After standing in a green house, inquire why its warmer in there then outside.
Don't come out until you realize something linking your being hot and some possible global warming.
If you think that global warming is some big hoax, you are ignoring every scientist ideals reinforced by evidence present, and listening to the most part at the ideals of old people who don't care because they will be dead soon and don't want to spend money on something like the "environment."
Edited by (Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! at 09/30/09 10:17 PM
(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! was starred
(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! was unstarred
It was quite the environmental disaster when the guitar hero tanker ran aground. I can't get the pictures of the poor dolphins that beached themselves with guitars stuck to their dorsal fins out of my head, to this day.
Of the three metrics, the "Environmental Impact Score" seems the most empirical, covering data capturing "the total cost of all environmental impacts of a corporations global operations," according to one firm. The data is then normalized against a company's revenues to produce a truer metric, whatever the hell that means.
If I understand this correctly, they determine the EIS from "cost of all environmental impacts." Those impacts are made up of a bunch of factors, but four they called out to emphasize were "greenhouse gas emissions (including nine gases in total, with carbon dioxide the most important in many cases), water use (including direct, purchased and cooling), solid waste disposed, and acid rain emissions (sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and ammonia)." I'm not quite sure how they quantify the cost from that data, though - probably their own metric instead of any kind of dollar value.
As for the normalization, that's essentially a ratio between the EIS and the revenue so everybody is measured on the same scale. A larger company will pollute more by volume simply because they're bigger, but that doesn't mean they'll pollute more proportionately compared to a smaller company.
These places don't really care about going green unless it saves them money or nets them more customers (i.e. revenue), nor should they. If their going green has higher economic costs than benefits, why should they do it? To help lower pollution? If so, at what cost? If you let these video game companies go, they will help the environment in their own, indirect way. They will make games better for cheaper. People won't have to pay as much, and will spend their money on other things. Invariably some of these "other things" will be more efficient, cost effective products that will ultimately reduce negative environmental impact, thus giving these companies the resources and incentives to develop these technologies further, and so the cycle goes.
Put up with pollution now, let the economic machine work, and wait for efficiency, efficiency which will come long before any environmental doomsday, and which of course is already salient; just look at China as the polluter the U.S. used to be, and see how far we've come, how far China can go, and how unlimited the potential we have really is.
@BigManMalone: It's a nice thought, but I don't think the invisible hand automatically works for less environmental impact. Money people save might just go toward buying another sofa, you just can't know.
Either people have to be incentivized to spend that extra money on green tech, or Activision needs to be prodded, by govt regulation or piddling name-and-shame articles like Newsweek's.
@BigManMalone: Wow, it's all so clear, you've beaten the environmental scientists at their own game. You can clearly see the future and know exactly how to deal with massive problems that teams of researchers have been nutting out for the past two decades.
/sarcasm
It's ignorant bullshit like this that is causing MASSIVE problems when attempting to deal with the issue of climate change and environmental impact. Mentioning China is just a cop out. Oh noes, they emit 21.5% of worldwide carbon, which is so massive compared to the US's 20.2%.
Saying that we can wait is insanely stupid. No use having companies if we pass the point of no return.
Trust companies to make things cheaper for people because they pay less on environmental protection costs.
Trust people who now have extra income (not really, though), to spend that money on environmentally friendly products, instead of Hummers.
Trust that environmental efficiency will come with no external promptings, because it's inherently the future.
Trust the economic machine that has collapsed on numerous occasions, especially when allowed to run free, to not collapse in on itself again and to work properly and efficiently.
As long as you trust plenty of completely bullshit concepts, this plan can't fail.
@jetRink: Yes, money people save might go to sofas. It might, and some almost definitely will, go to more efficient products, because those will be the ones that save people money. For your point to be valid, you'd have to show either that people won't buy less wasteful products or that if they don't it will matter. I see no reason why either of these would be the case. If the resource is important, it will cost money and people will want to make more with less; if the resource is unimportant, or abundant, then people won't care until it becomes scarce, and then it will cost money, gradually becoming more expensive in proportion to the resources availability, but the technological benefit that will have been accrued by the time the resource is exhausted is incalculable. Back to your main point though, I honestly don't see why you think people have to be forced into doing what is rational: buying energy-efficient products if the energy is worth conserving.
