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Denver, 3:26 AM
Sat Nov 28
39 posts in the last 24 hours
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Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
11/03/09
It's still the best piece of gaming journalism I've ever read, to this very day. #japan
11/03/09
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11/03/09
Monster Hunter did not become a million selling, market-changing title until Portable 2, which added lots of new content and allowed for 4 player ad-hoc play. The local play-it-with-friends aspect is what made it big in Japan: friends introduced each other to the game, and it spread massively.
Monster Hunter 3 and Frontier both have subscription based multiplayer, and their playerbase is quite small considering the popularity of the franchise.
Japanese are not curious when it comes to new gameplay hooks or ideas, and as a result as unwilling to play online in large numbers, esp. as many of them have an image of it costing to play.
11/02/09
Also, online gaming is their weakness. They are wary of it. Their online communties are underdeveloped, and the seriousness and value they expect in their game's online components are very base-level compared to western games, even non-existent. For us, any new game without some sort of online component to it can feel 'imcomplete' as a package.
Takeuchi-san's comments are a very insightful and honest constructive criticism of the Japanese gaming industry. One that most Japanese gamer's are wont to admit to themselves.
Japanese gamer's are their own worst enemy. When the Japanese game industry pulls itself out of this self-inflicte rut and inspires them; Japanese gamers will also be the very ones to save it. #japan
11/02/09
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11/02/09
Having played every FF since 7 and a few of the earlier ones as well as a lot of other Japanese RPGs, I'm quite tired of the turn-based stuff. The combat systems that deviate from the Jap-formula (Star Ocean, for example) simply don't offer enough options to be engaging, turning the game awfully dull.
If they don't come up with some original games/concepts, their market really doesn't deserve to survive (outside of Japan). #japan
11/02/09
11/02/09
Almost any RPG you play has a degree of turn-based elements, whether that's a "cooldown period" in WoW, or the time bar the new FF XIII is implementing (which looks like it will be an interesting re-invention of the series). Sure, there are some JRPG's that have gone stagnant, but there are many that are attempting to re-invent themselves, and doing a dang good job of doing so if you ask me.
Japan obviously has more to offer than just their RPG's, but I felt the need to reply to that statement at least. #japan
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
These? These are tears of joy! I swear! #japan
11/02/09
11/02/09
It's not like the Western games/gamers are the bastion of light in the gaming world nor is Japanese games/gamers backwards and afraid.
I think right now, we need more risks period from both West and East. Truthfully I see more 'risks' coming from the West...but it could be just media spin.
All I do know is that after I played Uncharted 2....I know I want MORE from my games now, that game just raised the bar higher. Whether East or West...they need to step it up IMO. #japan
11/02/09
After Uncharted 2 set the bar so high for production and story, there's only going to be a few action games now that can meet my standards.
Ironically, great games make me buy less games. #japan
11/02/09
ROFL! Okay so I'm not alone in the 'Great games make me buy less games' department.
I mean I'm saying that U2 is the greatest game ever! It's just that game was like the union of so many great developers. (I never played COD4 but I heard great things about it ^-^)
I frankly don't know what's happening in Japan, Capcom is on the very few companies to cross success this gen. I don't really want my Western Games to become more Japanese nor my Japanese games become more Western....I like them both well.
But I would be a fool to admit that the spark in Japan is waning or isn't at it's former luster anymore.
I really don't know... #japan
11/02/09
11/02/09
True, but apparently the quirks that once kinda 'shined' in Japan is sorta...well, not really doing it anymore. Japan's buying the same sequel after sequel just like the Western's. It's no real difference....
Plus, it's getting expensive to make games this gen, not every company has the money to port on 'current' gen consoles...they have to go to the PS2, GBA or PSP....and that might not generate the funds either.
Right now, the West and European market are receiving all the attention and it might SEEM that Japan is languishing...but honestly....we're all just speculating. #japan
11/02/09
11/02/09
:nods: Japan is indeed the land of handhelds, but they have pretty extensive public transportation from what I believe (I could be wrong).
Even still, handhelds are still a risk albeit cheaper, the market is so saturated with -insert random wacky moe/ecchi/pervy/etc game- that the developers really has to strike gold to make a dent.
The same can be said about in the West, FPS dominate the market (much to my chagrin...) but to create a FPS you have to contend against 'Haloclone' or 'Gearsclone' or 'Halflifeclone' whatever.....
What do you do? #japan
11/02/09
The business of one upping the latest masterwork with tens or hundreds of millions of dollars behind it is not sustainable; fragmentation occurs as individual niches are catered to with less money but more focus. #japan
11/02/09
Agreed, however even if that model applies or even works...it's gotten to the point that everything now is instantaneous.
