Kotaku 
Enter your username and password.
Denver, 1:11 AM
Tue Nov 17
52 posts in the last 24 hours
Tip us: tips@kotaku.com
Editor-In-Chief:
Brian Crecente
Email | AIM | Twitter
Deputy Editor:
Stephen Totilo
Email | AIM | Twitter
Senior Editor:
Michael McWhertor
Email | AIM | Twitter
Senior Contributing Editor, Japan:
Brian Ashcraft
Email | AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, East Coast:
Michael Fahey
Email | AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, Oceania:
Luke Plunkett
Email | AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, Weekends:
Owen Good
Email | AIM | Twitter
Correspondent, San Francisco:
AJ Glasser
Email | AIM | Twitter
Columnist:
Leigh Alexander
Columnist:
Tim Rogers
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
11/16/09
11/16/09
Nintendo's the single most profitable company in the entire video game industry, making a "budget" issue nonexistent. There was practically no possibility of making a 3D game with the SNES's hardware, yet they made it happen with an additional FX chip in Starfox. These were the people who pioneered 3D platforming and overcame the enormous techincal limitation of dealing with a 3D camera, yet they made it happen in Mario 64. This was the company found obstacle after obstacle after obstacle in Ocarina of Time, particularly with the battle system, yet they made it happen. This was the company that made an enormous and seamless word in Windwaker, and the company that standardized the analog stick for movement in 3D (which is STILL the most effective and widely-used movement mechanism by far).
So do NOT tell me they can't add online to a simple 2D platformer. I know what they're capable of, and they've overcome much more difficult and tasking technological obstacles. This is a mere bump on the road that Nintendo's now too lazy to bother with, and everyone here is pretending like they're a participant in first grade basketball and don't know their way around a simple interface. Make no mistake, people, they were once top-tier players of the NBA. Were. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
It's difficult to fault gamers who wanted an online experience with NSMB-Wii. Nintendo made a judgment call about resources - think of all the development hours that would have been wasted polishing the online mechanic (which we all know is less than robust on the Wii). These hours were put into the game itself and it freaking shows.
I approach "online multiplayer" modes with trepidation. Obviously this puts me in the minority here, but its exclusion from non-traditional genres always leaves me a little relieved. If anything, I was more disappointed that Nintendo didn't include a four-player same-room competitive multiplayer for Super Mario Kart Wii. That was an absurd design choice, following the same "reasoning" that left online multiplayer out of NSMB. So I respect the nerd rage over this, even if I don't share it.
Spirit Tracks box art:
"Does it show that Americans want a tougher, more aggressive Link? 'Not at all,' he replied."
Semantics. American audiences may be able to live without a "tougher, more aggressive" Link in the games, but they want him to look tougher and more aggressive on the box art. Europeans, on the other hand, apparently enjoy a colorful train ride through the countryside with a princess. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
As far as leaving online off of this game, I am with you in being relieved. True, it can use online, but for Wii, with it's online Wi-Fi thing, I prefer games to not include it most of the time. Now when it's predecessor comes out, my mind may change when it comes to online on it, but for now, I like it better if they refine single player. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
Personally, I love Reggie. He can kick my ass and take my name any day. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
As it stands now, I wouldn't want to play a game such as this without being able to communicate with those I was playing with.
11/16/09
Wii Speak is convenient. Completely underutilized, overpriced, and late to the game, sure, but I've never had problems with it in the few times I've used it. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
I think other companies spend so much money on marketing "teasers" for their games that don't come out for another year, and in retrospect, that usually hurts them because of possible game delays or changes.
I trust Nintendo, because they always give me exactly what they say they are giving. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
The issue here is that it is 2009, the Internet is something that 99% of Wii owners have access to, and there's no reason at all for a multiplayer-oriented game to not utilize the tools modern technology has given us for online play. Even if the whole point was that the game is better enjoyed locally, that doesn't mean an online component couldn't have also been present.
It's hard, but I've thought about it a lot and finally came to the conclusion that I'll be passing this one by. I can hang out with my friends (who all live in different states several hundred miles from me in a few different directions) in any other modern game for any other modern system and have a good time together. Nintendo has clearly and irrevocably set us aside as not in their target audience, so I feel no lost love.
It's too bad, it really did look fantastic with four players. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
I'm just wondering how exactly you think Nintendo was "right" on this one - would adding online play to this title made local play less fun somehow? Please explain your logic here. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
And I realized I used the term "grown up", yet here I am, still playing Mario. Oh well, always appealing no matter what age. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
No, it can't. Playing online is never the same as playing locally, and the experience can't be "emulated pretty well" by lag and disembodied voices. There isn't anything wrong with online multiplayer, but to say that it's as good as being in the same room with your friends is sort of ridiculous.