@BigManMalone: Well, let's not choose energy. Say instead it is something valueless like a river passing through a company's property. Imagine the company and the customer can both derive benefit using the river for waste removal. There is a negative externality for anyone downstream which isn't included in your calculus. Perhaps the people the company is affecting can bribe the company to stop, which would be rational, but it's not necessarily the kind of world I want to live in.
Scientists? Why trust them? They have an enormous incentive to exaggerate global warming or any other environmental "threat," for the primary reason of gaining increased funding and greater relevance.
As far as China is concerned, you have to keep in mind that the U.S.'s GDP is almost double China's if you take the purchasing power estimate over the official exchange rate which is distorted by China's attempt to keep its currency low-value; if you do take that estimate, however, it's over three times as high. So, at worst, America has double China's GDP but still has lower carbon emissions, according to you. Sounds like a great deal to me.
We can wait. We won't reach the point of no return. If you unleash people's self-interest, technological innovation and pollution will grow, but technology will so outpace pollution that it won't be a problem for long. Making a half-hearted effort to "save the environment" by constraining human productivity is like a deer standing in the headlights; once you start to cross the road, go full speed ahead, don't stop.
1. They will make things cheaper by passing on the savings, or they will make more revenue by avoiding regulations. That money is invested, growing the economy, making everything better for everyone on average.
2. They will have more money, and they will spend it on things besides Hummers if it is rational to do so, and if it is not, why should they?
3. Well, if you consider rational choice to be "inherently the future," then yeah, but I don't think that it will "just happen" without any identifiable reason.
4. Only trust it (the economy) if it is free (laissez-faire capitalism); it has never collapsed because it was, and it will always function properly and efficiently.
No regulation does not mean no laws. That situation entirely depends on what the agreement was at the time. If the company was there first, and someone simply bought the land without extracting any agreement from this company, then he has no right to force the company to stop.
If someone was already living there, and the company comes and buys up some land nearby and is physically transferring waste onto this person's property, then it is legitimate for the government to stop that action and force the company to repay whatever damage was done by it, but this is a matter of property rights, not "environmental justice."
@BigManMalone: And you did it all with Ayn Rand as your avatar.
And yet... we already know that without regulation that companies tend to form monopolies that then price gouge and abuse the customer. It's almost as if companies and the truly free hand of the market don't have consumers' best interests at heart... hmmm...
@sortius: You're a fool to think that the scientists don't have just as much a conflict of interest as the corporations. Most of the science money is from grants. No one gives grants for unimportant research. So, if you can inflate the importance of your research and your field, Bingo, to money comes rolling in.
1. The only monopolies ever to have existed were government sanctioned.
2. Price gouging is not a negative aspect of unregulated capitalism; it provides an incentive for suppliers to supply.
3. It is not abuse if the transferring of values is consensual.
4. Companies don't have the consumers' best interests at heart; they have their own, which is what they should have. Through a man's own self-interest and innovation, his achievements contribute to the well being of all men, at no cost to them. You should be grateful.
I find your attitude towards the world disturbing.
The thing is most people who share your views of "Making a half-hearted effort to "save the environment" by constraining human productivity is like a deer standing in the headlights" are delusional.
Here's a little suggestion, go to the third world and live among the underbelly of society and live in a polluted area as many third world areas have become due to unchecked corporations and growth. Live near one of those acclaimed "SEZ zones" and not as a manager but as a worker working there.
You'll find that self-interest mostly only works for those that have the oppurtunities and that enviromental effects of not worrying about pollution are devastating.
Just do it for a year, you'll go away with your views changed. I promise you, its harder to be so so cold when you see so much poverty, you'll want to help them, not go on about "self interest" and such. The truth is they are getting the short end of the stick not becasue of their lack of skills but because of where they were born. They suffer the effects of enviromental destrucation not you. They suffer from the problems of "lassez faire". I don't believe in communism or anything, but unchecked capitalism not good either. Personally capitalism has many benifits, but there has to be a balance. You can't sustain total capitalism, it just doesn't work.
Technology is expanding, more people are being born and the likes, and this is all great, but at the current rate of population increase the earth will not be able sustain itself for 2 thousand more years. Not even 200. It doesn't take a scientist to figure that out, just do math. As it stands, we can barely support the 8 billion people comfortably, and 16 million just wouldn't work, period.
