That's cool and I'm going to probably pick this up but I feel this confirms what I and others have suspected for a while now. Creative Assembly/Sega is limiting the modding community and witholding proper modding tools purposefully for monetary gain and while I love them for giving us the Total War series, I hate them for doing this.
Now, before people scream conspiracy theory at me, let it be known that this was suspected for a relatively long time.
I see the confirmation in this article from the unlocking of the Native American factions. Now, I could be wrong, it's been a while since I played the American campaign, but I'm pretty sure the Native American factions had a varied unit roster so minus a couple of new units that might have been added for this expansion, I think it's safe to assume that the "new" factions in this expansion are the same factions already in the game except unlocked for the player. That's something that could have and would have already been done by the modding community, as it was in previous games.
This begs some questions. Is this going to catch on elsewhere? Will other developers/publishers follow the example that CA/Sega have set? If so, where does it end? We've already heard how Blizzard plans to charge for usermade maps, giving the proceeds to the modder...which no doubt Blizzard will get a share of, who's next? Will our last bastion of hope (Valve) change their ways for some extra money in the bank when they release their new engine?
I know I'm ranting but I'm worried. The huge modding community on PC is one of the biggest reasons I'm primarily a PC gamer and to see it not only die but die at the hands of the industry itself is just disheartening.
Maybe I'm completely wrong, maybe CA/Sega is witholding the modding tools to perfect them for the community and maybe this expansion is something crafted with TLC and love but the signs say otherwise.
At least we'll know who to blame for setting things in motion.
@-MasterDex-: I hope the modding community survives this decade, I remember being heavily into it back in the days of UT. It felt a lot more fun for me back then.
Also last week would've been a good time to pick the game up as it was going for as low as £15 at most online retailers. It's back up to £30ish now but I'm sure it'll go down again.
As long as you're willing to do the Naval battles oldschool (as in, don't actually do the combat, just autoresolve) its pretty good, standard total war. The ship to ship combat is pretty awful though.
@captain zach america: It may just be that this is the time period that interests me the most, (Don't get me wrong I love Rome and MTW2) but its the most fun I've had in a TW game.
I never liked this time period though. Rome and Medieval times with the melee and bow/arrow is just so much more epic than lots of guys with guns shooting at each other across fields.
You'd be surprised how easily melee units can overwhelm and take down those guys with guns.
Remember in Rome how some of the best units were Javelin throwers, who if used right, you could formation them to pelt the shit out of approaching units before charging into HTH? They might have not been as strong as dedicated combat units, but they were usually enough to cause a route.
Same thing here. You guys some natives hiding in the trees to rush musket units when they get near the woods and its all over.
Its more fun to not march regiments around, actually, and try to guerrilla warfare the game. :)
@Komrade Kayce: I love going Guerrila style in Empire.
I like to leave one or two regiments out in the open to lure in the enemy, moving them up bit by bit and drawing them into my ambush.
As for gunpowder battles, you can't go wrong with a double envelopement, works a treat every time....provided you can get your flanks into position before it's too late.
@Komrade Kayce: Why do you fell the ship combat is awful? In comparison to what other fabolous ship combat game i might ask? IMO ship combat is THE main reason to buy this game.
@Komrade Kayce: Pirates! ??? No way man, unless you mean the first version from way back C64 Style...and then the comparison is botched..
Wooden Ships.... Havent played it so Ill give it a try and get back to you?
What I really was aiming for is what you feel is bad with ETW. Pinpointed so to speak Sure it would be nice to have more elements such as land/reefs and stuff. But as far as the battle goes i feel it is pretty worked through..
@Ducce: I have to agree with my communist buddy on this one, the naval battles were a nice addition and a good idea for Empire but they ultimately fall flat and quickly descend into boredom.
This is really starting to annoy me about why this wasn't patched earlier at launch. This has been one of the things that have put me off buying this game and hopefully it's fixed in the patch as I really enjoyed the rest of the TOTAL WAR games.
@Krigo's EDGE: You haven't tried the game yet and it annoys you? Now I'm not one to judge but surely if you enjoyed all the other Total Wars (which had their own share of bugs initialy) then a bug with sieges wouldn't be an issue for you. It certainly wasn't for me and definitely was never a gamebreaker for me.
Whoa there Sega! WTF?! Selling advantages now? Seriously! WTF?!
I honestly hope no one buys the DLC. While paying for maps is one thing, paying for units, weapons, etcthat give you an upper-hand in battle is deplorable.