The internet can now easily make or break anything and it can also make it appear that there are more fans then in reality exists.
Not to mention the larger companies are beginning to get hip to 'niche' companies and are buying them up faster then you can blink.
Every company at one point started out as niche...hell Altus was uber niche until recently. #japan
11/02/09
You can respond instantly to the community, and know it's size, because they're communicating directly with you. You have metrics. You build from there.
If you want to see the future, pay attention to Facebook games and Flash apps. Not the quality, that'll improve, but the method.
Edit: To be clear, that's: rapid iteration, initial bare bones implementation, and community driven feedback mechanisms for growth.
11/02/09
I'm always willing to take a risk on a quirky game because those are usually more free from the endless, but fun, barrage of bullets and gore that I usually encounter.
I appreciate the japanese mien for RPGs of all types, even though the storylines are usually pretty atavistic (ty for proving me wrong, Demon's Souls...sequel plz) and full of supermodels with impossible hairstyles; impossible for me, anyway.
I think Japanese developers are just frustrated in the same way western devs are. There's so much push to create more of the same and make it successful that people feel drowned in their creativity.
Then, you give them a superstar status and interview the crap out of them, of course they are going to go crazy. Though, none quite as crazy as Kojima and Itagaki...yet. One day we'll wake up to a story of Miyamoto humping a toaster in public, or extolling the virtue of thumbtack enemas.
Mark my words. #japan
11/02/09
Being as WoW-addicts (or other MMOs) are probably the closest US counterpart to the hikkomori, I find it odd that Japan wouldn't have a big thing for MMOs. I know they don't have the RTS bug either (which is also pretty big in the US and Korea), but why is that? Is Blizzard ignoring them, or have they just failed there before? #japan
11/02/09
11/02/09
On a related but personal note: Tdira rules. That is all. #japan
11/02/09
No, I don't think Japanese gamers are solely responsible for the decline of the the Japanese gaming market, but they are a huge contributing factor for the developmental divide. #japan
11/02/09
There isn't a problem with the Japanese market. Japanese gamers still like games tailored for the Japanese. The only thing different in the present compared to the past is that Western gamers no longer want to play Japanese games. Publishers and developers in Japan could sell to both the Japanese and Western market with the same game. Now they can't. The issue is with publishers and developers unwilling to produce games tailored to specific audiences. You can see the same type of problems in on the PC where PC gamers complain about recent PC games that are little more than cheap console ports by publishers and developers that can't even bother to change the controls and menu, much less create a game suited for the platform and the users. They want to homogenize the market because it's easier to sell their products that way. #japan
11/02/09
So that's what I mean when I believe Japanese developers are divided into a want to/have to scenario for specific markets they develop for. I'm not saying Western design is more appropriate for the present, it's just what's more valued and consumed globally at this time.
I think there's a strong interest in Japanese development to cater for their own market, but like I said, unless their willing to produce at lower costs, they need a better market to profit from. #japan
11/02/09
Most of what I know of Japanese games is JRPG's though, so my experience may be rather limited, but that's just a major thing I see in JRPG's. The game often simply feels like it's there just to throw a story in, to promote character development, or to give the player a choice to take the story down a path they themselves find more interesting. Dating sims are a prime example of this.
11/02/09
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11/02/09
that's exactly what you'll need to
do--lead by example.
Maybe because it's fresh in my mind, ( edit: stick with it! I'll get to my point! :P)but this reminds me of the time during the beginning of Japan's adoption of it's now-current writing style, a style which had major difficulty being hashed out during the 1890's and early 1900's. Writing before that was vastly different than colloquial Japanese; it relied heavily on Classical Chinese and Heian-style prose. During the Meiji period the Japanese knew their writing system and style needed an overhaul, specifically after seeing what writers from the West were producing.
The threshold between the old and the new was there-people knew it existed and that leap needed to happen, yet nobody knew exactly how to do it. The task was delegated to popular writers of the time, and it was a 50-year long work in progress.
Basically what I'm saying, is that there is indeed the need for Japanese gamers to wake-up and make some changes in their playing style, or it's possible they will be left behind, and only be able to watch from the sidelines as Western gamers partake in new and exciting ideas and experiences. Much like that visible threshold of the 1900's, when Japan knew they needed to move forward, yet nobody really wanted to step up to the plate, so to speak. Gamers in Japan can't wait 50 years to catch up. They can't wait for developers to hand-hold them towards the future, they need to make their own way there, and if they don't show any initiative and let developers know they are interested, then nothing is going to happen.
I don't buy the excuse they aren't interested-I just think they don't know what to, well...do.
Which is quite strange actually, because Japanese can be quite progressive, especially technologically-wise.