Nothing is being blown out of proportion when it is said if we do not find a solution soon, it will be to late to actually do anything about the problems our generation has to face. I don't know how old you are, but I will still be fairly young when all of this becomes a issue, so I care, and I care a lot.
@BigManMalone : When I build a spaceship and go to Mars you can't come because you will just end up letting the exact same thing happen that is going to destroy this pollution ridden planet we live on now.
@BigManMalone: Yes, this is why it was so great to live during the industrial revolution. Corporations, unregulated, cared so much about the people, and always made sure that they were making them the best products at fair prices to make better markets!
/sarcasm
You have it all wrong. You're the misguided soul not allowing them to break out of their miserable situations. You think I don't have sympathy? You think I don't care about them? You think I think that they "deserve" to be there and were not simply unfortunate enough to be born into their circumstances? That's not the case at all.
The system I advocate is the only way to improve the conditions of the impoverished on a permanent basis. No other way will ameliorate their situation better or faster.
@BigManMalone: eh I don't see how ignoring pollution and climate change helps them? please explain how the system you advocate helps them? also i'm not a misguided soul, i'm not one of those bleeding heart people who believe in no personal responsiblity so don't think that.
I was simply using "point" in his context. We won't reach the point where pollution outpaces pollution-countering technology if we abide by the right system.
The fact that someone has an agenda is irrelevant; it all depends on what that agenda is, whether it is moral or immoral.
On the whole it helps by allowing technology and techniques to develop that make life better for all people, not the least of which are the poor. But take a specific example:
If you regulate companies that pollute, you restrain their revenue. If they have less revenue, they have less to invest in improving their business, so food prices stay the same, or even worse, go up. If you let them go, they will compete with their competitors to become more efficient, and then prices will fall because productivity has risen; it takes less to make more. If they become more profitable but don't lower prices, the competing companies will, once they become as productive, and then food prices will again fall. If neither company lowers its prices, but raises productivity, then they now have more to invest in other companies, some of which will unavoidably benefit the poor by making some good or service better or cheaper or more available.
@Jay Jay Deng: Imma let you finish, but Penn and Teller they had a good show but the EPA has far better up to date information about recycling.
I'm even doing my bit by recycling this bloody awful meme, reusing it and making it into a useful way of educating people that recycling works.
I'll probably have to go around and do some searching as which stores have the big clam shells on what, as the Wii points at the store I work at is the only one in that packaging while the Live and PSN cards are just left out as is.
The special 'Lost and Damned'-branded Microsoft points came in a jewel case that can only hold a frakking card-sized object. WTF?
At least the early Wii Points jewel cases could be reused for an actual disc. (It contained a disc-shaped point card. Clever!)
For MS points, it depends where you go. If you go to Rogers Video (in Canada), they come in clamshell packaging, but anywhere else and they come just like any other gift-card/itunes card, etc. Wii Points I've only ever seen in clamshell packaging, however.
And I've never actually seen PSN cards anywhere, ever.
You should see the packaging for the cards in the UK, the wii and 360 points cards are placed in DVD cases which instantly become useless, as once you have the code, there is no use for any of it, due to the fact that its actually a DVD case with no slot for your DVD, only a slot for the card istelf.
so unless you cant a gigantic case to hold a business card in, it just gets chucked, and probably contains more plastic then those cases shown.
@YoshiPictor:
That may be true for the 360 cards, I wouldn't know. But the Wii ones are actually normal DVD cases just with a bit of circular card in the slot and the actual points card attached to a manual. Still a little useless but spare DVD cases caren't completely worthless.
09/30/09
09/30/09
Do you even know what are you talking about?
Not trying to insult you but really.
09/30/09
After standing in a green house, inquire why its warmer in there then outside.
Don't come out until you realize something linking your being hot and some possible global warming.
If you think that global warming is some big hoax, you are ignoring every scientist ideals reinforced by evidence present, and listening to the most part at the ideals of old people who don't care because they will be dead soon and don't want to spend money on something like the "environment."
09/30/09
09/30/09
If I understand this correctly, they determine the EIS from "cost of all environmental impacts." Those impacts are made up of a bunch of factors, but four they called out to emphasize were "greenhouse gas emissions (including nine gases in total, with carbon dioxide the most important in many cases), water use (including direct, purchased and cooling), solid waste disposed, and acid rain emissions (sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and ammonia)." I'm not quite sure how they quantify the cost from that data, though - probably their own metric instead of any kind of dollar value.