I disagree with the "clearly and irrevocably" statement as well, because everyone I know who considers themselves a "gamer" and has played the game has had a blast with it. That doesn't seem like they're ignoring us or they've "set us aside as a target audience" to me. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
And I don't know what kind of internet connection or games you're running with lag bad enough that it's significantly worse than playing locally - while the occasional hiccups are annoying, there have been several games that have done it right (including the Conduit, so we know it's possible on the Wii).
You yourself have said there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with online multiplayer, so the idea of a game focused around multiplayer that shuns the most popular method of playing with other people in 2009 is pretty much ludicrous. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
And I don't know what kind of internet connection or games you're running with lag bad enough that it's significantly worse than playing locally - while the occasional hiccups are annoying, there have been several games that have done it right (including the Conduit, so we know it's possible on the Wii).
I'd love to know what kind of system you're running where you don't encounter lag or connection issues. This game in particular seems ill-suited for online play, because the host system would have to keep track of four players on the same screen at the same time, work out aspects like the moving screen, and send all of the data back and forth between the other systems. Given the difficulty level of the game and the amount of precision required, you'd only need a small amount of lag - a hiccup, if you will - to cause unnecessary deaths and frustration.
There's also the issue that this is a co-op game. Trying to coordinate that would require Wii Speak, which would just subtract further from the amount of bandwidth available for trying to keep everyone on the same page. That's assuming, of course, you even have the accessory.
Nintendo already learned from Brawl what happens if you provide an online mode that doesn't live up to expectations. If there was any chance of that for NSMBW - which I think there was - then why waste the resources and man-hours to implement something your fans are only going to complain about?
so the idea of a game focused around multiplayer that shuns the most popular method of playing with other people in 2009 is pretty much ludicrous.
No it's not. You've just got an unwarranted sense of entitlement.
Remember Firefight?
"With this game we wanted to make sure everyone knew this was built off the Halo 3 engine, which is why we left Halo 3 in the title of it," says Creamer. "That was basically one of the limitations we had, that we couldn’t just add matchmaking for Firefight because it was based upon the cooperative Campaign gameplay.
"It would’ve been a massive technical rewrite of code, and we didn’t think it would have been the right thing to invest in anyway because it’s meant to be a cooperative experience you have with friends."
Bungie used the exact same reasoning Nintendo did. At first, people lambasted them for it. Then, they got over it.
Until this generation, the word multiplayer never came with an expectation of "online" before it, and the only reason it does now is because gamers are spoiled. If it isn't technically possible or if it's going to deliver an experience that's lacking, I'd prefer they don't bother and use the resources to polish the game in other ways. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
I like you have many friends spread out all over. You know what though I have made new friends here and they play locally with me when I don't want online play.
After playing NSMB:Wii I can't understand why online was not allowed in. This game would not have been as much fun online. (not that it wouldn't have been fun online, just not as much) #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
FPS games are designed around a bit of lag. They have been since Quakeworld. The weapons, the way they fire, the way the characters move, it's all taken into account.
Fighting games, for example, not so. It's why even the best online fighting game suffers. A platform game like Mario, built around precise control, tightly tuned physics, and quick reflexes, could very well be the same way.
11/16/09
11/16/09
And I play a LOT of games that don't have a lag problem - I even mentioned the Conduit, another Wii title. Lag hiccups are extremely rare in most titles, and thus wouldn't account for a whole lot of dying. Yes, precision is necessary, but it's been demonstrated in other games and it works fine.
The reason that we demand online multiplayer isn't because we're spoiled, it's because this is a multiplayer-heavy game that gives a big middle-finger to the single most popular method of playing a game with other people. That is patently absurd. That is like saying "we have this great new device that speeds travel by two miles an hour, it just doesn't support cars". It's sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring how the vast majority of people go about their lives.
And hey, maybe people would buy the Wii Speak if there was a game online that supported it that wasn't, y'know, Animal Crossing or Brawl (with its aforementioned issues).
(PS: Voice signals don't eat a whole lot of bandwidth, believe it or not - I'm not trying to flame you or anything, although you keep clamoring that I have a sense of entitlement and some other such nonsense, I just figured I'd let you know. It has to do with the way our brains interpret voices and communication.).
