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Sustenance
01:07 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
Even if you don't have any "real-life" gamer friends, you can still carry the "red idiot Toads" through the levels to gain items... they just run back and forth in place when you set them down. It's great fun, actually. Like playing with a grandparent.

It's difficult to fault gamers who wanted an online experience with NSMB-Wii. Nintendo made a judgment call about resources - think of all the development hours that would have been wasted polishing the online mechanic (which we all know is less than robust on the Wii). These hours were put into the game itself and it freaking shows.

I approach "online multiplayer" modes with trepidation. Obviously this puts me in the minority here, but its exclusion from non-traditional genres always leaves me a little relieved. If anything, I was more disappointed that Nintendo didn't include a four-player same-room competitive multiplayer for Super Mario Kart Wii. That was an absurd design choice, following the same "reasoning" that left online multiplayer out of NSMB. So I respect the nerd rage over this, even if I don't share it.

Spirit Tracks box art:

"Does it show that Americans want a tougher, more aggressive Link? 'Not at all,' he replied."

Semantics. American audiences may be able to live without a "tougher, more aggressive" Link in the games, but they want him to look tougher and more aggressive on the box art. Europeans, on the other hand, apparently enjoy a colorful train ride through the countryside with a princess. #newsupermariobroswii
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(Human) Gyaruson
12:41 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
Say want you want about Nintendo, the Wii or anything of the sort, but this guy knows how to handle the press. He hears concerns and rather than just making up some bullshit that doesn't address the issue, he actually agrees with what was presented but is still able to sound like the end result is still a satisfactory conclusion.

Personally, I love Reggie. He can kick my ass and take my name any day. #newsupermariobroswii
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BryanGuitarDude
12:55 PM

@(Human) Gyaruson: I first heard of reggie when he was doing the whole. "And we can now safely say that super smash brothers brawl will be coming in November blah blah blah!" o_o *complete silence* I thought he was a tool. But in time I actually got to like his way of handling things with the press. He's a cool guy. #newsupermariobroswii
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TRT-X
12:35 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
I would be more inclined to want on-line for NSMBWii if the Wii had a more convenient means of voice chat.

As it stands now, I wouldn't want to play a game such as this without being able to communicate with those I was playing with.
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Edited by TRT-X at 11/16/09 12:36 PM TRT-X was starred TRT-X was unstarred

spiderweb1986
12:44 PM

@TRT-X: I would be more inclined to want on-line for NSMBWii if the Wii had a more convenient means of voice chat.

Wii Speak is convenient. Completely underutilized, overpriced, and late to the game, sure, but I've never had problems with it in the few times I've used it. #newsupermariobroswii
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Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.
12:48 PM

@spiderweb1986: A pity that Nintendo's policy when it comes to using it or any of the add ons is "Use it if you want, otherwise, no big" #newsupermariobroswii
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spiderweb1986
01:30 PM

@spiderweb1986: Actually, after looking at the prices for 360 and PS3 headsets, I guess I can rescind "overpriced." $30 for one Wii Speak - the only one you'd ever need - doesn't seem too bad. #newsupermariobroswii
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crunks
12:28 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
I do appreciate that they didn't want to trickle out tiny, miniscule bits of info about the game. That's one of my pet peeves about PR these days. #newsupermariobroswii
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Leanid
01:04 PM

@crunks: You mean you don't enjoy announcements about announcements, and teaser trailers teasing a teaser trailer? #newsupermariobroswii
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ryoshi
12:15 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
I don't think I could possibly disagree more with Reggie's claim that he "can't fault" NSMBW for not incorporating online. The developers' argument that it should be enjoyed "with friends in the same room" can be emulated pretty well online, particularly with headsets (or WiiSpeak or whatever that gadget's called). I don't particularly WANT someone elbowing me when I'm playing Mario, so I don't quite understand that as a selling point.

The issue here is that it is 2009, the Internet is something that 99% of Wii owners have access to, and there's no reason at all for a multiplayer-oriented game to not utilize the tools modern technology has given us for online play. Even if the whole point was that the game is better enjoyed locally, that doesn't mean an online component couldn't have also been present.

It's hard, but I've thought about it a lot and finally came to the conclusion that I'll be passing this one by. I can hang out with my friends (who all live in different states several hundred miles from me in a few different directions) in any other modern game for any other modern system and have a good time together. Nintendo has clearly and irrevocably set us aside as not in their target audience, so I feel no lost love.