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
Maybe development has become stagnant, or it hasn't. If it has become stagnant, simply making Japanese games more like Western games isn't the right way to go about solving the problem, and isn't addressing the issue. #japan
11/02/09
I'm not saying that I agree 100% with what Takeuchi-san is saying. But I do think from a historical context there is a small bit of truth to his statement, that's all I'm saying. Besides, this really doesn't have anything to do with Japanese games becoming more Westernized. He just wishes for a more Western viewpoint and raises an interesting question. Why don't Japanese like gaming online? Where is that curiosity to try new things? I don't see any harm in asking such questions.
Also just to point out, Western literature had quite a huge influence on Japanese literature, and actually they did sort of abandon the classical Japanese writing style. I wouldn't say completely, but they did borrow quite a bit from the West. I think it was more about accessibility for a broader audience, not about making it "un-Japanese" though. #japan
11/02/09
First and Third Person Shooters and sports are the games that are most prominent when looking at online console games. They also happen to be the most popular game types enjoyed in North America and Europe. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that those same types of games aren't loved the same way by Japanese gamers.
Now ask yourself, what type of game is popular in the Japanese mainstream and do they have robust online play? It doesn't matter if gamers are curious when the games they enjoy simply don't have an online component. The ones that do, such as the examples given of Monster Hunter and Final Fantasy XI, do receive a relatively large amount of success. At the moment the only way to enjoy an online console experience is to play those types of games (Western games) that they don't particularly enjoy. Can you blame Japanese gamers for not embracing online play (like Takeuchi is doing here)? Let's flip the situation around: do you think Western console gamers, the ones that put hours and hours into Halo, CoD, Gears of War, etc., would embrace online games the same way they do now if the only thing they could play was Monster Hunter, Final Fantasy XI, and Demon's Souls? What if the only games that have a strong online component are niche games, with only a handful of mainstream games having robust online elements?
To answer the question of why Japanese console gamers don't embrace online gaming the same way the West does you must look at the type of games being offered.
There's also another issue that has nothing to do with games. When we speak of online gaming on consoles, the idea of a situation like Xbox Live is the image we get. The main form of communication between players is voice chat. Now think about proper Japanese etiquette. I'm seeing a problem here. I admit my understanding of this only comes from my time playing FFXI and a few courses centered on Japan in university. But I know I feel uncomfortable speaking to strangers even though this has nothing to do with proper etiquette, and I imagine Japanese console gamers might feel the same way.
At the moment, it is impossible to divorce online console gaming with Western games because playing Western games is the only way to enjoy online gaming (with those rare exceptions). So when you're asking why there aren't more Japanese gamers playing online, what is really being asked is: Why aren't Japanese gamers playing Western games?
I assume we're only talking about consoles here because if you include PC MMORPGs it becomes a non-issue.
TLDR; Japanese gamers do enjoy online gaming, it's just that there aren't many online "Japanese" (in terms of gameplay and design) games.
Edit: This turned out to be pretty long for a post no one will read.
11/02/09
Online play is hindered so much, SO MUCH, by the people who are actually online playing it. I can't stand to listen to anymore racist/sexist/homophobic comments, background noise, some dude just talking to his friend or any of the other stupid crap that comprises most of the the online experience I've come to know. The only games I really play online are Uncharted 2 and Warhawk but I immediately mute everyone upon entering a room. #japan
11/02/09
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11/02/09
I played PS1 JRPGs obsessively. Beating many of them multiple times with maxed out parties.
But WoW never snagged me precisely because it has core foundations very different from JRPG's. For instance: I can't stand the idea of having to play with other players to beat certain bosses. I beat all of my JRPGs completely solo. All content was available to me solo. All dungeons. All bosses. All weapons and equipment. Any time a game holds back certain content and forces me to party up with other people in order to reach said content, it pushes me away from the game. I want to play the game on my terms, not anyone else's.
The good news is that Japan still seems interested in JRPGs with Dragon Quest selling so well. And the West is still interested in JRPGs like Final Fantasy. The problem is that there are too few AAA JRPGs coming out. If a new Final Fantasy came out every even year, and a new Dragon Quest came out every odd year, I'm convinced we'd see Japan become a dominant force like it once was.
11/02/09
I actually think the push toward AAA quality is not necessary for good JRPGs. I'm not sure what would help them though, I'd say more innovation but I really liked Dragon Quest VIII. I guess the problem is I think the games have become horribly formulaic as of late, or that they have lost some spark that they used to have.
As well I don't know that Japan can ever become a dominant force like it once was, the gaming market in the U.S. has shifted and grown significantly. I'm not talking about casual gamers either, hardcore gamers tend towards different games than they used to and the market caters to it. #japan
11/02/09