@-MasterDex-: Remeber the days when you got better units/more maps/cool unlocks in general as a reward for persisting with the game, instead of just for forking out more cash?
@Char Aznable: I'm not trying to troll, I'm adressing an issue I see creeping it's way into gaming. I love Empire: Total War and I know I'll probably get the new units but these are elite units that give an advantage in online play and charging for addvantages I think is wrong. You end up splitting up the community and making the winner more likely to be the one who payed the most money rather than the one who was more skilled.
@JonathanStrange: @Char Aznable: @Valnen: In this case, the DLC is affordable and it certainly won't ruin Empire's multiplayer game but the trend of selling advantages in general that's creeping into gaming is worrying.
Take this example:
A new FPS hits. It contains a ranked system whereby you level based on skill (much like Battlefield or COD4), as you rank up you unlock weapons, perks, equipment, etc. You reach max rank and you're proud that you've unlocked everything and have tuned your kit to the best it can be with a kickass M4 as your main weapon. Suddenly, the developers release paid DLC of a new version of that M4 that is better in every way to the one you got through ranking up. They charge $5 for it. Now, you've got people running around with that new weapon and owning everyone who still carries the old M4 and didn't buy the DLC, now it's become more about who payed more than who has more skill.
How is that not worrying? Sure, like I said above, this DLC isn't going to ruin the game but it's still giving advantages to those who pay the price that those who don't pay won't have, whether that be through diversity or strength, it's still a paid advantage.
EA tried do the same thing with Battlefield until the gaming majority made them reconsider but how long is it until this trend gets taken too far?
@-MasterDex-: Even with Battlefield Heroes they decided that selling a gameplay advantage would be a bad idea, and that game's revenue model is wholly based on microtransactions.
@SunKing: Much like the pre-order units, see that nifty "single player campaign requirements" line? That means - and feel free anyone who has either to correct me - that these units are probably SINGLE PLAYER ONLY.
"Once you've purchased the content, you will unlock all new 14 Elite Units of the West in the single player campaign under the conditions below. They will also be available in multiplayer and single player battle modes, when playing with the appropriate faction."
@-MasterDex-: Ok, honestly, I know this is not the point....
But, 1. If you are so serious about the game/ playing people online (and this wasn't just a single player update) would you really have that much of an issue for some paid DLC?
2. It's $3.50. Who can't afford that?! There are 9 year olds with jobless father's who are still giving their kid an allowance of $5 a week....You bought a $60 game, that's awesome, that you love playing online....and for $3.50 more...its MORE awesome....Stop bitching....I could FIND $3.50 in a week on the ground. Shit man, I found $5 two days ago...
2)I never complained about the price and said that I'd probably end up getting the new units. It's the practice I'm unhappy with, i.e. selling advantages to players that others for whatever reason won't be able to get.
@Char Aznable: It's part of the same issue, if pre-ordering nets you an advantage over other players online, it's just as bad as if paid DLC gives you an advantage.
@-MasterDex-: Who said it nets an advantage? Being good at a game nets an advantage, should they build in megahandicap software? It's just extra content.
@Char Aznable: There's nothing wrong with winning a game because you're good at it, in fact, that's the way it should be. There is something wrong when you're winning the game because you payed money for the better units, weapons or whatever.
Does anyone ACTUALLY play Empire online? Empire is a single player game. Paying for 'New maps' doesn't really apply to the game, and new units don't throw off the balance in a single player game.
That said, I wish they'd actually fix the game first.
@ReconToaster.: I've played it online quite a bit and there's always a shit-ton of games going.
I also wish they'd fix the games problems first.
@Char Aznable: They're playable against people who don't have the units.
@ReaveT: Yes the battles are limited by money but the new units aren't so much more expensive than the elite units already in the game so switching one elite unit out for one of the new ones isn't going to limit you all that much.
But, this is beside my point, as I said, in this case, the units aren't so bad but it's the practice that is and these are just the first of many new units, etc through DLC. There is now a shop button in-game that shows there'll be more DLC coming.
I'd also like to add another point. The units in the game already had very little variation in them and while the 14 free unit changes might have mixed thigns up a bit, the selection is still very bland for a lot of the nations which seems to have been intentional now since if the variety already existed, people would be less likely to pay for the new units to add variety.
There's another worrying point about this new business model also. With DLC being pumped out galore and no date or indication of a date coming for the SDK, it would appear that CA are turning their back on the modding community that has kept them alive for so long and if that's the case, that's even worse than charging for advantages.