It's too bad, it really did look fantastic with four players. #newsupermariobroswii
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jeremycole
12:36 PM

@ryoshi: that's a shame. I played it all day yesterday and it's fantastic. You're missing out on the best 2D Mario title since Super Mario World. #newsupermariobroswii
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spiderweb1986 promoted this comment jeremycole was starred jeremycole was unstarred

mrryu
12:38 PM

@ryoshi: C'mon, I think that's strong language..."clearly and irrevocably?" Play it with friends and family in the same place and I think you'll see that Nintendo was right on this one. #newsupermariobroswii
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ryoshi
12:43 PM

@mrryu: I don't have friends and family in the same place, as I've stated above. I could drop $50 on something that I'll play maybe once when I go back for Christmas, but that seems silly.

I'm just wondering how exactly you think Nintendo was "right" on this one - would adding online play to this title made local play less fun somehow? Please explain your logic here. #newsupermariobroswii
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Ryguy226
12:43 PM

@ryoshi: I'm going to miss out on the 4 player thing as well, all my friends are scattered throughout the US now. This would have been great 10 years ago for me, but now that I've grown up and moved out on my own, it just can't happen any more unless there was online.

And I realized I used the term "grown up", yet here I am, still playing Mario. Oh well, always appealing no matter what age. #newsupermariobroswii
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ryoshi
12:44 PM

@jeremycole: I know, I know, it looks really great. But the developers have flat out said that they don't want to allow people to play in the way that I would like to play (that being with my friends over the internet, as not all of us can afford a plane ticket to play games together) so I'm going to pass. #newsupermariobroswii
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ryoshi
12:51 PM

@Ryguy226: Exactly. If this had happened a few years back when I was still in college, it would've been a dormroom hit. Unfortunately, it didn't. #newsupermariobroswii
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spiderweb1986
12:51 PM

@ryoshi: The developers' argument that it should be enjoyed "with friends in the same room" can be emulated pretty well online, particularly with headsets (or WiiSpeak or whatever that gadget's called).

No, it can't. Playing online is never the same as playing locally, and the experience can't be "emulated pretty well" by lag and disembodied voices. There isn't anything wrong with online multiplayer, but to say that it's as good as being in the same room with your friends is sort of ridiculous.

I disagree with the "clearly and irrevocably" statement as well, because everyone I know who considers themselves a "gamer" and has played the game has had a blast with it. That doesn't seem like they're ignoring us or they've "set us aside as a target audience" to me. #newsupermariobroswii
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Ryguy226
01:01 PM

@spiderweb1986: Well I see ryoshi's argument, the situation is that online is better than nothing at all. I personally am in a situation where a good majority of my friends where I live now are not the kind of people who like to go to each other's houses to play video games. They have their own lives, and they would rather play online to play video games and do something else when meeting up in person. I'm going to be enjoying the game as a single player game, but that's it, without online, that's all the game will be for me. I'll take a little lag and disembodied voices anyday over a lack of couch multiplayer. #newsupermariobroswii
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TRT-X
01:19 PM

@Ryguy226: That's weird. I've also "grow'd up" and I've got at least 4-5 people that would likely sit down and play this with me no problem if I did something as difficult as ask them. #newsupermariobroswii
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ryoshi
01:30 PM

@spiderweb1986: I should clarify - I don't mean "us" as in gamers, I meant "us" as in "people with lives that kind of preclude playing in the same room with friends".

And I don't know what kind of internet connection or games you're running with lag bad enough that it's significantly worse than playing locally - while the occasional hiccups are annoying, there have been several games that have done it right (including the Conduit, so we know it's possible on the Wii).

You yourself have said there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with online multiplayer, so the idea of a game focused around multiplayer that shuns the most popular method of playing with other people in 2009 is pretty much ludicrous. #newsupermariobroswii
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spiderweb1986
01:54 PM

@ryoshi:

And I don't know what kind of internet connection or games you're running with lag bad enough that it's significantly worse than playing locally - while the occasional hiccups are annoying, there have been several games that have done it right (including the Conduit, so we know it's possible on the Wii).

I'd love to know what kind of system you're running where you don't encounter lag or connection issues. This game in particular seems ill-suited for online play, because the host system would have to keep track of four players on the same screen at the same time, work out aspects like the moving screen, and send all of the data back and forth between the other systems. Given the difficulty level of the game and the amount of precision required, you'd only need a small amount of lag - a hiccup, if you will - to cause unnecessary deaths and frustration.