As for the normalization, that's essentially a ratio between the EIS and the revenue so everybody is measured on the same scale. A larger company will pollute more by volume simply because they're bigger, but that doesn't mean they'll pollute more proportionately compared to a smaller company.
09/30/09
Put up with pollution now, let the economic machine work, and wait for efficiency, efficiency which will come long before any environmental doomsday, and which of course is already salient; just look at China as the polluter the U.S. used to be, and see how far we've come, how far China can go, and how unlimited the potential we have really is.
09/30/09
Either people have to be incentivized to spend that extra money on green tech, or Activision needs to be prodded, by govt regulation or piddling name-and-shame articles like Newsweek's.
09/30/09
/sarcasm
It's ignorant bullshit like this that is causing MASSIVE problems when attempting to deal with the issue of climate change and environmental impact. Mentioning China is just a cop out. Oh noes, they emit 21.5% of worldwide carbon, which is so massive compared to the US's 20.2%.
Saying that we can wait is insanely stupid. No use having companies if we pass the point of no return.
09/30/09
Trust companies to make things cheaper for people because they pay less on environmental protection costs.
Trust people who now have extra income (not really, though), to spend that money on environmentally friendly products, instead of Hummers.
Trust that environmental efficiency will come with no external promptings, because it's inherently the future.
Trust the economic machine that has collapsed on numerous occasions, especially when allowed to run free, to not collapse in on itself again and to work properly and efficiently.
As long as you trust plenty of completely bullshit concepts, this plan can't fail.
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
Scientists? Why trust them? They have an enormous incentive to exaggerate global warming or any other environmental "threat," for the primary reason of gaining increased funding and greater relevance.
As far as China is concerned, you have to keep in mind that the U.S.'s GDP is almost double China's if you take the purchasing power estimate over the official exchange rate which is distorted by China's attempt to keep its currency low-value; if you do take that estimate, however, it's over three times as high. So, at worst, America has double China's GDP but still has lower carbon emissions, according to you. Sounds like a great deal to me.
We can wait. We won't reach the point of no return. If you unleash people's self-interest, technological innovation and pollution will grow, but technology will so outpace pollution that it won't be a problem for long. Making a half-hearted effort to "save the environment" by constraining human productivity is like a deer standing in the headlights; once you start to cross the road, go full speed ahead, don't stop.
@Ad-hominem:
1. They will make things cheaper by passing on the savings, or they will make more revenue by avoiding regulations. That money is invested, growing the economy, making everything better for everyone on average.
2. They will have more money, and they will spend it on things besides Hummers if it is rational to do so, and if it is not, why should they?
3. Well, if you consider rational choice to be "inherently the future," then yeah, but I don't think that it will "just happen" without any identifiable reason.
4. Only trust it (the economy) if it is free (laissez-faire capitalism); it has never collapsed because it was, and it will always function properly and efficiently.
All concepts check out. Evaluation Complete.
09/30/09
No regulation does not mean no laws. That situation entirely depends on what the agreement was at the time. If the company was there first, and someone simply bought the land without extracting any agreement from this company, then he has no right to force the company to stop.
If someone was already living there, and the company comes and buys up some land nearby and is physically transferring waste onto this person's property, then it is legitimate for the government to stop that action and force the company to repay whatever damage was done by it, but this is a matter of property rights, not "environmental justice."
09/30/09
And yet... we already know that without regulation that companies tend to form monopolies that then price gouge and abuse the customer. It's almost as if companies and the truly free hand of the market don't have consumers' best interests at heart... hmmm...
09/30/09
I should know..... I'm a scientist :/
09/30/09
1. The only monopolies ever to have existed were government sanctioned.
2. Price gouging is not a negative aspect of unregulated capitalism; it provides an incentive for suppliers to supply.
3. It is not abuse if the transferring of values is consensual.
4. Companies don't have the consumers' best interests at heart; they have their own, which is what they should have. Through a man's own self-interest and innovation, his achievements contribute to the well being of all men, at no cost to them. You should be grateful.
09/30/09
I find your attitude towards the world disturbing.