The modding community and the mods of Total War are what made the game so damn good. mods like Rome: Total Realism, Europa Barborium and Stainless Steel are all much better than the vanilla games they're based off of and now with Empire, it seems we'll have none of that.
Man, I bought Epmire Total War a couple of days after it came out and have only played it twice. I just can't get into it for some reason. Company of Heroes has ruined me on virtually all other RTS games.
If only this patch could have come last week. I spent over 20 hours finishing up on my Swedish campaign during the first 3 days of summer. After all that, after meeting the 'world domination' objectives, after taking over all of Central and Eastern Europe, and nearly destroying Spain... every single one of my save points suddenly became 'corrupt,' and loading them consistently causes my game to crash to the desktop.
@mondog: I'm not trying to lessen your problem but I haven't had any problems other than crashes caused by out-of-date display drivers. You sure it's the game that's the problem?
10/07/09
Ancient times, dark ages, modern, even futuristic is all fine with me. Colonial just sems so.. dull for some reason.
10/07/09
10/07/09
@Coquiton: I hate naval battles too! ahhhh, this game is so not for me
10/07/09
Meaning all of India, North Africa, North and Central America, and the trade theaters of the Ivory Coast, East Indies, and Brazil.
Only the story campaign takes place in colonial America, and that's pretty gay anyway.
10/07/09
But it is very good.
10/07/09
10/07/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
Now, before people scream conspiracy theory at me, let it be known that this was suspected for a relatively long time.
I see the confirmation in this article from the unlocking of the Native American factions. Now, I could be wrong, it's been a while since I played the American campaign, but I'm pretty sure the Native American factions had a varied unit roster so minus a couple of new units that might have been added for this expansion, I think it's safe to assume that the "new" factions in this expansion are the same factions already in the game except unlocked for the player. That's something that could have and would have already been done by the modding community, as it was in previous games.
This begs some questions. Is this going to catch on elsewhere? Will other developers/publishers follow the example that CA/Sega have set? If so, where does it end? We've already heard how Blizzard plans to charge for usermade maps, giving the proceeds to the modder...which no doubt Blizzard will get a share of, who's next? Will our last bastion of hope (Valve) change their ways for some extra money in the bank when they release their new engine?
I know I'm ranting but I'm worried. The huge modding community on PC is one of the biggest reasons I'm primarily a PC gamer and to see it not only die but die at the hands of the industry itself is just disheartening.
Maybe I'm completely wrong, maybe CA/Sega is witholding the modding tools to perfect them for the community and maybe this expansion is something crafted with TLC and love but the signs say otherwise.
At least we'll know who to blame for setting things in motion.
09/22/09
09/22/09
Also last week would've been a good time to pick the game up as it was going for as low as £15 at most online retailers. It's back up to £30ish now but I'm sure it'll go down again.
09/22/09
As much as I want and am looking forward to Napoleon, I was worried we wouldn't get an expansion.
I would still be happy if they expanded the African continent...
09/22/09
Do you like to play as the scrub africans and try to make power bids for the world, too? Or is that just me.
09/22/09
09/22/09
I'll be here, waiting for you. WE SHALL OVERCOME YOU, WHITEY.
09/22/09
*sniffle*
I may well have just thrown my 360 in the trash, the Total War series are so good.
09/22/09
09/22/09
It's done by the guys who did Rome.
As long as you're willing to do the Naval battles oldschool (as in, don't actually do the combat, just autoresolve) its pretty good, standard total war. The ship to ship combat is pretty awful though.
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
I never liked this time period though. Rome and Medieval times with the melee and bow/arrow is just so much more epic than lots of guys with guns shooting at each other across fields.
09/22/09
You'd be surprised how easily melee units can overwhelm and take down those guys with guns.
Remember in Rome how some of the best units were Javelin throwers, who if used right, you could formation them to pelt the shit out of approaching units before charging into HTH? They might have not been as strong as dedicated combat units, but they were usually enough to cause a route.
Same thing here. You guys some natives hiding in the trees to rush musket units when they get near the woods and its all over.
Its more fun to not march regiments around, actually, and try to guerrilla warfare the game. :)
09/22/09
Like, I really loved Age of Mythology by ensemble studios but didn't really like Age of empires 3. time periods!
@Komrade Kayce: Hmm, sounds actually very interesting.
I like the idea of guerilla warfare. Good change.
09/22/09
09/22/09
I like to leave one or two regiments out in the open to lure in the enemy, moving them up bit by bit and drawing them into my ambush.