11/16/09
11/16/09
And hey, at least those fighters have online play. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
Finding people who will play smash brother and mario kart was a bit challenging but if i seeked out people for me wasn't that hard. craiglist, facebook, college clubs (as im in a college town) ect. I was able to find a few. just a matter of setting up a game night the same way i would a poker night and I have people ready to play.
Same goes if i want to throw down some FPS for some LAN games i have a group of friend who are down. Online play is the same only difference is there is a little less organization to it. just call your friends tell them to get online. I get why online is a good idea but it still seems less personal and for me just not as fun as having friends over, drinking beers, and roughing around when you friend tosses your ass into a pit on purpose. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
And - as a side note - there are people out there who actually hate Mario?! None of my friends are actually in that boat at all - sorry to hear that. I'm actually a pretty huge fan of the 2D Mario games (at one point I could beat 1-1 with my eyes closed, just using the music as cues...that was a long time ago, though) which makes it even more lame that this doesn't support online.
But again - we're agreeing. You say you get why online is a good idea. I am just flabbergasted at some of the people in this comment thread who are disputing that. How is an extra feature ever a bad idea? #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
I have actually found some really cool people through game clubs. found some pretty crazy ones though as well.
I think the real question here though is do you want them to try online play and have it come out like Smash brother did. I was extremely disappointed with online Overall with that game. Mario Kart was better but there were tons of short comings.
the Only way i would take online play on Mario Brothers is if the game is exactly how it is now + good online with online chat. I'm not sure that would have happened. but we really wont know because they never tried. I would have been very interested in seeing if it worked.
My fear is if it had gone online they would have taken the local multiplayer out and forced everyone to use only online multiplayer. (Which makes me very angry when companies do that) For one reason or another companies don't include both hardly anymore. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
Euro train Link is on the way to Aunt Nancey's cottage to meet her and cousin Reginald for scones and tea. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
Oh wait, I live in the US. :( #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
The fact that I don't drink alc or eat fast food means that I'll never get tea and scones?
I think I need to book a flight out of this country ASAP. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
Speaking of which, I should head over to that health care article... #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
Don't get me wrong, I think online play would have been fantastic, but only if it was on something as easy to use like Xbox Live.
However, i'm tired of dealing with friend codes, a better voice chat offering, and lack of drop in and drop out support.
That said, I think supporting Mp for such a lacking network would have taken away from the core game itself.
I know some people will disagree with me (which is great since I want to hear other opinions) but I think most people can agree that the Nintendo online system needs work. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
However, I have played SSBB on the Wii and that was just atrocious so I agree that Wii's online could use a revamp. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
honestly, I might just have a laptop with me, and use it run ventrilo with some buddies as we play MH3. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
Maybe we'll actually have our hands on the next console Zelda within a year of it being officially revealed to us (I'm not counting that single piece of artwork for the game as a reveal).
I'm hoping for a reveal at E3 2010, and a release by summer 2011 (they said the game probably wouldn't make it in 2010). It would be a pleasant change from the constantly slowing hype train Twilight Princess had (due to how long it took to release).
11/16/09
With that said, New Super Mario Bros Wii is a great title and it brings back memories of 5th grade playing Super Mario Bros 3. As a new Wii owner, I eargerly await this new Zelda and some of XSEED's titles. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
It's completely viable that before now, given how Nintendo carefully wades into the waters on anything, they did not have or were unwilling to spend the millions on millions of dollars to build a network to match PSN or Xbox Live. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
Despite my belief that Miyamoto is going senile and nintendo needs to just put him in a closet with some toys, he still said it, and nobody corrected him. Not even reggie~ #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
Does Kaz need to be put in a closet over some of the stuff he's said? Or Sir Howard? Or Peter Moore? #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
Also, keep in mind that Reggie is little more than a talking head. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
And yeah, I will talk down to him all I please. The man is losing it, although I can't remember the two other examples I had of why. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
1. I asked what he actually said. COnsidering he was supposedly misquoted I thought this would be an easy thing to answer.
2. You don't even know why I say he's losing it, but you attribute it to "You're getting older and bitter!"? Yeah. Alternatively, Miyamoto keeps making ridiculous statements that show he has no idea what he's doing anymore. And I just remembered one: Wii Music. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
11/16/09
And no, I mean the Wii music that was widely panned, a terrible excuse for a game, and only made because nobody at nintendo wanted to hurt miyamoto's feelings by telling him that wiggling your arms to a bunch of public domain music is a stupid-ass idea. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09
And your bias is showing a tad bit. Or do you develop games? And 63 out of 100 isn't a panning. It's above mid-range. #newsupermariobroswii
11/16/09