The thing is most people who share your views of "Making a half-hearted effort to "save the environment" by constraining human productivity is like a deer standing in the headlights" are delusional.
Here's a little suggestion, go to the third world and live among the underbelly of society and live in a polluted area as many third world areas have become due to unchecked corporations and growth. Live near one of those acclaimed "SEZ zones" and not as a manager but as a worker working there.
You'll find that self-interest mostly only works for those that have the oppurtunities and that enviromental effects of not worrying about pollution are devastating.
Just do it for a year, you'll go away with your views changed. I promise you, its harder to be so so cold when you see so much poverty, you'll want to help them, not go on about "self interest" and such. The truth is they are getting the short end of the stick not becasue of their lack of skills but because of where they were born. They suffer the effects of enviromental destrucation not you. They suffer from the problems of "lassez faire". I don't believe in communism or anything, but unchecked capitalism not good either. Personally capitalism has many benifits, but there has to be a balance. You can't sustain total capitalism, it just doesn't work.
09/30/09
ENVIRONMENTAL
DANGERS
ARE
A
PROBLEM
Technology is expanding, more people are being born and the likes, and this is all great, but at the current rate of population increase the earth will not be able sustain itself for 2 thousand more years. Not even 200. It doesn't take a scientist to figure that out, just do math. As it stands, we can barely support the 8 billion people comfortably, and 16 million just wouldn't work, period.
Nothing is being blown out of proportion when it is said if we do not find a solution soon, it will be to late to actually do anything about the problems our generation has to face. I don't know how old you are, but I will still be fairly young when all of this becomes a issue, so I care, and I care a lot.
@BigManMalone : When I build a spaceship and go to Mars you can't come because you will just end up letting the exact same thing happen that is going to destroy this pollution ridden planet we live on now.
09/30/09
/sarcasm
09/30/09
The system I advocate is what would allow you to build that spaceship. Also, "fair prices" are whatever people are willing to pay.
10/01/09
You have it all wrong. You're the misguided soul not allowing them to break out of their miserable situations. You think I don't have sympathy? You think I don't care about them? You think I think that they "deserve" to be there and were not simply unfortunate enough to be born into their circumstances? That's not the case at all.
The system I advocate is the only way to improve the conditions of the impoverished on a permanent basis. No other way will ameliorate their situation better or faster.
10/01/09
10/01/09
I was simply using "point" in his context. We won't reach the point where pollution outpaces pollution-countering technology if we abide by the right system.
The fact that someone has an agenda is irrelevant; it all depends on what that agenda is, whether it is moral or immoral.
@SinghS:
On the whole it helps by allowing technology and techniques to develop that make life better for all people, not the least of which are the poor. But take a specific example:
If you regulate companies that pollute, you restrain their revenue. If they have less revenue, they have less to invest in improving their business, so food prices stay the same, or even worse, go up. If you let them go, they will compete with their competitors to become more efficient, and then prices will fall because productivity has risen; it takes less to make more. If they become more profitable but don't lower prices, the competing companies will, once they become as productive, and then food prices will again fall. If neither company lowers its prices, but raises productivity, then they now have more to invest in other companies, some of which will unavoidably benefit the poor by making some good or service better or cheaper or more available.
09/30/09
I know is not him, but hey it's a chance to blame him for something more ^_^
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
Somebody recommend this for multi-tap, this man (or woman) deserves a gold star.
09/30/09
09/30/09
I'm even doing my bit by recycling this bloody awful meme, reusing it and making it into a useful way of educating people that recycling works.
10/01/09
Comment of the week no doubt about it.
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
I think it will please him, actually.
He'll just slather that puppy down with more refined oil and concentrated orphan tears.
08/04/09
08/04/09
08/04/09
At least the early Wii Points jewel cases could be reused for an actual disc. (It contained a disc-shaped point card. Clever!)
08/04/09
And I've never actually seen PSN cards anywhere, ever.
08/03/09
so unless you cant a gigantic case to hold a business card in, it just gets chucked, and probably contains more plastic then those cases shown.
08/04/09
That may be true for the 360 cards, I wouldn't know. But the Wii ones are actually normal DVD cases just with a bit of circular card in the slot and the actual points card attached to a manual. Still a little useless but spare DVD cases caren't completely worthless.
08/03/09
08/03/09