As for gunpowder battles, you can't go wrong with a double envelopement, works a treat every time....provided you can get your flanks into position before it's too late.
09/22/09
09/22/09
Wooden Ships and Iron Men
Pirates!
Are examples of good ship combat.
Empire is not.
09/22/09
Wooden Ships.... Havent played it so Ill give it a try and get back to you?
What I really was aiming for is what you feel is bad with ETW. Pinpointed so to speak Sure it would be nice to have more elements such as land/reefs and stuff. But as far as the battle goes i feel it is pretty worked through..
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/03/09
I'll be looking forward to playing another campaign with all these fixes.
09/03/09
09/03/09
09/03/09
09/03/09
06/23/09
I honestly hope no one buys the DLC. While paying for maps is one thing, paying for units, weapons, etcthat give you an upper-hand in battle is deplorable.
06/23/09
06/23/09
06/23/09
06/23/09
@JonathanStrange: @Char Aznable: @Valnen: In this case, the DLC is affordable and it certainly won't ruin Empire's multiplayer game but the trend of selling advantages in general that's creeping into gaming is worrying.
Take this example:
A new FPS hits. It contains a ranked system whereby you level based on skill (much like Battlefield or COD4), as you rank up you unlock weapons, perks, equipment, etc. You reach max rank and you're proud that you've unlocked everything and have tuned your kit to the best it can be with a kickass M4 as your main weapon. Suddenly, the developers release paid DLC of a new version of that M4 that is better in every way to the one you got through ranking up. They charge $5 for it. Now, you've got people running around with that new weapon and owning everyone who still carries the old M4 and didn't buy the DLC, now it's become more about who payed more than who has more skill.
How is that not worrying? Sure, like I said above, this DLC isn't going to ruin the game but it's still giving advantages to those who pay the price that those who don't pay won't have, whether that be through diversity or strength, it's still a paid advantage.
EA tried do the same thing with Battlefield until the gaming majority made them reconsider but how long is it until this trend gets taken too far?
06/23/09
06/23/09
06/23/09
06/23/09
06/23/09
"Once you've purchased the content, you will unlock all new 14 Elite Units of the West in the single player campaign under the conditions below. They will also be available in multiplayer and single player battle modes, when playing with the appropriate faction."
06/23/09
06/23/09
But, 1. If you are so serious about the game/ playing people online (and this wasn't just a single player update) would you really have that much of an issue for some paid DLC?
2. It's $3.50. Who can't afford that?! There are 9 year olds with jobless father's who are still giving their kid an allowance of $5 a week....You bought a $60 game, that's awesome, that you love playing online....and for $3.50 more...its MORE awesome....Stop bitching....I could FIND $3.50 in a week on the ground. Shit man, I found $5 two days ago...
06/23/09
2)I never complained about the price and said that I'd probably end up getting the new units. It's the practice I'm unhappy with, i.e. selling advantages to players that others for whatever reason won't be able to get.
As dirtface so eloquently put it: Slippery slope!
06/23/09
06/23/09
06/23/09
06/23/09
Does anyone ACTUALLY play Empire online? Empire is a single player game. Paying for 'New maps' doesn't really apply to the game, and new units don't throw off the balance in a single player game.
That said, I wish they'd actually fix the game first.
06/23/09
I also wish they'd fix the games problems first.
@Char Aznable: They're playable against people who don't have the units.
@ReaveT: Yes the battles are limited by money but the new units aren't so much more expensive than the elite units already in the game so switching one elite unit out for one of the new ones isn't going to limit you all that much.
But, this is beside my point, as I said, in this case, the units aren't so bad but it's the practice that is and these are just the first of many new units, etc through DLC. There is now a shop button in-game that shows there'll be more DLC coming.
I'd also like to add another point. The units in the game already had very little variation in them and while the 14 free unit changes might have mixed thigns up a bit, the selection is still very bland for a lot of the nations which seems to have been intentional now since if the variety already existed, people would be less likely to pay for the new units to add variety.
There's another worrying point about this new business model also. With DLC being pumped out galore and no date or indication of a date coming for the SDK, it would appear that CA are turning their back on the modding community that has kept them alive for so long and if that's the case, that's even worse than charging for advantages.
The modding community and the mods of Total War are what made the game so damn good. mods like Rome: Total Realism, Europa Barborium and Stainless Steel are all much better than the vanilla games they're based off of and now with Empire, it seems we'll have none of that.
06/19/09
06/18/09
I cried.
06/18/09
06/18/09
06/19/09