There's also the issue that this is a co-op game. Trying to coordinate that would require Wii Speak, which would just subtract further from the amount of bandwidth available for trying to keep everyone on the same page. That's assuming, of course, you even have the accessory.

Nintendo already learned from Brawl what happens if you provide an online mode that doesn't live up to expectations. If there was any chance of that for NSMBW - which I think there was - then why waste the resources and man-hours to implement something your fans are only going to complain about?

so the idea of a game focused around multiplayer that shuns the most popular method of playing with other people in 2009 is pretty much ludicrous.

No it's not. You've just got an unwarranted sense of entitlement.

Remember Firefight?

"With this game we wanted to make sure everyone knew this was built off the Halo 3 engine, which is why we left Halo 3 in the title of it," says Creamer. "That was basically one of the limitations we had, that we couldn’t just add matchmaking for Firefight because it was based upon the cooperative Campaign gameplay.

"It would’ve been a massive technical rewrite of code, and we didn’t think it would have been the right thing to invest in anyway because it’s meant to be a cooperative experience you have with friends."

Bungie used the exact same reasoning Nintendo did. At first, people lambasted them for it. Then, they got over it.

Until this generation, the word multiplayer never came with an expectation of "online" before it, and the only reason it does now is because gamers are spoiled. If it isn't technically possible or if it's going to deliver an experience that's lacking, I'd prefer they don't bother and use the resources to polish the game in other ways. #newsupermariobroswii
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David Wischmeier
02:02 PM

@ryoshi: here is an idea, how about make some local friends and then you wont have that problem.

I like you have many friends spread out all over. You know what though I have made new friends here and they play locally with me when I don't want online play.

After playing NSMB:Wii I can't understand why online was not allowed in. This game would not have been as much fun online. (not that it wouldn't have been fun online, just not as much) #newsupermariobroswii
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ryoshi promoted this comment David Wischmeier was starred David Wischmeier was unstarred

fuchikoma
02:17 PM

@Ryguy226: I'm in the same position. I may be able to organize a day here and there where I can get some friends over to play it, but generally if Nintendo doesn't either include online play or put the people on my couch for me, it's going to be a single player game. Not that I expected them to... but this way there will be a lot of people who don't get to play multiplayer. #newsupermariobroswii
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ryoshi
02:18 PM

@David Wischmeier: Here is another idea: don't assume I don't have local friends. I have a lot, they just don't happen to want to come over and play goddamned Mario for two hours. It's great that you have friends that do that, but don't act like it's a minor deal. #newsupermariobroswii
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ryoshi
02:28 PM

@spiderweb1986: Until this generation, not everybody and their dog had the Internet. In an age where I can frag strangers in a pretty decent FPS online from my fucking cell phone, standing in the middle of a parking lot in Wisconsin, there is no reason for a game not to support multiplayer over the 'net.

And I play a LOT of games that don't have a lag problem - I even mentioned the Conduit, another Wii title. Lag hiccups are extremely rare in most titles, and thus wouldn't account for a whole lot of dying. Yes, precision is necessary, but it's been demonstrated in other games and it works fine.

The reason that we demand online multiplayer isn't because we're spoiled, it's because this is a multiplayer-heavy game that gives a big middle-finger to the single most popular method of playing a game with other people. That is patently absurd. That is like saying "we have this great new device that speeds travel by two miles an hour, it just doesn't support cars". It's sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring how the vast majority of people go about their lives.

And hey, maybe people would buy the Wii Speak if there was a game online that supported it that wasn't, y'know, Animal Crossing or Brawl (with its aforementioned issues).

(PS: Voice signals don't eat a whole lot of bandwidth, believe it or not - I'm not trying to flame you or anything, although you keep clamoring that I have a sense of entitlement and some other such nonsense, I just figured I'd let you know. It has to do with the way our brains interpret voices and communication.).
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Edited by ryoshi at 11/16/09 2:28 PM ryoshi was starred ryoshi was unstarred

Taggart6: I don't always drink beer, but when I do...
12:13 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
Like I said before, US Train Link want's to drink beer and go watch some MMA.

Euro train Link is on the way to Aunt Nancey's cottage to meet her and cousin Reginald for scones and tea. #newsupermariobroswii
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ThirzaLepidus
12:19 PM

@Taggart6: I don't always drink beer, but when I do...: I love tea! Can I come too?

