What men (including me) often forget is that masculinity is also a gender. Gender is productive especially in those areas where you can find only/mostly one of them. That men equate gender issues with women's issues says a lot about the power structure encoded in this dichotomous construct.
12/15/09
Though upon reflection I can't think of anything our culture considers as feminine as war is masculine. Man, our society sucks sometimes.
I'm a male, (not particularly manly) and I'm writing a thesis on gender studies. I certainly didn't mean to equate gender issues with women's issues.