Oh wait, I live in the US. :( #newsupermariobroswii
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Taggart6: I don't always drink beer, but when I do... promoted this comment ThirzaLepidus was starred ThirzaLepidus was unstarred

Taggart6: I don't always drink beer, but when I do...
12:23 PM

@ThirzaLepidus: No tea and scones until you finish your case of Samuel Adams and Big Macs. :(
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Edited by Taggart6: I don't always drink beer, but when I do... at 11/16/09 12:24 PM

ThirzaLepidus
12:30 PM

@Taggart6: I don't always drink beer, but when I do...:
The fact that I don't drink alc or eat fast food means that I'll never get tea and scones?

I think I need to book a flight out of this country ASAP. #newsupermariobroswii
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Taggart6: I don't always drink beer, but when I do...
12:43 PM

@ThirzaLepidus: Thats fine. More Heart Disease and Diabetes for the rest of us! #newsupermariobroswii
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ThirzaLepidus
12:51 PM

@Taggart6: I don't always drink beer, but when I do...: Well, I was born with Heart Disease, and Diabetes runs in the family, so I figured it was best to share!

Speaking of which, I should head over to that health care article... #newsupermariobroswii
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Taggart6: I don't always drink beer, but when I do...
12:11 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
Honestly, with how limited Nintendo's online system is I'm kinda glad online play wasn't included.

Don't get me wrong, I think online play would have been fantastic, but only if it was on something as easy to use like Xbox Live.

However, i'm tired of dealing with friend codes, a better voice chat offering, and lack of drop in and drop out support.

That said, I think supporting Mp for such a lacking network would have taken away from the core game itself.

I know some people will disagree with me (which is great since I want to hear other opinions) but I think most people can agree that the Nintendo online system needs work. #newsupermariobroswii
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hot_heart
12:09 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
Zelda has secrets? I did have a feeling about her that I just couldn't sheik... #newsupermariobroswii
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ThirzaLepidus
12:17 PM

@hot_heart: We'll definitely need hard evidence before we can conclusively link her to anything though. #newsupermariobroswii
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hot_heart promoted this comment ThirzaLepidus was starred ThirzaLepidus was unstarred

Mit
12:05 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
Was hoping this was referring to the new Wii Zelda, although I am no less excited about Spirit Tracks (although, I'm not following all the new info for it, but with how superb Phantom Hourglass was, I know it'll be great).

Maybe we'll actually have our hands on the next console Zelda within a year of it being officially revealed to us (I'm not counting that single piece of artwork for the game as a reveal).

I'm hoping for a reveal at E3 2010, and a release by summer 2011 (they said the game probably wouldn't make it in 2010). It would be a pleasant change from the constantly slowing hype train Twilight Princess had (due to how long it took to release).
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Edited by Mit at 11/16/09 12:06 PM Mit was starred Mit was unstarred

DigitalHero
12:02 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
That is the biggest drawback from the title. I picked up a brand new Wii System and New Super Mario Bros. and I'm underwhelmed at the support of online and online in general on the Wii. I have to spend time connecting everytime I just enter the Wii Shop. Nintendo clearly dropped the ball here.

With that said, New Super Mario Bros Wii is a great title and it brings back memories of 5th grade playing Super Mario Bros 3. As a new Wii owner, I eargerly await this new Zelda and some of XSEED's titles. #newsupermariobroswii
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Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.
12:20 PM

@DigitalHero: PSN and Xbox Live cost millions on millions of dollars to build and keep running. Online has been a issue with Nintendo for a while because unlike Sony or Microsoft, they don't have two parent megacorps who can fund ventures like that. I believe Xbox Live when it was first made cost Microsoft around 30 to 40 million dollars and that's to say nothing of the costs over time. And Microsoft is no slouch when it comes to building servers and such.

It's completely viable that before now, given how Nintendo carefully wades into the waters on anything, they did not have or were unwilling to spend the millions on millions of dollars to build a network to match PSN or Xbox Live. #newsupermariobroswii
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WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System
12:01 PM

In reply to Nintendo Talks Mario Multiplayer And Keeping Zelda's Secrets
BS. Just a month ago they claimed there was no online because the game was "pushing hte limits" of what the Wii can do. There's no retconning that statement, reggie. It's going to be laughed at for generations to come. #newsupermariobroswii
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BassForever
12:05 PM

@WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System: That was Myamoto not Reggie who said that. #newsupermariobroswii
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WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System
12:11 PM

@BassForever: Nobody corrected him.

Despite my belief that Miyamoto is going senile and nintendo needs to just put him in a closet with some toys, he still said it, and nobody corrected him. Not even reggie~ #newsupermariobroswii
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Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.
12:15 PM

@WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System: He was misquoted. And you don't talk down to the man who by all rights could be running Nintendo if he hadn't told the old dragon he would rather stay where he is.

Does Kaz need to be put in a closet over some of the stuff he's said? Or Sir Howard? Or Peter Moore? #newsupermariobroswii
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PorkPie
12:15 PM

@WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System: Yay! It's fun to hate the Wii! #newsupermariobroswii
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Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians. promoted this comment PorkPie was starred PorkPie was unstarred

Mact
12:16 PM

@WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System: Was Reggie there?

Also, keep in mind that Reggie is little more than a talking head. #newsupermariobroswii
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Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians. promoted this comment Mact was starred Mact was unstarred

WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System
12:18 PM

@Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.: Then what did he really say? I seem to remember a week of gaming sites reporting that Miyamoto is an insane old man who has no idea what he's talking about.

And yeah, I will talk down to him all I please. The man is losing it, although I can't remember the two other examples I had of why. #newsupermariobroswii
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Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.
12:23 PM

@WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System: Yeah he's losing it. People getting older, more jaded and bitter have nothing to do with it. Yup. #newsupermariobroswii
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WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System
12:25 PM

@Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.: See here is the thing

1. I asked what he actually said. COnsidering he was supposedly misquoted I thought this would be an easy thing to answer.
2. You don't even know why I say he's losing it, but you attribute it to "You're getting older and bitter!"? Yeah. Alternatively, Miyamoto keeps making ridiculous statements that show he has no idea what he's doing anymore. And I just remembered one: Wii Music. #newsupermariobroswii
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Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.
12:33 PM

@WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System: You mean the Wii Music that is headed towards 3 million units sold? The software that while hasn't sold as well as Fit or Sports, is making money hand over fist and is pretty darn fun, it's only fatal flaw being lack of DLC? That Wii Music? #newsupermariobroswii
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WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System
12:38 PM

@Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.: So is there any reason you're ignoring my question? What did he actually say?

And no, I mean the Wii music that was widely panned, a terrible excuse for a game, and only made because nobody at nintendo wanted to hurt miyamoto's feelings by telling him that wiggling your arms to a bunch of public domain music is a stupid-ass idea. #newsupermariobroswii
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Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.
12:44 PM

@WhiteMage Says Fix the Promotion System: I'll have to dig though the GoNintendo Podcasts to find where RawMeat addressed this. It's not the first time, Suda 51 was misquoted too.

And your bias is showing a tad bit. Or do you develop games? And 63 out of 100 isn't a panning. It's above mid-range. #newsupermariobroswii
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Torusan
06:27 AM

In reply to DSi Now Comes With Pre-Installed Software
Every year Nintendo has an exclusive Black Friday color or two. There's a good chance that that blue DSi won't be available in the future (unless you import, of course). #nintendo
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n00b_pwner
06:22 AM

In reply to DSi Now Comes With Pre-Installed Software
Mario Clock? How the hell is a clock a game? #nintendo
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MrMcdoobie: I don't do drugs
06:37 AM

@n00b_pwner: pull a random time out of a hat. wait until that time comes up. win. #nintendo
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buddhathing
06:00 AM

In reply to DSi Now Comes With Pre-Installed Software
Clubhouse Games is the shit. Simple concept, it's basically a bunch of card games, board games (checkers, chess, battleship,), stylus versions of bowling, darts, etc. and some other cool, intuitive mini-games, all of which are great for multiplayer. The kicker is the in-game pictochat, which you can use for massive shit-talking. It's great if you have multiple DS's and perhaps kids, and can easily get you through a long car trip. #nintendo
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☆Giroro G66☆
10:05 AM

@buddhathing: I was most the way through your post before I realized you actually liked clubhouse games. I misread "clubhouse games is the shit" as "clubhouse games is shit"

Don't use 'the shit' as a way of complimenting something, especially in text. #nintendo
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buddhathing
11:30 AM

@☆Giroro G66☆: Clubhouse Games is the poo. Take a whiff. #nintendo
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Sean Thomas
02:19 AM

In reply to Rumor: New DS Is Better Than The Zune
i dont think anyone is really going to want to carry around a portable game system by the time this comes out. the games that you can buy on many smartphone platforms are good enough for me anyway. #ds
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Karlott
02:31 AM

@Sean Thomas: I think continued sales of the DS sort of disprove your theory here. #ds
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